Comments by chitownlawyer (page 20)

I have not found any great difference in the attractiveness of dancers on night v. day shifts. I have found that it is a lot harder to get dances, because so many dancers are tied down with regulars during the afternoon shifts. With respect to going back to work smelling of smoke...the first time I went to my favorite club during the day, the first thing I noticed was the (relative) lack of smoke. I don't know if people smoke less during the day, or just that it had been a relatively short time since the air got cleaned overnight by the HVAC (probably the latter). I don't know that you can do anything about the perfume except stay away from the dancers, which rather defeats the purpose.

Kyle---Please disregard the above..I had you mistaken for someone else.

For me, a long process. FIrst, I find a dancer I find attractive while she is on stage, tip her at least $5, then ask her to look me up when she is done with her set. Assuming that she follows up (which they almost always do), I talk with her to see what her personality is like. If that is not pleasing to me, I find a way to get away from her, which may involve some money, depending on how long we talked. If she has a nice personality, we get a couch dance. My main focus here is on contact. My usual club is fairly high contact, and any dancer who does not follow that pattern is out. If the couch dance is good, I then take her to VIP. This a long process (and possible because, although I don't go to sc's all that often, when I do, it is generally for 5-6 hours). However, it has generally succeeded in getting me good dances, and when I haven't followed it, I have sometimes been disappointed. Although I don't relish the money I lose if I have a bad VIP, the real cost of a bad VIP is not financial but opportunity cost....you're stuck in VIP with a bad (or worse, mediocre) dancer, while you could be out on the floor looking for a worthwhile dancer. If I dancer goes bad on me in VIP, I would rather it happen soon and spectacularly, so you know to pull the plug. If a dancer is only mediocre, you are tempted to keep with her longer, hoping against hope that she will "turn good.' Fortunately, after about 2 1/2 years going to the same club, I generally can find, on any day and during any shift, 2-3 dancers that I have "pre-qualified." When I go through the whole process now, it is generally because I see a dancer who seems particularly attractive physically, or who seems to have a personality along the "GFE" lines. An advantage of going to the same club is that some dancers I know will refer another dancer to me if the dancer that I know is tied up. These "dancer referrals" have a high rate of success.

Strip Shopper: I suppose steps 1 and 2 have to do with finding a club that will be congenial to your goals. Unfortuantely, I can't offer any guidance here. For some reason, I have just always had good luck with finding clubs that perform in line with my expectations. In fact, I found my current favorite club by accident, while I got lost in (what was then to me) a strange city, and couldn't find the club that I was looking for. Strangely enough, I have since found out that the club I was looking for was all air, and the one I stumbled onto is a great time...

StripShopper: Steps 4-12 I agree with entirely. I don't quite understand what the "3 Second test" involves--please clarify. I am somewhat spoiled because I go to a fairly "high contact" club. Therefore, I don't need to find a "rule breaker." The main stream of dancers are more than willing to provide what I am looking for (high contact, but not necessarily extras). Therefore, I am not really trying to find a "rule breaker" so much as weed out that dancer who might be more prudish/restrictive than the norm. I do this as part of the step involving the couch dance. If a dancer does not let me touch her boobs during a couch dance, for example, I know that she will not let me do so during a VIP. We may be saying the same thing in a different way.

No. In fact, most dancers have tried to encourage it explicitly (I'm gonna make you cum!" at the beginning of the dance), or implicitly (telling me, "you have to give me an extra tip if I make you cum.") I have certainly never been embarrassed, scolded, or otherwise discouraged.

I've often had the experience of "some" contact leading to more contact. I have never had the experience of "no" contact leading to "any" contact

Super, everybody on the board was going along with the program quite nicely...then you intruded with ugly reality. I wonder how one can reduce the chances of something like that happening? If, purely hypothetically, someone (say, a friend of mine), had have known a (hypothetical, of course) dancer for about a year and a half, from her dancing at the same club, I wonder if a situation like that would be less likely to end up homicidal (or unpleasant in some other way) than one where someone (for example, a friend of mine) went somewhere with a dancer that he had just met?

At the risk of sounding sanctimonious, I really never wanted to put that much energy into a trip to a strip club, so I've never bs'ed a dancer. I may not answer every question that is put to me, but I don't use aliases, make up stories about who I am, why I am there, where I am from etc. But I may just be a lot lazier than other PL's.

FONDL, you took the words right out of my mouth. In fact, since I don't mind the way that the VIP room at Brad's is set up, I consider it to be the perfect club. Now I'm really looking forward to an upcoming visit...

doesn't the federal law supercede state law? I don't understand how a state can have a law that is contrary to what the US constitution supposedly says. I would think that a US Supreme Court ruling would override state constitions. A state constitution can give more freedoms than the federal constitution, and in that respect will be upheld. Example: The U.S. Constitution has been interpreted as permitting capital punishment. However, about twelve states abolish capital punishment in their own Constitutions. Therefore, prosecutors in those states cannot obtain the death penalty, although the federal constitution is OK with it. A state constitution can grant more freedoms to the people than the federal constitution (such as the right to be free from certain takings of private property), but cannot take away freedoms that are provided for in the U.S. Constitution. If the direction of liberties went the other way...for example, if the Supreme Court had interpreted the 14th Amendment to forbid the taking of private property for mixed public/private purposes, then the States could not have violated that. To me, as a traditional "small government" Republican, this ruling is absolutely chilling. I don't understand the advantage, in terms of personal liberties, of having a majority Republican court, if this is the result. I thought that Republicanism/conservatism stood for suspicion of the exercise of government power, and restrictions on same for the benefit of personal liberties.

I have a pretty well-rounded education, between my college degree and law school, but I also know that effective communication means that the parties need to meet on common ground. I appreciate Twain as much as anyone (he wrote a hilarious piece on the merits of masturbation), but I would no more spring him on someone I had just met than a would pull out a pad and pencil and ask someone to help me with this "really bitching chi-square probability analysis." I have met dancers with a thorough grounding in all the aspects of Western civilization, and I have met dancers who would struggle to get through this week's edition of _People._ This is also true of people that I have met outside of strip clubs. I think that, in any context, you need to size up the person that you are talking to, and tailor your communications accordingly. If you don't do that, you probably will get teased or mocked occasionally, and you may deserve it.

By the way, that's "non-contact", not "non-contract." Guess who's at the office today?

Actually, in looking over these responses, I've figured out a better solution...make a flight connection through my favorite SC (strip club, not South Carolina, although I know those are synonymous to some people reading this) town, with a layover of 5-6 hours. That will give me time to get in a visit to a club where the prospects are favorable, and certainly more inviting than Atlanta. I'll spend my evening in Atlanta concentrating on other points of interest. I don't go to strip clubs looking to get laid, but to me, going to a no-touch strip club is like going to a no-eat restaurant. I looked at the website for Cheetah's, and I would say that my definition of one of the inner circles of Hell would be a place that you could look at women like that naked...but not touch them. I think I'm spoiled from my favorite club. How depressing...I wonder how this sorry state of affairs in Atlanta came to be? Let's hope that it is not a trend. For myself, it makes me happy to be a midwesterner.

If you were into nasty, uninhibited girls...Courtney Love. Not something you would brag about to your friends later, but definitely fun at the time.

a. 75% b. 15% (I get more "respectful vibes" from the waitresses and bouncers. Maybe they have more practice)

No, just because a dancer has low regard for me does not mean that she is correct. I don't personalize the transaction. I get what I am looking for. I'm not buying respect, so I don't feel cheated when I don't get it.

I agree with FONDL. Generally, when I have been made aware of the availiability of extras, it has been at clubs that I had been patronizing for a long period of time, and most of the dancers at least recognized me, if they did not know me. Otherwise, I think there is always a concern that you are LE. However, if you have gone into the club on several occasions, you are most likely not LE, or if LE, and you aren't know to have busted anyone, you are too incompetent to be much of a threat. I understand that some clubs are basically undercover bordellos, but I have never been in one. In the clubs I have frequented, there is simply no substitute for being known as a regular. I have no experience with the idea of being offered, on a commercial or gratuitous basis, extras at a club that I was in for the first or second, or evern third, time. But maybe I have led a sheltered life....

I guess I'd get out the old stamp collection. Like FONDL, I fell into the hobby as something to do while out of town on business, and to this day, I never go to strip clubs while I am in my home town. However, occasionally, my "out of town" business IS going to a strip club. Thank God my favorite club is 200 miles from home and not 1500 miles. Of course, air fares are pretty cheap these days...

I've had more offers for OTC than for extras, although I don't go looking for either. In fact, I would not bring the subject up with a dancer even if I were interested, because some of those bouncers are pretty big. I have only veered into extras territory in the club on a couple of occasions, and each time there was no verbal proposal one way or the other... the dancer just took the initiative. OTC is difficult territory, primarily because of security issues involved, and partly due to my paranoia. However, I don't see how anyone with any concern for his safety could justify taking a dancer to his home, or going home with a dancer he just met. Way too much potential for a set-up.

As a lawyer, a lot of people nail me on 1) and 2), but generally give the the benefit of the doubt on 3).

Last night I went into VIP with a dancer who says she is 19, and I tend to believe her. It's hard to say who is the oldest, because there are some rough types whose physical appearance far outstrips their chronological age. I was once assaulted by a snaggle toothed, wrinkly, worn-out looking dancer (I told this story on the thread about getting rid of unwanted dancers). I put her at 50 or so and was shocked when a dancer friend of mine told me that she was 36. I assumed that she was someone who had been good-looking at the start of her career, but had hung on for too long. Then my friend told me that the old-looking girl had been hired only a few months earlier (and has since been fired). I can't imagine what management was thinking of when they hired her, unless they figure they need to give some outlet for every possible taste that men might have, regardless of how rarely occurring. It reminds me of the old joke (too long to go into here) about the homesick trucker who goes into a Nevada whorehouse and asks for the oldest, ugliest, most disagreeable, bitchy-est girl that they have, because it will remind him of home.

WIth regard to the original question posed: What is high contact, and where do you get it....I have what is probably a discouraging answer (at least to the second question). As to the first, I consider high contact to be unlimited touching any where but the kitty, sucking boobs, and the dancer feeling up the little guy through the pants, and kissing him through the pants. With respect to where/how to get it...my experience is that it is based on being a regular..someone that the dancers at least recognize, and preferably know, and know not to be LE. Therefore, like so many other things in life, the road to high contact is paved with hard (and I do mean HARD) work..you have to get to know the dancers over time. I have found that sontact with dancers is, in some ways, like relationships with women outside the club....as far as close contact goes, you tend to build up over time. I have found that once I start to get high contact dances with one girl, they tend to stay high contact over multiple visits. I know that some people have had the experience of some clubs just being overall high contact. However, my experience has been that, if high contact is your goal, you should go to a club where it is at least a possibility, get to be known over time to a couple of the dancers that you find attractive and seem to "click" with, and the contact will come over time. I never go into a new club expecting high contact immediately, since that generally hasnt' happened to me. (There was that one club in Houston...but LE shut it down. I guess there's a lesson in that.)

Yoda: I defer to your experience, but mine has been different, in that I have met some interesting young dancers. However, as a general principle, there is little more disappointing about a strip club experience than finding a beautiful dancer with no personality. Twenty years ago I wouldn't have cared about this, but twenty years ago I was in law school and too broke to go to strip clubs, so I guess that is sort of an academic point....

Yoda: I defer to your experience, but mine has been different, in that I have met some interesting young dancers. However, as a general principle, there is little more disappointing about a strip club experience than finding a beautiful dancer with no personality. Twenty years ago I wouldn't have cared about this, but twenty years ago I was in law school and too broke to go to strip clubs, so I guess that is sort of an academic point....