discussion comment
15 years ago
I suppose it's just another sign of signaling that she's not an ordinary dancer, i.e. not an air dance type, basically saying she's "bad" and whatever you like is probably available, not just that. Reminds me of the discussion topic on here a while back about what the different ways a dancer touches herself signals to a customer.
I've think we've probably seen Clubber's Brazilian dancer in a porm movie!
discussion comment
16 years ago
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minnowAny place that interests me.
ATF is a term of convenience. But why get so philosophical about it. If you've got a favorite dancer you spend money on, tip rail or VIP, on a repeat basis, that's OK. If you're fucking somebody, then I think you have a stripper "friend" or to be even more formal about it, a stripper "girlfriend," depending on what else you do together. ATF used to be an innocent term, now it's invested with all this potential complication. Better to get back to simplicity.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Most (no all) of the "lesbian" dancers I've met are really bi and don't qualify for the other label. Therefore they shift gears rather easily. Don't take too much credit for the inevitable, Shadowcat!
discussion comment
16 years ago
Two scenarios for the unexpected gift: 1) She's simply trying to set you up for repeat business. Whether the comment that went with it is true or not doesn't matter, it was a business decision to do it. You either put her in a comfort zone, which is good, or you are very predictabale, in her mind, which makes her a good marketer.
2) Second scenario, she was party drunk or high and won't remember it the next day.
I've seen/experienced both. Or maybe she just wanted to meet your Mr Happy.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Yea, sex is sometimes a part of the conversation, but maybe that's just for get-acquainted. But after that. Everything is on the table for discussion. I've talked with dancers wbout their life, their kids, their house, their car, their father, what food they like, politics--most anything you would talk to anyone else about. Of course, you have to do some weeding out to have those conversations. For best service, get to know someone. Let them know you.
discussion comment
16 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
The original "straight talker."
discussion comment
16 years ago
Boomer37, you're right. Not everyone has the luxury of ultimate extras in a strip club. So in those cases, you're either prepared or you're not. To me, it doesn't matter. But if it does happen, you need to dress accordingly to be less noticable. The condom would be awkward. But I do know of a few places where it is encouraged to where them.
Evilcyn, love ya. I seem to remember you going bonkers once in your club when someone found a condom on the floor of the VIP!
discussion comment
16 years ago
I have a dancer friend who is 34 and burned out from the drinking and the life. Because of the cash flow she's been reluctant to quit, and because she works at something that burned her out, she compensates by drinking way through the day to make the bad time a good one. Didn't work for her . Won't work for most anyone else either. She's now working a more normal job. Sos leonard3, the answer is--it varies, but it will come during the 30-something decade for most. In my observation, it boils down to a state of mind issue.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I don't like programmed response, and DJs urging the audience to applaud the performer is just that--and annoying. The other thing that bothers me about clapping is that it seems to be a throwback to burlesque shows where you were expected to clap for each performer because you didn't tip anyone. Today, burlesque is dead, but strip clubs have replaced burlelsque and tipping has replaced clapping. If you liked the performance--tip her. She might appreciate that more than a round of applause. But otherwise, if you want to clap, it's a personal thing.
discussion comment
16 years ago
The oldest dancers I know are about 41/42 respectively. and they have just retired. One still looks outstanding with super long legs and a shapely figure. Bollt-on boobs detracdt from her appearance, not because they are poorly done, but because they are simply not needed. The other is still shapely but constantly fighting the consequences of changing metabolism on the body. (How's that for being kind?) My former ATF and true life friend was 37. Point is, if they are still appealing, who are we to say stop. If they are showing the signs of getting way too old, then they should reconsider their priorities and/or someone should kindly sugggest that they aren't competitive anymore. But that's not age, it's more attitude and self-discipline.
Personally, I think there is a need for the 30 something dancer who understands life better, can hold a more well rounded conversation, knows how how to flirt and likewise how to please a man. The real young ones can't do that.
discussion comment
16 years ago
The only "thrill" is seeing in the flesh what was previously only available on screen. Other than that, they have been underwhelming from my point of view. They dance too fast, put too much emphasis on outfits and acrbotics, and pitch promo stuff to the point of annoyance (not to mention that their appearance seems to give license to obnoxious DJs to rise to new levels of stupidity as they try to act as both MCs and shills. All that on top of the cautious attitude mentioned previously, and they add up to a bad imvestment. Put any regular dancer in those feature shoes (absent the notoriety and we'd be criticizing her performance and downrating the club. Would I/do I still go? Only if it's day shift and I could do it on the job (which means hardly ever). Otherwise, I wouldn't want to give up down time for them.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Well, I think they are human beings, so they can take off from there. I try not to be condescending about strippers, despite what one might think about various comments posted here.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Interesting--we al se the same things sometimes. The girls who like to party--there are several categories of them. Most of them are like what's described above. Don't care about money, don't work too hard, they just don't have anything better to do so they hang at the club with their work friends and customers. It's the type of party that distinguishes them. Some are drinkers and alcoholics. Some are exhibitionists and care more how they look and whether they are geting looked at than anything else.
Some are into drugs. Most in the first category aren't into making you happy, that is, they don't have anything better to do so they aren't really working for the money--avoid thjem if possible. The drinkers seem to be the most accommodating (of this general category) and the most fun assuming you can get to them before they are "gone."
discussion comment
16 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Wow, the ideal strip club--two answers.
1) In a way, it already exists in an imperfect way, the Mitchell Brothers O'Farrel Street Theater in San Francisco. An emporium of strippers, skin, toys, fantasy rooms, porn, sex, girl-girl shows, themed shows, sex, did I forget to say sex? But it can be very expensive if you want to play all night. No bar service is available and only limited n.a. beverages. Most of the fun is metered and you pay for time before you pay the girl. Sound crazy? It is. But you can simply pay the entrance fee and walk around and watch if you're not going to participate-which would be hard to do. Every SC lover should try it once.
2) Now, if I were building from scratch with my own preferences:
First, no cover charge. Everyone would know your name if you were a regular and would be required to greet you with a hello Mr. ____
when you arrived. It would be a clean place but not overly pretentious. Subdued lighting on the main floor, dark corners. But enough light around the stage area so you can see the dancers. No mirrors on the walls, no flashy lights. No obnoxious DJ. The music would be automated and arranged by prior selection of the dancers. It wouldn't be too loud and would be themed to match the demographic mix of the majority of customers. Customers would have the option of preselecting songs for their ATFs to dance to. There would be a bar with only women bartenders and they would be hot. And they would be required to flirt with you and dance with you for tips at the bar. In other words--no more hot bartenders we can't have. Dancer and customer drinks would be priced the same (actually they should be free, but I'm trying to stay a litle real here).
There would be modestly priced theme rooms for private shows and dances, say for about $25 to the house and $15 /dance to the girl+tip for good service and would feature the following:
-customer choice of traditional private lap dance room with chairs or room with couches, plus
-bed dance room
-girl-girl/toy show
-massage theme room
-street clothes to dancewear room show
-shaving show
-build your own fantasy room
-there would be dial-a-meter lap dances so you could vary the intensity of the contact to suit your mood or preference. (No more grind it till it falls off on purpose dancers.)
There would be no cameras.
Extras would be the norm but not required. It's always customer/dancer choice.
Any dancer badmouthing another dancer would be warned once, twice and then asked to leave. Dancers wold have lockers, showers, taning beds and large, clean dressing rooms.
The words "wana dance" would be banned from the language within the first three minutes of a dancer meeting a customer.
Dancers would be required to learn how to flirt.
Dancer schedules would be prominently posted in the lobby.
No bouncers in private dance area.
No shot girls.
No men's rom atendant, but al the niceties they provide would be available as a courtesy in the lobby.
There would be a hostess who would ensure al dancers worked and mingled with customers and would find a dancer you were loking for.
There would be a master of ceremonies, not a DJ, who would provide some context about dancers and what's going on, but in a subtle way, with humor and with respect for customers and dancers.
There would be no dancers under 21. The would be no overly skiny girls. There would be no overweight girls. There would be a topless stage and a nude stage. Every girl would be required to cycle around to each per set.
Monopolizing by regulars for all night would be prohibited but time allowances wold be ensured for customers and their ATFs.
The club would be operated like a mutual insurance company-if you come enough you own a piece of the pie. (hmmm)
discussion comment
16 years ago
She's not an escort, so fairnes can't be judged in a comparative manner to that. She is a dancer you've done business with OTC before. In that context, fair is what you feel you can afford, are willing to pay and she feels comfortable accepting. So if it feels right, that's it. If it feels wrong, you change it. The same options apply for her as well. Remember, there is the substantial benefit of a fully paid mini-vacation involved with this as well. But since you've closed the deal, it seems your judgment was sound to begin with. To assume you should have to compensate her as you would an escort for a 24/7 arangement might be viewed as insulting depending on your relationship--given the fact that she is still a dancer and not an escort, regardles of any OTC.
discussion comment
16 years ago
We're not psychologits, but we're obviously sensing individuals with opinions. I agree with Founder and Quimby. Life IS short. So, take some risks, follow your heart, live on the edge if you like it, just dopn't fal off, don't fantasize-live! AND, it doesn't hurt to try and talk about things -- but only in a disarming way. Create the wrong impresion and you could end things with only a question.
discussion comment
16 years ago
More often than not, it's because the wife is bi-curious. At least that's the case with people I know. Frankly, it's a turn on for me. Maybe that's because I've had bi-curious and bi girlfriends. Extending this out, admit it, most of us like the girl-girl shows, right? I know I do.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I never met anyone in government (politician, staffer, judge,appointee,etc.) that didn't have a plan to spend someone else's money or to find a segment they could tax with the least amount of uproar. The smaller the government the better. That way we can keep our eye on things and follow what's left of our money. Government doesn't solve problems, people solve problems, mostly on their own or through competition and the market. In fact, it's the government-is-the -answer-types that got various levels of government on the backs of strip clubs. We always have to fightg for our liberty and that begins with protecting our money and shielding it from more taxes. Now pardon me while I step off my soap box.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Politicians are a necessary evil. Strippers are a necessary good. It's simple.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I'm always amazed at the petty self-righteousness and judgmentalism that crops up when discussing the adult provider industry (in whatever form). What people choose to do for a living is their own business. Are we less judgmental of those who do this short term for the money (e.g. to pay for college or a quick start to the good life)? It seems that some guys are. But we shouldn't be any more critical of anyone who chooses provider work over welfare or provider work over giving up on life in general. They are paying their own way and trying not to be a burden on society. And if a sister or daughter did it out of CHOICE, that's their business-and probably more a reflection of someone else failing them that a flaw in their characters. Re the class thing-one of the things I like about this hobby is that it can be so egalitarian. It's part of the reality-meets-fantasy game we play. And we can choose to play it on two levels--we can get to know someone or we can choose to participate with the guy's version of "wanna dance?" and then move on. It's all OK. So I agree with the original post, why beat up on people who've been good to us?
discussion comment
16 years ago
It's a fine line we walk between fun and philosophical!
discussion comment
16 years ago
Bingo, that's right. I try to pass on good advice based on experience, but that doesn't mean I always follow it. I'll always go for the gusto if I think I have a chance.
discussion comment
16 years ago
There probably isn't a national recesion, but the Midwest/rustbelt is hurting more than other places. In NE Ohio strip clubs have far fewer customers than previously and the dancers are having trouble making ends meet with the corresponding decline in income. Some do better than others because they work harder or are more creative. So mileage is up, cautiously, as the reward for patrons who still come out. These trends were very evident long before the recent laws you've heard people talk about.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Go for the sure thing, because, after al, we like it. But I would still pursue the other one to se what happens. might be fun. The chase is sometimes more fun than the capture. Of course, she may be saying the same thing.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Re 'it's sad.' I'm convinced that strippers in general (I'm sure there are many exceptions) choose to do what they do because of three things:
1) they live in "the moment" and can't make long-range plans for themselves or their families. (There are exceptions to this, but they eventually leave the business.)
2) Most don't have a decent/well-employed/or educated man in their lives.
3) or, they are supporting a drug habit.
(It used to be that many were working their way through school, but that has changed so much that I now believe it's statistically insignificant.)
Change one or more of the above variables and their lives change vary quickly. Now, we all benefit from this. So, is it sad--not really, it's just reality and they are simply trying to make a living. What's sad is if they don't have a Plan B or if people like us don't remind them to get one.