who needs extras?

FONDL I have noticed a big treat toward massage places over clubs. The should be worried as the guys with money are finding other places to play. Clubs need to start doing the math.

Back on topic, I've had offers for extras, and I've been given them for free and upfront. I don't want a HJ, but other extras are appreciated. and once I found those girls why would I waste time with others?

Sounds like the Detroit clubs are doing the right thing, cutting prices and doing everything else they can to try to keep their customers happy and attract more of them. Unfortunately, in many areas, clubs are doing the exact opposite, they're raising prices, treating customers like thugs, and hiring way too many girls, many of whom have no business dancing. Every time clubs raise prices I bet the local escort and illicit massage businesses have a celebration. If they don't they should. Because that's where the customers are going. In many areas (read Stripper.Web comments) VIP rooms are going for $200 or more for a half hour and the girls think they're entitled to a big tip on top of that. Does that make any sense to anybody when in most areas you can hire a full-service escort for less than that an hour? And the girls complain that guys expect extras in VIP? C'mon, who's kidding whom? Wake up people, there's real competition out there.

Many older guys, the mainstay of club income, are not interested in extras and are sad to see the deterioration of the club scene. Younger guys with ready access to hot young girls won't pay for extras in the club--and don't buy many dances or drinks. So clubs are losing market and becoming desperate. Detroit's weekly entertainment paper, The Metro Times, www.metrotimes.com recently ran a cover story about the couples hitting the SC club as the new market. Club owners are welcoming customers with all kinds of deals--no cover, first drinks free, etc. Desparate stuff.

I think the real problem is that extras open the club to increased competition. For us guys who don't want extras, we have no interest in things like massage parlors and escorts. But if clubs ignore us in favor of guys who want extras, suddenly they're competing with these other illicit businesses. And when you can hire a full-service escort for $200 or so an hour, that puts a price cap on everything at the club. These clubs are forgetting who their most attractive customers are and what we're looking for. That's why their business keeps declining. To me the answer is to find a fav and hook up with her OTC. As I've said before, I think that's going to become more and more common. The girls really have little choice.

FONDL and AN, it looks like this is happening everyone. It is not just happening in one club.

As the quality standards decrease, I have heard an increase in complaints from everyone at the clubs. It is a sad cycle to see.

I see that management has a lot to do with the problem. They are trying to increase house fee income and results in more problems. In the short term they increase income, but in the long term they are decreasing standards. The decreasing standards are sending dancers and customers away.

I've never gone for extras. I don't think I am particularly interested, other than in a sort of morbid curiosity how one goes about it in a semi-public place. I keep thinking I should do a Block trip some time before I quit the clubs, but I am frankly not into being handled by a dancer who is "intimate" with a dozen guys a night. I'm perfectly happy with a good legal and non-health threatening grope every so often.

To get back to the original question, I think extras are ruining the strip club industry. Here's a common trend: a club isn't doing enough business so they hire more and more dancers to collect more house fees. But in order to hire that many neww girls they have to lower their quality standards, and some customers leave. Now the club can't support that many dancers so in order to make money some of the girls, often the lower quality newer hires, resort to extras, and management looks the other way because it brings in new customers. The original dancers, who are mostly their better onces, don't want to do extras so they leave. So what was once a pretty decent club with a lot of top quality dancers is now full of lower quality girls and customers seeking sex. My current club is going throught this transition and they're probably going to lose both me and their best dancer fairly soon. What was once a fairly happy and friendly place is now full of upset and complaining girls.

Do you need the risk of getting caught by a bouncer or LE?

If a dancer wanted to perform free extras in a club without asking me first, I would hope that she wouldn't and instead just ask to see me OTC. If I get intimate with a girl, I prefer some privacy.

I agree. But I have been astonished at the ability of certain dancers to be discreet.

I have had this experience, and am always amazed by the trust ont he part of the dancers that I will "do the right thing" when the tiproll comes out. However, since I believe that this trust should be encouraged, I try to be generous and considerate.

I would guess that it is usually discussed beforehand. Not that I would mind if a dancer all of the sudden did that for me.

I've been going to clubs for over 40 years and only once saw anyone ejected and it was pure chickenshit - a dancer with a super attitude was onstage and objected to the way some guy handed her a dollar and caused a stnk about it. And only once was I ever offered extras for a price, which I turned down. I've had girls do interesting and possibly illegal things several times but it was always without discussion and they never asked for additional money. The most memorable time the girl was clearly stoned or something.

My personal perspective (Not to be taken as legal advise by anyone reading this) is that the main concern of bouncers/LE is drug dealing, and they aren't prowling around looking for guys with John Thomas hanging out. The worst that could happen would be that you might be asked to leave the club by the management, which should be embarrassing. However, I've practiced law long enough that it would take much more than that to embarrass me. The other thing that could happen would be that you could be charged with public indecency, which would be a misdemeanor, that you could likely plead down to something like "disorderly conduct."

The likelihood of any of the above happening is quite small, and the dancer in question likely isn't doing this for the first time, so knows the necessary components of discretion.

To use the standard that I apply to assess the real (not paranoid) likelihood of something bad happening: when was the last time that you were in a club, and a guy got kicked out for _anything_? the only times that I've ever seen anyone kicked out of a club was for shorting a dancer on money (argument over dance count...and I knew from firsthand observation that he was wrong), and a guy who cold-cocked another patron, who was in a wheelchair...and the assailant was an off-duty cop. To further extend the analysis, when was the last time you were in a club and a patron was arrested for _anything_? When was the last time you saw a police officer in a club (including undercover who invoked his authority)?

My personal perspective (Not to be taken as legal advise by anyone reading this) is that the main concern of bouncers/LE is drug dealing, and they aren't prowling around looking for guys with John Thomas hanging out. The worst that could happen would be that you might be asked to leave the club by the management, which should be embarrassing. However, I've practiced law long enough that it would take much more than that to embarrass me. The other thing that could happen would be that you could be charged with public indecency, which would be a misdemeanor, that you could likely plead down to something like "disorderly conduct."

The likelihood of any of the above happening is quite small, and the dancer in question likely isn't doing this for the first time, so knows the necessary components of discretion.

To use the standard that I apply to assess the real (not paranoid) likelihood of something bad happening: when was the last time that you were in a club, and a guy got kicked out for _anything_? the only times that I've ever seen anyone kicked out of a club was for shorting a dancer on money (argument over dance count...and I knew from firsthand observation that he was wrong), and a guy who cold-cocked another patron, who was in a wheelchair...and the assailant was an off-duty cop. To further extend the analysis, when was the last time you were in a club and a patron was arrested for _anything_? When was the last time you saw a police officer in a club (including undercover who invoked his authority)?