I just wanted to get an opinion from a male SC-goer's point of view. If you wanted to hire a girl to give you private dances OTC, with the understanding that while it would be way more "intimate" than what would happen ITC, but yet no sex would be involved...what would be the ideal "donation" for her services?
It really depends on the services rendered. If you can tell us what you had in mind we can probably give you an accurate estimate. Feel free to use the private messaging feature if you prefer not to use the public forum.
trojangreg, nothing personal, but I did mean for the question to be directed at those who WOULD like dances done OTC...Contrary to very popular belief, the terms "stripper," and "prostitute" aren't synonymous with one another. Maybe it's just me, but I guess I just don't get it, but I've never quite understood why men try to pay dancers for sex. If you are trying to get f**ked, wouldn't you go to someone who specializes in that area? It's kinda like asking a carpenter to repair your plumbing...bad analogy, I know but just my way of thinking...
Tessie, I'm not sure what you mean by it being more intimate but that no sex is involved. So many clubs provide such a high level of intimacy today that the only way it could possibly be more intimate is to include sexual activity. So unless you're in an area where clubs are all low-contact, your question doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
A full-service escort charges $200-300 or so an hour depending on where you are and how young and attractive she is. An erotic massage is often a little less, $150-200, but some kind of sexual activity such as a hand job will often be included. There are services in some cities that will provide girls to dance (and nothing else) for private parties for around $200 an hour, but the girl is probably only getting half of that.
So $200 an hour is probably the upper limit of what you could ask, again depending on where you are and how attractive and friendly. And also depending on what else is available in your area. Just be advised that if you're doing private one-on-one sessions many customers will expect some sexual activities to be included no matter how much you charge. And the more you charge the more they will expect.
Can you be more specific about what you mean by "more intimate"? And how you expect to attract customers?
Right now I am seeing a dancer OTC for what started as a more "intimate" dance, but ultimately has turned into full blown sex. Even though it was never intended to go that route....how could it not? You are both OTC, in a private surrounding (hotel room), and nature will usually take it's course, if the chemistry is right & both parties agree to it.
And I am a woman, TessieV, so it not just men that are chasing after hot strippers.
Sometimes we actually catch 'em!
lopaw, lol...Since I am VERY much bi, I wouldn't mind being "caught" by a hot women, either.
If I were to develop a regular, OTC relationship with a guy who enjoyed private sessions, then yeah...perhaps nature would take its course. But I am not a prostitute. Not that I look down on anyone for what they do to get by, but it's just not a decision I have made myself.
I have been approached many times for OTC dances. I will not do it unless the guy understands UP-FRONT, that no penetration involved. I usually charge $250 an hour. Never had any complaints, and to be strictly no sex, I usually always get a generous tip. There have been cases where I liked the guy, and wanted to get to know him outside of the typical "customer" relationship. In that case, while there was sex, there was NO charge.
Fondl,Yes, I am in a very low-mileage area. A VIP session at my club will run you $300 for half-hour, and the maximum mileage you could expect is some touching. There are cameras in random suites, and you don't know which ones are on any given night. The customer can tip the floormen, and that affords you a bit more privacy, at least he isn't running in and out poking his head in the room...but as I stated, there is only so much privacy you can expect with cameras.
In the above post you mention"...no penetration involved." So then it follows that anything other than penetration is NOT sex in your book. That said, I think a good time could be had even with out dancing.
Tessie, I missed the couple of posts that were previous to my last one. So let me answer your question, "why do men pay dancers for sex." There are at laest 2 reasons: first, every guy here will tell you he enjoys the uncertainty and the thrill of the chase, which is missing with an escort encounter. And second, guys go to strip clubs looking for sex because it's there. I agree that not all strippers are prostitutes, in fact most probably aren't. But many strippers do provide sex in one form or another to some customers (and probably most of them don't consider themselves to be prostitutes either.)
But now you've got me really confused - it sounds to me like you're already doing what you are asking about, so you probably know more about it than anyone here. I'm probably the only person here who would even be interested in what you describe, in fact some time ago I was looking for exactly that. And what I discovered was that every girl I found wanted just as much money as a full-service prostitute would charge. Which I thought was ridiculus. For $200 I can have a great time in a strip club for 2 hours or more, why would I pay a girl that for one hour? Maybe I'd do that for a girl who I knew well and really liked, but a total stranger - no way. Consider yourself fortunate if you have customers who will pay that. I doubt if you'll find anyone here who would.
And Tessie, a 1/2 hour session in your club's VIP room wound never run me $300 or anywhere near that because I wouldn't pay that much for what you describe. Which is another part of the answer to your question - guys expect sex in strip clubs because prices have gotten so high.
Fondl...never said that it would run you, specifically that amount. And I also don't set the prices at the club. Having said that, when it's in "season, "there are never any shortages of customers willing to pay just that.
Sorry, Tessie. Club prices are a sore subject for me. I stopped going to the last 2 clubs in which I hung out regualrly because they raised prices to what I thought was an excessive level. It's my opinion that clubs are chasing away lots of good customers (including me) by raising prices. Maybe it's good for the clubs but it's making it a lot harder for many dancers to earn a living. Seems like every club wants to become a Gentlemen's Club so they can charge high prices for their VIP rooms, but there aren't enough high rollers to go around. In my opinion high prices are killing the business. And it's probably a major reason why your club isn't doing any business in the off season - the locals won't pay those kinds of prices. We've talked about that issue here a lot.
Anyway I wasn't criticizing you, I was trying to answer your question about guys going to strip clubs looking for sex. IMO the higher pricing is a major part of the answer - when guys have to pay more they expect more in return. And the girls are often caught in the middle - they're being squeezed by increasing demand for extras and declining incomes.
The guy may a bit self-delusional if he has convinced himself that he is not really after sex. Sounds like a milkable sucker to me. Not that I like to give any help to your side.
TessieV - I once had an OTC with a stripper, but it ended up with a BBBJ & CIM.
If you want to keep the intamacy low (CBJ or HJ) but no penetration, you might get some hits. But, you have to be up front and frank (not my name) with the potential customer. Also, make sure it isn't a vice cop you're propositioning.
Personally, I would probably do the OTC intimate LD routine, but would have to know how much time the dancer plans on spending with me. Hot LPs in a private environment can be very exciting. I wouldn't pay more than $200 for 30 minutes worth of LDs though. The more intimate, the bigger the tip of course. Be sure to bring your boombox!! :-)
The first time my ATF visited my apartment I was hoping that she would do some private dancing but she wan't interested, she just wanted to be friends. That was 10 years ago and we're still friends.
I don't know anyone interested in this sort of thing but I don't talk to the local strip club patrons too much. One dancer talked me into it when I was brand new to strip clubs but I only paid her for the dances she did at her discounted two for one price. I think the rest of the time she had me bring some beer over to her place and I drank that while she sat on her sofa watching the Simpsons. I pretty much bought the same number of dances and paid the same price to her that I would have spent on her in the club. Things started off like in the topless club. After she got more familiar with me she started doing the dances completely nude but kept me from getting too close. She was new to dancing and it was all new to me at the time as well or I might not have bothered. I can get more mileage in the clubs.
This is an interesting discussion. Some of us are having a hard time imagining the OTC situation that woul dbe any better than what we get in the club, but I suspect some other guys would love it. If you read the reviews here, a commom complaint is the lack of privacy for lap dances. Some guys seem to crave that privacy (I, on the other hand, seem to like the orgy type of atmosphere).
Anybody else remember the movie Klute? Jane Fonda plays an escort. At one point, she visits an old guy in a textile loft, and simply undresses for him. It is an unsually erotic moment.
RE: Reasonable donation for OTC "Intimate LD w/o sexual penetration:
I'd cap it @ 75% of the going escort rate PROVIDED that LD duplicates very closely Tampa or COI like "mileage"/presentation (leaves little to imagination).
OTOH, your rate of $250/hr not too much outa ballpark, assuming club $20LD, 3-4 min song= $300-$400/hr, but again OTC$$ is 100% yours. Also offsetting example is when 1 buys a gallon of milk, customer gets large volume discount. Eg- customer doesn't pay equivalent per pint price of buying a singular pint, but a per pint price significantly less for buying large volume, especially if no middleman is involved.
Your proposal sounds like another appealing aspect of stripclubing. I assume that you'd develop a certain comfort zone w. cust. before doing any activity outside the club umbrella, just as he/(she) will feel fairly assured that a certain satisfactory minimum will be met.
I suspect the young lady is looking to maximize profit rather than charging a "reasonable" amount. I would say charge MORE than what an escort would for the same amount of time. The guy probably does not know the game if he is content with not getting sex, so don't assume he knows what a reasonable price would be. Start the negotiation at at least $500/hr. If does turn out the he has more knowledge of reasonable prices than you expect, then you can slowly drop it down into the reasonable range.
Priing of a service like this is like pricing most anything else - there's a negative correlation between price and volume, the most you charge the fewer customers you will have. The trick is to set the price at the level where you get as many customers as you want at the highest price. You can also do skimming cinse the customers presumably don't know each other - charge more for the people who are willing to pay top dollar, less for those who won't.
There's also the question of where - if you have to rent a room somewhere who pays? That's also part of the price consideration.
Hi, I'm a new dancer here. I have a lot of questions. The answers are quite obvious. I want a chance to pontificate about what *I* think. You should listen to me, cater to me, treat me like I'm special. I haven't been here very long. I probably won't be here very much longer. But in the meantime I'm going to usurp as much of your time as possible.
Hi, Tessie. I'm a pandering fawning pathetic drooling twit, and I'm delighted to answer your obvious questions as though they were thoughtful and intelligent. Yes, you can make money taking your clothes off for a living. Yes, men really like sex. No, it's not wise to get fat. Golly, you sure are thoughtful and intelligent. I'd really like to come to your club and get a special treatment from you for free. Golly you are classy. You are the classiest person I've ever met. You are certainly perfect.
Hi, I'm a regular poster. I think your questions are obvious. Thanks.
Hi, I'm Book Guy. I find Tessie annoying. Doesn't anyone else notice that she's attention-whoring?
Wow, BookGuy. Women Hater? Since you seem like such a nice guy, maybe I can help YOU out.
The first step is to forgive your mother.
Seriously, though. It appears you have a real problem with dancers. Why do you even bother?
I simply wanted to get the numbers from a customer's perspective.
Forgive me for intruding upon "your" discussion board with my inane questions.
BookGuy...NEVER once did I say that I work for free. I am NOT a new dancer. I've been in this business for years. ..but unlike yourself, I am aware that I cannot possibly know everything there is to know about anything.
I never realized that SC customers would have such a problem answering a question about how they PREFER to be treated.
TessieV:
I have OTCed with quite a few dancers. I've also hired escorts on several occasions. Between the two, I prefer the dancers. Why? FONDL mentioned two reasons, both of which I agree with. Additionally, let me add a few more reasons.
Safety... I've seen enough "reality" shows and news reports where guys expect an escort to show up at his hotel, only to find out that he's become the star of a sting operation. I cannot risk that.
Time... In my experiences with escorts, you pay for an hour... if she happens to bring about an orgasm sooner than that, she is typically done at that point, unless you negotiate for additionally climaxes. When I OTC with dancers, I will spend MANY hours with them. Usually, we will spend 7-8 hours (a normal shift that she would be working at a club, basically) at a time. We will go to lunch/dinner, chat, listen to music, and yes, with some, there will be sex, but not necessarily with all of them.
Would I pay for "LDs that are more intimate", but with the knowledge that there will not be sex? Sure... and I have done so. I would gladly pay a dancer, what I would pay her in the club, just to give me private dances... it makes sense... it's quieter so you can talk... no annoying DJ... no waitress... no $$$ for drinks. On the other hand, SHE doesn't have to work her ass off... she doesn't have to tip-out... it's a win-win situation.
This sort of arrangement has progressed a few times into a "relatiionship", and/or sexual relations.
On the other hand, I've arranged OTC with dancers, where we BOTH know what will happen (sex), and in some cases it's been free... in other cases, I've paid money. For her TIME, though...not for the sex, because she could be earning money working at the club, otherwise.
Tessie, the VIP dances at your club aren't always as tame as you are making them sound. Cameras or not, there is a lot of fun to be had in the VIP there (maybe I'm on video tape, how exciting!) And the price is also very negotiable depending on the dancer.
I have hooked up with a few other dancers outside of the club. If they just wanted to go out to eat with me (at first) or just meet me later, I was usually fine with that. I already felt comfortable with them in the club or knew them from other clubs or else they felt comfortable with me that I couldn't possibly be LE and I didn't know about stings and all that. I've met a few dancers later with no expectation of paying for their time or anything else. In fact I was ticked off at one dancer when we arranged to meet later and she wanted money for her time. She didn't tell me this was what she expected. I wasn't expecting it. I refused to pay her at first but then with plenty of cash and seeing her cry, I did give in that time. I don't recall ever doing that again but I knew to ask more about what a dancer expected rather than what I expected.
I remember in one club in NC, dancers called doing dances in private away from the club as a private party. However they made it clear that's all they did. Dance. I'm afraid someone charging 500 an hour would make a guy think he's going to get a lot more than a dance. At least here in the carolinas where the cost of living is lower than the rest of the country. However you talk about escorts, that's something I know very little about so I really may not have a clue. I remember a Circuit City tv repairman said he could hook me up. That guy was worse than the cable guy in the movies. Did a lousy job fixing the tv too. Getting a replacement tv from Circuit City that went bad a little over a year later, made me ban Circuit City from my shopping list. I'm not surprised they are having trouble now if my experience is the least bit reflective of how they take care of customers. Sorry off topic I guess unless you're talking about pleasing the customer.
Tessie, one of the best ways to annoy guys here is for a dancer (or anyone else of that matter) to ask for our opinions on something, then argue with us when we give an honest answer. That's exactly why I stopped posting on the Pink site, too many of the people there don't want anyone else's opinion when they ask for it, they just want confirmation of their own. If you don't want to hear our opinions here, please don't ask.
We love to have you or any other dancer participate here with us. Just don't try to tell us how we should think. This isn't a politically-correct site.
Tessie, one of the best ways to annoy guys here is for a dancer (or anyone else of that matter) to ask for our opinions on something, then argue with us when we give an honest answer. That's exactly why I stopped posting on the Pink site, too many of the people there don't want anyone else's opinion when they ask for it, they just want confirmation of their own. If you don't want to hear our opinions here, please don't ask.
We love to have you or any other dancer participate here with us. Just don't try to tell us how we should think. This isn't a politically-correct site.
FONDL...you guys have me so confused (okay BookGuy, guess I just totally walked myself into your next insult) WHEN did I try to argue with anyone about their opinions? If I did not want them, I would not have asked for them. PLEASE tell me how I attempted to tell others how/what they should think.
The only time that I have even came close with being rude to ANYONE on this site is my response to BookGuy's insults...and I'm not sorry about that, as I feel them completely unwarranted.
I am totally aware that this site isn't PC...and thank God that it isn't.
Upon stumbling onto this site, I wondered why there were so few female posters. (After all,without both women AND customers it would be impossible to operate a SC.) After experiencing the scorn of some of the males here, I now see why. The girls are simply ran off.
Tessie, I thought your first response to me was pretty argumentative and I was seriously trying to answer your questions, but maybe that was just my perception. If I inferred something that you didn't intend to imply, I'm sorry.
I also thought that your second post, directed to Trogangreg, sounded like you were trying to lecture us all. It's isn't just women, anyone who comes here and tries to tell us what to think or do is asking for grief. But I guess women are more likely to be offended by some of the opinions presented here than are guys. Just like many of us are offended by some of the opinions posted by dancers on the Pink site.
Anyway I hope you stick around. We actually have more women here now than we used to. Just ignore the few women haters that we unfortunately have with us. Believe it or not, most of us try to disagree when we do so in an agreeable manner, although it may not always come across that way.
I didn't say anyone tried to argue. I said the OP tried to attention-whore. It's pretty clear that I didn't say "argue," because the words I used involved the following letters:
Bones, I hate to disappoint you but sometimes I'm not so sure about Book Guy, he often sounds like he hates women. Along with bible thumpers. And conservatives. And ... In fact I wonder if he likes anyone?
Book Guy I was kidding you, I hope you didn't take offense, none was meant. I enjoy most of your posts but sometimes you come across as being awfully negative. I hope for your sake you aren't really like that.
I'm not REALLY like that, FONDL (and no, of course not; no offense was taken) but I DO come across like that on the internet, and sometimes it trickles over into "real" life too. Sure, there are things I'm bitter about in real life, and things I'm unhappy about. But mostly, it's a quirk of my writing preferences and style, that I tend to attack a subject matter which annoys me, to the point that I tend to expend most of my internet energy on things that really bother me. Kind of like the Andy Rooney of internet web boards. "Ya know what really bothers me? These little things in the spark plug boxes. They really bother me. Ya know why?" etc.
In fact, dancers DO really bother me. And women in general. Hot women bother me because I don't get as much sex from them as I would like; ugly women bother me because I wish they were hotter so that I could try to get more sex from them. It's perennial. Sometimes I consider trying to take salt-peter, or some other anti-Viagra.
Book Guy, unfortunately for us average-looking guys, it's a fact of life that like tends to attract like - good looking girls prefer good looking guys etc. The only exceptions are the guys who have super personalities or super bank accounts. If you don't fit one of those 3 categories (good looking, super personality, rich) forget about bedding super hot women, it ain't gonna happen. Learn to appreciate average looking women, they usually have better personalities and are more fun to be around anyway.
I too tend to get on a soap box here about things that annoy me (like political correctness, which I define as the opposite of independent thought; and big government limiting people's rights - those are probably my two biggies), as do many other people here. But you probably already know that.
Yes, FONDL, I know of which you speak. I, too, am disappointed by the women I attract into my life. That's why I'm going to law school. (Hunh? Well, it made sense at the time.)
BUT
I don't appreciate average-looking women. In so far as my personality-type as assessed by some internet test is accurate, I prefer women to be ... nothing but bodies. I guess I'm a jerk, or something. (I should try making that work for me. So far I've only mastered the part of jerk-dom that offends and runs off women. Evidently there's another portion to jerk-dom, that part in which the callow nubile young girl is attracted to his aggressive alpha-male demeanor. That's a part I haven't mastered yet.)
It's like work. They tell you to address it with a cheery good will. Evidently I'm a fucking bad actor, because I fucking hate my work, and people keep firing me because "you're not happy here." Damn right I'm not ... but I was trying to hide that fact ... hmm ...
About the soap box. Wuddever. I like your points about PC idiots, and I'm in accord with most of them. The internet allows for pontification. In real life I'm mildly different. I sometimes wonder, whether a long stint of ready internet access somehow modifies my real-world personality into the cantankerous bitch that I become when I know I'm posting anonymously. But aside from that, I have very few worries about offending someone on the internet. Electrons are just ... electrons, after all.
Book Guy - since you are so addicted to hot women or at least "do not appreciate average-looking women.", I still cannot why you just write off foreign imports. So what if they eventually become americanized, maybe you could get a few good years with one. You've mentioned height, and that's obviously an immutable characteristic, and many of the asian women (for example) are so short, it doesn't matter anyways.
It is true you could probably work the jerk angle better than you really believe, along with the "moody misunderstood tortured soul depressed loner" image, which might come natural I would guess and all a net plus to some degree - some chicks like that stuff, and it could help with drama junkies. However keep in mind women all over the universe are to some degree chasing jerks, even though some women from other cultures can be and often are far more appreciative of men in general.
The "hot" type women in american want everything - if you cannot project the Alpha image with lots cash along with it it makes it much harder, and height (unfortunately for some) is a roadblock. Look at MONTY PYTHON, everyone always assumed John Cleese was in charge of the team - because he was tall. Life can be a bit unfair at times.
With ATFs its a different deal, because its a non-real world, but sometimes things can and do overlap - so my ATFs, all 4 are born outside the United States, 2 came here relatively recently, and only one is an american citizen, and it reflects in better personalities.
Sorry but its a clear pattern, most women when they ask questions (to men or women) are generally not looking for actual substantive answers, it often seems to more about just some kind of affirmation bullsh.t of some type. I see this pattern all over the pink site, and (in here) with the original question posed and FONDL's (reasonable and well thought out) responses. I think it relates to the male goal/centric vs female relationship centricbasic (general) distinction between the genders
David9999: Were you too busy to respond to the actual woman posting? I'm amazed that you lift from the pink site to pontificate about the male/female dynamic in so many posts, but didn't respond to the poster's original question. I am not attacking you personally (although you may feel differently), but I feel that many who post are only seeking affirmation. This would not be strictly a female issue. TessieV: OTC for more intimacy, but no sex. What the posts here validate is that we each see the OTC event differently. Are you sure that makes the OTC worthwhile to you? Donation to dancer in my backyard for such an event - $200. Don't see it happening for me, or them!
Ideal donation? Well in NYC its not going to be like Wyoming, so not sure how any number can be offered that's valid. As for supposed "non sexual" OTC private dances, most guys would be certainly be looking for either sex of some type or might have some thing for the dancer - and the OP herself has confirmed she ended up having free sex with certain customers down the road anyways, plus SHE having offered such non-sexual OTC private dances a number of times - would seem to know more already about the proper pricing for her area
David9999: I completely agree with your last post. Fondl did give the best response to her question as posed. I didn't see any response by TessieV to Fondl where she debated him on his responses. As I read the posts, her responses were to others who took the subject outside its stated parameter. I'm of the belief that this board might offer more to all if
it was more inclusive. I believe TessieV got a little of the alleged "pink site" tweaking that others complain about happening over there. Tuscl's one sided view doesn't shed much light on the hobby either.
I think anyone new, male or female, who comes here and comes on a little strong on a subject is likely to be harrassed. But if they persevere for a little bit so that others can get to know them, they are likely to be accepted. It seems to be sort of like an initiation. Wondergirl seems to have cleared that hurdle. Don't know if Tessie will choose to do so or not but I hope she does. I for one would like to hear more about her private dancing and how she goes about finding customers (or how they find her.)
I'm not a dude. I'm a dancer. And yes, I think $500 is fair. Let's say (ITC) the average dance costs $20 and lasts 3 minutes: one hour of dances would cost the customer $400. Tack on another $100 for security (as I would insist upon bringing large, burly man to stand outside the door for safety purposes), and there you have it: $500.
Har har har ... if strippers ran the free market ... :) ...
OK then, so what you're saying is, that what you think of as "fair" is actually, quite literally, five times as much as either the market, or most customers, would bear.
Dream on sweetie. What "ought" to be the price, as determined by the fantasies of the service-provider ALONE in a client-to-provider relationship, is almost always wildly inflated. Reality is, that Cadillac and Fed Ex don't get to charge what "seems reasonable" to them. Imagine a world where Cadillac said, "Hey, we have executives to pay! You have to give us a million dollars per car! You don't understand our REASONING!" No no no.
Internet-based providers in most cities charge $200 to $500 for one hour that includes SEXUAL ACTS, not just lap-dancing. A dancer who doesn't offer that, is charging more for less. Some certain gullible males will (probably only once or twice) be taken advantage of by the idiotic system you suggest, but will eventually move on from that level of uninformed consumer stupidity. Arguing that it's simply an exercise in multiplying regular cost of a few minutes, to come up with an hourly cost, is just a pie-in-the-sky act of imagination. Not how truth works ever.
Fed Ex: "One airplane flight usually costs about $250 one-way. So, to ship 10 packages from Memphis to Houston, you'll have to give us over $2000." Funny, it costs about $10 a package, not $250.
I'd tend to agree with Book Guy, but think of it this way (slightly less harsh), how often does a dancer entirely fill an hour with lapdances? I'd say about as close as she can come is a VIP, which in many clubs can be far less than $500/hour. In general a good dancer (assuming 3 minute songs) is going to sell dances in ones, twos and on occasion threes with breaks between. I'd guess, and the dancers can chime in, that $200-300 is a better estimate of what a dancer makes per hour on lapdances, with the usual caveats for how busy the club is and assuming a $20 dance. Now, why would a dancer do a one hour private dance OTC for $200-300? Well for one thing it is guaranteed. For another all that money is hers to keep. Of the $200/hour she makes in the club how much does the club take? How much of a VIP goes to the club? Depending on how you look at it the private show for $300/hour could be a lot more lucrative than a $500 VIP. In addition, from a dancers perspective, it is a good way to hook a customer. All the PL's and RIL's who want to feel special will want to get some private time. I knew a fairly popular dancer that did something very similar. Every so often she'd book a hotel room and then invite regulars to come by for a toy show and lapdance at $200 each. Her boyfriend provided security and there was no sex (aside from the you show). The customers appointments were staggered so there wasn't a line, and after her costs were paid she was clearing $1000, for a much shorter and less stressful night of work, much better than she could ever do in a DC club on most nights. What did the customer get? A private experience that was much more hands on than the club allowed, and a sense un-rushed intimacy with a favorite dancer. I never partook, but I would have if other circumstances didn't intervene. I could see a number of guys wanting something like that, and I think a lot of dancers would, in the right circumstances, provide it. So, is it worth $500? Depends on the customer. More likely than not a dancer is only going to offer this kind of thing to a regular, or a RIL who she knows and is reasonably comfortable with. More than likely a customer is only going to go for it if it offers more contact than the normal LD or VIP in the club does. In those cases I could see a dancer charging $500 and a customer paying it, but it would be limited to customers who valued that particular dancer, not just guys looking for more contact or a better dance. Those guys are more likely to balk at much more than the $200-300 mentioned.
So does the market price what we're talking about at less than $500? Of course it does, if you view the entire experience as a commodity, but then it isn't a commodity, is it?
$500 would be my max for: The best looking woman in the woman who also happened to be the best fuck, and who also happened to be offering "anything goes". Other than that $500 is pure scam.
Too bad we can't require customers to read a "consumer reports re: strippers" before entering the clubs. I hate to see and hear about how strippers are able to rip off so many guys.
MIDancer, as I said before the proper price is the highest number that will still allow her to do the volume of business that she desires, assuming that price and volume are inversely proportional as they usually are. I have no idea what that number is in her area but my guess is that it's well below $500. But one can get a clue from web sites such as Eros, which lists girls offering similar services for $150-220 per hour in my area.
My calculations are not simply based on what the price "ought" to be based on "a simple exercise in multiplying." At my club, I charge $300 to $400 for an hour in the Champagne Room ($300 if it's an exeedingly slow night). This excludes extras and none of the money goes to the club. Now the market value for something along those lines may differ in Tessie's area, which is why I set a range that I consider reasonable. Of course, if a guy wanted dances OTC or wanted extras ITC or OTC, I'd probably give some outrageous price, like $5,000. But that's simply because I have no desire to participate in any OTC activities or any activities that involve extras.
I seriously doubt that there are many strippers who average taking home more than $100 an hour over the course of a year. In fact I'd bet lots of them average less than half that. Seems to me the whole reason Tessie asked her question in the first place is because she isn't making very much right now. So $200 an hour ought to sound pretty attractive.
I'm a customer, but I'll play devil's advocate on the twists and turns taken on this question. It's fair to presume that most dancer's don't average $100/hr take home every working day. It's fair to presume that most customer's can find someone to provide sex for $100. From reading this thread it's fair to presume that most customers in this thread fail to comprehend that the question parameters didn't include having sex. Conclusion: Given the inability to comprehend that there isn't going to be sex, the dancer might be right in overcharging. The reality of that transaction might be nasty for both parties. What's it worth to me - $200. Don't presume to believe it's worth it to any dancer! I think in my state the cash transaction between the 2 parties could come with a prostitution charge for both parties if we argued about this in a public and foolish manner.
Bobbyl, that's a nice generalization, but one that does not apply to me.
Shadowcat, take a Xanax. What do you care what I make or "claim" to make? If your getting more for less, good for you. Enjoy it, and stop fussing whenever you're faced with the reality that there are still strippers out there making good money without crossing legal boundaries.
Tessie: hope you understood I was just being "fun" with my negative comments. I certainly wouldn't patronize someone who offers what you said for how much you said you'd charge, but others might. To the whole board: I'm not necessarily disparaging anyone's choice of pricing. I just think that the market, itself, will bear on the pricing options in a given area, and certain desires of certain providers (to make more money, or to price their services on the basis of "what they think they ought to make" type of analysis) is going to have a lot of come-uppance relative to what actually works in practice. Most of us understand this market-dynamic (Tessie probably does, too! though she's talking about it from the other perspective), but it's interesting how people can get angry about it even when both sides of the discussion agree that both sides konw about the market-dynamic.
Here's my take on it. I think that I'm a pretty savvy customer. I know that there are a LOT of female service providers, who either offer full sex or who do not, who work in the adult services industry. Dancers, prostitutes, all ilk in between and at both extremes. And I know that I personally don't usually pay the asking price, or the first asked price, or even the going rate. I do not get taken advantage of.
In general, however, since this is largely an unregulated and secret, under-the-table market, there's less up-front information about pricing. The internet has largely changed all of that, but previous to public advertisements of the sort we now see on the 'net, girls could very readily take advantage of boys by SAYING one thing but then refusing to do that very thing, yet keeping the money. I think girls now-'days believe that the fact that the 'net has leveled the playing field, is somehow an unfair mistreatement that the girls have received. "Hey, no fair! I should have a RIGHT to bilk people, lie to them, get as much money as I WANT rather than only as much money as THE MARKET DICTATES."
64 comments
Latest
A full-service escort charges $200-300 or so an hour depending on where you are and how young and attractive she is. An erotic massage is often a little less, $150-200, but some kind of sexual activity such as a hand job will often be included. There are services in some cities that will provide girls to dance (and nothing else) for private parties for around $200 an hour, but the girl is probably only getting half of that.
So $200 an hour is probably the upper limit of what you could ask, again depending on where you are and how attractive and friendly. And also depending on what else is available in your area. Just be advised that if you're doing private one-on-one sessions many customers will expect some sexual activities to be included no matter how much you charge. And the more you charge the more they will expect.
Can you be more specific about what you mean by "more intimate"? And how you expect to attract customers?
And I am a woman, TessieV, so it not just men that are chasing after hot strippers.
Sometimes we actually catch 'em!
If I were to develop a regular, OTC relationship with a guy who enjoyed private sessions, then yeah...perhaps nature would take its course. But I am not a prostitute. Not that I look down on anyone for what they do to get by, but it's just not a decision I have made myself.
I have been approached many times for OTC dances. I will not do it unless the guy understands UP-FRONT, that no penetration involved. I usually charge $250 an hour. Never had any complaints, and to be strictly no sex, I usually always get a generous tip. There have been cases where I liked the guy, and wanted to get to know him outside of the typical "customer" relationship. In that case, while there was sex, there was NO charge.
Fondl,Yes, I am in a very low-mileage area. A VIP session at my club will run you $300 for half-hour, and the maximum mileage you could expect is some touching. There are cameras in random suites, and you don't know which ones are on any given night. The customer can tip the floormen, and that affords you a bit more privacy, at least he isn't running in and out poking his head in the room...but as I stated, there is only so much privacy you can expect with cameras.
In the above post you mention"...no penetration involved." So then it follows that anything other than penetration is NOT sex in your book. That said, I think a good time could be had even with out dancing.
But now you've got me really confused - it sounds to me like you're already doing what you are asking about, so you probably know more about it than anyone here. I'm probably the only person here who would even be interested in what you describe, in fact some time ago I was looking for exactly that. And what I discovered was that every girl I found wanted just as much money as a full-service prostitute would charge. Which I thought was ridiculus. For $200 I can have a great time in a strip club for 2 hours or more, why would I pay a girl that for one hour? Maybe I'd do that for a girl who I knew well and really liked, but a total stranger - no way. Consider yourself fortunate if you have customers who will pay that. I doubt if you'll find anyone here who would.
And Tessie, a 1/2 hour session in your club's VIP room wound never run me $300 or anywhere near that because I wouldn't pay that much for what you describe. Which is another part of the answer to your question - guys expect sex in strip clubs because prices have gotten so high.
Anyway I wasn't criticizing you, I was trying to answer your question about guys going to strip clubs looking for sex. IMO the higher pricing is a major part of the answer - when guys have to pay more they expect more in return. And the girls are often caught in the middle - they're being squeezed by increasing demand for extras and declining incomes.
If you want to keep the intamacy low (CBJ or HJ) but no penetration, you might get some hits. But, you have to be up front and frank (not my name) with the potential customer. Also, make sure it isn't a vice cop you're propositioning.
Personally, I would probably do the OTC intimate LD routine, but would have to know how much time the dancer plans on spending with me. Hot LPs in a private environment can be very exciting. I wouldn't pay more than $200 for 30 minutes worth of LDs though. The more intimate, the bigger the tip of course. Be sure to bring your boombox!! :-)
Anybody else remember the movie Klute? Jane Fonda plays an escort. At one point, she visits an old guy in a textile loft, and simply undresses for him. It is an unsually erotic moment.
I'd cap it @ 75% of the going escort rate PROVIDED that LD duplicates very closely Tampa or COI like "mileage"/presentation (leaves little to imagination).
OTOH, your rate of $250/hr not too much outa ballpark, assuming club $20LD, 3-4 min song= $300-$400/hr, but again OTC$$ is 100% yours. Also offsetting example is when 1 buys a gallon of milk, customer gets large volume discount. Eg- customer doesn't pay equivalent per pint price of buying a singular pint, but a per pint price significantly less for buying large volume, especially if no middleman is involved.
Your proposal sounds like another appealing aspect of stripclubing. I assume that you'd develop a certain comfort zone w. cust. before doing any activity outside the club umbrella, just as he/(she) will feel fairly assured that a certain satisfactory minimum will be met.
There's also the question of where - if you have to rent a room somewhere who pays? That's also part of the price consideration.
Hi, Tessie. I'm a pandering fawning pathetic drooling twit, and I'm delighted to answer your obvious questions as though they were thoughtful and intelligent. Yes, you can make money taking your clothes off for a living. Yes, men really like sex. No, it's not wise to get fat. Golly, you sure are thoughtful and intelligent. I'd really like to come to your club and get a special treatment from you for free. Golly you are classy. You are the classiest person I've ever met. You are certainly perfect.
Hi, I'm a regular poster. I think your questions are obvious. Thanks.
Hi, I'm Book Guy. I find Tessie annoying. Doesn't anyone else notice that she's attention-whoring?
The first step is to forgive your mother.
Seriously, though. It appears you have a real problem with dancers. Why do you even bother?
I simply wanted to get the numbers from a customer's perspective.
Forgive me for intruding upon "your" discussion board with my inane questions.
I never realized that SC customers would have such a problem answering a question about how they PREFER to be treated.
I have OTCed with quite a few dancers. I've also hired escorts on several occasions. Between the two, I prefer the dancers. Why? FONDL mentioned two reasons, both of which I agree with. Additionally, let me add a few more reasons.
Safety... I've seen enough "reality" shows and news reports where guys expect an escort to show up at his hotel, only to find out that he's become the star of a sting operation. I cannot risk that.
Time... In my experiences with escorts, you pay for an hour... if she happens to bring about an orgasm sooner than that, she is typically done at that point, unless you negotiate for additionally climaxes. When I OTC with dancers, I will spend MANY hours with them. Usually, we will spend 7-8 hours (a normal shift that she would be working at a club, basically) at a time. We will go to lunch/dinner, chat, listen to music, and yes, with some, there will be sex, but not necessarily with all of them.
Would I pay for "LDs that are more intimate", but with the knowledge that there will not be sex? Sure... and I have done so. I would gladly pay a dancer, what I would pay her in the club, just to give me private dances... it makes sense... it's quieter so you can talk... no annoying DJ... no waitress... no $$$ for drinks. On the other hand, SHE doesn't have to work her ass off... she doesn't have to tip-out... it's a win-win situation.
This sort of arrangement has progressed a few times into a "relatiionship", and/or sexual relations.
On the other hand, I've arranged OTC with dancers, where we BOTH know what will happen (sex), and in some cases it's been free... in other cases, I've paid money. For her TIME, though...not for the sex, because she could be earning money working at the club, otherwise.
Gotta love lopaw's posts.
I remember in one club in NC, dancers called doing dances in private away from the club as a private party. However they made it clear that's all they did. Dance. I'm afraid someone charging 500 an hour would make a guy think he's going to get a lot more than a dance. At least here in the carolinas where the cost of living is lower than the rest of the country. However you talk about escorts, that's something I know very little about so I really may not have a clue. I remember a Circuit City tv repairman said he could hook me up. That guy was worse than the cable guy in the movies. Did a lousy job fixing the tv too. Getting a replacement tv from Circuit City that went bad a little over a year later, made me ban Circuit City from my shopping list. I'm not surprised they are having trouble now if my experience is the least bit reflective of how they take care of customers. Sorry off topic I guess unless you're talking about pleasing the customer.
We love to have you or any other dancer participate here with us. Just don't try to tell us how we should think. This isn't a politically-correct site.
We love to have you or any other dancer participate here with us. Just don't try to tell us how we should think. This isn't a politically-correct site.
The only time that I have even came close with being rude to ANYONE on this site is my response to BookGuy's insults...and I'm not sorry about that, as I feel them completely unwarranted.
I am totally aware that this site isn't PC...and thank God that it isn't.
Upon stumbling onto this site, I wondered why there were so few female posters. (After all,without both women AND customers it would be impossible to operate a SC.) After experiencing the scorn of some of the males here, I now see why. The girls are simply ran off.
I also thought that your second post, directed to Trogangreg, sounded like you were trying to lecture us all. It's isn't just women, anyone who comes here and tries to tell us what to think or do is asking for grief. But I guess women are more likely to be offended by some of the opinions presented here than are guys. Just like many of us are offended by some of the opinions posted by dancers on the Pink site.
Anyway I hope you stick around. We actually have more women here now than we used to. Just ignore the few women haters that we unfortunately have with us. Believe it or not, most of us try to disagree when we do so in an agreeable manner, although it may not always come across that way.
I say "shoot em" or "hang em" soon as they're identified!!!!
A, T, T, E, N, T, I, O, N, W, H, O, R, and E.
Really, it's kind of straightforward.
TessieV - feel free to use the "ignore" link for the more annoying haters.
It's a godsend.
I really hate Huckabee. He scares me more than most.
In fact, dancers DO really bother me. And women in general. Hot women bother me because I don't get as much sex from them as I would like; ugly women bother me because I wish they were hotter so that I could try to get more sex from them. It's perennial. Sometimes I consider trying to take salt-peter, or some other anti-Viagra.
I too tend to get on a soap box here about things that annoy me (like political correctness, which I define as the opposite of independent thought; and big government limiting people's rights - those are probably my two biggies), as do many other people here. But you probably already know that.
BUT
I don't appreciate average-looking women. In so far as my personality-type as assessed by some internet test is accurate, I prefer women to be ... nothing but bodies. I guess I'm a jerk, or something. (I should try making that work for me. So far I've only mastered the part of jerk-dom that offends and runs off women. Evidently there's another portion to jerk-dom, that part in which the callow nubile young girl is attracted to his aggressive alpha-male demeanor. That's a part I haven't mastered yet.)
It's like work. They tell you to address it with a cheery good will. Evidently I'm a fucking bad actor, because I fucking hate my work, and people keep firing me because "you're not happy here." Damn right I'm not ... but I was trying to hide that fact ... hmm ...
About the soap box. Wuddever. I like your points about PC idiots, and I'm in accord with most of them. The internet allows for pontification. In real life I'm mildly different. I sometimes wonder, whether a long stint of ready internet access somehow modifies my real-world personality into the cantankerous bitch that I become when I know I'm posting anonymously. But aside from that, I have very few worries about offending someone on the internet. Electrons are just ... electrons, after all.
Book Guy - since you are so addicted to hot women or at least "do not appreciate average-looking women.", I still cannot why you just write off foreign imports. So what if they eventually become americanized, maybe you could get a few good years with one. You've mentioned height, and that's obviously an immutable characteristic, and many of the asian women (for example) are so short, it doesn't matter anyways.
It is true you could probably work the jerk angle better than you really believe, along with the "moody misunderstood tortured soul depressed loner" image, which might come natural I would guess and all a net plus to some degree - some chicks like that stuff, and it could help with drama junkies. However keep in mind women all over the universe are to some degree chasing jerks, even though some women from other cultures can be and often are far more appreciative of men in general.
The "hot" type women in american want everything - if you cannot project the Alpha image with lots cash along with it it makes it much harder, and height (unfortunately for some) is a roadblock. Look at MONTY PYTHON, everyone always assumed John Cleese was in charge of the team - because he was tall. Life can be a bit unfair at times.
With ATFs its a different deal, because its a non-real world, but sometimes things can and do overlap - so my ATFs, all 4 are born outside the United States, 2 came here relatively recently, and only one is an american citizen, and it reflects in better personalities.
I thought FONDL gave a good response
it was more inclusive. I believe TessieV got a little of the alleged "pink site" tweaking that others complain about happening over there. Tuscl's one sided view doesn't shed much light on the hobby either.
I've never done dances OTC, but I think anywhere from $300-$500 would be appropriate, presuming no "extras" are given.
OK then, so what you're saying is, that what you think of as "fair" is actually, quite literally, five times as much as either the market, or most customers, would bear.
Dream on sweetie. What "ought" to be the price, as determined by the fantasies of the service-provider ALONE in a client-to-provider relationship, is almost always wildly inflated. Reality is, that Cadillac and Fed Ex don't get to charge what "seems reasonable" to them. Imagine a world where Cadillac said, "Hey, we have executives to pay! You have to give us a million dollars per car! You don't understand our REASONING!" No no no.
Internet-based providers in most cities charge $200 to $500 for one hour that includes SEXUAL ACTS, not just lap-dancing. A dancer who doesn't offer that, is charging more for less. Some certain gullible males will (probably only once or twice) be taken advantage of by the idiotic system you suggest, but will eventually move on from that level of uninformed consumer stupidity. Arguing that it's simply an exercise in multiplying regular cost of a few minutes, to come up with an hourly cost, is just a pie-in-the-sky act of imagination. Not how truth works ever.
Fed Ex: "One airplane flight usually costs about $250 one-way. So, to ship 10 packages from Memphis to Houston, you'll have to give us over $2000." Funny, it costs about $10 a package, not $250.
So does the market price what we're talking about at less than $500? Of course it does, if you view the entire experience as a commodity, but then it isn't a commodity, is it?
Too bad we can't require customers to read a "consumer reports re: strippers" before entering the clubs. I hate to see and hear about how strippers are able to rip off so many guys.
My calculations are not simply based on what the price "ought" to be based on "a simple exercise in multiplying." At my club, I charge $300 to $400 for an hour in the Champagne Room ($300 if it's an exeedingly slow night). This excludes extras and none of the money goes to the club. Now the market value for something along those lines may differ in Tessie's area, which is why I set a range that I consider reasonable. Of course, if a guy wanted dances OTC or wanted extras ITC or OTC, I'd probably give some outrageous price, like $5,000. But that's simply because I have no desire to participate in any OTC activities or any activities that involve extras.
Shadowcat, take a Xanax. What do you care what I make or "claim" to make? If your getting more for less, good for you. Enjoy it, and stop fussing whenever you're faced with the reality that there are still strippers out there making good money without crossing legal boundaries.
Here's my take on it. I think that I'm a pretty savvy customer. I know that there are a LOT of female service providers, who either offer full sex or who do not, who work in the adult services industry. Dancers, prostitutes, all ilk in between and at both extremes. And I know that I personally don't usually pay the asking price, or the first asked price, or even the going rate. I do not get taken advantage of.
In general, however, since this is largely an unregulated and secret, under-the-table market, there's less up-front information about pricing. The internet has largely changed all of that, but previous to public advertisements of the sort we now see on the 'net, girls could very readily take advantage of boys by SAYING one thing but then refusing to do that very thing, yet keeping the money. I think girls now-'days believe that the fact that the 'net has leveled the playing field, is somehow an unfair mistreatement that the girls have received. "Hey, no fair! I should have a RIGHT to bilk people, lie to them, get as much money as I WANT rather than only as much money as THE MARKET DICTATES."
The market is a harsh master.