How Long & How Often To Get to ATF Status.
minnow
Any place that interests me.
Myself, I don't give too much thought to term ATF. As I travel a lot, there are 8-10 clubs nationwide where I am at least fairly confident that I could walk in and have some dancer recognize me. There are a couple where I've been averaging monthly visits for over 5 yrs, some a sporadic 4-10 visits a year for over a decade, 1 where I managed 6 visits in recent 2 mo. period, and everything in between. I'm not always able, to, say , go to "regular" club the 2nd Tuesday of every month, but with random visits can get better diversity of dancers.
Thus dancers can move up or down on "depth chart" depending on new dancers that I meet on different days(and shifts). Your thoughts & experiences..........
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But a lot of guys here don't want to do that. Why? Because they want to obfuscate the reality of what is happening between them and the dancers -- which is largely "nothing". If they were honest (and especially, if they were honest with themselves), the guys would admit that with a lot of the dancers they never get any sex; they pay for a lot of dances that are "high contact" (which is a eupehmism for getting their cocks rubbed through their pants, or at best, a handjob); and while they would jump at the chance to fuck one of these girls, it often never happens.
I think a lot of guys use this term as a pseudo-expression to refer to some dancer they wish was their "girlfriend," but they know they can't really call her their girlfriend because they are paying her money (and she really thinks of him as her customer). I think the guys do this because they don't have girlfriends or wives in real life, and they use strippers as substitute girlfriends. (How many guys on this site are married and/or have a live in girlfriend? I bet it's a minority. And of the single guys, how many are getting laid even once a week? Again, I bet it's a minority. There's something wrong here.)
Personally, I think it's pathetic. If you cannot get a girlfriend in real life, you should not try to use sex workers as substitutes for girlfriends. And if a sex worker isn't your girlfriend, then you shouldn't fudge the issue by calling her your ATF.
There are stippers I regularly see in the clubs; there are strippers I have only seen a few times, but we've fucked in the club; and there is currently a stripper I fuck on a regular basis. But none of them are "girlfriends" and none of them are ATFs. They are strippers I pay for sex, and I am one of their customers. That's all. I don't kid myself into thinking there is more to the "relationship," and I don't want more, because I already have a wife, and don't want a girlfriend. And I don't want an ATF either.
Remember the song "Who's making love to your old lady while you are out making love?" If your marrage is a great as you say, you need to be concerned.
As for your comments about my marriage, obviously, you are speaking from ignorance, so your comments cannot be taken seriously. However, I am continually amazed by how judgmental some (not all) of the guys on this site are about sleeping around. Somehow it's ok to go to a tittie bar and pay girls to grind on your lap, but it's immoral to sleep around? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.
nj-fan, until you can download your "golden wedding band award" from www.happilymarriedmenofamerica.com into tuscl blog, I still see posters on equal height horses, and I still smell horseshit and hear shattering glass when I read your posts.
ATF = all time favorite
There are no bars "relationship" wise or sex wise in the definition. The term just means "favorite".
People are going to have different criteria for a girl to become a favorite. For some, the girl's gonna have to fuck him. For others not fuck him, but call him on the phone to babble once in a while. Some could care less about "relationship"ness and are just looking for hot NSA sex. Some will also, as you say, want surogate girlfriends. So will want blondes, so brunettes, some not care. But it doesn't matter. We will still have our favorites.
So please don't tell us what we can and cannot talk about. (And I am must say I am rather surprised that you are being so shallow here, given your good insights on other topics.)
You can insult me (or my marriage) all you want. It doesn't phase me, because you've never met me or my wife.
Neither poster deals with the point I made: "ATF" is a meaningless term, which is used on this site to refer to anything from a dancer someone sees in the club, to a fuck buddy, and everything in between. Neither post deals with the further point, that the "ATF" label is used to obfuscate the reality of what is happening (or not happening) in the patron's dealings with the stripper. And, last but not least, neither post deals with the underlying issue, which in my view is that some patrons use stripclubs as substitutes for real relationships with the opposite sex.
The fact that (some) people howl loudly when those points are made tells me a nerve has been struck. You can deny all you want that there are PLs on this site looking for a girlfriend (oh, I mean an "ATF") in the strip club, but your denials won't change reality.
I know the "ATF" concept is a sacred cow on this site. Some sacred cows deserve to be attacked. This is one of them.
"that the 'ATF' label is used to obfuscate the reality of what is happening (or not happening) in the patron's dealings with the stripper."
Are you a mind reader now like that idiot clubber?? I don't think so njscfan...we don't have to live by your rules, you hypocrite.
I don't happen to have an ATF, but if someone else wants to use the term (however it means to them or how it is *defined* on this site)...leave them alone about it! Who gives a flying fuck if the term means nothing to you, then don't use it.
ShotDisc: I'll try to ignore your personal insults as well. Even your own post shows ATF is a term of such elasticity as to be meaningless. Which is why, by the way, notwithstanding your post, there are many guys on this site who claim to have had more than one ATF. (Sort of defeats your definition, doesn't it?) I would suggest to you, respectfully, that when a term becomes that meaningless, it should be retired. By the way, with your ATF, when was the last time you saw her? Did you ever see her outside the club at all? If not, could you explain to me why you believe you had a relationship more meaningful with her than I have, say, with my dental hygenist (with whom I always have deep and meaningful conversations every time I get my teeth cleaned). SuperDude's brutally honest assessment seems a lot closer to the truth in my humble opinion. Maybe your ATF was happy to see you because you were a source of cash -- which would explain why she never saw you under any other circumstances. Sorry if that hurts. By the way, you never felt a close personal bond with Dr. J did you?
ATF status has nothing to do with with whether the dancer actually truly likes me. It is how I feel about her due to the services she performs.
Now, if the dancer actually has to like you for there to be an ATF that isn't out of the question for even old and ugly customers. Gambling dancer still calls and comes over to say hi or shoot the breeze or to use my computer (she doesn't really need to use my computer, btw), but she won't sell dances or other services. She'll give them away, but that is a negative situation to get into, imo, with her or any other woman. Paying is a lot cheaper.
For those men who want "free" more power to you. I think it is far better to pay. Unfortunately, it seems like *some* dancers when they start caring about you refuse to accept money.
This dancer is only an ATF in the sense that there was some type of "chemical" explosions where I was just seeing stars she was so good. She was that much better *for me* than any other woman. Everything seemed fantastic afterwards and I was looking forward to a long term paid relationship with a dancer who could literally make me see stars. Next time I see her in the club it is all bad. :( She announces that she isn't going to sell me dances anymore and that she wants to date for real. I explained the age difference and that I was a horrible boyfriend and etc., but she held her position and finally asked me to leave and not come back.
Some of you act like your ATF's are special or important. I don't get it. You are customers to them, nothing more.
ShotDisc: Your naivete is almost touching. She "spent time" with you (meaning sat and talked with you) because you were a regular customer, she was still dancing, and she had a reasonable hope that you would continue to come to the club and spend money in the future. Had she refused to talk to you, she would have risked burning that bridge, and losing a customer. It is not any different than when someone gives a free consult. Had you persisted in failing to buy dances, she would have eventually stopped talking to you.
Now I made a specific factual claim, but what's the evidence for what I am saying? Well, for one, you notice she never gave you dances for free when you were broke, she just sat and talked. Why? Because giving you a free dance would have defeated the whole purpose, and "the whole purpose" is to make money, in this case by keeping you interested and getting you to keep visiting the club. Of course, some dancers will give away freebies to attract or keep customers, but only so long as they can continue to reasonably hope that the customer will be a source of business. If she really liked you as more than an acceptable customer, she would not have flinched at giving you free dances all the time. (Which is why I don't see my dental hygenist naked. It's not her job. But it is the stripper's job to get naked. But she's doing it solely as a job, not something else.)
Second, as soon as she "retired" from dancing (or left her club in any event), she had nothing to do with you. If she was really your "friend" in any sense of the word, you would have had some kind of relationship with her that went beyond her job. You didn't. You never saw her outside her job; you probably never even knew her address; I bet you never even knew her real name. Could you call her up on the phone today and expect her to know who you are? I'm betting your odds of doing that are about as good as your odds of calling up your ATF Dr. J.
(BTW, sometimes dancers will see their customers outside the club, meet them for lunch, hang out with them, etc., etc. But again, that's just customer relations, no different than when I take a vendor out to lunch or dinner. Those kind of "grease the wheel" social events are very common in the business world.)
It's no reflection on you, of course, that she just dropped off the radar. It happens to everyone. That's why we've had several posts on this site -- even by the strongest proponents of the concept of the ATF -- by guys who are shocked, just shocked when their so-called ATF just disappeared and left no forwarding address. How could she do that? To me! We had lunch! I took her out for dinner! We even had sex! She was my ATF! Well, maybe, but to her you were just a customer in the club, and as soon as she was done dancing, she never gave another thought to it.
Of course your special ATF Julie (if that was her real name) was and is a person. I'm a person too, and just like Julie did to you, I schmooz my customers, because it's good for business. But they are still customers, not friends, even though I might like them and find them to be tolerable company. Sorry if you have a hard time understanding that.
I've gotten "free" dances when going to the club without sufficient funds. It is usually just good customer service. I've had ATFs who refused to do paid dances--defeats my reason for going to the club. Gambling dancer made the idiotic statement that NO dancer will refuse to sell me dances because the dancer likes me---it was idiotic because she is exhibit "A." When I pointed that out to her she does a bunch of confused double talk complaining among other things that I treat her like a friend and that if I would act like a customer then she would treat me like a customer.
Again, I don't see where ATF liking you are disliking you or not giving an F about you makes a bit of difference to whether she is an ATF. Also, as far as ATF, I may apply that to one dancer because she does a great job and happens to have extreme intelligence. Another, might be an ATF just for one particular club. Still, another might be an ATF because not only does she do an excellent job, but she will give people the shirt off her back. When it comes to an ATF who can make me see stars there is one clear winner that is far ahead of any women. I almost regret not trying to bend about my rule about keeping it paid, but I believe that would have been a real a mess. She cut me off and told me she didn't want to see me again. I saw her about six months later at a different club and tried to patch things up--didn't work and just made her more upset. If she would have used her brain instead of going by feelings, then she wouldn't of given me the time of day except for the $$$.
Finally, yes there are norms and I think overwhelmingly dancers don't consider customers as friends, however, the one-size-fits-all mentality is more than a little grating; it's idiotic in the extreme. It is like when a man or woman tells me that I have to feel X, Y, or Z and can't feel A, B, or C. It is absurd and brain-dead. It is like saying all men have to be attracted to women or a man can't be attracted to a Walmart Blubber Blob of a woman.
Now, if a person is speaking about general rules then yes it can make a lot of sense. I don't even know why it would be important for a dancer to see a person as more than a customer as long as the customer is happy. Now, I need and look for the GFE----that can just be a dancer doing an excellent acting job and that is fine and dandy, imo.
Again, I don't see where ATF liking you or disliking you or not giving an F about you makes a bit of difference as to whether she is an ATF.
In fact, be grateful that the money keeps them from becoming friends with you.
I think the posts here are just a long winded variation of the oft-repeated and rather trivial observation: "Hey, dummy! The strippers doesn't REALLY like you. She just wants your money."
I think part of the issue is that if a word or phrase has multiple meanings, then that somehow VOIDS the word entirely. Also, for some reason some posters have added reciprocity to the definition.
I think Bobbyl hit the nail on the head. It isn't about whether a customer can have an ATF or multiple ATFs. It is the worn-out one-size-fits-all notion that all strippers: 1) Don't REALLY like you and 2) She just wants your money. Sorry, this stereotyping is totally boring and brain-dead if it is applied to all dancers. Besides even if somehow all dancers marched in lock step on those two ideas does it make a bit of difference? I suppose to many customers it might.
I don't go to a strip club looking for any sort of personal relationship, not do I go looking for sex. I just want to have fun. And she was the more fun to be with than any other dancer I've ever spent significant time with. That's my definition of an ATF.
I have had two and am working on number three. StripShopper today met the new candidate. I think that he was impressed.
http://www.tuscl.com/article/Glossary+of…
Julie McCullough was her real name. Her stage name was Jules
I knew where she lived.
I knew all the details of her family situation and she knew mine.
I had her phone number.
Not every trip to her club was for dances.
She chose to spend time with me even when I did not have sufficient funds for dances. I often suggested she make the rounds of the club rather than sit with me, and she chose not to. She spent as much time with me as she did with the guys who were buying her gifts and envelopes full of cash.
She told me she was planning on retiring before she did. She just didn't say when. According to others at her club, she just up and left one day and didn't say good bye to anyone. She just never came back.