Conversations with Wondergirl
FONDL
Our discussions started with FONDL originally making some comments about the attitudes of some dancers that she encountered.
Wondergirl - I totally agree with you. From what I've noticed the girls feel guilty about what they are doing. They feel dirty and ashamed as well. I think alot are truly ashamed of themselves so they get this harsh attitude to convince the world it doesnt bother them. Some girls probably do it because they enjoy the power over men. These girls probably lived lives where a father or boyfriend ruled over their lives and when they got away they still carry bitter feelings towards men. If they do enjoy it they are ostricized by the other girls (I learned that the hard way LOL) and label them "extras" girls. In order to make themselves feel better they justify it by saying "at least Im not dirty like her". (Like in Lord of the Flies)
I truly believe that if our country didn't make stripping (and even prostution) so tabu alot more ....hmm..mentally stable (for lack of a better term) dancers and customers would appear. The fact that you guys on the site are grouping together is a start. You guys enjoy looking at pretty girls and that's normal. So why then should you have to skulk in the shadows of the internet and be ridiculed by the very dancers you go see? As for the dancers, why do they feel so offended when some one finds them arousing and pleasant to be around, its a compliment.
Look at the Geishas - they had their skills down to an art form. It wasn,t purely sex. They were trained to be graceful and well versed in arts and literature. They were attentive and able to carry on a conversation. Sometimes thats all someone wants, plesant company to forget your woes for a bit.
Mankind trained itself to deny our most natural reactions and urges. We've replaced it with McDonalds and gossip television. Women are losing their feminity under the guise of equal rights and liberation. I don't feel liberated, I feel oppressed by my own kind. Men have been browbeaten down to ultrafeminine Backstreet boys. If they show any natural male inclination they are pigs.
FONDL - Wondergirl, that's a pretty profound email. I agree with everything you said (which is maybe why I think it's profound - LOL.) I also think there are two other factors at work here:
(1) When people take a new job (in any field) they go through three phases. First they are excited and full of positive energy and think everything is wonderful. Then gradually as time goes on (typically 3-12 months) reality begins to set in and they discover that everything isn't wonderful and exciting, there are things they don't like. Eventually they will respond in one of three ways: they quit and move on, or they come to terms with the job and accept it and try to make the most of it, or they stick with it but hate it and complain constantly and do as little as possible. The strip club industry seems to have a disproportionate percentage of people in the latter group. My advice to you (which I doubt you need) is to avoid such people as much as possible, they can poison your mind if you let them.
(2) The other aspect is that our country is full of people who think the world owes them a living, that the government should take care of all their needs without them having to do anything. When they get out into the real world and discover that they actually have to work, they're pissed off. They think life is unfair. These are the dancers who think that guys should throw money at them just for taking their clothes off, they shouldn't actually have to be nice to the customers and they resent them for thinking so.
The good thing about all this is that you can take advantage of it. Try hard and keep a positive attitude and you will stand out, you'll be one of the most popular girls. And one of the best paid. It's also more fun that way.
My ATF is one of the most positive people I've ever met (which is how she got to be my ATF) - she's always smiling and laughing, in spite of having come from a really shitty background. I once asked her why she's always so positive. Her answer - "I choose to be positive, life is more fun that way." Now that's profound.
W - LOL. I got a bit preachey there but its something that always bugged me.
I think people started expecting life to be handed to them in the 80s (aka generation X)
And now that generation Xrs are having children - look at how the world is developing now, we've become nothing but consumers. We really arent very productive compared to the rest of the world.
Anyway before I step up to the soapbox I should tell you that Club Risque called and they want me to float between their other clubs. I told them Id think about it. Its some crazy driving. But I do have other auditions lined up.
Also I settled on Angelica as my stage name hee hee.
F - I wasn't being sarcastic, I really did find your comments to be pretty profound. In fact I'd like to share some of them on TUSCL, only with your permission of course, it's stuff we've often talked about and an honest dancer's prespective (which is hard to get) would be interesting. May I?
I disagree on your point about the 80s - I think this was all an outgrowth of the 60s. Young people totally screwed up their lives, then expected someone else to take care of them. Since then an awful lot of people haven't been willing to take responsibility for their own lives - they want to take all kinds of outrageous risks, then have someone else bail them out when things inevitably go wrong. It's all part of nanny government.
Congratulations on Club Risque. I've never been to their other 2 clubs but they're not far away from the one we visited, maybe 15 or 20 minutes max. The NJ one might even be closer for you. What other clubs are you considering?
W - I know you werent being sarcastic LOL. Its fine if you want to post them too, in fact I was thinking about that too.
You're right, it was in the 60's, I didnt even consider that. (I wasn't around then hee hee.)But yes, that's when people did start expecting a hand out while simutaneously complaning about the state of things.
I was looking at that Wedgewood Inn but I want to know what it's like first. Their big selling point was work here then go to your nite job. Im going to Jersey Girls tomorrow and then hitting up the Paterson NJ clubs.
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As for the argument about "when it started to go bad", I believe it was Aristotle (or one of those dead guys) who heavily criticized the newer generation. I was born in 1954 and should be a product of the permissive 60's, but my parents were raised in the Great Depression, so I learned about a good work ethic and not complaining (too much). They say adversity builds character. I don't think we Americans have seen too much adversity lately. Although I would not wish upon us another depression.
BTW, FONDLY, I love your ATF's positive attitude philosophy. We like to blame our brain chemistry for our foul moods, but the brain has been shown to be a 2-way street. We can create our own moods (change our brain chemistry and wiring over the long term) by simply thinking good or bad. This is not "new age" thinking..this is direct from the neuro-scientific community. Now, repeat after me, "I am a highly disireable stud...strippers want to give me dances for free..."
Dont worry hun! Occasionally my mind farts out something semiliterate. Im working on it LOL
Also, Girls don't label other dancers as "Extra" girls because it makes them feel better, they are "extra" girls because they provide extras. It's really that simple.
As far as my club, most of the other dancers know my FAV and I do 2fers, but don't know I pay the single LD price for them. The clug staff helps keep this under the counter, so to speak.
And at this club a hug was an extra to some. Also they heckled other girls who did pole tricks. AT THAT CLUB!. I am not saying its a "dancer" thing either. Im saying most PEOPLE who feel the need to degrade others do it for a personal reason. Like in highschool.
Not in the way most people think -- the whole "give me my money because I exist" thing I certainly don't agree with. But I do think that a government's responsibility (among other things), and a society's responsibility as a whole, is to take advantage of people's willingness to work, and people's interest in participating in the dignity of work. If we have a society where people are 'worth more' to us as unemployed wretches, then we have a bad society.
Sure, the unemployed people do indeed (in my opinion) have to go out and actually develop skills which are marketable, according to the current market conditions, and then actively sell those skills in some manner, and then also make themselves into a productive member of the workplace where those skills are "bought" by wages or by customer choices to patronize a service or buy a product. Sure, they can't just whine, "I was always a fisherman, I don't care if there aren't any more fish in the sea, I HAVE A RIGHT TO FISH and BE PAID FOR IT." Hate that. Learn to type, fishing isn't marketable in that way any more.
But at the same time, if there is a crowd of able people interested in contributing positively to society, and yet society as a whole just kind of says, "Well, y'all are cute and all, but we don't want you, you'll have to do without" then that society has a problem. It's doing without the contributions of those members, and is generally writing off what could be a wonderfully useful engine for positive change and productivity. In many Islamic countries, for instance, women are denied basic education. Eventually this is a bad plan for them, and a good plan for the developed West, simply because getting women involved in the more complicated aspects of problem-solving means, having twice as many minds to bring to bear on given problems. The Islamic countries are choosing to disregard and disable many people who are potentially beneficial contributors.
Well, I feel the same can happen in the West in different manners. If we have a strictly market-system that says, we'd rather outsource our idiot-talk-desk people to Bangalore and Pondicherry, then we're saying that Americans aren't worth as much to us. Idiots are a dime a dozen -- we need to employ our local idiots, because otherwise we'll have unemployed idiots lolling about, taking up social services. I don't mean to defend the lazy idiots who don't WANT to work -- they can shut up and roll over and die; but the rest of us, who WANT to be involved in our society's betterment and productivity, but are told _de_facto_ by our society, "We don't care if you're smart, capable, productive when you're on the job. We don't need your contribution." Why should we stay? Why not go to Holland, where they'll let us add something to the common weal and get the benefit of the dignity of earning our own way? What's so great about a land that doesn't want us?
Glad I got that started. :)
What I wonder is how do these girls get into the country? I thought you had to have some special schooling or skill to get in. They don't sneak across the Mexican border, do they? Can anyone anywhere just hop on a plane and come here? If so that's pretty scary.
As a GENERAL rule, the Russkis are the ones that think they should get money just for being there (regardless of how bad or stuck up they are) and the Brazi girls are much more friendly and glad to be there and grateful for the money and attention.
MisterGuy: Are you sure that you didn't mean "I've only seen balled ones so far", and not "bald"?
I got the joke before Bones. :)