Comments by sagevincent

Same here. And by the same logic overly fake moaning are buzz kills for me.

The context is like "it's good grinding but didn't KSO," and "she didn't KSO." SO I think "knock my shit off" makes sense. I guess KSO means something similar. More so since it was a SoCal review so may have originated from Z-bone. I prefer to use "LDK" though. Thanks guys.

I was in Larry Flynt's Hustler Club across the street last night, and the manager had to evacuate the place and sent everyone home. However, as we approached the parking lot exit, the police said everything was clear, and it's safe to go back to the club if we want. They still shut down Miss Kitty's, though. It's pretty scary, and an unusual experience.

My personal experience says City of Industry has higher mileage over ESL. But I haven't been to the dirtier clubs in Washington Park.

Knows how to grind (slow and sensual), has silky skin, and gives me the GFE vibe--That will make her to my favorite list (i.e. repeated business). Sweet and genuine smile, interesting life beside stripping--That would push her to my candidates of ATF. Great sex--Forget what I said above.

#3- no way! #1- repeated business, maybe. Very unlikely to find an ATF. So like most guys, I found my in #2.

@Papi_Chulo-Ouch! That hurts. Having seen that, I am not sure I would feel better or more depressed, knowing that everything was likely all acting for money. What I found really works for me is to write down all my feelings. In my case, it was actually a poem. I went to see her tonight for one last time and read the poem to her, did our final dances, and leave. I call it the closure. She is still special to me, it's just that I am calm now and accept things as they are. Thank you guys. Your support means a lot to me.

I think when it comes to clubbing it's better to be extemporaneous. If I were you I would probably text the dancer just before going. If she does not respond, I'll save the trip or still go having fun without expectation of seeing her. I am usually more lenient about ITC meeting than OTC, simply because in the former case if the dancer does not show up I can still have some fun. If a dancer stand me up OTC, I would most likely stop seeing her. @Dolfan, I typically assume that when a dancer says "I will be back," it's a euphemism for "I plan to talk to others," unless we explicitly agree to have some dances right after she come back. Other than that, I would wait for one song then forget it if she does not come back.

Has anyone been at this situation and got the willpower to stop an dancer and use a condom? Did the dancer comply or stop giving freebies? I certainly do not want to ruin her mood and miss the opportunity, but I know I would be worried getting something afterwards. If I am getting extras free of extra charge, my sweet spot would be a good hj. No worries.

Yui Hatano her name is.

(Type corrected, sorry!) @Sketchball: Like others said, it's not impossible, but quite improbable. Really, what are the odds that a dancer of exactly your type happens to have a crush on you, and wants to be your friends with benefits even through you already have a girlfriends? Let's make an educated guess. Let's say, for example, on average you find a dancer of exactly your type every other visit. So the odds are about 1/30. Let's suppose that a dancer genuinely has a crush on a customer once a month, that's a quite generous chance, right? Suppose she works 3 shifts a week, and sees about 50 customers per shift, that means she has a chance of 1/600 to fall in love with a customer. But what are the odds that she does not want your money OTC, and just wants to date you even if you have a girlfriend? I will throw in another odds of 1/10. So the chance of all these things happen is 1/30*1/600*1/10=1/180,000. That is , on average you should expect to meet 180,000 dancers to have one such occurrence. Not impossible; improbable, indeed. Without further information, that would be my guess. Maybe you have a lower standard for the "ideal type", or maybe you are supper attractive to dancers or this dancer has a lower standard for crushes, or she has lower morality on dating. That would increase the odds. Make your own adjustments. Now the positive side. You said you have been clubbing for 13 years. I don't know how often did you go or how many dancers you have met over the years. Suppose that you club every week, and for each time you see 15 new faces. Then over the years you have met 13*52*15=10,140 dancers. I will skip the math, but the chance that the situation happens (at least once) is about 7% over the years. So if you really never have this feeling with any other dancers before, that increases the odds of this being true to 7%. Still low, but I would say within the reasonable range to give it a shot. It's your call, and you have my best wishes. Just be careful, and keep us update.

@Sketchball: Like others said, it's not impossible, but quite improbable. Really, what are the odds that a dancer of exactly your type happens to have a crush on you, and wants to be your friends with benefits even through you already have a girlfriends? Let's make an educated guess. Let's say, for example, on average you find a dancer of exactly your type every other visit. So the odds are about 1/30. Let's suppose that a dancer genuinely has a crush on a customer once a month, that's a quite generous chance, right? Suppose she works 3 shifts a week, and sees about 50 customers per shift, that means she has a chance of 1/600 to fall in love with a customer. But what are the odds that she does not want your money OTC, and just wants to date you even if you have a girlfriend? I will throw in another odds of 1/10. So the chance of all these things happen is 1/30*1/600*1/10=1/180,000. That is , on average you should expect to meet 120,000 dancers to have one such occurrence. Not impossible; improbable, indeed. Without further information, that would be my guess. Maybe you have a lower standard for the "ideal type", or maybe you are supper attractive to dancers or this dancer has a lower standard for crushes, or she has lower morality on dating. That would increase the odds. Make your own adjustments. Now the positive side. You said you have been clubbing for 13 years. I don't know how often did you go or how many dancers you have met over the years. Suppose that you club every week, and for each time you see 15 new faces. Then over the years you have met 13*52*15=10,140 dancers. I will skip the math, but the chance that the situation happens (at least once) is about 10% over the years. So if you really never have this feeling with any other dancers before, that increases the odds of this being true to 7%. Still low, but I would say within the reasonable range to give it a shot. It's your call, and you have my best wishes. Just be careful, and keep us update.

On the second thought, it may all work out for the best that my passion faded away. Clubbing without my ATFs was much simpler: just me having casual fun. I feel there is too much drama being attached to a dancer. Similar to what Rick said, I am quite satisfied with the stable relationship I have with my SO. When I do clubbing, I just want to chill and flirt rather than go frenzy and mess up my normal life. But with an ATF, sometimes I just can't help it. Now I think the balance is restored. And with her setting such a high bar on attractiveness, I think I will be immune from getting involved for quite a while.

I have several dancer friends that do similar things to me. I am not even getting dances from them every time I go. We just sit and talk random topics between her stages. we are cool if I get dances from others and she works with customers. That being said, I've also met many dancers that quickly become greedy after a few visits. And I never met dancers that are genuinely "in love" with me. Bottom line is that it's quite possible that dancers may like us as a friend -- everyone likes friendship after all. But very rarely will they have affectionate feelings to us. Any experienced dancers would avoid that from happening. And even if they do, I don't think it could even end well.

@toomuchcover: I feel quite comfortable staying late. These clubs have staff outside monitoring the parking lot. I will probably leave before close time, though -- to avoid drunk customers. @partyparty: physical contact is quite possible, but your mileage may vary. I have a feeling that dressing nice helps.

Read my reviews for my experience in ESL clubs. My favorite ESL clubs are (in that order): Hustler, Penthouse, Hollywood, PT's Sports. Extras are not common in these clubs, if any, though. Dance prices are high at Penthouse and PT's. But girls usually spend more time sitting and talking with customers. Drink hustles are high at Hollywood, so you may end up paying a lot for drinks. Time to visit: Hollywood has a lot of dancers both day and night. PT's Sports' prime time is probably around 9pm. I would check Hustler between 10pm-2am, and Penthouse after midnight.

Forgot to mention that ESL area clubs are also highly polarized in to posh clubs like Penthouse and dire clubs like C-Mowe's. That is consistent with the previous theory, with the addition that now club owners self-select into serving only high-end customers and serving only low-end customers. After all, low-end customers' money is still money, and greedy entrepreneurs never leave money on the table.

Besides law and regulation, there might be a more basic economic force of this phenomenon, namely the combination of wealth inequality and monopoly pricing. For simplicity, let's assume that wealthy people are willing to pay at most say, $450 an hour for the vip room (the common going rate in East St Louis area), and less wealthy people only wants to pay $75 for 15 minutes vip(the best deal in COI area). For the clubber who can set prices, what will he choose? Obviously either $450/hr to target only the rich, or $75/15min for the whole market. My observation is that economically depressed areas have not only lower average income but also more unequal wealth distributions. In these areas, club owners may simply give up the lower-end market, because the willingness to pay for the lower-end customers is too low to compensate for the loss profits that he can get by charging higher prices and serve the higher-end patrons.

It's probably real, or at least I would believe it, cause it's too terrifying for a woman to fake a miscarriage. Still, it's not your obligation to take her emotional baggage. Nor should she be encouraged to take advantage of you, even if it is a true story. I think you did a good deed helping her, but if I were you I wouldn't see her again, not until the whole sorrow goes away.

What Estafador said. And I think CFS is overrated and often overpriced. If bare back is not on the table (not sure I even want it when it comes), then I settle for CBJ. Another point: FS from strippers is no better than from civilians, or even worse with exposure to experience. BJ, on the other hand, requires practice and it's something strippers usually do better.

But it is possible that one is so attached to an ATF that he THINKS he can never find a better one. What's the word for this? The One?

While we are on this subject, I want to know if paying for cumming in the pants is considered as prostitution? I don't think so, but does anyone actually know for sure? I have also heard about some controversy over paying for a hand job. Some think it is obviously prostitution, while others think it is just a massage. To be honest, I cannot see the difference between a HJ and a CIP, for that matter.

I get the "handshake" from time to time when a dancer tries to sell me private dances. Never turned on by that, and felt uneasy. I feel that it is too intimate to feel one's genitals in public, even in a strip club. I am ok with nipple playing (only in clubs of course) as long as they don't hurt me, but it probably won't turn me on as well.

All-time [Definition]: Exceeding all others up to the present time.

I just let them know I want a lap dance cum. If they don't like the idea they will slow things down or stop. Most dancers I met try harder. Sadly, only few of them succeeded. I think as long as you make what you want clear beforehand, they are not offended. But don't just cum.