discussion comment
17 years ago
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motorheadFat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
A long time ago I came to the conclusion that I am different from many guys that go to strip clubs (and probably more like the guys who post here). Many guys won't get cleaned up, or drive 2 hours, or spend more than $100, or develop an affection for a particular girl (ATF), or anything like that. I think there are all types of guys in strip clubs. Here are some common types I have observed:
1) Regular Joe Cheaters - as a previous post said, just stopping buy for a quick beer and a quick feel. Probably prefers the company of a group of men to the company of a solitary woman.
2) Scared Squares - got talked into this, can't say no, afraid the girls will drag him down into a life of hopeless sin, or wife will smell his clothes. Have a million excuses for not getting a dance; still, the naked girls are intriguing.
3) Sharks and Scum balls - Smooth and contemptuous at the same time, looking to manipulate a woman for advantage, playing games and getting played.
4) Lonely Hearts - looking for love in all the wrong places, typically nice guys with a unmet intimacy need; either a learner who figures it out, or a pathetic loser.
5) Pervs and Defectives - all shapes and sizes, from slightly neurotic to borderline psychotic, unpredictable, sometimes dangerous, and sometimes entertaining.
Crud, is there any room for a regular guy in a strip club? Or by definition, are you not regular if you go there? What percent of guys go to strip clubs more than a couple times a year?
discussion comment
17 years ago
thread, schmead...here's my post.
I get a kick out of the reviews for bad clubs and would love to see the list again. One of my all time worst was on the list. I gave it a 2, becasue I'm allowing for something worse. The Blue Moon in Phoenix. Read the reviews. Bad location. Absolutely dreadful decor. Overpriced dances. Run by some old farts who could probably squeeze blood from a stone. Not really a rip-off joint; just a dismal place devoid of human quality.
discussion comment
17 years ago
As for declining beauty in clubs, I'm not so sure. My problem is I started by going to the top clubs, and then I discovered the wonders of bottom feeding. At my regular club in Phoenix, the standards seem intact. Other places, any preconceived notions of beauty are challenged mightily.
On the other hand, America has undeniably gotten fatter, so I can't see clubs isolated from that trend.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Well, what started as a nice therapy thread, turned into a commentary on declining beauty. No problem, I have opinions on both.
I started going to clubs 20 or so years ago, only a few times year when I traveled. Then, about 10 years ago, my marriage started on a slow trajectory downward. My father in-law got chronically ill and steadily declined, he died, and then my wife's sister died after a one-year battle with cancer. My wife withdrew and 5 years of cajoling could not get her out of her funk. I was lonely and craving female companionship. My clubbing went way up, but I also started looking for more socializing and at least the vestiges of relationships with dancers. I became a staunch regular at a small club, and for several years just hung out there. I met a few girls, went OTC a bit, and learned a lot about the human condition. I reawakened my interest in music, and in helping other people (something I think I might do in retirement).
All that, combined with way more business travel (my peak year, on the road 120 days), sunk my marriage, and my divorce is imminent. In the meantime, I met a girl, settled in with her and I'm definitely not lonely. I still go to clubs, sometimes with her. But I think now it's just for the cheap sexual thrills, which is about where I started 20 years ago.
The more things change...
discussion comment
17 years ago
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motorheadFat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
I usually avoid high maintenance people in all walks of life. I like 2-way relationships, and to me high maintenance implies a certain self-centeredness.
I got involved with one stripper, agirl from Jamaica who was quite beautiful, and a lively conversationalist. We went out to dinner a few times and I spent some good money on dances from her in the club. Then she started dropping hints about jewelry, and I chose to ignore the hints. A week later she started shunning me in the club. Guess I was short on my dues!
This begs the question: if you take a girl OTC just for dinner (often, just as a 1 or 2 hour break from the club), do you owe her anything other than paying for her meal? I always thought not (and we're not talking Applebee's here!).
discussion comment
17 years ago
I think the eye contact thing is complex. I like to do it, because female bodies are nice enough, but female minds are often intriguing (for good or bad). What I am realizing is the cultural differences that give different meaning to prolonged eye contact. A few months ago, I was happily looking at a latin american girl in the face, and she said "why are you looking at me, is there something wrong?" Then there was the German girl who delivered a nice string of sexual comments while staring into my eyes (and providing a good lap dance). When I matched her stare, her dancing went up a notch. But then, I'm 2/3 German. Hey, anybody know about those sex clubs in Germany? ;-)
discussion comment
17 years ago
There is something ultimately satisfying about a good BBBJ. It seems to me to be a wonderful gesture of sacrifice and service by the girl, maybe even more so than straight sex. Nothing extra is needed.
discussion comment
17 years ago
As near as I can tell, the shots are basically colored water with a single molecule of ethanol in each shot. The only thrill I get from these shots, and it is a cheap thrill indeed, is when the shot girl and my dancer do some sort of simulated testtube-shot=penis blowjob thing (you know, both girls have their mouth on it, oh it tastes so good, etc).
I feel sorry for the shot girls; they have been suckered into a lousy position. But not that sorry. Say NO THANKS!
discussion comment
17 years ago
We should start a thread entitled, Where do strippers go when they retire?, because I think that is the bigger transition each of them must face.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I met my ATF's grandmother, who raised her from the age of 5. At the time we met, my ATF was in the process of becoming my live-in girlfriend. I am twice my girlfriend's age. Grandma was polite and nothing more. Now, almost 3 years later, Grandma is still skeptical of the whole arrangement. Fortunately, Grandma is not one of those confidantes to my girlfriend, but rather was the ogre who abused her and made her miserable. So we're fine with the distant relationship, and it probably will never get better, because some people just can't comprehend a healthy relationship between a man and a woman separated by 28 years. Sometimes I wonder about it, but not much!
discussion comment
17 years ago
I once saw the "walk and sway" style of dancing referred to as "shoe modeling".
I will agree, the skill on stage does not translate into skill in VIP.
But I do like the eye contact; windows to the soul and all that. When I tip at the stage, I look her in the face. There are some adolescence-arrested dudes whose eyes stayed glued to the kitty. It's not that interesting fella!
discussion comment
17 years ago
So maybe the guy involved in the buzzing was Gary Shandling. Obtuse movie reference. First one to name it gets a Hitachi Magic Wand, the Cadillac of vibrators...0 to Orgasm in 60 seconds.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Phoenix area, a bit less crowded in the clubs, and this is affecting the marginal quality clubs more (no surprise there). But I also think club attendance is lke New England weather, jut wait 10 minutes and it will change. We are going into "high season" here in Phoenix now. All those guys playing golf and watching Cactus League baseball need something to do in the late afternoons, before they skedaddle back to the hotel or condo and shower before dinner.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I'm with FONDL on this one. The club population is probably no different from the general population.
Looks can be deceiving. I remember a tall, thin German girl that danced at my favorite club in Phoenix. When I first met her, she seemed excessively giggly and ditzy. Because she was very tall, I asked her how tall she was, and she said "Five foot, twelve!" Ok, that was clever. Two dances and many fun comments later I learned she was a PhD candidate in biochemistry. Brains and beauty!
discussion comment
17 years ago
I'm a briefs guy usually, but occasionally wear boxers, for the free and unfettered feeling, although it's a bit hard to maintain my balance when I walk around a corner.
Once wore boxers with shorts for a golf game and went to visit my favorite club afterward. My ATF at the time was giving me a dance when she kneeled facing me and ran her hand up my shorts, thinking she would hit cotton before she hit Mr Happy. Hello!
discussion comment
17 years ago
Yeah, the definition of slavery should be reserved for egregious physical and mental coercion, confinement, usurpation of wages, etc.
With that definition in mind, I can't say I have ever met a sex industry slave.
However, there is a club in CT that is largely populated by Dominican girls; they speak little English, and I have wondered if they are shipped back and forth from the Dominican Republic, and whether there is someone profiting from that (other then the usual take by the club owner). Can't say they look unhappy or underfed or physically abused. But we aften don't know about the bad things going on around us, so I still wonder.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hey, you two, stop having such an intelligent conversation. You're making the rest of us schmucks look bad, what with our perversions and semi-literate rants.
As for the argument about "when it started to go bad", I believe it was Aristotle (or one of those dead guys) who heavily criticized the newer generation. I was born in 1954 and should be a product of the permissive 60's, but my parents were raised in the Great Depression, so I learned about a good work ethic and not complaining (too much). They say adversity builds character. I don't think we Americans have seen too much adversity lately. Although I would not wish upon us another depression.
BTW, FONDLY, I love your ATF's positive attitude philosophy. We like to blame our brain chemistry for our foul moods, but the brain has been shown to be a 2-way street. We can create our own moods (change our brain chemistry and wiring over the long term) by simply thinking good or bad. This is not "new age" thinking..this is direct from the neuro-scientific community. Now, repeat after me, "I am a highly disireable stud...strippers want to give me dances for free..."
discussion comment
17 years ago
I don't know if jealousy is the right word. It seems to me like simple competitive rivalry. Unless DougS is a particularly handsome fellow.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I live in Phoenix, and the same factors are affecting us here. Two words...bad mortgages. The mortgage debacle has affected the economy at large, especially in these fast growth cities like Las Vegas and Phoenix. Builders are most affected, but it trickles to everyone else. I just read an internal Phoenix CIty government memo that projects a 15 to 20 percent decline in the general fund revenue - due to decreases in sales tax and builder fees. Does anyone remember the Savings and Loan meltdowns and bailouts some years ago? The financial community sure does know how to screw us over every 10 or 20 years.
discussion comment
17 years ago
This is an interesting discussion. Some of us are having a hard time imagining the OTC situation that woul dbe any better than what we get in the club, but I suspect some other guys would love it. If you read the reviews here, a commom complaint is the lack of privacy for lap dances. Some guys seem to crave that privacy (I, on the other hand, seem to like the orgy type of atmosphere).
Anybody else remember the movie Klute? Jane Fonda plays an escort. At one point, she visits an old guy in a textile loft, and simply undresses for him. It is an unsually erotic moment.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Book Guy is right about the risks to club owners. In Phoenix, the law makes a sex offense by management a cause for revoking the business license. Drug offenses too.
Most clubs in Phoenix have some female patrons. They come in several varieties:
1) strippers hanging out with their friends before or after their shift
2) wifes and girlfriends with their guys
3) lesbians
4) occasionally a group of girls partying
My girlfriend fits into category 2. She is not bisexual, but she says she likes how soft the girls feel when they give her dances. Who am I to argue?
However, I cannot recall ever running into an escort trolling for business in a strip club (other than a few of the dancers who were moonlighting).
As for asking an escort to leave...I think a manager can ask anyone to leave for practically any reason, except "you are black", or "you are handicapped".
discussion comment
17 years ago
Here's an example of how the posted rules may have no bearing on your actual experience. I once went to a little club in upstate NY. All nude. Dances were $25 each in little cubicles. On the club's walls were numerous signs warning that absolutely no sex was offered or conducted on the premises. Went with a girl back to the dance booths, rounded the corner and almost slipped on a used condom on the floor. S he says, "Eooooh, gross!", then hustles me into a booth, closes the door, straddles me and promptly unzips Mr. Happy. I'm so glad a HJ is not sex! (Thank you, Bill Clinton)
discussion comment
17 years ago
FONDL, you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Our brains have an amazing ability to revise history. Oddly, the more dramatic negative memories are the easiest to recast.
My take on human loss is that it will happen, and there is no way to soften it without reducing our selves. So always treat her right, and while you may be sad, you will not be full of shame and regret.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Has happened to me just once. And my reaction afterwards was, What the fuck, I just spent good money to jack off. What a moron I have become. Never again. The money is for service with a smile.