How to get over them....

Dancers are sometimes like wives and girlfriends. You either get tired of them or they get tired of you, then it's time to move on and get a fresh start. The only problem with x-wives, we usually have children to follow-up on, and that's the sad part.

But ATFs are not wives or girlfriends. At least THEY don't see the relationship that way. (For them, it's just cash.) So this is a different kind of "breakup." Since the relationship was not real, the breakup is just a change of dancers. Best way is to avoid the ATF's club for at least six months. This will open opportunities for a new ATF--the cure for whatever hurt feelings there may be.

Don't let it develop that far in the first place. Fuck 'em two or three times then onto the next.

But I guess if you insist on having ATFs, then it's just like any other woman:

The only way to get over a woman you were or hung up on is to get hung up on a brand new one... Do not imagine this is a game you can win. The fun is only in the playing.

I view them more like pets than like wives or girl friends. When a pet dies or disappears, it hurts for a little while but then you get a new one. It's easy to say don't get that attached in the first place but that's part of the fun for some of us. I'm not sure anyone ever sets out to find a favorite, it just happens, you meet someone whose company you really enjoy and you want to see them again so you do. It's a pleasant diversion from your normal life.

Yes, I'm starting to believe that the way to have a happy life is ...

TO VIEW ALL OTHER HUMANS

... about like you view a beloved pet. No expectations, constant training and management, an "alpha male" attitude toward them. When they're bad, punish them and recognize that they respect you for that fact; when they're good, reward them, but only intermittently, so that they're desperately working for your approval all the time. And when they yelp or bark or piddle on the floor, just accept that this is "who they are" and don't expect them to understand Nietzsche or manage a well diversified stock portfolio.

Just think of dancers trying to compete to fill an opening as one of your favorites. Then it becomes all fun. You have multiple favorites but a limited budget to spend so someone will have to be left out. You can't get dances from everyone who wants to dance for you unless they either dance for free and/or you have a lot of time to stay in the strip club.

Then it all makes sense, favorites fighting each other or trying to get to you first. New girls trying to get your attention before your favorites find you. Then you go about the club just having fun seeing which favorite is going to strike first.

How to get over them? Think about how broke you would be if they were still here in addition to the current girls who are grinding away on you. Besides, I'm not always sure they are gone. Some dancers come back and get me when I'm least expecting it. If they do come back, they seem very sexually aggressive. Watch out, some might bite and not want to let go. :)

I heard once that an obsession for a young girl lasts as long as her perfume lasts on your clothes. Go get someone else's perfume in there!

When I start feeling sad about a lost ATF, I will just sit back and watch a random stripper hang all over a customer, showering them with attention and paid-for "love". She'll then give them a peck on the cheek when she's done with them, and quickly run off and literally throw herself onto the next victim a few tables away. Helps me keep things in perspective, and my sadness abates rather quickly when I view things in an objective way.

You don't get over them. It hurts a little whenever you look back and remember what you once had and never will have again. You can move on to a new girl, but she'll never erase your memory. That's life. It's bittersweet. That's why the time you do spend with her is so sweet. You never know when it will be over, but you know it will.

Chandler, you and I are definately on the same page on this one. As far as I'm concerned it's all about building memories. Except for memories, nothing lasts forever. I'm addicted to bittersweet, I suspect you are too.

Well, I guess I'm addicted to sweet, which turns bittersweet without any help from me.

The thing about bittersweet memories is that they get sweeter with age. You tend to forget the bitter part.

FONDL, you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Our brains have an amazing ability to revise history. Oddly, the more dramatic negative memories are the easiest to recast.

My take on human loss is that it will happen, and there is no way to soften it without reducing our selves. So always treat her right, and while you may be sad, you will not be full of shame and regret.

Cry not because it's over
rather, smile because it happened
for memories are the only things
we get to keep

Amen, FONDL. But things aren't always that simple.

She gets to keep the wet spot ...

Clubber, it is that simple. The secret of life is change - everything changes continuously. Change is life. To resist change is to resist life; to accept change is to accept life. Your choice.

I was in a club in my travels one time and found an absolutely fantastic dancer (according to my standards). I went to that club a few times while in town just to see her. She was ATF material in my book. She was exactly what I like in a woman (looks & personality).

I travelled back to that location a few months later and was excited to think I could see this dancer again. This time looking to probe into her a bit more (see if I could pull dow the SS shield). Anyway, I go into the club and ask a dancer if my fave is there. I am told that she is not dancing right now as she had knee surgery. I was crushed. It took a good 10 minutes to find another dancer....and she was exactly what I like in a woman. ;-)

Join the gym. Go shopping for new clothes. Get a new hair style. Oh wait, that's what chicks do after they dump the boyfriend-- sorry, my bad.

It IS very difficult to get over them. With my prev-ATF, we were together for 2+ years. There were two things that made getting over her easier. 1) we'd spent less and less time together, as things were declining, 2) I discovered Miss ATF (current).

Actually, that's the best advice. Go on a mission to find a replacement. The "interviewing" process can be quite a blast.

I'm sorry I'm kind of new to this language.... what is an ATF and other short terms you use normally here ?

thanks

Check the glossary for current definitions. ATF--All Time Favorite. Could be "likes a lot," a comfortable friend you get most of your dances from, someone you enjoy talking to, a "crush" almost like high school or any other feeling you, the customer, want to acknowledge that makes you look for her first when you enter the club. CAREFUL: Would she respond to or reciprocate your attention if you didn't have ready cash?

This is the time to break off with ATF's and move on. Christmas is over. Lay low until after Valentine's Day. AVoid getting played for extra money and gifts in a "relationship" founded on SS and greed.

..with ATFs...

The claim is often made that an ATF by definition means there can only be one. However that's always where the problems begins, and that's why 2 or more ATFs are far better. Even assuming your particular ATF is down to earth, minimizes SS, and has everything going for her - simply by being a woman odds are very high they are a drama junkies of some sort, and multiple ATFs (which they both know about) will help keep the drama high. When for example you didn't buy Dancer X a Christmas gift, odds are she might believe you bought Y a Christmas gift instead. When you are away from Y for 2 weeks, she's wondering if you are with A. I'm not sure if anyone really gets over a super AFT type, but I think the odds are better to having a good relationship when they see themselves always competing with another dancer

Same is true in real life. You commit yourself to one woman, then she knows she can get away with all sorts of bull and she feels you're too weak; but if you don't do what she wants, and instead you remain aloof and unavailable, she's desperate for your attention.

Just like banks used to be (before the credit bubble and lending standards were dropped) - they basically just wanted to lend money to those that really didn't need the money. Same with women, its absolutely amazing the difference when they realize you consider them (along with the rest of the attractive women on the planet), just a commodity of sorts.

Most young attractive women need the constant ongoing struggle and drama of trying to get the man to commit. Note women rarely understand their innate desires, as of course these desires clearly operate on a subconscious level and are in effect directed by primordial based legacy genetic baggage from earlier time frames in our 3 to 5 million year evolution.

I guess the real distinction between men and women is not that we want different things (although we do); it's that one group admits what we want and goes for it (with varying levels of success or failure), while the other group can't admit what they want and can't figure out how to go for it.

Following the sage advice on this thread, there are two main approaches to "getting over them." One, just walk away and find a new ATF (the preferred cure.) Two, create your own customer shit and have dancers fighting over you for regular dances, gifts and special attention. This is easy when some other dancers get gifts or special attention that the ATF thought she could take as given. Imagine the effect of a dancer in the same club, enjoying SS, bragging about a gift she got from someone else's RIL. Create jealously and let them earn your attention, affection or return to RIL status. This could be expense, a lot of work and, maybe, emotially abusive to the former ATF. But what does she care about your emotions. You are the one exercising your right to protect yourself by any means necessary.

Here's a different slant on this. I don't really have to 'get over' my ATF because everything is going well ...she gives me all I need and makes me feel special when I'm with her. Now I know that I'm really not special but she does her job very well. The problem is that it bothers me to see her take others into the VIP and I'm not sure why. I don't want to date her, I'm realistic about this relationship etc. I don't feel that way about the other girls in the club. BUT ...back on topic. I may have found the answer to how to get over an ATF and clubbing in general. Just read the PINK site. Holy shit ...a dose of reality in a fantasy world. I saw reference to the site here and read entries for the first time. They hate us! I also want to add that most of the discussion on this forum is very thoughtful and intelligent. I nod and go 'Yep, happened to me'.

The question is about getting over them after it has ended for whatever reason - she's quit stripping, moved away, disappeared, etc - not typically by your choice. One way or another, it will end someday.

Rootman:
Take it from a guy with some experience in this area... DUDE, the red flags are waving! I believe you are on the cusp of getting in deeper than you intended. I never have set out to form a relationship with a dancer, but it's hard to avoid. Once your mindset changes from getting dances from whomever looks hot at the moment, to repeating with the same girl over and over again "because she gives you all you need and makes you feel special", things in the club will never be the same. Let me tell you, it's not a mental choice that you make, either... it just happens.

It can be the most excellent thing while things are going well, but it can also send you into a downward spiral when things are not so great and soon you WILL need to "get over" her - sooner or later.

You are already showing signs that you've become attached to her with your jealous feelings. Join the club! There's a song by Nickelback called The Next Contestant - when you get a chance, take a listen. I've told both my ATF and a potential future ATF about how this song makes me think of them, and they both think it's "cute" that I feel that way. Here's a link to the lyric of the song (copy and paste the link into your browser) -> http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/nickelbac…

I hate the thought of my ATF dancing for others. Because of this, I've made it pretty clear to her; so much so that when I'm in the club, she will not go near other guys, except if she has to serve her time on stage. Even that is minimized by working out deals with the DJ to have her removed from the rotation. It's also one of the reasons that our time together is nearly exclusively OTC and has been since a year ago December.

With my ATF, I'm starting to see some signs that our relationship may be beginning that downward spiral, as most relationships eventually do. Fortunately for me, that potential future ATF is in the wings and scoring big points as she's climbing my charts. If it comes to pass, she will go a very long way in helping through a VERY difficult time.

I believe Rootman pretty much has it under control, and the PINK site certainly helps in that regards, even though pink site posts are to some degree from the radical end of the spectrum. Ieally multiple ATFs are the best answer, however they can be expensive to get establshed, so total awareness of how the business works is very very important for the average PL when he gets involved with an ATF type

Thanks for the responses. I think I have a plan now. I like the idea of controlling who she's with while I'm in the club. She's usually with me intially at the table fo some conversation, then the vip. But after the VIP, I want to hang in the club a bit and she's off to the next customer. So I may try to swing a reasonable compromise for both of us. Also, control in general seems to be a good tactic. I'll steer everything my way as a sort of 'accomplishment'. I have no issue seeing multiples and like it. The problem is that the ATF pretty much consumes too many dollars already but the return is worth it. It's hard to come up with even more cash for auditions. It takes multiple trips with a dancer to get everyone comfortable enough to be where you want to be. I really have it made for the moment but it may just be inevitable that some atf's cause you to develop some extra attachment based on the amount of time you spend together and some natural attraction that got you to that point.

For those of us able to get to a club during less busy times, we have a huge advantage with ATF types at least in upscale of semi-upscale clubs, because these clubs pretty much have constant levels of staffing during the day, basically always girls ready, if a large group were to enter the club en mass, so in early afternoons its a light time for many of them. Even then a PL might want to plan for 2 VIPs with hanging out in-between or 3 with the same thing, and try to keep her off stage via timing or luck

One ATF (to be) who I was giving alot of business to even when I first met her, and she also knew I would be buying lets say dance session 2 (as I'd tell her)in lets say 30 or 40 minutes or so later, and I would say "Im going to float around" - she actually wouldn't even solicit guys for dances (even when the club got busy) -she would sit in the corner with her dancer friends talking in her native language, sort of waiting, (a placeholder of sorts, as I would eventually learn), and it took me awhile to figure she actually wanted to hang out in-between, if anything primarily because it simply made good business sense long term.

Special thanks to DougS for solidifying strategy. I put it to the test last Friday, basically demanding exclusive attention while I'm in the club. I think I'm getting hooked on the alpha idea and it's fun to plan and execute. The only problem is I'm focused on the choreography of the whole thing so it might have diluted the pure fun aspect. I think i'm close to finishing up with this ATF though because it is dangerous when you get too close. I think I'll next build on the strategy by shopping girls, unless she offers OTC ...then I'm fucked (both heads!).

Rootman:
Interestingly, the last time that I was ITC, I had made it clear to my near-ATF (actually, she is getting very close to taking over the ownership of the ATF title) that I did NOT want to share her while I was in the club. It caused a minor problem. However minor it was, I can see where under different circumstance, things could get out of hand.

Here's what happened...
I'd pre-arranged to meet her at the club, and I'd seen her arrive and head directly to the dressing room. When she first came out onto the floor, she was called immediately to the stage. I approached her stage side, and we exchanged hugs and said our "HIs". I whispered into her ear, reminding her that I wanted her all to myself. I think she kind'a liked that. She's VERY popular at the club, and usually there is a long line of guys waiting for her, so I was almost surprised that she gave into the idea so easily.

Anyhow, I saw on the other side of the stage that another guy had pulled up a chair, obviously in order to get her attention. She left me and danced her way over to the other guy. They hugged and she whispered something into his ear, and I was sitting there a little pissed to be honest. She then came back over to me and whispered into MY ear that the other guy wanted to get some dances from her, but she told him that she was spoken for by me. I had to smile with that statement. I could see the other guy looking our way with a bit of a disgruntled look on his face. I just HAD to rub his nose in it by giving her a quick kiss on the lips, then looked back at him and smiled. His face turned red; I knew he was steaming.

The other guy stood up, and then he motioned for my dancer to come back over to him. She looked at him and shook her head "no". He threw his hands up in the air, in a show of disgust, walked over to the bar and threw his napkin at the bartender, saying something to him, but there was no way we could hear what it was, then he stormed out.

I can see where some guy might take it further and make a scene or maybe try to start a fight... or maybe even just wait for me in the parking lot.

Doug: I'm always amazed how people's stories are the same as what I see. I can really relate to how satisfying it must have been to piss that guy off. If we let that kind of shit go on, we're just doormats. Probably like you, I pay my ATF very well and expect to be number one for that. At this point, I figure we can't always control the feelings we develop but we can try to control behavior. This has been good therapy.

Doug, by any chance, is this monopolizing of a stripper accomplished by paying her a hefty sum? I fail to see what is so satisfying about the disappointment of another customer you outbid.

Chandler: No, there was no money involved in monopolization of said dancer. I merely told her on the phone that I didn't want to share her, to which her response was "sure, we can hang out" ... (and reminded her on stage). No mention of money was made.

My strategy (if you want to call it that) with my ATF was always the exact opposite. I delighted in seeing her milk other guys for money by dancing for them but spending the rest of her time with me, knowing that I'd be seeing her later OTC when her shift was over. I always enjoyed seeing her make as much as possible off of other guys, I figured it saved me a bundle.

I think some of this was misinterpreted. My story is ....I pay for a significant number of dances regularly and tip well. Let's say I can only spend an hour or so in the club that day. I don't expect to wait while others cut in. Regulars deserve special treatment or they wouldn't be regulars. I belong to Delta's frequent flyer program and travel every week. So how would it be if they asked me to board last this week to Make 'Joe Onetime' happy? Also, who wants to be the last guy to take them to the VIP, if you get what I mean. I do find all the opinions interesting though. It generates thought on new angles.

RootMan:
I didn't misinterpret what you said. I responded more along the lines of monopolizing a large block of time, only because that is my usual MO. I don't make it to the club that often and when I do, I tend to spend a lot of time there. However, like you said, if I were to make a short visit, I also would expect to have "bumping" rights and be able to "cut in", so to speak, as soon as she gets to a breaking point with whomever she may be with at the time.

Your statement about not wanting "to be the last guy to take them to VIP" is also a strong thought in my mind. I don't want to be thinking that others have taken her back before me... If I want to lick her nipple, I don't want to wonder if someone else had just done that... I don't want some sweaty-ass MF getting his smells (and whatever) on my girl before I touch her.. All of those reasons, are why I tend to hookup with my girl as soon as she gets to work... and want to keep her in my company exclusively, until I leave.

Doug: Amen. I'm lucky enough to have to think about way more than spit on the nipple so it's really a concern. But I do the same now, start of shift and keep her busy until I leave. I'm learning how to mark my territory and growl from my dog.

Doug: Really? No dances, tips, etc.? Awesome!

Chandler: I didn't say "no dances, tips, etc."... I just said no money was mentioned. Ergo, no money was promised. I DID ultimately spend several hours in VIP with her, and gave her a reasonable amount for same, however when she was turning the other guy away, she didn't know that would take place..

Doug, that's what I meant by outbidding the other guy. Not that any literal auction took place for her quid pro quo attention. She knew you as a bigger spender whose lavish generosity she could rely on, but only if she catered to your need to have her exclusively for the duration of your visit.

Chitown once posted about being caught in the position of the "other guy". A favorite stripper who had spent all her time with him whenever he was in the club suddenly one night failed to jump over to his table, but instead clung to a "whale" who routinely kept 3 or 4 girls monopolized at once. The guy always dropped hundreds of dollars on each girl, with the unspoken understanding that it was dependent on their exclusive attention. Chitown just never happened to visit the club before when the whale was in the house.

You never know when a bigger spender is going to come along and knock you off your top ranking. I've run into similar situations - I bet most of us have - maybe not as stark as what Chitown described. Although I don't really see anything wrong with being a whale per se, it can be pretty annoying to run into. Thing is, I just can't relate to the appeal of it. If a stripper I like wants to spend all her time hanging out with me of her own accord, it's flattering. But if I have to tell her I need her to do that and then buy hours of her VIP time, it seems like it would sort of spoil the effect. Maybe that's just me. And I definitely wouldn't get any pleasure out of seeing the other guy's hopes get dashed, although I admire your candor in crowing about it.

"Thing is, I just can't relate to the appeal of it. If a stripper I like wants to spend all her time hanging out with me of her own accord, it's flattering. But if I have to tell her I need her to do that and then buy hours of her VIP time, it seems like it would sort of spoil the effect."

Huh? We implicitly understand that they are only around for the $$$ anyway. And that's how we want it. Why not make it implicit? Especially if you do have a whale size wallet? (Hint: it's about control more than "like".)

Yeah, but if it doesn't "just happen" naturally, it can feel faked and mercenary. She can't just dive right in and say, "I'm going to act like I like you and you're going to pay me." Sure, we KNOW that this is the fantasy, but we want to sidle up to it and ease our way into it slowly, so that we can forget that we're fooling ourselves.

Kind of like chicks in civilian life, in fact. We want that it "just happened," and NOT that some "technique" was used to "persuade" us. Nobody wants to feel like he ended up being "sold" on something; nobody wants to feel like he isn't likeable and the only reason people hang out with him is for his money.

I'm not knocking anybody for doing that. All I'm asking is how anyone can feel flattered that she agrees to hang out under those conditions, and what's so satisfying about seeing her other customers pissed off.

...that was in reaction to Bobby's post, before I'd seen Book Guy's. BG's first paragraph probably says it better. Doug probably feels like it's "just happening", but to hear it described, it's hard to see how it wouldn't feel faked and mercenary.

Not so sure I agree it's like chicks in civilian life, though.

Chandler: I didn't out bid the other guy, and the dancer had no idea that I might be a big spender. What she DID know is that we planned to OTC later in the week, but for all she knew we were going to chill together to get reacquainted. Reflecting upon what I typed, I guess you could say that I was "crowing about dashing another guy's hopes", and that I considered it satisfying to see. I s'pose the reason that I feel that way is that I have been on the other side, more times than not. I've seen the doofus sitting there with a hot dancer on his lap all night; a dancer that won't give me the time of day (err.. night). I've sat there wondering why is she sitting there with that loser, when she could be with me? So, when the shoe is on the other foot for a change, yeah, it IS a bit satisfying.

Doug, you asked her to ignore all her paying customers in order to be exclusively yours for the evening, and she didn't expect to take a lot of your money, but it just happened to turn out that way? In your mind, perhaps, but it sure seems that you have a remarkable capacity for, as Book Guy says, forgetting that your fooling yourself.

If that sounds harsh, I don't mean it to be - we all do the same thing to some extent. Whatever allows us to inhabit the fantasy. I tell myself that if I limit my spending on any one girl to no more than a few dances, I get less blatantly mercenary, more genuine treatment, but that's probably just a different form of self-deception. I do try to leave the fantasy at the exit door and not carry it over into my postings here.

Honestly, I don't know about chicks in civilian life. I shouldn't have made any assertions at all about THEM ... :(