discussion comment
15 years ago
I too am offended by Tiger's well crafted, squeaky clean family man image and his behavior but mainly because of the hypocrisy involved. I am also disappointed that he has failed to come clean on this issue. However, let me offer a slightly sympathetic perspective. Even if he is married to a supermodel, how do we know that she's any fun in bed. Many of the TUSCL members have noted that the most gorgeous stripper in a club is often much less fun than less stunning strippers who have more sensuality and personality. Let's however assume that his wife if great in bed-- I'm sure that many of the TUSCL readers can appreciate the powerful draw of variety-- by analogy, even if you love tenderloin steaks, they get old if you're eat them every meal.
Now let's think about Tiger's travel schedule, much of it without wife and kids. So, he's away for 4 or 5 days at a stretch. When I was in my 20's and 30's two days without sex seemed like an eternity. Add to that the number of women around the world who would gladly hop in the sack with someone as famous as Tiger and I can imagine that the temptation must have been remarkable--it would be for me. Offsetting that temptation is the possibility that some women might be having sex with him (or just claiming to have done so) in an effort to extort money or court fame.
Finally, think about how confining it can be to be as famous as Tiger. When I want to go to a strip club, I often head out of town so as to reduce the probability that I'll encounter someone who knows me--- there is something reassuring about some level of anonymity. But Tiger has no option-- is there any strip club in the world where his presence would not be noticed--- and maybe even photographed by those ubiquitous cell phone cameras. Maybe the loss of privacy is a small price to pay for being the world's most famous and richest athlete--- but is is a price that should be acknowledged.
discussion comment
15 years ago
My "dance" with a blond spinner in a Michigan club started off with CFS in the cowgirl position while he grasped and massaged her ass cheeks. She mentioned how good it felt as I spread her ass cheeks. After a few minutes, she reversed her position so that she was facing away from me. I've always enjoyed reverse cowgirl but this girl leaned down and placed her hands on the floor so that I have a great view of her ass. She then took my thumb and inserted it in her butt. As she pumped up and down on my cock, I could feel my cock sliding inside of her with my thumb or a couple of fingers that were inserted deeply in her butt. She asked me if I wanted to finish standing up so she hopped off, knelt on the couch, pulled me close behind her and inserted my cock, covered of course, in her ass. I didn't last very long. I saw her about two months later at the same club, she said I remember you, you fucked me in the butt, and kissed me on the cheek and headed back to a group of friends. I've had HJ, BBBJ, CFS in strip clubs but that was my first, and most memorable, anal experience in a strip club.
discussion comment
15 years ago
An observation about the more public VIP's, such as Bogart's or H8S in MI, the romper room activities seem to be restricted to BJ, HJ, cowgirl and on occasion reverse cowgirl. I've had dancers in the more public VIPs decline other positions (e.g., K9) that would have the customer standing as being too "indiscreet." I'm not sure if others have encountered the same restrictions. As shadowcat points out, a BJ is also pretty indiscreet so I'm a bit surprised that some dancers have restrictions on some positions based on discretion. By the way, I haven't encountered such restrictions in more private VIPs. Since K9 is one of my favorites (nothing like the view from behind and being in control), then I have a slight preference for the private VIP experience but who's to complain--its all great.
discussion comment
15 years ago
Disclaimer: The rationalization offered above is intended for married men who are struggling to justify extras. If you try the argument with your SO, let the rest of us know how many nights you sleep on the couch before your SO talks with you again! When it comes to sex and relationships, logic often doesn't prove as persuasive as emotion.
discussion comment
15 years ago
In response to Book Guy's question, I have been to clubs in Detroit and one club in the City of Industry, CA (COI). I can't comment on Houston, having never visited that city. If SCs are the only criterion, then I'd choose Detroit over COI because of the wide range of clubs (lower end clubs such as Henry VIII south and north, Bogarts; mid range clubs such as BT's; and higher end clubs such as Flight Club and Penthouse). Check the TUSCL listings in Detoit and its suburbs (Inkster and Dearborn) for a full range of listings. This means that you'll need a rental car and a GPS to sample the Detroit clubs.
On the other hand, the COI clubs are concentrated in a relatively small space-- you can easily walk between many of the clubs. If you are looking for recreation outside of the SC's and happen to enjoy golf (after all, it does involves strokes, shafts and holes), then COI has a very nice golf course within a few miles of the SCs. Michigan (including the Detroit area) has lots of great golf courses at reasonable prices, but the golf season is generally May through October (excpet for the golf fanatics, such as me).
You might also consider a trip to San Diego and a sojourn across the border to Tijuana, but be sure to read the advice on safe travel to the Tijuana SC scene.
I would also consider the Tampa Bay area where I've enjoyed some OTC and ITC fun but not with the regularity of Detroit and COI. Perhaps some of the Florida based TUSCL contributors can provide advice on Tampa area or Miami.
discussion comment
15 years ago
Humans only have seven (or so) biologically programmed drives.
1. Food when hungry; 2. liquid when thirsty; 3. oxygen when deprived of such; 4. temperature regulation (heat when cold and the converse); 5. sleep/rest when tired; 6. escape from painful stimulation and 7. sex when "horny."
For thought, if you were hungry and your wife/partner/SO was not, would it be OK for you to eat on your own if a) your eating did not diminish her quality of life (you didn't eat the last bit of food in the house), b) your eating alone did not prevent you from enjoying a meal with her when you were both hungry? c) you didn't contract any disease while eating that you subsequently transmitted to your SO? Would it matter if you ate alone or with a friend?
When I pose a similar line of questioning to all the other biological drives (except #7, sex) I arrive at a similar conclusion-- it seems to be OK to quench your thirst, breathe air, take a nap, put on a sweater when cold, etc. without the participatation or permission of a SO as long as your actions have no (or limited) impact on the other's rights and quality of life.
However, when we arrive at #7, sex, we seem to apply a different set of social standards. There may well be very good reasons for this different set of standards: the need to control reproduction (something that birth control has resolved to a certain extent; 2) the implications of sexual liaisons for emotional attachment and relationship commitment. But if those reservations can be circumvented--- why not? I know its a rationalization and most rationalizations have flaws but it is worth consideration if you are in a relationship where your sexual needs are not being met (and some might argue that novelty, as in partners or activities, is a powerful need in the sexual domain) and you are contemplating an affair or a SC or SP visit.
discussion comment
15 years ago
The line that I've heard from strippers goes something like: "I know you probably won't believe me, but this is the first time I've done this (usually meaning BJ or sex --- I visit some of the Detroit area clubs) in the club."
So how should I reply?
1. Laugh so hard that I shoot beer out my nostrils? (probably not, too messy)
2. Say, liar, liar, pants on fire?
3. Say, thanks for making me your very first?
4. Say, OK, I promise to never ask again?
5. Say, wait till I post this on TUSCL--- you'll have lots more opportunities to do this.
Other suggestions?
discussion comment
15 years ago
Here's my scouting report on the few Detroit area clubs that I've visited:
Henry VIII South-- all about the extras. Mixed selection of dancers, mostly 5-6 on the looks scale but sometimes some 7-8's. Building looks like a 1950s neighborhood bar in need of repair and the interior is nothing fancy. VIP is a large closet with padded chairs. But if inexpensive extras and over the top aggressiveness from the dancers are a turn on then this could be your place.
Bogarts-- a notch or two better than H8S in terms of quality of the dancers and the laid back neighborhood bar feel of the building. Extras are generally available but the VIP is simply a raised platform with a wall that separates it from the main seating area. Once in the VIP there is little privacy but this can have its benefits if you enjoy watching the other dancers doing their thing in the VIP-- kind of like watching a live porn flick. One other minor downside to the lack of VIP privacy--it seems to limit the range of extras to those that can occur while the customer is seated in his chair.
Henry 8 North-- only one very brief visit. In my single visit, I was amazed at the number of overweight dancers. I'm not into large women so I left after one beer. To be fair, it was probably a sampling problem as I've heard other reports of attractive dancers. Extras are reported to be available.
Flight Club and Penthouse-- glitzy, high quality clubs with lots of good looking dancers. Extras may be available but they'll be pricey. Occasional reports of bait and switch and upsell (dancers who promise something in VIP but fail to deliver or request more $) so be sure to get agreement on your VIP expectations. Penthouse offers VIP areas with excellent privacy. Flight Club has reasonable privacy. If you have the money, I'd recommend a visit to either club with the nod to Penthouse over Flight Club-- more consistently good looking dancers and the privacy of the VIP is excellent.
Playhouse-- reasonable talent and generally nice building. VIP area offers only slightly more privacy than Bogarts.
Bada Bing-- advertises nude dancers but in my one afternoon visit I only saw one dancer who was reasonably attractive-- like Henry 8N, too limited a sample for conclusions.
Best Detroit strip club? Depends on your criteria but in my opinion:
Quality of dancers: top tier: Penthouse, Flight Club; middle tier-- Playhouse, Bogarts; lower tier--Henry's both locations.
Availability of extras-- H8S, Bogarts, Penthouse, Flight Club
Privacy of VIP-- Penthouse, Flight Club
Value (reasonably attractive dancers for reasonable costs)-- Bogarts
discussion comment
15 years ago
Back to the original question. I typically ask a dancer to tell me about her lap dances. Depending on the answer, I may pose a few follow up questions. What are the "rules" for her lap dance? If she refers to club rules, I'll often ask if she's the kind of girl who breaks the rules? Is there anything "special" about your lap dances?
Depending on the answers to the above, I will sometimes tell the dancer that I'm looking for something "more" than just a lap dance.
I've only encountered a a couple of dancers to were offended by the proposition (or at least appeared to be offended). To which my reply is something like, have you never been propositioned before? If I didn't find you attractive, I wouldn't have asked so it's kind of like a compliment.
My biggest challenge is reassuring dancers that I'm not LEO. On occasion, I had a dancer ask me to place my driver's license on the table while she offered a special lap dance. I can understand asking to see a person's ID, especially if it is a work place photo ID. Any advice on how to reassure a dancer that you are just a customer?
discussion comment
15 years ago
What would Pavlov say? When a neutral stimulus (such as a particular song) is consistently paired with another stimulus (such as the sexual stimulation that occurs in a good lap dance) that elicits an unconditioned response (sexual arousal), guess what? That neutral stimulus now starts to elicit the same response all by itself. Pavlov studied dogs drooling to an auditory stimulus that was paired with food. No reason why sexual arousal (for a dancer of her customer) could not be elicited by a particular song that was frequently played during a lap dance. This of course assumes that the LD is sexually arousing--certainly to the customer (at least it is for me) and presumably to the stripper.
discussion comment
15 years ago
I usually ask "is there anything on the menu above and beyond a basic lap dance?"
discussion comment
15 years ago
Excellent scouting report Bookguy. In spite of the auto industry meltdown, Detroit offers a great range of high mileage strip clubs. At the ritzy end of the scale, Flight Club and Penthouse have beautiful women, private VIPs with high mileage and extras if you find the right dancer; it is however but pricey. At the lower end of the continuum, Bogarts and Henry VIII have a mixed bag of dancers (some quite attractive) but ultra high mileage in somewhat open VIP romper rooms. I've been to Tucson (Candy Store), San Francisco (Mitchell Brothers Theater), Adelitas in Tijuana and some of the clubs outside of Niagra Falls. The Detroit collection of clubs is, in my somewhat limited experience (haven't sampled E. St Louis, Miami or Houston), unrivaled for variety and mileage.
discussion comment
15 years ago
Thanks to Wallanon for a thoughtful reply to my initial question. I did some searching on Google Scholar and MedLine but I did not find an adequate answer to my question. I also posted this question on medhelp.org and I'm waiting for a reply, hopefully from a physician who can explain germ theory and STD transmission. If any of the TUSCL readers have a suggestion for reliable web sites for medical information, let me know. There are reasons to suspect that antiseptic mouthwash would have little impact on STD transmission--after all STD's are systemic infections, not just collections of germs on the surface (in this case the mouth of the "giver" of the BBBJ). However, the method by which the STD would be transmitted to the penis has to involve exposure of the penis to the microrganism, probably by infected saliva of the "giver" coming into contact with the permeable membranes of the penis. Thus I would not expect mouthwash to eliminate the STD risk, but, it might temporarily reduce the risk if the mouthwash was strong enough to kill the virus or microrganism. Just for clarity, I know that the mouthwash will not cure the systemic infection-- this means that the infected person will continue to shed microrganism via infected saliva, vaginal secretions sperm, blood, etc. If mouthwash reduces risk, it would only be temporarily until more microrganisms are produces in the saliva. If I get a more definitive answer, I'll post it. And for all those who want to remind me to use a condom--- I know to use a condom and I do -- but if there was a way to greatly reduce the STD transmission risk of a BBBJ, then I'd prefer that over a covered BJ (by the way, using a condom reduces but does not completely eliminate risk of STD transmission via oral sex).
discussion comment
15 years ago
OK, I'm not showing up at a SC with condoms, mouthwash, surgical masks, antiseptic wipes and a yellow haz mat suit. But what got me thinking about this was the last time I got a BBBJ in a strip club, I watched the dancer swallow and head out into the club where she promptly planted a kiss on the mouth of another customer. I also had a dance from a stripper who obviously loved to have her nipples sucked. I know that I tasted and smelled an antiseptic on her nipples. I didn't ask her if she was cleaning (or disinfecting) between customers, but she might have been for all I know. I don't know about you guys, but, if all else was equal (including STD risk), I would prefer BBBJ over CBJ. Most of us would not be reluctant to ask a stripper to use a condom; why not an antiseptic mouth wash--other than the fact that she'd probably laugh but who knows, customer service goes a long way if the customer is paying.
discussion comment
15 years ago
Minnow: I'd be interested in your ideas for Phoenix. I'll be there later this summer. The reviews of Phoenix clubs that I've read suggest good eye candy but very low mileage (at least compared to the Detroit area clubs). Any recommendations would be appreciated.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Thanks to youngguy for the scouting report. It seems to coincide with the SC club reviews-- no mention of extras and generally limited mileage. I've typically had better mileage and extras during the day shift at most SCs so I may check out HiLiter but I'll go with limited expectations.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I've never been offered or heard about any Greek on the extras menu at a strip club although I have observed some anal rimming on one occasion in a strip club (and no I'm not a voyeur, it was one of the Detroit area clubs with a very small, public "VIP" area). I agree with the concerns about STDs, especially with anal, but if a dancer offered, I'd be tempted but only with a condom and a place for clean up.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Minnow is right. I went back and re read some of the posts on Abco. You're right, sounds like it could be an interesting club but upscale doesn't sound like an accurate descriptor. Sounds like the neighborhood is a bit sketchy, the decor pretty unique (sharks on the wall do not necessarily make for an upscale club) and the the restrooms are questionable. I also note that most of the dancers have opted for the no bush look (not the George H or George W version version of bush!) in spite of the name of this club. Still would love to get a scouting report on mileage and extras in the area clubs.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I'm not very interested in "air dances." So, if I'm in a new club, I usually ask the dancer something like "what kind of lapdances do you provide? Are you comfortable with some physical contact?" From my perspective, the more physical contact the better but I very seldom inquire as to the level of physical contact until the LD starts. My goal prior to agreeing to a LD is to rule out the "no touching, air dances"
discussion comment
16 years ago
I like women who can carry their end of a conversation, especially if they are articulate, witty or flirtatious in their conversation. The only topics that are off limits for me are specific details about where I work, where I live, to whom I'm married. I want some semblance of privacy/anonymity so as to avoid any unwanted intrusions into my private life. For her, there would not be too many topics that I would consider to be "inappropriate" other than discussions about an untreated STD that she wanted to tell me about-- it might be "appropriate" in the sense that I'd adjust (actually abolish) my interest in a high contact lap dance or extras but it would certainly be a major turn off. Looks like most of the inappropriate conversations in the above posts generally fall into the "turn off" category.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Any suggestion as to how to determine if a GPS tracking device has been placed in a vehicle (above and beyond looking for the actual device)? On a related topic, isn't it also possible to identify the location of any cell phone, not just Nextel? Presumably, if you shut down the cell phone, its location cannot be detected.
discussion comment
16 years ago
On the other hand,having strippers on the golf course adds another layer of meaning to common golf terms such as:
holing out
up and down
tend the stick
you have honors
how many strokes did you take
washing your ball before teeing off
etc.
discussion comment
16 years ago
This discussion thread would be even more interesting if the posters would identify the clubs, or at least the cities, that were offering more extras for the dollar in this economy. I live in Michigan and many of the girls in the Detroit area clubs (e.g., Penthouse, Bogart's) are very wiling to bargain for extras. Not too surprising given the floundering auto industry and the impact on the dancer's customer base.
discussion comment
16 years ago
If you decide to take the northern route, be sure to stop by the Detroit clubs such as Flight Club and Penthouse (both high end) to mid tier Bogart's to lower tier Henry 8 South. The mileage is excellent, certainly much better than that provided by the Detroit automakers.
discussion comment
16 years ago
From this thread, it appears that Florida gets nods for a high mileage state. I've sampled some of the mileage in the Tampa area--take out from Mons. I'll be in the Florida panhandle soon. Tallahassee appears to be a waste land. How about any scouting reports for mileage in the Panama City or Pensacola area?