discussion comment
16 years ago
I agree with david, I find the kissing thing to be off the menu, it happened to me only one time. And I can't tell if it's just too personal for them, or if it is a health issue. Cold sores are very nasty and if they caught one it would probably mean no work for 2 weeks (I don't think anyone would be interested in dancing with a stripper with a nasty cold-sore. If it's a personal/attraction thing, I find it funny how some dancers/escorts will allow FS for $'s and not find FS too "personal", and take the kissing off the menu with no negotiation.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I have a theory on FONDL's quality comment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but years ago (10 say) weren't clubs primarily just for stripping and looking and not all of the contact lap-dance stuff that goes on today? I was only a casual attender back then. If that's correct, my theory is that the additional contact lap-dance business that seems to me to be more popular today has driven out the high-quality dancer that only wants to be paid for stripping, not contact lapping, and opened up the business to the lower quality dancer that is more willing to put up with the contact to get paid $30 for 3 minutes of work.
discussion comment
16 years ago
FONDL, I'm with you on last string but clubs I go to have girls that stay with the club for 2-3 years and after multiple visits, LD's, drinks, conversations about their outside life, etc with dancers over several years they no longer feel like strangers, they start to feel like the girl you wanted as a girlfriend 30 yrs ago. That's when I find it hard to resist.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Tessie, use and trust the eye-contact or body language approach. It's the primary communication I use. If I'm not interested I intentionally look or move away. But FYI if they don't pick up on a "not interested" signal I will sometimes get a little testy because I know they know the signal but decide to force a conversation anyway.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Im with FONDL, there is no right or wrong method, and depending on my mood I will ask, or I will do a test run and see where it goes.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Arnie's in Harvey, Ill
discussion comment
17 years ago
I'm curious, where are FS strip clubs in Canada?
discussion comment
17 years ago
Wondergrl - my advise is to work in a club during the day (1-7PM). Daytime customers are usually older professional men who take the hobby seriously. Next after you learn the ropes you can venture out into the nighttime side of the business - the younger crowd, faster atmosphere, more booze, and more security/police issues.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I believe the premium they make is because clubs can provide legal prostitution for customers. Prostitution is technically touching breasts, legs, butt, genitals, etc to cause sexual arousal for the exchange of money. Strip clubs are the only "safe" place to engage in this act without fear of being arrested, especially for the customer. It's never advertised that you get this service in clubs, but look around this site and you can see this is the expectation of almost all of the members here. Have you ever heard of a customer being arrested for getting carried away in a club? No, because it is safe for us and I never have to worry about making that embarrassing call home. Strippers can be arrested, but usually don't as long as the touching does not include FS or BJ, etc, and the club provides a perfect place for them to participate in good money business without worrying about security and being able to control mileage to their liking. Sure one can get more action from an escort for the same amount of money, but with that luxury carries considerable additional risks legal, security, unknowns, etc.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I also see this cycle constantly. I always expect simple ups & downs for the first 2-4 months of getting to know a dancer. Over this time period I like to keep David's approach, treat all dancers all the same, no favorites, and don't expect them to treat you different. Within 3 months the normal ones will appreciate your business and give you consistent performance.
The OTC issue creates a considerable amount of stress because it invites emotions, pressure, job & personal risk, and many other unknowns into the relationship. It takes a very strong relationship to pull it off, especially if it is a planned event, because the tendency is to cancel at the last minute. If it is spontaneous it is a lot easier to deal with the issues. Many months ago i wrote a string stating the OTC invite should only be attempted after 6-12 months of knowing each other, and I continue to feel it is the best method.
FONDL You answered your own question in a string several months ago, stating most dancers are very mature about some things and immature about others.
I never show negative emotions or anger to dancers, I find it scares them. I never send them negative text messages or emails. I NEVER judge them to their face or to coworkers. My attitude is this is all for fun and life is too short to be mad. If they dissapoint me, I simply smile and move on. They eventually learn their lesson without me making an emotion stand and they will eventually come back at a later date with a much improved and more consistent attitude.
One time by accident I disrespected a dancer, I realized it a week later, and I went back to the club the next week and apologized to her. She was so surprised I apologized I made her cry. To this day she treats me with the up-most respect.
discussion comment
17 years ago
A gift card is the perfect gift for the occasion. This year I bought my ATF an IPOD, cuz she gave me the hint.
Last year at a club I go to this wacky guy bought every dancer, the bouncers, and all the bartenders/waitresses gift cards, and his ATF a fox coat. It was the talk of the club for several weeks.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Book, I think I agree, but in my experience (and in my location) you will pay a stripper about $1000-$3000 over 2-4 months to get the chance for an OTC, or, you can spend about the same $'s screening escorts. For example, for $2000 you can hire 4 escorts at 1 hour each, just as a 'meet and greet" session and hopefully you will find one you like.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I don't get involved in or even think about SS anymore, I never find it to be an issue. I find strippers use it mostly on inexperienced customers, similar to how used car salesmen use their lines on inexperienced car shoppers. The women I do business with know within 5 minutes of conversation that I am not interested in cheap talk stripper lines, and they better come up with something interesting, original and truthful if they want a chance for my entertainment dollars. Some woman can't have this type of conversation and they quickly move on to easier prey.
But for the majority of customers I suppose these lines are a necessary evil to survive in this business. I know a few people in life, like my wife, that have a very difficult time telling a lie or stretching the truth. These people would find it difficult to survive in this business.
discussion comment
17 years ago
After 7 years of SC-ing I have this experience (as described by bones above) on almost all LP occasions. Before doing significant business with dancers, I screen them by asking them if they enjoy this experience, and if yes, I agree to do business with them. But equally important I also treat them very well by being very gentle and affectionate with them before, during, and after the dance. I make it clear to them that I am interested in their experience and enjoyment as much as I am in mine.
This experience is the next best thing to OTC and/or being allowed to touch the kitty, which most dancers would enjoy but prefer not to allow for fear of losing their job if caught by the bouncer.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Since dancers have "rules" to never date men that hang out in clubs, we should adopt the rule to never marry girls that work in them. Let the non-clubbers marry them, that's who the dancers really want in their lives anyway. Remember, dancers view us as scum compared to all of the "normal" guys that don't go to the clubs. Now I'm starting to think and write like David999..., sorry dude I'm stealing your thunder.
Last, I recall one of FONDL's old posts, strippers are interesting because they are very mature in some aspects of their life and very immature in other aspects. That feature makes them very fun and interesting to socialize with, but very dangerous to live with.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Two times I was with woman that experienced this problem, and they told me it had something to do with blood flow or blood rushing from her head to her mid section during foreplay while becoming sexual excited. I didn't hang around with them long enough to find out if this was the final medical conclusion or not.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I'm casting for a movie I'm planning to shoot called "Strippers Gone Wild"
discussion comment
17 years ago
I believe there is another more important variable involved, how many months/years in the business. A young stripper only on the business 2-3 months is a waste of time. In my opinion it takes 3-6 months for her to learn how to enjoy her experience with her customers instead of just tolerate it. But after she has been in the business over 3 years in my experience all of her motions and moves are programmed into her, and little or none of it is natural or a reaction to her experience. So I vote between 22 and 30, but between 6 months and 3 years of experience.
discussion comment
17 years ago
This law will help clubs because it will serve to keep my money flowing in. Presently i am limited to 60-90 minutes in the club unless I want to go home smelling like a smokestack and explain why I was in a smoke filled bar.
discussion comment
17 years ago
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minnowAny place that interests me.
Where I go, the house gets a 20% better cut for the champ room (taking money away from the dancer compared to the same amount of money spent in the standard room), so no motivation for the dancer to upsell to go to it.
discussion comment
17 years ago
In my opinion, a customer goes to a club with the intent to spend $90, will buy 3 dances if they are $30 each, or 9 if they are $10 each. The difference is if they are $30 each only one dancer will get the cash, and if they are $10 each 2 or 3 dancers will get the cash. The dancer getting the $90 will survive in the business for another month, but the 3 dancers making $20 or $30 each will soon leave the business. Thus, I see prices staying high and the less motivated and average looking dancers leaving the business.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Per her suggestions of "chance of more OTC time" and "wont get any action for free" I think she expects $1000 for dinner and some sex if he gives her a big tip, like probably another $1000.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I am confused about the posts concerning herpes. I know herpes 1 is a sore on the mouth. I know Herpes 2 is a sore on the genital. So if a provider has a herpes 2 genital sore and a customer makes contact with it with their mouth, what is at risk? Is the customer in risk of herpes 1 or 2 on the mouth, or, possibly is their no risk since herpes 2 does not spread from a genital to the mouth?
I wonder because I notice on the escort sites (TER) the providers usually require condoms during oral on customers, implying they are concerned about pick-up of herpes 2 to their mouth, but I almost NEVER read about any customers being concerned about DATY, implying that customers see no risk of picking up herpes 2 from a provider into their mouth as either herpes 1 or 2 in their mouth.
discussion comment
17 years ago
David9999: I understand your comment but in my experience I just don't see becoming a prick being the key to success with women. I have tried it myself and failed. Maybe you can enlighten us on some experience of being a prick that has worked consistently for you? I typically see women attracted to men for 3 other reasons other than bad attitude, such as great looks, a lot of money, or sense of humor. Next, if a man has outstanding qualities in any of these 3 areas, he can also afford to have a poor attitude or be a prick and get away with it, because the women will tolerate it to get the other quality they want. I do not have outstanding qualities in 2 out of 3, thus I feel I am always viewed by beautiful women as below average, except of course when I go to a club with my $'s, now I notice I can buy almost anything I want.
But concerning the question about strippers or escorts enjoying their customers, isn't this where the term YMMV evolves from? Her enjoyment can be directly measured by the mileage you receive in return. By the way, that's exactly how my relationships with my ex-girlfriends and my wife goes also, so it makes sense that this applies to strippers and escorts also.
I believe the exception are the strippers and escorts that do not belong in the business because they are only in it for the money. To be successful in these businesses for a reasonable period of time (stripping and escorting) you should enjoy the task of pleasing other people. A parallel example are people that work in medical care, these people must enjoy and receive pleasure from the task of taking care of and pleasing other people. If they didn't, they would eventually be very unhappy and not last long in their profession. I am not one of these people, I do not enjoy taking care of others, so I could never be a doctor, nurse, etc. Another example is Asian women, who are taught/conditioned from the time they are young that their role in life is to please men (ie, Geisha).
When I select women to do business with, I specifically look for women that have this quality of receiving enjoyment from pleasing people. It is also a good quality to look for in a wife. I notice young women in nursing school seem to adjust very well and quickly into stripping because it fits their personality. The women you are usually quoting on the pink site are the opposite, and in general have no natural qualities in their personality to make them be good strippers or escorts other than good looks. If you read escort ads you will find many woman advertise this quality of seeking the enjoyment of pleasing men, and it is not all BS (or SS or ES) because they know having this quality makes them unique and breaks them apart from the competition.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Smiling is an important part of body language. I find it to be the body language that dancers watch the most when they judge if they should attempt to do business with you or to figure out if you enjoyed their service and if you will be coming back for more. I always get a reaction out of my ATF if I don't smile after the dances or if I act like my mind has wondered off somewhere else. If I don't want to do business with a dancer, I either don't smile or I force one and it works about the same to tell them to go away.