tuscl

no longer customer, beyond

Friday, May 16, 2008 5:22 AM
Within my first month of dancing, about four years ago, I met a customer who was amazing. It sounds silly, but truly, our interaction was magical. I'm the type of person who's very goal-oriented and compartmentalized. I decided what I wanted with him, and I knew the goal wasn't money. Also, I knew enough to know that the club was a place where I work as a stripper, and what we experienced was beyond the environment. I accepted his invitation to dinner (omg, how naive, reading it, but you had to be there to understand (haha)). I told him that I'd accept only under the condition that I not see him again in the club, no matter what happens between us. Even now, after a few years of dancing, I'm crazy about maintaining the separation of working as a whore and being an exotic dancer. How sad I am to see the changes, the meetings after the club for a couple hundred bucks by "dancers" with their regulars. The money exchange makes it business. And, this is what I'm getting to. I'm now a nurse (and going to enter grad school this fall), so I'm thankful to not be struggling financially. Now, I consider dancing to be my "gambling" time, where I'm happy if I do well and generally enjoy the process. But, I've been "using" this guy for all his qualities, careful to keep him in his place, and always respectful of his boundaries. I'm seeing all these dancers meeting customers outside, getting things paid for, and I'm starting to wonder if maybe I'm just being stupid. Does it make me a whore even if I've never accepted money (and get mad at the gifts, saying no to gifts) from my guy? For four years now, I've been having amazing sex about every two weeks. I'm too busy with school to go out a lot, plus dancing limited me from dating because I generally didn't want to the type of guy who'd be okay wit his girlfriend dancing, so why bother? So, this guy has benefited me greatly. He's a wonderful person, and I care about him deeply (though I don't tell him). He has told me he loves me (though I've not told him), and I feel it in the way he treats me. I don't want to lose what we have, but part of me is starting to question whether I'm being dumb, or worse, I'm no different from the dancers I so distance my actions from--the ones who meet guys all the time (different ones, for money). And then again, I look at the guys who practically beg me for meeting them, offering money. Do you think the guy I'm with is just thinking of me as a free whore? Am I being dumb? BTW, he's been to strip clubs with his friends, and has told me, usually calling while there (!) and I've had to tell him to get a dance with a girl, because it's rude not to. He tells me I've ruined his club experience, since he sees no me. Is this just talk?

19 comments

  • Dudester
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    16 years ago
    Hi Emmy, You sound like some of the truly screwed up women I've been with. For instance, I dated Janet from the first day of college until graduation. We had done everything but find a minister and date for our wedding. Suddenly she drops the bomb on me that she and dad are having sex, and therefore our engagement is now over. She confirmed strange things I had seen, but thought was my imagination. We had a lot in common, but dad's penis was just too addictive for her. Then there's Kat. She was my ATF for three years. We had a lot in common-really. She could discuss classic movies at length, so she wasn't faking it. We also had great chemistry in bed. We were getting serious when she not only broke it off, but completely changed her locale, hours, club, etc. She told my present ATF she "felt conflicted" over a customer. Like Kat and Janet, you're commitment phobic.
  • founder
    •
    16 years ago
    life is too short not to follow your heart. do what you want to do, not what you think you should do.
  • njscfan
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    16 years ago
    Well, first, I think it was pretty courageous to share your story. Most people on this site either say nothing about what is really going on in their lives, or just dump a lot of bragging BS. Your situation sounds real to me. I also think Dudester's comparison to a incestuous relationship is unfair and off the mark (a little weird honestly). You are having a pretty typical heterosexual relationship with a guy. I don't think that has much to do with a girl who is sleeping with her Dad. You do not sound "screwed up" to me at all. You sound like a normal person trying to find you path in the world. I am probably overly cynical about guys (being one myself), but given you have been seeing this guy for 4 years; you met in a club; you have sex every 2 weeks but don't live together; and he still goes to clubs -- it is likely he does not see this as a monogamous relationship. That does not mean he does not love you. It is a fact that a guy can genuinely love a woman and yet still sleep around. It is just the way many of us are built. But I personally doubt that he has never slept with another girl in the last 4 years. As for not telling him your feelings and keeping him distant, I do not see the reason for that. You've been seeing him for a while. He's already expressed his feelings to you. So the likelihood that you will scare him off seems slim to me. It's not like you would immediately try to move in with him. I think after 4 years it's reasonable to find out if his feelings are genuine, or if he sees you as just a fuck buddy. Either way, it's appropriate to know where you stand. As for charging him, obviously that kind of depends on what the relationship really is. If he is just a fuck buddy, then I do not see the problem in having a mutually advantageous relationship, however you both define it. If there is something more there -- real love -- then obviously money is not part of the equation. Again, 4 years is a long time to be unsure about the status of a relationship. If you really would lose the relationship just by being honest with him, then the only thing you are actually losing is the sex. In that case, I suspect you can still find good sex elsewhere.
  • BobbyI
    •
    16 years ago
    Paragraphs?
  • quimby
    •
    16 years ago
    Emmy7 - It must be about 1 woman in 500 that does not sit down with her mate or lover and talk about "the relationship" and you sound like that you are that 1 in 500. At the risk of being kicked out of the United Brotherhood of Guys for suggesting this, why not just talk about it with him as a normal matter of conversation, and w/o drama and w/o a confrontation tone ? Example - " You know, I was sort of wondering: where do we go from here, as a couple ?? " It might work; it might be like writing a long heartfelt essay and getting a request for more paragraph breaks as feedback, who knows... (Men, Don't you just love them ??)
  • Book Guy
    •
    16 years ago
    I have to admit, I'm suspicious. This parallels a given story we've heard here already, but from the man's perspective. And the notion that the woman is into it because the sex is great, as reported by the woman, and yet she never interacts with this guy in front of any of her female peers, seems utterly preposterous to me. Females are attracted to men largely ONLY on the basis of how those men influence their female peers. But, that having been said: Every relationship is different. The natural male temptation to desire a wide range of sexual outlets is being served well by the current arrangement, and therefore he is being kept happy, partly because you are NOT requiring that he push the interaction to a more committed level. He's allowed to go to strip clubs, perhaps pick up other women and have whoring sex with them in the club, perhaps pick up other women in non-club life and have relationships with them, and he is pretty much guaranteed that he will ALSO get nookie from a physically very attractive woman WHOSE BULLSHIT HE DOES NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH. Therefore, it's no surprise he is willing to perpetuate this arrangement. You are giving him all the benefits of your femininity with none of the inherent detriments. You aren't making him put up with you when you're bloated and cantankerous and on the rag; you aren't asking him to spend all afternoon at decorator's shops looking at window treatments; you aren't demanding that he meet your parents and be nice to that hairy old fuck of a hag your step-mom; you aren't telling him that he needs to change his tie, or get a better car, or a higher-paying career. In short, for him you're the ideal woman. You don't ACT like a woman, you just LOOK like one. Will he be different if you change the relationship? He's likely to need management to push him into change of any sort. You're also likely to need to change your expectations. Interacting with people is a constant management process. The way you've chosen to manage him, is to push all the necessity for management away, and only interact when managing is "automatic" because you haven't seen one another for a while. Sounds like a fucked up arrangement. Can I get one?
  • FONDL
    •
    16 years ago
    Emmy, thanks for sharing. I don't think any of us can possibly know enough about your situation to give you any useful advice. I agree with Founder, do what feels right to you. And if it turns that it doesn't lead to where you want it to go, well life is like that sometimes - learn what you can from it and move on. Good luck.
  • njscfan
    •
    16 years ago
    Bookguy: C'mon, relationships are not THAT bad! Lol. My wife does not act weird during her period; does not take me shopping at the decorators; and does not try to change my clothes, car or career. And I rather like my in-laws. True married couples even in the best of circumstances can get on each other's nerves at times, but there are happy marriages. I get along better with my wife probably than anyone else in the world. Most guys will take commitment free sex when they can get it, to be sure, but most guys will also be happier overall if they have a home. Now somehow swinging both of those things at once, that's the trick.
  • 2335vent
    •
    16 years ago
    Interesting post but kind of hard its actually from a woman but here goes. He's not paying for it so I don't you should equate with OTC paid experiences. It sounds like he has feelings for you and you for him although you won't admit it. I would just enjoy and at some point you may be able to express your feelings for him. To quote a text to my ATF " I have purposely not tried to anticipate or plan what's going to happen or not but instead just enjoy it and revel in the beauty and charms of the woman I'm with wherever it leads. DON'T OVERANALYZE" Good luck
  • emmy7
    •
    16 years ago
    Thank you for the thoughtful replies. I did sort of regret writing as I did, but now I'm thankful for the insight. As for the lack of paragraphs, I was simply writing, not thinking enough about form. And to the guy who thinks I'm like the girls he's dated, well, that's the kind of response I expected. I expected you guys to think I'm "messed up", so no surprise, but do thank those who believe a "stripper" is capable of experiencing and knowing relatively healthy relationships as her norm. I'm kind of busy right now, and would like to look over further your responses before writing more, but just wanted to thank those who took the time to give your opinion. Thanks.
  • jablake
    •
    16 years ago
    Well, you say he has benefitted you greatly. Sounds fantastic if you're willing to take that as face value and in that case you're a winner even if he was just playing you. Small changes can lead to big differences. What I mean is it doesn't seem like you spend that much time with him ("amazing sex about every two weeks") and maybe more time together would kill or strengthen the relationship. Also, it sounds like communication on your part is poor, but perhaps he likes that---knowingly or unknowingly. I can't say whether he is "just talk," but I will say too often people fall into the trap of stereotyping. For example, most guys are liars quickly mutates into all guys are liars. Too often strippers will judge me on stereotypes and it is a pain in the ass. For example, if I say I just would like some dances, then that is what I mean even if all the other guys meant full service. (I wanted to see a dancer OTC because the club was too loud and she just knew for a fact that I was really talking about full service: wrong!)
  • casualguy
    •
    16 years ago
    Emmy thanks for posting and sharing. I fell asleep tonight watching tv and have been sleepier than normal this week posting a bit more crazier than normal this week I believe. My thoughts on this are if a guy is paying a girl to sleep with him, that seems more like a business arrangement. I don't see that progressing into any sort of loving arrangement. I think more highly of a relationship where money is not exchanged. A relationship in my opinion is not one where you have to pay a dancer or any other girl to get what you want. Of course the whole subject is debateable because some would argue marriage is a much higher price to pay for a guy to get want he wants and that is what some relationships lead to. Brushing aside other debates, a regular relationship between a male and female in my opinion is what can lead to a deeper relationship. Not knowing your situation or your thoughts, I don't want to put ideas in your head. I do not feel like you are being stupid not charging him like some of your dancer friends may do with other guys. Those aren't real relationships they have, those are business deals for a profit. Guys in my opinion will treat it that way as well. However some guys can be harder to judge, some guys and girls as well sleep around with lots of members of the opposite sex just because they enjoy it. A few guys may act like that as well but many guys do not find picking up dates as easy of a task as they make it sound. Then there is a good chance they don't care for her as well after they know her. You have something special it sounds like.
  • parodyman-->
    •
    16 years ago
    emmy7, Look at the posters here. Who isn't messed up in some way? Myself included.
  • casualguy
    •
    16 years ago
    I think the posters here are ordinary people. In fact we may be better off than many other people in society who are having problems with drugs or money. Most of the people who use this web site probably do not even post here so I guess we may be more strong willed than all the quiet people.
  • hornytoad085
    •
    16 years ago
    My reaction would be to say do whatever you want to do. If you're happy with the situation, keep it as it is, regardless of whether it might make you somehow like other girls who do it for money in the eyes of some. If you feel truly feel uneasy about it then you need to decide what you want out of the relationship--do you want to marry him, live with him, see him more often, or just tell him how you feel? Something else you may want to think about it is, what comes to mind when you think about meeting someone else? You said you're too busy for much socializing, but also that you wouldn't want to date someone who was ok with you dancing—sounds like a Catch 22. Do you have a long-term life plan in terms of getting married? If so, presumably that would then require you to stop dancing, which sounds possible for you at the financial level. The analogy about the girl who was sleeping with her father was a little off and doesn't really pertain to you I think. P.S. Why do so many nurses/nursing students work in SCs? (I've met at least a half-dozen.) I know the logistical arguments--good money for nursing school, etc., and I have my own personal psychosocial theories as well, but what's your take on it?
  • emmy7
    •
    16 years ago
    I also have noticed a disproportionate number of dancers who, if they are in college or have a degree, it's nursing. The dancers who are nurses tend to be dancers who stick around, or have danced a little while. This is important, because there's a big difference in mentality between longer-term dancers and those just doing it for a few months. Dancing is challenging. To deal with the challenges, some take the path of drinking/using drugs to handle it. Those who don't quit, don't take the sad path I just said, and yet still dance often are of the style of person who would be attracted to and successful in nursing. I'm amazed at the success of some dancers who have no apparent bit of humanity in their bodies, but that type being successful is the exception. A truly successful dancer (doing no extras, staying healthy, etc.) has to be excruciatingly generous and kind. I know that you guys might laugh at that! Honestly, in nursing, we're not exactly given the credit or respect we deserve (don't we all look to the physician?), we feel compelled to maintain the Florence Nightingale service mentality even in the midst of sometimes rude and obnoxious patients, and we generally will take all kinds of crap-all in the name of being a good nurse. It takes humility and dedication. It's the bigger purpose that draws us to nursing, the possiblity of making a difference. We (nurses)are a pretty needy bunch, and codependent. It makes us feel good when we make others feel good, and, if we don't, we easily take it personally. Dancers are often very sensitive like this- underneath it all. There's a lot more to it than that, but in a nutshell, that's my take on it!
  • hornytoad085
    •
    16 years ago
    That's interesting what you said about nurses/nursing students. It makes a lot of sense, although my theory was something more along the lines of having a job (nursing) which requires an almost complete suppression of one's sexuality if not emotionality translating into having a part-time job which requires almost the complete opposite. I would not have thought nurses are so needy to feel useful, although I think many doctors are somewhat the same way so maybe it's something peculiar to being a medical professional.
  • gk
    •
    16 years ago
    We're not psychologits, but we're obviously sensing individuals with opinions. I agree with Founder and Quimby. Life IS short. So, take some risks, follow your heart, live on the edge if you like it, just dopn't fal off, don't fantasize-live! AND, it doesn't hurt to try and talk about things -- but only in a disarming way. Create the wrong impresion and you could end things with only a question.
  • shadowcat
    •
    16 years ago
    I have a favorite dancer that surprised me with her medical knowledge. I asked her if she had, had some schooling and she told me that she almost graduated from nursing school. She was doing her internship at a hospital and decided that that it was not for her. Too bad. I told her that it was alright to call it a dick instead of a penis. She said "sorry, it was my medical training". She is doing very well at her new profession. You will here more about her but no name. This is my private stock.
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