discussion comment
5 years ago
It's been covered in previous posts. Short answer - it's a rip off. Stay away.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
I'm rather disappointed to see the overwhelming majority of posts above written with the presumption that an 18-19 year old (or any age for that matter) stripper has chosen a "bad" path, despite her supposedly "good" upbringing.
To be sure, there are women who take on this profession for the wrong reasons (insert you favorite Daddy Issue joke here). But I have met many strippers who chose this as a good option for THEM, based on a mature, well-reasoned rationale: Embracing and owning sexuality, income and schedule flexibility while in school or training, side gig to supplement income from a day job, using the job to fund a future business venture, and sure, meeting older men because they like them for any number of non-"damaged-goods" reason. Many of these had at least one alternative option that they felt were less suitable for them then srtipping.
Way to show the positive side and potential of sex work, guys!
Having said that, generalizing based on age is ultimately a poor strategy. Any PL can take a few moments to talk to a dancer and judge their interest by whatever criteria they want. As long as she is at least 18 (this is a must have) I'll take time to find out if I think there is potential for something; be it a dance, VIP, or something more intimate and/or even long term. I do have my own "stay away list":
Illegal addictive drug users
Dancers with a pimp
Obvious ROB's
Too new to understand the business aspects of sex work - regardless of age
Not attractive to me.
Poor hygiene
discussion comment
5 years ago
I'm wondering how much impact the recent court decisions in California will have on hiring practices, assuming this becomes a nationwide issue. Now that strippers must (eventually) be classified as employees (vs independent contractors) there is a lot of case law that talks about hiring based on BFOQs (Bone fide occupational qualifications). The main theme of these is: A company can only require a candidate to have the qualifications that are relevant to the job. So a company cannot decline to hire someone based on unrelated criteria. For example, a teacher needs to be able to teach students, but requiring a candidate to also clean the restrooms may not be allowed.
The closest case that relates to stripper looks is the case from the airlines (I think it was PanAm) about requiring flight attendants (called "stewardesses" at the time) to be pretty (also female), slim, and young. The court held that the primary purpose of a flight attendant is passenger safety. Attractiveness (by whatever subjective criteria) was not required to keep passengers safe. So now flight attendants cannot be denied hire based on looks, age or gender.
In the stripper world, there may be parallels to consider. What is the primary duty of a stripper? Is it to dance on stage/laps, or is it to sell dances? Ultimately, if a dancer can deliver huge amounts of sales, should the club really care what she looks like? So let's assume for this discussion that the primary duty of a stripper is to sell dances, VIP's and drinks. If the club cannot objectively prove that certain physical attributes are required to make sales, they may not be able to discriminate hiring strippers because they are too "fat", "old", "dark", "short" or whatever. These are going to be too subjective.
So what I suspect they will end up doing to avoid costly litigation, is use a consistent objective criteria, like hourly/weekly/monthly sales. As employees (and de facto sales reps for dances), they can be required to meet a specific minimum target for sales or revenue for the club. If a dancer fails to meet the requirement over some period of time, the club can fire them.
What might be interesting about this is that policy will tend to either prove or disprove all of the ad hoc opinions above that strippers of a certain physical look or age-range will make more money than others. Those dancers who perform poorly (fail to sell) will be removed, regardless of subjective criteria. Those who perform at, or above, target, will survive and thrive. A club need only collect enough data under this policy to eventually create an objective policy about looks - IF - a certain physical trait consistently performs well or poorly. I suspect that they will not. Although there will still be many challenges to firing an under-performing strippers based on allegations about poor training, access to tools/education/coaching, unfair schedules, lack of dressing room amenities, etc. I.e.: If the club used unfair practices to prevent a stripper from being successful, they will be in trouble.
In the end, a club would be eventually more successful if they judged a stripper by actual earnings performance rather than by a subjective judgement about POTENTIAL earnings based on race, looks, age.
NOTE: All of this presumes that the services provided by any given stripper are the same. Strippers who possibly provide extras (if the club gets a share through additional VIPs, drinks, etc.) will earn a higher sales rate. So someone who might not be earning a lot of non-extras revenues might embellish their results by providing extras, recognizing the increased risk of LE, STD's and firing for not following company policy.
I wonder how those clubs that have unionized (in NY?) are addressing this topic?
discussion comment
5 years ago
Classic case of what Journalists call "burying the lead."
The true story here is that Wacko's got raided by the police. What's that all about?
A person in Florida pulling a gun and shooting at people they don't like is so common it's just called a "day in Florida."
And @rickdugan, fortunately, at least 100 pretty girls in Florida turned 18 years old since this story was posted to this forum. So we lose one, we gain 100 for a net improvement of 99. Play the long odds my friend. :)
discussion comment
5 years ago
Another "By the way": If you do give her money with the assumption she will "make it good" next month, get ready to be disappointed. She will still want cash to fuck when you next see her and will forget you already paid or claim that she "just can't have sex without getting paid" - it violates her own rules (i.e.: she's not a 'ho'! Ironic, isn't it?)
It makes no sense, but I've heard it before. She will be incapable of agreeing to have sex without getting paid - even if you sent that money to her 4 weeks in advance. Once a dollar bill hit her hands, it no longer exists. It's gone and if you expect her to put out now, you gotta pay now.
Want to test this? Flip the script: Ask her over for a shag and tell her you will have some cash for her two weeks later. See how that goes.
discussion comment
5 years ago
This is a HUGE overlap with the sugar bowl world.
The short answer is simple: No.
The longer answer is: HELL NO!!
Rationale: If she really needs cash, ley her meet you and you can drop a load into a hole of your choice. Then pay while she wipes up. She will either show up and suck you like you have the last dick on the planet, or she will get it somewhere else.
And poof! You are no longer a dupe. But you are reliable; if she delivers, you deliver.
BTW, you shouldn't care if she really needs rent money or if she's going to use it to go to Vegas an raw dog it with her tattooed, garage band rock and roll, loser boyfriend. You have no rights to audit her spending. And you have no need, either. You ain't "dating".
discussion comment
5 years ago
This is not a problem for guys who are not married or in a monogamous relationship. I use what ever card I want and have no fear of being discovered.
The challenges with anonymous pre-paid cards is that they are the "go to" tool of terrorists and criminal money launderers, especially for cross-border payments. That means using them is a challenge as merchants, processors and banks are constantly under pressure to add additional security measures to "know" the true identity of users (called KYC) and ensure they are not performing nefarious acts (which from your wife's POV, you are). If they suspect bad actors, they are required to freeze all funds and file a report (SAR) with the US Treasury (OFAC) without explaining to you why.
There is a way for a married guy to get a separate, hidden from the wife, legit, non-anonymous payment method that will have low friction for acceptance. Apply for a separate account at a new bank and use an address that is not your residence (like your work address) and a phone that is not your home phone (like a 2nd cell). It will show on your credit report if it's a credit card (not if it's a debit card), so be prepared to explain if she sees your report (card for work, travel, etc.) Also, if (when?) you go through a divorce, it's likely to be discovered by her attorney during a routine asset search. But by then... who cares?
discussion comment
5 years ago
Just took a quick look and signed up - but stopped short of paying.
Not impressed with the site - search tool does not allow for geo areas less than 50 miles. In Los Angeles that's worse than useless.
The few profiles I viewed looked superficial. They only seem to accept (require?) a head shot and the pic gets forced into a square frame even if the pic size is not square. As a result the pics get distorted.
Costs are similar to Seeking. But membership is substantially less and my sense (after an admittedly cursory review) is that it's more like SecretBenefits or Sugardaddyfor.me - aka just a money suck.
Pass.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Totally disagree with almost every post above.
Go to your hotel FIRST and take a hot shower. Use deodorant and LIGHT body spray or cologne. Brush your teeth and use mouthwash.
The take an Uber or taxi to the club of choice and dig in. The bathroom prep time will be well worth the 30 minute delay.
review comment
5 years ago
This place has always looked to me like the "real life" version of a fictional studio set used to make a TV sitcom about strip clubs. Cheer's with bikini dancers if you will...
It is, as the OP points out, a perfect hang spot for PL's that just want to chill and perhaps collect some eye candy, chat up a hot girl or your friendly bartender, and maybe practice your flirting skills to build confidence for those who think they need it.
If you're nearby (on travel for work or ?) and using Uber/Lyft, it's a good place to kill some hours and damage some liver cells. If you are far away - no compelling reason to go IMO.
It's like going to the Buena Vista Coffee Bar near Ghirardelli Square in San Francisco. Go once as a tourist to check the box on your "must visit" list and have the Irish Coffee, then no need to ever return.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Every piece of sage advice I present here is based on a dumb mistake I made in the past. Sometimes more than once. Every-fucking-one!
For me the question isn't "what's the dumbest" it's "are there any mistakes left I haven't made"?
Paid in advance and no show - done that.
Forgot to negotiate what and how much - done that.
Let a "troubled, down on her luck" stripper move in with me until she's back on her feet - done that.
Didn't call BS when the promised BBBJ was just a wet HJ with her long hair covering up - done that.
Invited her for OTC and found her snorting coke in my bathroom - don't that.
Allowed her to upcharge me $$$ for more after a 30-second fake-BJ - done that.
Believed that 20-ish looking hot TJ BG would look just as good arriba when that tight bustier came off, and she was really 40+ with saggy mom-boobs - done that.
Handed a $20 (or $50) to the waitress/mesero and then never getting change back - done that.
Speaking of mereros - handing him a $20 expecting $18 back for a $2 tip while the chica distracts me, then he taps my on my shoulder and sheepishly shows me a $1 bill. I think I'm an idiot and hand him another $20, because I am an idiot - done that.
Speaking of chicas - allowing the hot one to distract me while her fugly friend picks my pocket with the stack of hundies - done that.
Asking too aggressively/too soon for extras from a new girl only to find out she went in the back room and outed me to the rest of the dancers as a creep - done that.
Ignoring or failing to do at least a cursory check for fresh breath/good hygiene before agreeing to a VIP - done that.
Going to the ATM in TJ and thinking my B of A debit card would work, and when it doesn't a "helpful" local tries to help and ends up palming my card and giving me a stolen, bad card - done that.
Using an ATM in the club - done that.
Using my credit card in the club - Hell no! I'm not a fucking idiot! :p
article comment
5 years ago
Agree. Simple and useful advice. Thank you. there are many more tips that can be added (pun intended), but the one I think is most important after following your advice is:
Number Five: If you are going to get any extras (anything more than a "standard" lap dance), negotiate her expected tip and the expected services she will deliver - before you get to the dance area. Nothing worse than seeing her unzip you, pull it out, lick her lips and then look up and say, "I'll need $800 for this, Sweetie."
review comment
5 years ago
Curious why you didn't go to the extensive legal RLD's and select from the 100's of independent providers there. You can easily negotiate the same time & service for less, and that can include BBBJ with some providers. IMO, going to the legal sex clubs just adds a 20%-40% upcharge to you for the business owner's overhead. No increased value for the extra spend. And from my POV actually less value.
My last visit to Amsterdam (though admittedly, it was a long time ago) included a 60 minute session with twin, petite Thai sisters (not identical, but a clear family resemblance). BBBJ w/switching, enthusiastic GFE-ish service w/multiple positions and no condom switch, and I COF on both to finish.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I went to the Dominican Republic in June for vacation.
The club I went to was FULL of illegal immigrants! Not a US citizen in sight giving dances.
Of course they were mostly Latinas - go figure. :p
discussion comment
5 years ago
Have you tried Denny's? :p
article comment
5 years ago
Wow. Just wow.
I had one OTC experience with a stripper that without my knowledge brought coke and snorted up in my bathroom while I was waiting on my bed. When she asked me if I wanted any - and I realized what she was talking about - I handed her clothes to her and told her get dressed. I paid her what we had agreed to - it wasn't worth the possible scene to not pay - and dropped her off at the club.
Later I texted her and told her I would not invite her over again and that I would ignore her if I saw her in the club. I wished her well and deleted her number from my phone. I have seen her 3 or 4 times since at the club and I don't talk to her or even acknowledge she is there.
No illicit drugs, please. It just isn't worth it - even for unplanned (and unfinished!) anal.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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CJKent (Banned)“The more a person needs to be right, the less certain he is...”
First, that dude is NOT a sugar daddy. He's too young and poor.
Next, we seem to see news articles often about the outliers of sugar amounts, like $3,800 for a single date. I suppose that the people writing these articles, who probably have an anti-sugar POV, never do enough research to find out what the average sugar arrangement looks like. And shock value in headlines gets readers.
Last, I agree with Papi; this marriage is doomed. I'll give him 6 months before he re-ups his Seeking account and starts banging SB's on the side. And I'm guessing she's keeping her waitress job and will be writing her number of the bottom of checks whenever she serves a guy who looks rich.
Might be interesting to see if either of them has deactivated their profiles on Seeking.
review comment
5 years ago
Agreed. Great review. Well done. The clear take away is: 1. hot chicks, 2. GPS pricing w/low mileage, and 3. the same extends to potential OTC. That lines up with my experiences there.
But back in the day (late 80's) I had a PL colleague who used 4P as his personal stable of 9+ OTC babes. This was before any sugar daddy sites, but I like to think that this guy set the model for sugaring. He was a lawyer - corp contracts or some such - and regularly travelled for lawyer work up and down California. He'd leave his two teen age kids and MILFy wife behind for 3 day trips about twice a month, always with a companion. He'd book 4 star hotels, 4 star restaurants, and take her shopping for top-shelf designer crap (like Jimmy Choo shoes) plus provide $$$$$ in cash for her folding money. I once estimated he had a annual OTC run rate of $300k+! Impressive.
Anyway, the point is, "expensive", like so many other aspects of the PL life, is subjective. But holy fuck! $1,500 for overnight is Porn-Star escort rates - and they get tested every 2 weeks.
review comment
5 years ago
@Papi_Chulo, that is the reason I usually get change for a $20 on entry if I don't have small bills in my pocket. It certainly isn't for rail tipping, which I rarely do.
review comment
5 years ago
Review Quote of the Month Award Winner!
"I hate seeing piss just sitting there."
Congratulations and well done!
discussion comment
5 years ago
@twentyfive... no need for clarification from me. You guys got this. :p
discussion comment
5 years ago
I think, therefore I go to In-n-Out.
Good talk.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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LiwetIf she walks away smiling, you spent too much.
My dick (like my libido) is color blind, especially in a dark VIP booth.
The OP's question is based on an invalid premise - that somehow a "white" strippers' services are better than a "black" strippers' services.
Having paid for laps, VIP, ITC, OTC and sugar from a wide variety of ethnicities, I reject that premise and say that what I am willing to pay, what I offer and what I accept are based on many factors: body shape, face, personality, communication skills, hygiene (hers and mine at that time), belief in the fantasy, belief in the level of service I will receive, club prices before any negotiated tip, dance/service area conditions, my current level of horny, my current cash on hand, who I am with, club aspects like risk of getting busted, scammed, or worse.... it goes on... If there's a place to consider skin, it's usually more about skin aspects that make her less attractive like scars, stretch marks, pimples, tats, firmness, etc. I cannot recall in 30+ years of being a PL a single time I consciously decided to "pay $nnn more because she is white...
Now skinny, Asian spinners between 18-23... that's entirely different! :p
discussion comment
5 years ago
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azddOn the prowl in Tucson and Phoenix
@twentyfive, that "well publicized event" has already happened... about 3 years ago.
There was a huge kerfuffle when a Google senior exec was found dead on his yacht. He did from an injected drug overdose. It seems he had a sugar date with a woman he found on Seeking. She lived in the Midwest (OK?) and had a profiles set up in every major city. She also had high-end escort ads (Eros?) in every major city.
The Daddy flew her to the Bay area and they went to the yacht to party and play. According to the story, she either injected him with the overdose, or watched him do it to himself. Either way, she just watched him die, collected her stuff and her sugar allowance and left. We know this because the boat had video cameras set up all over. She was arrested and eventually charged with manslaughter. The Seeking leadership/legal team went into overdrive to distance themselves and position the site as anything but prostitution. Heat and scrutiny of the site eventually wore off. In my opinion, it actually worked to their advantage as many, many women who had no idea of sugaring suddenly found a new ways to make some cash without "hooking." (Ironic, isn't it?)
What IS pissing in Seeking' cornflakes now is last year's passage of FOSTA/SETSA federal laws on illegal sex trafficking which the "right" has pushed quite effectively (if not accurately) to conflate with prostitution. So, not all sex workers are trafficked sex slaves. And not all strippers are hookers.
As far as I know, no Daddy (or Mommy) has been arrested or prosecuted as a result of using the site. But there are some (unsubstantiated?) reports of LE placing decoy Daddy profiles and doing hooker stings arrests. So keep your messages on the site PG only and never send or agree to any "quid pro quo" type of language. Move your negotiations to face to face, or at least to an encrypted message service.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I lived in South San Jose for 9 years. Came back home to LA (SFV) 3 years ago. Much good intel above from PL's who still live in the Bay Area. Spot on.
For me when I was really jonesing for a good SC experience, I headed back to the SF Valley for a weekend. And that's how/why I turned to sugaring while I was still up north. Found dozens of hotties ready to "date" a Daddy for less than the going rate for a (fake-hands only) BJ at NCT in SF.
If I just wanted eye candy, the best in the South Bay (i.e.: San Jose area) was Cheetahs on E Arques Ave. They attract brand new, young hotties who dance nude (no touching, no booze) and a usually fun to talk to. But zero friction, and (near) zero chance of OTC (until they are over 50 and get hired at the Pink Poodle).
Spearmint Rhino in downtown, is useless (an no parking).
AJ's Bar is a pool-table, biker and bikini dancer bar (like Candy Cat in SFV)
Brass Rail is full booze bar and bikini dancers. The dancers are generally 7+. No laps as far as I can recall, and certainly no VIP's.
The one redeeming type of place in SJ was already mentioned by you. Vietnamese Coffee Shops. These are not strip clubs. They are "breastaraunts" serving coffee/tea and snacks from skimpy bikini wearing Asian girls. No nudity, but heavy flirting for tips, and maybe a naughty flash for big tippers/regulars. As far as I know the only possible way to even get close to finding OTC is to also be Vietnamese (in other words, a down low "family" member. You can find them on yelp if you search carefully along the 87 Freeway, near downtown, or further north in Milpitas. These are similar to the Viet Coffee houses in Glendae, east of LA.