Comments by chitownlawyer (page 21)

About ten years ago I had a bed dance at the Deja Vu in Las Vegas. It may have been the dancer, but the hype/anticipation far exceeded reality, and may have contributed something to my bias against D.V. clubs.

I have never really been all that interested in seeing "pink parts", but contact is a must. As I have said often before in this forum, without contact, I am just as happy with Spectravision back at the hotel.

By the way, this may be because my first sc experiences were at high-contact clubs in Houston, and so subsequent visits to restricted touch (no boobs or ass) clubs have always seemed restrictive by comparison. I have never been to a club that forbade any touching by the customer.

Because I am not interested in another OTC relationship. David, I don't want to be critical, but you seem to start from the assuption that all of us go to SC's for the purpose of getting involved in relationships. To me, it's strictly recreation, and pure fantasy. Once I walk out of the club, the experience is over, and that's how I want it. Therefore, your well-meaning algorithms to demonstrate to me how unlikely I am to get involved in a relationship with someone I meet at a club are really beside the point. That's not why I go there. I also assume that most dancers who will rub their hot young bodies all over me for a steel-engraved photograph of Andrew Jackson or General Grant would not be particularly interested in having a relationship with me in real life. I occasionally go to movies, but not so I can pick up the gal who sells popcorn. It's the same way at a sc. My ATF dancer has different qualities than women I have been involved with outside of strip clubs, including the current one. It's all about context.

No, but a colleague in my hometown married a stripper 26 years younger (he: 49 at the time.) That was five years ago, and they are still together, married, and seem to be very happy.

If I have just gotten to the club, I will say (usually truthfully), that I have just arrived and would like to "veg out" for a while and have an adult beverage before getting any dances. If I have been to the club too long for that to be a plausible explanation, I will say that I am waiting for someone. Since I go to my favorite club often enough to have some idea before the fact of the girls that I want dances from, that is an honest answer. If I am pressed as to who I am waiting for, I will typically have a name handy, if only one of the girls currently on stage. There is such a thing as customer shit, just as there is stripper shit, and I think that the dancers I am talking to recognize the above as customer shit. But at least I am putting some effort in the exchange, and respect them enough to come up with a plausible excuse, rather than saying something rude. Remember, dancers "talk among themselves," and you really don't want them to be talking bad about you in the dressing room. The absolute worst thing you can do to a dancer is to waste her time, and you are better off signalling to her your "dry hole" status (at least as to her) rather than let her talk to you for a half an hour before it becomes brutally obvious that you are not going to get a dance from her, and she has just wasted 1/12 of her shift in an unproductive venture. I also have a selfish interest in quickly terminating encounters with dancers that I don't want to spend time with...I want to be free when dancers that I find attractive become available.

davids, I don't subscribe to the "strippers are wonderful" school of thought. I find just about all variant characteristics of humanity to be represented in dancers about as much as in the general population. However, I will say that I have never felt cheated by a dancer. Maybe this is my good luck, and is atypical. But I do like the straightforward transaction involved with a dancer: she knows what I am offering, I know what she is offering, and we exchange the terms of trade to live out the adage of classical economics that "every voluntary exchange enriches both parties to it." I can see how people can get burned, or think that they have been burned, if they have some unrealistic expectations, be they expectations of a higher level of concupiscence than will be forthcoming, or expectations of a more emotionally personal relationship than will be forthcoming. As for me, I apply my well-worn "Disneyland for Grown-ups" model, and it works fine for me. I might like to get my picture taken with Minnie Mouse, but she's not going to leave the park and come home with me to be my own special "E ride." As I have said before, it's all about context.

My favorite s.c. has something of a reputation as a place where the girls are not very aggressive about getting dances. I don't mind doing the asking. In some ways, I prefer being the one to do the asking, since it guarantees that I will always be talking to a girl that I am interested in getting a dance from. On only one occasion have I had any bad luck....a dancer during an afternoon shift told me that she had "promised" her shift to a regular, and therefore could not do a VIP with me. However, she did do a couple of couch dances for me. Since I give preferential treatment to good customers in my business, I don't begrudge a dancer doing the same with her regulars.

Sort of a little of each. My favorite club has enough good looking girls that I know I'll find at least a few that appeal to me. However, in the back of my mind, I certainly hope that certain specific dancers will be present. I go to the club often enough that I have a general idea of which girls are likely to be working certain nights (or at least who the day v. afternoon v. weekend dancers are). Whenever I go in, there will be at least two or three dancers who are on the top of my list...girls that I feel confident taking straight back to VIP.

In my lifetime, I've had two coats stolen from public places. One was from a strip club. One was from a courthouse, in an area generally only frequented by lawyers, judges and court personnel. I'm not sure if there is any conclusion to be drawn from this, but such are the facts....(In both cases, I was an idiot to leave the coat unattended..But at least I was enjoying myself in VIP while the asshole was stealing. Probably not enjoying myself as much in court when the other coat went AWOL,)

For example, some of you obviously enjoy the stage dancing, whereas I don't very much because I think it's gone downhill in many clubs. FONDL, being about twenty years younger than you, I don't have any frame of reference on this. My experience is that there is not a lot of focus on stage dancing, and that the dancers just use it as "advertisement" for lap/couch/VIPs, where they make the good money. I would have liked to have seen what stage dancing was like before lap dancing came in, and the dancer reallyhad to" make it count" on stage. But I would not like to go back to the days before lap dancing...I have too much fun having a young nekkid woman rubbing against me. Clubs have also become much more explicit sexually which some of you probably like and others including me don't. If you're talking about "pink parts", I agree. Some of us go mainly for companionship and conversation, some are mainly interested in the touching and feeling part. This reminds me of Winston Churchill being seated at a dinner next to a Protestant clergyman. When drinks were offered, the minister said, "I would rather commit adultery than imbibe." Churchill then called back to the waitress: "Miss, come back here, I didn't know there was a choice." Similarly, I like all of those things you mentioned, and fortunately have found a club where I don't have to choose between them....as you well know (or at least remember). Maybe that's too much analysis for you but I find it interesting. I like the analysis. As Socrates said, "The unexamined life is not worth living." Also, I'm not much into sports, and this gives me something that I can put some emotional energy into, but that ultimately has no significance to my real life (like following a sports team.) I don't think today's clubs are as fun as they used to be. I wouldn't know, given only about ten years' experience (as opposed to yours, that spans just about my whole lifetime so far, I suppose). But I have had a great time over the past ten years, and not regretted a penny of the money I have spent at this unique hobby.

I have had this experience, and am always amazed by the trust ont he part of the dancers that I will "do the right thing" when the tiproll comes out. However, since I believe that this trust should be encouraged, I try to be generous and considerate.

I agree. But I have been astonished at the ability of certain dancers to be discreet.

I see...sort of like the rule that you don't point a gun unless you are intending to shoot it, and you don't shoot your weapon unless you are planning on killing what you are shooting at.

I don't think that most clubs will give out this information because there is probably a loose correlation between the names of the dancers who are scheduled to come in and those who actually come in. I have known dancers who call off at the last minute, or just don't come in for scheduled shifts. I have also had dancers tell me that they weren't scheduled to come in, but did so b/c a certain colleague needed a ride (and they figured they'd dancer for 2-3 hours if they were coming to the club anyway), they didn't have anything else going on and figured they'd make some money, etc. The closest I get to knowing who is dancing is when, after I get my first drink of the evening, I walk over to the dj booth and ask to see the menu that he uses to call out stage dancers.

Shasowcat's last comment reminds me of my early days in "the hobby" when I once asked a waitress if she knew if a particular dancer was working. I don't know if she was sincere, or just didn't want to deal with me, but she said she didn't know dancers by their names...just by their drinks.

This whole thread is fascinating to me, because, as I have said on another thread, I have never been scammed by a dancer. I am sure I look like an easy mark in a club. I like to think that I have never been scammed because I have a realistic idea of the tranaction, and what is expected from each side. I cannot, however, discount the possibility that I am such a naive fish that I have been scammed without even being aware of it. Of course, that's an interesting existenitial question: If you have been party to a transaction in which someone else would say you were scammed, but you were personally quite happy with the deal, have you been scammed? Is a scam objective...or does it depend entirely on the mindset of the parties to the transaction? I've got to not go to a forest so that I cannot hear some trees falling (or can I?).

I've gradually changed over the years. I used to be a big breast man. As I have gotten older, I have developed an appreciation for the butt, and that is probably my main interest of the three anatomic choices offered.

Add my name to the list of free market fans. When the customers no longer are getting dances, to the point that you're not making an amount that you think justifies dancing, get out. Otherwise, keep permitting your customers to "vote" with their wallets for you to continue your career. Every voluntary transaction enriches all parties who engage in it.

David, I don't understand your hostility toward dancers. Although you are obviously more articulate than RomanticLover, and able to present your thoughts in a more nuanced way, your emphasis on game playing and "psyching out" dancers indicates that you think the relationship between customer and dancer is an adversarial one. I see it as commercial, with the possibility of some personal aspects...within the commercial relationship. I have clients that I take to ball games, to play golf, out to lunch occasionally, send the obligatory "business" Christmas gift to every year. I think both parties understand that these things are part of a commercial relationship. I don't get offended if the phrase "friend" is a term of art in the club, because I understand that my interaction with the dancer is, from her point of view, to maximize the flow of money from me to her. My goal is to maximize whatever sensuous pleasure I get from her dance. I suppose a dancer could be offended that I will not tip her as much, if at all, if she keeps her top on while dancing, but that reflects the "terms of trade" from the point of view of what I am trying to get out of the situation. If you want to further refine your "solution" to the stripper friendship puzzle, read "The Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith, "Free to Choose" by Milton Friedman, or any economics text written from a free market perspective. It's all about maximizing utility, my friend...on BOTH sides of the transaction. And remember, as I love to say, "Every voluntary transaction enriches all parties to it."

At 42, I do indeed remember before shaved pubic hair came in, and it was always a big surprise to see the size of the jungle that appeared when the panties came off. I dated a girl in college of middle eastern lineage who practically had pubic hair halfway down her thighs. Even with girls of more measured flora, much of the challenge of cunnilingus was finding the equipment. Picking the hairs out of your teeth came later. Although I am generally a traditionalist, some changes have been very good indeed.

"why are you playing all by yourself?"

FONDL: I was an economics major in college, and was accepted to the doctoral program at a major university. However, I decided that the positives of academic life (access to a basically unlimited, rolling supply of undergraduate women) did not outweigh the financial and career uncertainties that come with being junior university faculty. Thus, the law. AN has done an excellent job of refining and extending my analysis. Certain goods are fungible, and, assuming that they meet a basis level of quality (usually as a binary function...they are of marketable quality, or are not), the consumer should look strictly at price. Examples of this would be grain, gasoline (assuming that you don't drive something really exotic), or milk. However, with other economic goods, there is stress on some other aspects of the transaction, to the point that price is not the sole determining factor. These goods tend to predominate in the area of personal services. I think that, if you want a long term, quality relationship, you need to focus on fairness and a high comfort level on both sides, rather than simply focusing on price.

Does Davids remind anyone else of a frequent poster on another board that some of us frequent...a certain "Top Gun?" I'm just asking.

FONDL says: "I think it would remove the sexual tension that often surrounds male-female friendships" I have good friends who are gay, of both genders. However, when I am in a situation with a straight woman, I have always kind of liked the "sexual tension that often surrounds male-female friendships." In the past, it augured the potential for something more. I have not in the past, had difficulty with remaining "friends" with women that I had slept with. Unfortunately, these friendships generally bit the dust after marriage, because my wife was not comfortable with them..Although some people would have drawn a line andwsaid (a la "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"), "Fuck da Wife", I felt that ending friendships that make your wife uncomfortable is part of the marriage deal. But I do miss some of my friends....