Just a Question...
I just wanted to get an opinion from a male SC-goer's point of view. If you wanted to hire a girl to give you private dances OTC, with the understanding that while it would be way more "intimate" than what would happen ITC, but yet no sex would be involved...what would be the ideal "donation" for her services?
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A full-service escort charges $200-300 or so an hour depending on where you are and how young and attractive she is. An erotic massage is often a little less, $150-200, but some kind of sexual activity such as a hand job will often be included. There are services in some cities that will provide girls to dance (and nothing else) for private parties for around $200 an hour, but the girl is probably only getting half of that.
So $200 an hour is probably the upper limit of what you could ask, again depending on where you are and how attractive and friendly. And also depending on what else is available in your area. Just be advised that if you're doing private one-on-one sessions many customers will expect some sexual activities to be included no matter how much you charge. And the more you charge the more they will expect.
Can you be more specific about what you mean by "more intimate"? And how you expect to attract customers?
And I am a woman, TessieV, so it not just men that are chasing after hot strippers.
Sometimes we actually catch 'em!
If I were to develop a regular, OTC relationship with a guy who enjoyed private sessions, then yeah...perhaps nature would take its course. But I am not a prostitute. Not that I look down on anyone for what they do to get by, but it's just not a decision I have made myself.
I have been approached many times for OTC dances. I will not do it unless the guy understands UP-FRONT, that no penetration involved. I usually charge $250 an hour. Never had any complaints, and to be strictly no sex, I usually always get a generous tip. There have been cases where I liked the guy, and wanted to get to know him outside of the typical "customer" relationship. In that case, while there was sex, there was NO charge.
Fondl,Yes, I am in a very low-mileage area. A VIP session at my club will run you $300 for half-hour, and the maximum mileage you could expect is some touching. There are cameras in random suites, and you don't know which ones are on any given night. The customer can tip the floormen, and that affords you a bit more privacy, at least he isn't running in and out poking his head in the room...but as I stated, there is only so much privacy you can expect with cameras.
In the above post you mention"...no penetration involved." So then it follows that anything other than penetration is NOT sex in your book. That said, I think a good time could be had even with out dancing.
But now you've got me really confused - it sounds to me like you're already doing what you are asking about, so you probably know more about it than anyone here. I'm probably the only person here who would even be interested in what you describe, in fact some time ago I was looking for exactly that. And what I discovered was that every girl I found wanted just as much money as a full-service prostitute would charge. Which I thought was ridiculus. For $200 I can have a great time in a strip club for 2 hours or more, why would I pay a girl that for one hour? Maybe I'd do that for a girl who I knew well and really liked, but a total stranger - no way. Consider yourself fortunate if you have customers who will pay that. I doubt if you'll find anyone here who would.
And Tessie, a 1/2 hour session in your club's VIP room wound never run me $300 or anywhere near that because I wouldn't pay that much for what you describe. Which is another part of the answer to your question - guys expect sex in strip clubs because prices have gotten so high.
Anyway I wasn't criticizing you, I was trying to answer your question about guys going to strip clubs looking for sex. IMO the higher pricing is a major part of the answer - when guys have to pay more they expect more in return. And the girls are often caught in the middle - they're being squeezed by increasing demand for extras and declining incomes.
If you want to keep the intamacy low (CBJ or HJ) but no penetration, you might get some hits. But, you have to be up front and frank (not my name) with the potential customer. Also, make sure it isn't a vice cop you're propositioning.
Personally, I would probably do the OTC intimate LD routine, but would have to know how much time the dancer plans on spending with me. Hot LPs in a private environment can be very exciting. I wouldn't pay more than $200 for 30 minutes worth of LDs though. The more intimate, the bigger the tip of course. Be sure to bring your boombox!! :-)
Anybody else remember the movie Klute? Jane Fonda plays an escort. At one point, she visits an old guy in a textile loft, and simply undresses for him. It is an unsually erotic moment.
I'd cap it @ 75% of the going escort rate PROVIDED that LD duplicates very closely Tampa or COI like "mileage"/presentation (leaves little to imagination).
OTOH, your rate of $250/hr not too much outa ballpark, assuming club $20LD, 3-4 min song= $300-$400/hr, but again OTC$$ is 100% yours. Also offsetting example is when 1 buys a gallon of milk, customer gets large volume discount. Eg- customer doesn't pay equivalent per pint price of buying a singular pint, but a per pint price significantly less for buying large volume, especially if no middleman is involved.
Your proposal sounds like another appealing aspect of stripclubing. I assume that you'd develop a certain comfort zone w. cust. before doing any activity outside the club umbrella, just as he/(she) will feel fairly assured that a certain satisfactory minimum will be met.
There's also the question of where - if you have to rent a room somewhere who pays? That's also part of the price consideration.
Hi, Tessie. I'm a pandering fawning pathetic drooling twit, and I'm delighted to answer your obvious questions as though they were thoughtful and intelligent. Yes, you can make money taking your clothes off for a living. Yes, men really like sex. No, it's not wise to get fat. Golly, you sure are thoughtful and intelligent. I'd really like to come to your club and get a special treatment from you for free. Golly you are classy. You are the classiest person I've ever met. You are certainly perfect.
Hi, I'm a regular poster. I think your questions are obvious. Thanks.
Hi, I'm Book Guy. I find Tessie annoying. Doesn't anyone else notice that she's attention-whoring?
The first step is to forgive your mother.
Seriously, though. It appears you have a real problem with dancers. Why do you even bother?
I simply wanted to get the numbers from a customer's perspective.
Forgive me for intruding upon "your" discussion board with my inane questions.
I never realized that SC customers would have such a problem answering a question about how they PREFER to be treated.
I have OTCed with quite a few dancers. I've also hired escorts on several occasions. Between the two, I prefer the dancers. Why? FONDL mentioned two reasons, both of which I agree with. Additionally, let me add a few more reasons.
Safety... I've seen enough "reality" shows and news reports where guys expect an escort to show up at his hotel, only to find out that he's become the star of a sting operation. I cannot risk that.
Time... In my experiences with escorts, you pay for an hour... if she happens to bring about an orgasm sooner than that, she is typically done at that point, unless you negotiate for additionally climaxes. When I OTC with dancers, I will spend MANY hours with them. Usually, we will spend 7-8 hours (a normal shift that she would be working at a club, basically) at a time. We will go to lunch/dinner, chat, listen to music, and yes, with some, there will be sex, but not necessarily with all of them.
Would I pay for "LDs that are more intimate", but with the knowledge that there will not be sex? Sure... and I have done so. I would gladly pay a dancer, what I would pay her in the club, just to give me private dances... it makes sense... it's quieter so you can talk... no annoying DJ... no waitress... no $$$ for drinks. On the other hand, SHE doesn't have to work her ass off... she doesn't have to tip-out... it's a win-win situation.
This sort of arrangement has progressed a few times into a "relatiionship", and/or sexual relations.
On the other hand, I've arranged OTC with dancers, where we BOTH know what will happen (sex), and in some cases it's been free... in other cases, I've paid money. For her TIME, though...not for the sex, because she could be earning money working at the club, otherwise.
Gotta love lopaw's posts.
I remember in one club in NC, dancers called doing dances in private away from the club as a private party. However they made it clear that's all they did. Dance. I'm afraid someone charging 500 an hour would make a guy think he's going to get a lot more than a dance. At least here in the carolinas where the cost of living is lower than the rest of the country. However you talk about escorts, that's something I know very little about so I really may not have a clue. I remember a Circuit City tv repairman said he could hook me up. That guy was worse than the cable guy in the movies. Did a lousy job fixing the tv too. Getting a replacement tv from Circuit City that went bad a little over a year later, made me ban Circuit City from my shopping list. I'm not surprised they are having trouble now if my experience is the least bit reflective of how they take care of customers. Sorry off topic I guess unless you're talking about pleasing the customer.
We love to have you or any other dancer participate here with us. Just don't try to tell us how we should think. This isn't a politically-correct site.
We love to have you or any other dancer participate here with us. Just don't try to tell us how we should think. This isn't a politically-correct site.
The only time that I have even came close with being rude to ANYONE on this site is my response to BookGuy's insults...and I'm not sorry about that, as I feel them completely unwarranted.
I am totally aware that this site isn't PC...and thank God that it isn't.
Upon stumbling onto this site, I wondered why there were so few female posters. (After all,without both women AND customers it would be impossible to operate a SC.) After experiencing the scorn of some of the males here, I now see why. The girls are simply ran off.
I also thought that your second post, directed to Trogangreg, sounded like you were trying to lecture us all. It's isn't just women, anyone who comes here and tries to tell us what to think or do is asking for grief. But I guess women are more likely to be offended by some of the opinions presented here than are guys. Just like many of us are offended by some of the opinions posted by dancers on the Pink site.
Anyway I hope you stick around. We actually have more women here now than we used to. Just ignore the few women haters that we unfortunately have with us. Believe it or not, most of us try to disagree when we do so in an agreeable manner, although it may not always come across that way.
I say "shoot em" or "hang em" soon as they're identified!!!!
A, T, T, E, N, T, I, O, N, W, H, O, R, and E.
Really, it's kind of straightforward.
TessieV - feel free to use the "ignore" link for the more annoying haters.
It's a godsend.
I really hate Huckabee. He scares me more than most.
In fact, dancers DO really bother me. And women in general. Hot women bother me because I don't get as much sex from them as I would like; ugly women bother me because I wish they were hotter so that I could try to get more sex from them. It's perennial. Sometimes I consider trying to take salt-peter, or some other anti-Viagra.
I too tend to get on a soap box here about things that annoy me (like political correctness, which I define as the opposite of independent thought; and big government limiting people's rights - those are probably my two biggies), as do many other people here. But you probably already know that.
BUT
I don't appreciate average-looking women. In so far as my personality-type as assessed by some internet test is accurate, I prefer women to be ... nothing but bodies. I guess I'm a jerk, or something. (I should try making that work for me. So far I've only mastered the part of jerk-dom that offends and runs off women. Evidently there's another portion to jerk-dom, that part in which the callow nubile young girl is attracted to his aggressive alpha-male demeanor. That's a part I haven't mastered yet.)
It's like work. They tell you to address it with a cheery good will. Evidently I'm a fucking bad actor, because I fucking hate my work, and people keep firing me because "you're not happy here." Damn right I'm not ... but I was trying to hide that fact ... hmm ...
About the soap box. Wuddever. I like your points about PC idiots, and I'm in accord with most of them. The internet allows for pontification. In real life I'm mildly different. I sometimes wonder, whether a long stint of ready internet access somehow modifies my real-world personality into the cantankerous bitch that I become when I know I'm posting anonymously. But aside from that, I have very few worries about offending someone on the internet. Electrons are just ... electrons, after all.
Book Guy - since you are so addicted to hot women or at least "do not appreciate average-looking women.", I still cannot why you just write off foreign imports. So what if they eventually become americanized, maybe you could get a few good years with one. You've mentioned height, and that's obviously an immutable characteristic, and many of the asian women (for example) are so short, it doesn't matter anyways.
It is true you could probably work the jerk angle better than you really believe, along with the "moody misunderstood tortured soul depressed loner" image, which might come natural I would guess and all a net plus to some degree - some chicks like that stuff, and it could help with drama junkies. However keep in mind women all over the universe are to some degree chasing jerks, even though some women from other cultures can be and often are far more appreciative of men in general.
The "hot" type women in american want everything - if you cannot project the Alpha image with lots cash along with it it makes it much harder, and height (unfortunately for some) is a roadblock. Look at MONTY PYTHON, everyone always assumed John Cleese was in charge of the team - because he was tall. Life can be a bit unfair at times.
With ATFs its a different deal, because its a non-real world, but sometimes things can and do overlap - so my ATFs, all 4 are born outside the United States, 2 came here relatively recently, and only one is an american citizen, and it reflects in better personalities.
I thought FONDL gave a good response
it was more inclusive. I believe TessieV got a little of the alleged "pink site" tweaking that others complain about happening over there. Tuscl's one sided view doesn't shed much light on the hobby either.
I've never done dances OTC, but I think anywhere from $300-$500 would be appropriate, presuming no "extras" are given.
OK then, so what you're saying is, that what you think of as "fair" is actually, quite literally, five times as much as either the market, or most customers, would bear.
Dream on sweetie. What "ought" to be the price, as determined by the fantasies of the service-provider ALONE in a client-to-provider relationship, is almost always wildly inflated. Reality is, that Cadillac and Fed Ex don't get to charge what "seems reasonable" to them. Imagine a world where Cadillac said, "Hey, we have executives to pay! You have to give us a million dollars per car! You don't understand our REASONING!" No no no.
Internet-based providers in most cities charge $200 to $500 for one hour that includes SEXUAL ACTS, not just lap-dancing. A dancer who doesn't offer that, is charging more for less. Some certain gullible males will (probably only once or twice) be taken advantage of by the idiotic system you suggest, but will eventually move on from that level of uninformed consumer stupidity. Arguing that it's simply an exercise in multiplying regular cost of a few minutes, to come up with an hourly cost, is just a pie-in-the-sky act of imagination. Not how truth works ever.
Fed Ex: "One airplane flight usually costs about $250 one-way. So, to ship 10 packages from Memphis to Houston, you'll have to give us over $2000." Funny, it costs about $10 a package, not $250.
So does the market price what we're talking about at less than $500? Of course it does, if you view the entire experience as a commodity, but then it isn't a commodity, is it?
Too bad we can't require customers to read a "consumer reports re: strippers" before entering the clubs. I hate to see and hear about how strippers are able to rip off so many guys.
My calculations are not simply based on what the price "ought" to be based on "a simple exercise in multiplying." At my club, I charge $300 to $400 for an hour in the Champagne Room ($300 if it's an exeedingly slow night). This excludes extras and none of the money goes to the club. Now the market value for something along those lines may differ in Tessie's area, which is why I set a range that I consider reasonable. Of course, if a guy wanted dances OTC or wanted extras ITC or OTC, I'd probably give some outrageous price, like $5,000. But that's simply because I have no desire to participate in any OTC activities or any activities that involve extras.
Shadowcat, take a Xanax. What do you care what I make or "claim" to make? If your getting more for less, good for you. Enjoy it, and stop fussing whenever you're faced with the reality that there are still strippers out there making good money without crossing legal boundaries.
Here's my take on it. I think that I'm a pretty savvy customer. I know that there are a LOT of female service providers, who either offer full sex or who do not, who work in the adult services industry. Dancers, prostitutes, all ilk in between and at both extremes. And I know that I personally don't usually pay the asking price, or the first asked price, or even the going rate. I do not get taken advantage of.
In general, however, since this is largely an unregulated and secret, under-the-table market, there's less up-front information about pricing. The internet has largely changed all of that, but previous to public advertisements of the sort we now see on the 'net, girls could very readily take advantage of boys by SAYING one thing but then refusing to do that very thing, yet keeping the money. I think girls now-'days believe that the fact that the 'net has leveled the playing field, is somehow an unfair mistreatement that the girls have received. "Hey, no fair! I should have a RIGHT to bilk people, lie to them, get as much money as I WANT rather than only as much money as THE MARKET DICTATES."
The market is a harsh master.