tuscl

Something strippers don't seem to understand - Hiring Standards

PaulDrake
Off again on again PL
Tuesday, October 8, 2019 1:08 PM
So recently there was a discussion on the reddit stripper forum about a plus sized dancer who was wanting to audition: [view link] It seems like that sort of discussion happens a lot and one comment that I tend to see over and over is how "guys like all types" and it is unfair it is that mean managers won't hire girls who don't fit the traditionally attractive mold. Look I think it's great that there are a a minority of guys out there that like bigger girls (or other non-traditionally attractive types). But what I think strippers don't understand is that the majority of guys don't come to the strip club to see girls like that and are less likely to visit clubs that hire fat girls. If a strip club manager wants their club to make the most money they have to limit the amount of fat girls they hire. Although far more controversial the same logic even applies to managers not hiring black girls. I don't see personal racial bias in strip club managers hiring decisions. On average guys are significantly less attracted to black girls (not my opinion I'm citing statistical public data). Locally we had a new club open that had black owners who were willing to hire pretty much any black girls that showed up. When the club opened it was a mixed club but the percentage of black dancers continually increased until it reached a tipping point and the club just transitioned to a black club.

100 comments

  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Lol just yesterday a girl gently chided me somewhere when I told somebody else to give a club a try when auditioning, but she was a “reach” candidate. I was just giving an honest assessment cause I’ve worked at that club before. But nooo its all about “confidence” 🙄
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Also another interesting observation noticed: So many dudes on this site talk about prefering certain demographics: the AA dancers or otherwise darker skin minority dancers, the older dancers, and the ones who aren’t necessarily and 8-10 because they are easier to get higher mileage and up from. And dancers will support the sisterhood on stuff and that it’s mean for management to snub them. But a bunch of us also hate extras as well. Which seems like an odd catch 22 there. If you want a more “liberal” work environment, it may well be you have to become okay with being surrounded by more “liberal” activities.
  • PaulDrake
    •
    5 years ago
    @nicespice - Guys who aren't attracted to black dancers are afraid to say as they don't want to be labeled as a racist. I think guys specifically on TUSCL who like younger girls are also a little afraid to speak up since a few have been labeled as pedos (not sure where that came from).
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Less controversial observation of us dancers wanting it all: I’m starting to get the impression that a lot of these lower mileage areas tend to be less travel friendly in general. And us dancers like places to be easily travel friendly and not deal with nonsense like that and will gladly bring up that we’re supposed to be independent contractors. But it seems there’s a loose correllary between naughtiness and how xenophobic a club scene is. (Minneapolis, Denver, San Francisco, etc) I’d put Portland on that list too. I’m just lucky to have found a club that caters to the whims of the 18-20 year strippers. Which means I can get away with shit like leaving the club for two hours and coming back...for no other reason than I feel like it. 😁
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    My ATF DS is a PAWG and she has been denied hire for it at the bigger gentleman's style clubs out here. She was told directly to lose weight or even when she was hired to cover up her stomach. She's proven that the policy is laughable because she always does well at any club she works. Personally I think a club should hire for diversity and always have a few strippers that look outside of a certain mold. So yes, they should have a "token" fat girl and black girl and whatever atypical type of girl. Not saying they need a lot of them, just a few that are there for all customers. To me to fill a club with just one type of look isn't good business sense and can cause those customers that like the nontraditional look to do their business elsewhere. The issue works both ways in my book.
  • datinman
    •
    5 years ago
    Dancing is a profession. A lot of strippers go to the gym, use tanning beds, learn to do pole tricks, etc. to increase their earnings. Why should an over-weight girl be hired simply because she is female and willing to take your clothes off. It not mean, it's supply and demand.
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    @Paul, yeah I can believe that. It can be rough acknowledging harsh truths @sirlap my suggestion would be either coolsculpting or Lipo+tummy tuck, then she could keep her goodies AND be more “marketable” 😁 But from how you described things, she does well enough so it doesn’t really matter.
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    But silver lining to black dancers: I think many of them age better better than white counterparts. And don’t have to spend nearly the same amount on Botox, etc to “keep up”. So if they can survive the bullshit, I feel like they have a better advantage if dancing is a long term thing.
  • Subraman
    •
    5 years ago
    I have actually been to a strip club where the inmates ran the asylum ... er, I mean, the girls took over ownership and management of the club. One of the first things they imposed was a "all women are beautiful and have a place here" ethic. The result was a pretty horrible lineup on any particular day; I only went to that club once, but it was scary. Continuing to display the smarts and business competence that made them qualified to run a strip club, they also imposed "no lap dances" and "we all share tips evenly" rules, which combined drastically limited the earnings potential of the few attractive girls, who evidently never stayed long. The Lusty Lady itself is gone, too. Anyway, just as I realize that when PLs give strippers advice, it's often incredibly self-serving and actually against her interest (even if the PL means well and doesn't realize it), that goes triple for strippers giving advice to management on who to hire.
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    @nicespice she did get some lipo & a tuck. It helped her look but she ended back at the same club just because she was comfortable there and could come and go as she pleased.
  • FishHawk
    •
    5 years ago
    I live in the backwater area of strip clubs. There is always a real mix of ages, body types, ethnicities and beauty levels. I have to admit I have enjoyed dances from young, older, thin, thick, tiny boobs and the well endowed. The real criteria is personality. Someone that approaches me is getting a heads up. However I was once accosted by two dancers so scary I put down my drink and left.
  • PaulDrake
    •
    5 years ago
    @sirLDalot - I don't think you are seeing the point. The fact that your ATF can "make money" is meaningless. If they club has too many PAWG already working there it is in the best interest of the manager to reject her. Or guys (who don't like PAWG) will come in and say "dude there are no hot girls working here" and leave. That koolaid is the same nonsense that dancers get hung up on. There was a REALLY old dancer at bucks who got fired. She was successful, had a lot of regulars, and made a lot of money. But to a random casual customer who just walked in the club she was a definite turn off. Not even getting into the secondary issues like fat dancers are more likely to try pity hustles. Or black dancers who will accost customers for rejecting them. Or older veteran dancers who are more likely to stand up to management and organize other dancers to resist policies they don't like. Maybe I'm too much of a stoic but I can understand why managers make the decisions they do.
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    @Paul I got the point completely and why I posted this whole paragraph... "Personally I think a club should hire for diversity and always have a few strippers that look outside of a certain mold. So yes, they should have a "token" fat girl and black girl and whatever atypical type of girl. Not saying they need a lot of them, just a few that are there for all customers. To me to fill a club with just one type of look isn't good business sense and can cause those customers that like the nontraditional look to do their business elsewhere. The issue works both ways in my book." And to further my point, if those few "token" strippers turn away business, there's a good chance that they also solicit new business. As stated, the issue goes both ways. Ultimately IMHO a diverse stripper demographic covers all the bases better than a one-way dancer look.
  • PaulDrake
    •
    5 years ago
    @nicespice - From your response can I assume you mean to convey that guys who are afraid to say publicly that they are not attracted to black girls are racists? Or that guys who are afraid to say they prefer 18-20yo strippers are pedophiles? I have a response if that is the case I don't agree but I don't want to waste time forming a logical response if that is not the case.
  • PaulDrake
    •
    5 years ago
    @sirLDalot - (please read this with a hint of sarcasm) Yeah... diversity that makes sense... Maybe we could run some sort of experiment and see if that would make all clubs more successful or not? Oh wait... hasn't the free market already done that experiment for us? Aren't the highest end clubs the ones with the most stringent hiring standards?
  • Hank Moody
    •
    5 years ago
    I have a pretty wide spectrum and can find someone I like in a lot of different clubs. Dives or high end. It doesn’t matter. I’ll vote with my cash. If I like the club and girls I’ll return. I don’t care if a club wants to be all white, black, young, old. If I have a good time I’ll be back. Some managers’ hiring preferences are immediately evident when you see the lineup — BSC in Phoenix, or Mons Venus. Others go for variety. Others are much more subtle about what type of dancers they have, like the Ebony Inn. Make a statement if you want, club owners, and hire for diversity. Or don’t. I don’t care. I’ll stop by anyway. Or I won’t.
  • shadowcat
    •
    5 years ago
    There are a lot of shit hole clubs that just hire whoever applies. And then there is Follies. Their problem is trying to balance the ratio of dancers to customers. The city has cited them twice for overcrowding. Once more may get them shut down. Maximum capacity is 280. You can't let 160 dancers work on day shift Saturdays. That would only allow 120 customers.
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    ^ I get the impression follies is a very successful club. Surprised they haven’t looked into expanding the building size or opening a second location
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    I know one instance where the free market forced more diversity—and that’s Palazio in Austin. There was a time it was mostly skinny blondes. But then there was a complaint on either Yelp or google reviews about it all being blondes and they allowed more types in—except black girls. But then some time later there was an online review that complained there was no black girls, so sometime in 2018 or so I noticed they allowed a few black girls to work there. The club still definitely has its preference tho.
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    @PaulDrake in my experience, as proven by my anecdotal observation of "free market" at work, in many cities, the best clubs have those "token" strippers and hence the diversity I'm talking about. It doesn't matter what city or area... Phoenix, the Bay Area, Albuquerque, Seattle, Portland, New York, Sacramento/Reno. I have no idea what these successful clubs hiring "standards" are. I'm just saying they are successful because they cover more bases and provide more options than the club's that don't diversify to some degree.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Some clubs do have hiring standards. For one thing, they want all the girls to be able to make money, while still following the rules. Other clubs do not have such standards. For one thing, it is no big privilege to work there. For another thing, the owners do not care if the rules are followed. The written rules are just for plausible deniability. The owners know that you want some dancers who will be more aggressive, accept less money, and generally light a fire under the others. When new girls come and look, they look over the current crew, and try to figure if they can take them. As the patronage level goes up, the club can hire hotter looking dancers. But to get started, you just take all that apply. Dancers don't have to please the management. They don't have to please all the customers either. Just so long as some guys like them. In a high mileage place they will only have to deal with the guys who like them. I know this from watching our underground clubs, and by talking to the talent agents and the dancers, and by watching how some clubs have gone when they went UHM. SJG
  • Musterd21
    •
    5 years ago
    I must say I like all girls thick and skinny. If they are nice they will get my money. lol
  • mark94
    •
    5 years ago
    More than once, I’ve had plus-sized AA dancers start a conversation with “ Do you like black women ?”. I feel like saying “Only the good looking good ones”. But, of course, I can’t.
  • herbtcat
    •
    5 years ago
    I'm wondering how much impact the recent court decisions in California will have on hiring practices, assuming this becomes a nationwide issue. Now that strippers must (eventually) be classified as employees (vs independent contractors) there is a lot of case law that talks about hiring based on BFOQs (Bone fide occupational qualifications). The main theme of these is: A company can only require a candidate to have the qualifications that are relevant to the job. So a company cannot decline to hire someone based on unrelated criteria. For example, a teacher needs to be able to teach students, but requiring a candidate to also clean the restrooms may not be allowed. The closest case that relates to stripper looks is the case from the airlines (I think it was PanAm) about requiring flight attendants (called "stewardesses" at the time) to be pretty (also female), slim, and young. The court held that the primary purpose of a flight attendant is passenger safety. Attractiveness (by whatever subjective criteria) was not required to keep passengers safe. So now flight attendants cannot be denied hire based on looks, age or gender. In the stripper world, there may be parallels to consider. What is the primary duty of a stripper? Is it to dance on stage/laps, or is it to sell dances? Ultimately, if a dancer can deliver huge amounts of sales, should the club really care what she looks like? So let's assume for this discussion that the primary duty of a stripper is to sell dances, VIP's and drinks. If the club cannot objectively prove that certain physical attributes are required to make sales, they may not be able to discriminate hiring strippers because they are too "fat", "old", "dark", "short" or whatever. These are going to be too subjective. So what I suspect they will end up doing to avoid costly litigation, is use a consistent objective criteria, like hourly/weekly/monthly sales. As employees (and de facto sales reps for dances), they can be required to meet a specific minimum target for sales or revenue for the club. If a dancer fails to meet the requirement over some period of time, the club can fire them. What might be interesting about this is that policy will tend to either prove or disprove all of the ad hoc opinions above that strippers of a certain physical look or age-range will make more money than others. Those dancers who perform poorly (fail to sell) will be removed, regardless of subjective criteria. Those who perform at, or above, target, will survive and thrive. A club need only collect enough data under this policy to eventually create an objective policy about looks - IF - a certain physical trait consistently performs well or poorly. I suspect that they will not. Although there will still be many challenges to firing an under-performing strippers based on allegations about poor training, access to tools/education/coaching, unfair schedules, lack of dressing room amenities, etc. I.e.: If the club used unfair practices to prevent a stripper from being successful, they will be in trouble. In the end, a club would be eventually more successful if they judged a stripper by actual earnings performance rather than by a subjective judgement about POTENTIAL earnings based on race, looks, age. NOTE: All of this presumes that the services provided by any given stripper are the same. Strippers who possibly provide extras (if the club gets a share through additional VIPs, drinks, etc.) will earn a higher sales rate. So someone who might not be earning a lot of non-extras revenues might embellish their results by providing extras, recognizing the increased risk of LE, STD's and firing for not following company policy. I wonder how those clubs that have unionized (in NY?) are addressing this topic?
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Some clubs want to maintain a uniform high looks standard, and they want the rules to be followed. Others want the exact opposite. SJG
  • mark94
    •
    5 years ago
    It seems like the legal standards of the entertainment industry should apply to stripping. You don’t see many fat ballerinas. Not even athletic ones.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    "legal standards"? SJG
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Anyways, from a personal standpoint: I can get on board with the viewpoint of oh yeah, screw fat dancers if they wanna complain about stuff. They should either diet, excercise, or lipo their way with the rest of us. But when it’s because they are black, I admit that makes me feel a little bit of guilt. I don’t think I have quite the same privilege as a blue eyed blond haired dancer, but I don’t feel as if I’ve ever been disadvantaged in any way and thinking about it makes me feel a bit guilty. Especially, when I stop to think of it. Any small thing that smacks of urbanization is what makes the clubs more fun IMO. Such as money being thrown and fast paced music. And dealing with customers who want to have FUN and party. So I especially feel bad as a beneficiary of being in club environments that allow small adoptions of urban clubs (tho definitely controlled on adopting all the attributes). Here was a small snippet of a review of the Hustlers movie, that pointed out some inaccuracies: “Then there’s Ramona’s showstopping stage set, ostensibly circa 2007 in a Manhattan strip club, and from everything I know, it’s totally inaccurate for a very good reason: an accurate representation of an upscale Manhattan club’s stage show in the mid aughts would be boring fucking moviemaking. In Hustlers, guys in suits are making it rain while Ramona does pole tricks in a rhinestoned playsuit. In reality, “upscale” clubs made dancers wear floor-length “classy” gowns and wouldn’t allow them to do floor moves or pole tricks. Some of these places even banned Pleasers and made dancers keep wearing those painful 5″ stilettos, can you imagine? Wall Street guys were most decidedly not making it rain while Fat Joe played. Busting out the black Amex while an endless soundtrack of techno thumped, sure, but not throwing bands. But that’s a case were realism would have made for one snooze of a scene! Better that they take their inspiration from clubs like the Queens one where the movie was filmed. Most of the things that make a strip club fun and not boring these days, like great stage performances and good music, stem from Black dancers and artists. They have been at the vanguard of club culture and fashion while facing blatant racism when working in clubs with white ownership and management, and colorism in all clubs. All the fun parts of strip club culture—all the stuff in Lopez’s big opening number where she’s being showered with money—are the things that stuffy chain clubs try to block with dress codes and bans on rap music.”
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Again, select the one you like and approach and engage as you like. SJG
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    But I do believe in some parts of the country, the industry has already evolved and even upscale clubs have to allow some of this stuff. In other regions or clubs, they can hold firm in how they do things.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    "... Most of the things that make a strip club fun and not boring these days, like great stage performances and good music, stem from Black dancers and artists ..." This is a bit of a miopic view - strip clubs were around and "fun" b/f rap-music and rain-making - plus rap music and rain-making does not constitute fun for everyone especially if you are a 50 y/o business-man which one could argue it is middle-aged guys that often spend better than the young-guys looking for a party - perhaps a "party atmosphere" may get more people thru the door but I don't think it would lead to dancers making better $$$ - IMO a party-atmosphere often gets in the way of those custies that wanna spend well via lap-dances or VIP - IMO/IME the custies that go mainly for the "party" and stage show are more often than not just spectators and may do a little tipping here and there if that - IMO, w/ some exceptions, the guys that do the heavy spending in clubs, particularly on a regular basis, are not the ones looking for a fun party spot and often tend to be the middle-aged guys or close to it - i.e. having a "fun" club IMO may not be the best thing for the bottom-line.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    Me being into black-dancers, I used to assume that the main-reason many mixed-clubs hired very-few, if any, black-dancers, was b/c of custy preference - I assume that is true to a large extent as the avg white custy probably usually prefers the looks of a white-dancer - not saying this applies to every white-custy but seems to be kinda the norm from what I see on TUSCL and the clubs I hit - and I assume it can be argued that the avg black custy prefers black dancers. It wasn't till I joined TUSCL where I heard another POV as to why many clubs may be reluctant to hire too-many black-dancers, and that being that the club may then become "too black" - i.e. black dancers seemingly not having the same opportunities as white dancers, it seems when they see a good club that hires black-dancers that a lot of the black-dancers then go to that club, and often the more black-dancers the more black custies and one gets the white-flight effect - I'm not saying this is right or fair, just that there may be another variable at play as to the unwillingness of clubs to hire too-many black dancers and it may not just be b/c of custy preference although that perhaps may be the main-factor.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Some clubs have such hiring standards, and these tend to be the places where the rules are the rules. And other clubs are the opposite. So long as you can find on dancer you like and approach her, there should be no problem. But if you wait and let dancers approach you and let them see that you are ambivalent about them, don't be surprised if it goes negative. SJG
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    In this country whites are the majority and it seems on avg whites have a preference for a particular look, often thin with a small ass is seen as what is beautiful - I assume this is the reason why there isn't as much diversity in many clubs and why a woman that is voluptuous and curvy is often gonna be seen as "too big to be a dancer" - it seems now a days in many clubs one either finds girls w/ small-tits or fake-tits - for the most part girls w/ bigger natural breasts are not gonna be the small and/or thin girls, they will usually have larger frames and be thicker and have more meat on them - but it seems for many that a girl w/ meat on her is automatically fat - i.e. if she's not thin then she's too-big and too-fat. Not every woman has to be 120-lbs and under to look attractive; it just seems that many consider those to be the only ones that are attractive and thus what may be a bit of discrimination against the bigger girls which are o/w attractive but just bigger and more voluptuous for many people's taste. I don't necessarily think any girl that wants to dance should be hired, but I do think there are many clubs that are too-stringent when it comes to variety whether it'd be body-type of color - I think having more variety of dancer will be serve the overall custy-base vs having overwhelmingly having one type of dancer.
  • boomer79
    •
    5 years ago
    Target markets are a thing. There is something to be said for understanding who your customers are and making sure you are the preferred destination for them. Frankly it can be a turnoff if there are too many dancers in a place that really aren't your type. Maybe some dancers would do better in a place with a clientele that is better matched to their preferences. Of course there are tradeoffs. I like the VIP mileage at Follies, but I really don't like the club environment and honestly when I go there I'm only interested in a few of the girls. Of course I love the club environment at the Cheetah, and I very much like the girls they hire. However it's nearly impossible to get the mileage I want there. There are lots of tradeoffs. Personally the dream scenario would be people going to clubs with other people with similar preferences and be catered to. That's difficult though for a variety of reasons. I do know that for me big booties and hip hop in a club are a turn off.
  • Clubber
    •
    5 years ago
    Drake, I have no problem saying I don't care for black dancers or any dark skinned dancer no matter their ethnic makeup. Not because what they are, but my preference is seeing the contrast of areoles/nipples and the rest of their breasts. It's as simple as that.
  • mark94
    •
    5 years ago
    It’s Brand Management. A strip club’s brand is defined by its dancers. Managing the brand is how you position the business and implement your business model.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    Part of the problem seems that guys that like a certain type seem to be intolerant of other types of dancers in the club even if there are dancers their type - i.e. guys that like the small thin girls seem to want all the dancers to be that way in the club
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Identify the one you like, and then approach her and make it happen with her. SJG
  • boomer79
    •
    5 years ago
    What someone is or is not attracted to is their own business. I don't think they should be judged for that even if it does show bias because it's such a deeply personal thing. I realize some people may not want to say they're not attracted to certain races or body types, but that's a personal preference, and we all know most people have ideas about what they're attracted to. Most of the girls I'm attracted to are white spinners, and they will probably fall somewhere between 18-35. Probably most of that group in the 18-28 range. Sometimes I'm attracted to Asian and Latina girls, but I also prefer for them to be spinner types. The truth is most of my friends feel the same way although some wouldn't feel comfortable straight out saying it. People like me could keep a club very busy. Of course other markets can be supported else where. I have no desire to go to Magic City, but I understand they are doing a booming business, and I'm glad they do well there and their customers enjoy it.
  • mark94
    •
    5 years ago
    Yeah, I think we’ve entered an era where a preference for a certain type of woman can be evidence of...........RACISM ! Hell, we’re close to a point where a preference for women is proof of homophobia.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    ^^^ Identify the one you want and approach her yourself. Problem solved. SJG
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    I think there is a bias beyond "hey I like what I like" - the way it often comes across is as if guys into small thin girls are put off by the mere presence of any dancers that are not their preferred type; the club can be 70% small thin girls and many bitch b/c there is a % of girls there not to their liking. I don't think any one is saying small thin girls should not be hired, just that they should not be the only thin hired in a club; butthere seems to be a bias where non small/thin girls are in many places not hired just b/c they don't have a small-build whereas the opposite does not happen.
  • twentyfive
    •
    5 years ago
    I think there might be more to it than just preferences, my guess is that certain dancer types use up most of the oxygen (money) in the room, and the girls that don't fit the look have a harder time making bank, so they end up quitting quicker leaving the girls that are making money, and it just isn't as simple as just hiring standards, there is also work ethic that comes into play, as most are still IC, status not employees that has an effect as well. I think its more complicated than simple.
  • pistola
    •
    5 years ago
    The problem is the damn democrats have brainwashed this country. With their free fucking handouts and participation trophies they’ve brainwashed these females to think that all vaginas are created equal. They’re not. Some are fat and sloppy so,e are tight and pink. The tight and pink ones make more money, the fat and sloppy ones are snowflakes that just need to wake up and realize life is not fair. Lol
  • Book Guy
    •
    5 years ago
    The question isn't, whether or not I (or any other individual customer) would be interested in spending money with the particularly large dancer. Some random guys WILL be interested. the question is, whether MOST OTHER guys who are NOT interested in her will stay in the club and spend money on other girls, or get so turned OFF by the large dancer that the customers leave. I know that the turn-OFF quotient for me can be MUCH more motivating than the turn-ON quotient. Hiring decisions are rightly geared toward the mainstream of tastes even IF there are potentially other tastes among the customers. That's not because the hiring is willing to fail to serve the interests of certain less common customers. Rather, it's because the hiring is NOT willing to DRIVE AWAY the more common customers.
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    I'm picky as fuck with my strippers. I pretty much won't settle below an 8 (on my subjective scale) and she has to be all natural with an hourglass figure. As long as there's just one like this and she's available I don't care what other strippers in the club look like. So no, a fat or a stripper that's not my type is going to drive me away from a particular club. I actually am surprised it's even an issue.
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    ^ *isn't* going to drive me away from a particular club
  • PaulDrake
    •
    5 years ago
    @herbcat - Your comment mentions the idea that dancers should be judged by their earnings performance. I'm not sure that a club manager would agree. Just because a dancer can earn money it still might be in a managers best interest to hire said dancer. @sirLDalot - Refferencing your latest comment you are only looking at it from your perspective. Imagine you are the club manager where you ATFDS works. 20 BBW girls walk who all want a job. Do you hire them? If you do the club is going to lose money as casual customers who just come in to watch the stage and have a beer are going to leave.
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    @PaulDrake of course it's my perspective and what I'm saying is that those customers that leave because they see an unattractive stripper (to them) are stupid and that those mangers that cater to that stupidity might also be losing customers to stripper types that they DIDN'T hire.
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    I wish my wife would chime in on this. It seems like she’s worked at several clubs that had a wider range on whether dancers were conventionally attractive or not. And consistently it seemed like the, erm, bigger girls who made money consistently had a reason. Which I guess is good for some customers. Tho clearly not all. @pauldrake you spoke about the hotter dancers at Bucks migrating to other clubs. Did any of them come back?
  • mark94
    •
    5 years ago
    This discussion has caused me to reflect on two clubs in Phoenix that have been consistently popular for the last decade. Hi Liter has always had a variety of dancers. Mostly white, sure, but other ethnic types and body shapes. It’s heyday is behind it, but it’s generally a place where there is at least one dancer for you no matter what your preference. There is also a lot of diversity in dance quality, from air dance to extras. Bourbon Street is a 7 up club with white, fit, pretty dancers. Even the quality of the dances is standardized. No extras, ever, but it’s sensual enough to keep you coming back. Both business models work. I find myself drawn to both clubs though they offer very different experiences. There are other clubs in town with different business models. Some have Latina dancers. Some are AA. Some are late night party places. They manage to stay in business so they must have a customer base, but it’s not me.
  • PaulDrake
    •
    5 years ago
    @nicespice - YAAASSSSS we do need your wife to chime in. And yes I do think there is some correlation to bigger girls doing cheap extras and upsetting the market driving away the hotter girls. Also you never responded to my pedofile/racist questions.
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    @mark94 the bigger question is would you leave or stop going to BSC just because there were 1-2 "token" non-white & not fit dancers? BTW I used to love BSC and Christie's back in the day.
  • Muddy
    •
    5 years ago
    Really good thread. In talking with some people at SC's one thing I take away is the feeling that if you hire too many black dancers, as in more than a small minority, your club becomes a hip hop ghetto club and there's no going back due to the clientele that often attracts. I think that is whispered about in inner circles. I don't know if a lot of clubs are in a situation to be picky. Some of these strip clubs have some of the hottest girls I've ever seen. They are really rare. If I had a club of my own, I would probably rather have it packed with a bunch of fugly dancers then have a club with 4 alright dancers. And just hope some raincoaters come in and have a field day.
  • chessmaster
    •
    5 years ago
    I generally like a variety. I think those clubs are also more tolerant of a variety of customers and I usually dont have as much fun as places with only old white guys. No offense to old white guys. They are a good target audience for anything sales related. As the saying goes there's no money without white money. Point being, you're product has to appeal to white people somewhat. But papi has a point. I have been to "upscale" all white clubs with white chicks that look anorexic. All skinny white girls. And no diversity whatsoever. Seems like a lot of white guys rather have a anorexic white chick than a healthy weight(not fat or thick or any other euphemism) white woman let alone a black woman. It doesnt kill me if there's a few hos that arent my "type".
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    My experience has been generally the girls that are very displeasing to the eye who are always banking are definitely going the extra mile or 10. That being said- I do think some variety is good. I prefer clubs with all races of girls, but will say the few times I've ended up outnumbered by Mexican or black girls in a few clubs that my money has definitely suffered. So I still want there to be more white than anything else. I fucking hate working clubs that are nothing but white girls or like 80 or 90% white though. It is just nothing but drama. A lot of white American girls simply can't stand me and the way I act and talk. I think they hate me just for breathing because I've never done a damn thing to them for them to hate me so much from club to club. I think the ideal club should have all races and some variety of bodies within reason. There should be some skinny girls, more at a healthy athletic/toned size, a few thicker girls but still the right shape. I wouldn't want anything straight up fat there though, but maybe 1 token fat girl is ok like sir says. Because I know there is a market for them- but it is a rather *small* market just saying. Especially at clubs. I think there is more $$$ love for them on the webcam sites.
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    Oh and I don't think age should matter. I don't get the big deal. I've seen hot ass 40ish strippers with incredible bodies still banking. The guy that passes up miss hotass 40 something for a mediocre semi-cute 18 year old that isn't even toned hmm.. He must either be a pedofile or he likes to control and manipulate younger, more gullible/inexperienced girls. I will not be persuaded otherwise in my assessment here.
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    You know if the club let 15 year olds work that these old decrepit 50 year old men who go for the 18s would start going for the 15s instead. LOL
  • datinman
    •
    5 years ago
    Wait a minute. A 40 something dancer can be "miss hotass", but I became a decrepit old man when I turned 50? I guess I'll have to tape singles to my walker just to get some attention when I go to the club.
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    "I think the ideal club should have all races and some variety of bodies within reason." ^ @🔪🔪🔪23 amen! That's basically what I'm trying to say. The diversity of the strippers is proportionate to the preferences of all clientele. This is the most ideal.
  • Evasparkling
    •
    5 years ago
    I usually don’t have any incentive to return to a strip club that’s only filled with either Skinny White Girls OR Blonde Bimbos. An Idea Strip Club should have a diverse selection of strippers including White Strippers, Black Strippers & Latina Strippers. Plus two or three Asian Strippers in the mix wouldn’t hurt anyone as well. My default preference as always is a Big Booty Black Stripper.
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    ^ right. Yeah I feel like clubs shoot themselves in the foot having no black/latinas at all. Asians are kinda rare in a lot of clubs and areas in general so no comment on that. They would get hired, they just aren't there lmao
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    Oh okay then. In reply to: —>”From your response can I assume you mean to convey that guys who are afraid to say publicly that they are not attracted to black girls are racists? “ Hmm, that is a loaded way to phrase it IMO. In a nutshell, I’d say yes there’s racism at a societal level at play. But not in a way that a single individual customer can condemned for his lack of attraction. Like, I think if racism wasn’t a thing, then yes black women would be considered more attractive on a society level. Even if they don’t have more “European” like facial features like Halle Berry or Beyoncé. An adult man can have been trained to have cultural sensitivity. And not treat black women poorly. And still have his preferences because hey, many of us are creatures of habit. Vanilla cake was your favorite dessert as a child and it carried over into adulthood and stuff. That being said, one thing I’ve heard NUMEROUSLY from black dancers, to the point that I can’t really dismiss what they say, is being the brunt of larger asshole behavior. I’ve heard of black dancers complaining of white dancers nearby getting $500 for being charming and pretty, while those same exact men are hard bargaining them for extras at $300. There is definitely some gleeful racism coming from those men. —>”Or that guys who are afraid to say they prefer 18-20yo strippers are pedophiles?” As for the second comment about age. Hmm...I do think quite a few customers misjudge me for being 18-19 and I have no problems selling dances LOL I remember when I was still working at my first club ever (I was 22 years old) and a customer told me that I looked 15...and then shortly after bought a dance. 😅 I don’t know to what extent men are afraid of being perceived as pedophiles. I do think there are the men who like the younger girls cause they are creeps and wanna take advantage. But on a larger scale, it seems like in my view clubs that actively prefer hiring the young looking dancers tend to be fast hustle clubs. I’m thinking of the Golden Dragon and Mons Venus. So it could be also a lot of customers who want younger dancers are just simply looking for a certain amount of lack of “depth” on purpose. Idk
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    ^which would certainly be a difference than simple pedophilia Or some men perceive younger girls as more happy and less jaded.
  • skibum609
    •
    5 years ago
    I am not paying for fat girls or dancers over 35 no matter how hot they are. A dancer at 40 may still havea hot bod, but she is going to have a 40 year old face and she will not be as smooth as a younger dancer. Anyone who thinks liking a dancer who is over 18 and younger than 21 makes that person a pedophile is simply an ignormus. Probably should have done somethin g other than suck dick in high school and maybe learned the meaning of words, but to each their own.
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    I thought you had a PhD in sucking dick^
  • skibum609
    •
    5 years ago
    Sometines the stray arrow finds a target lol.............................
  • PaulDrake
    •
    5 years ago
    @blahblah - To your point about 40 vs 20yo dancers: I don't consider anyone who is 35+ to be a fantasy as they really aren't out of my league to date IRL. Also here is the statistical data on age versus attractiveness: [view link] So that data is pretty surprising even to me. I think it goes to show that peoples stated preferences and actual preferences differ. And I would guess that a lot of women would never expect the drastic preference for youth most men have.
  • PaulDrake
    •
    5 years ago
    @nicespice - Ok so let's talk racism! On the tail end of your comment you brought up that black girls tend to protest the fact that they are less in demand and have to work harder for less money. I don't dispute that fact at all. Black women are significantly less likely to be considered attractive per the statistical data. But... I don't think black women are really self aware of that so over and over they get into stripping and have the light bulb moment that "Hey guys are less attracted to me that a similar white girl" and then belive anyone who isn't interested in them as being personally racist. Next I think what some of the accusers of racism miss is that the strip club is all about fantasy. A white guy could be the most racist person in the world who really hates black people but their fantasy could be to be with a black girl. Inversely some guy could be married to a black woman and have adopted black kids but their fantasy could be to be with an indian/white/latina girl. Lastly I think some of the fact that black girls are less financially successful at stripping is they tend to gravitate towards one specific hustle. Usually that is the "I'm the baddest bitch", cardi B, glammed up, super long fingernails, with a lot of external confidence. Versus the "Aww shucks, I'm just a college GND who strips occasionally", more of a natural look, with less external but more internal confidence.
  • PaulDrake
    •
    5 years ago
    @nicespice - I think the fear of being labeled as a pedophile is a tuscl thing. There are a few strippers who have gone on record here stating that anyone who likes 20yos is a pedophile. And txtittyfag seems to randomly start accusing people of it (not sure how that started).
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    @PaulDrake when I was commuting into Austin from San Antonio (cause I was tired of dealing with customers over there) I used to do dayshifts at this one club. There were several black girls of the GND variety, who didn’t “act” ghetto and were pretty. One even sold me a beautiful top once. 😁 But in general, it was me and a (younger) white girl who ran laps around them, $$ wise. I think we were both lower mileage too. As much as I’d love to chock it up to being a superior hustler, I really don’t think that was the case... Btw this isn’t a call to action for you to change in any way. —— That being said, there’s a black girl at Palazio I last recall who was good at closing cabanas. So things can be overcome. But she was also very focused and came into the club WAY earlier than most other girls did, consistently. So sometimes class does matter.
  • nicespice
    •
    5 years ago
    But I wouldn’t dare give a black girl any tips of how she can hustle her way to defying the odds. Tho there are exceptions that exist that I’ve seen. As for age, hmm, my take is that as far as peak attractiveness perception, perhaps. I think early 20s is when a female is at peak fertility? I mentioned earlier that the clubs that seem extra biased for filling the roster with younger girls seem to be for those who wants girls based on raw physical appeal. For example, Mons is an infamous lapdannce factory. The Golden Dragon in Portland is a fast hustle place too. And the VIPs in there doesn’t come with champagne and meant to encourage conversations. The VIPs are a jackshack with towels provided. Doesn’t get any more “raw physical appeal” than that haha. That being said, when I think of club environments with high dollar champagne rooms and possibly requirements for gowns and stuff. It seems like the most successful are mid 20s. And those older who took care of themselves well. (And perhaps club politics, but just the fact that club politics can sway things means age isn’t an end all be all decider for men.) And I’ll repeat it. You have your own *personal* preferences. And that’s nothing to be ashamed of
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Some of you guys are really creeps. You take offense if you are approached by a dancer you don't consider attractive. And some of you don't like blacks at all. I tell you, identify the one you want and approach her yourself. And for me, it's never just looks alone, or that 1 to 10 scale. Its the entire person and what sorts of feelings she evokes in me. You guys don't want to treat the dancers as human beings. You've got the money, so you want to have power over them. And you can't believe that if one treats the women better, then they will treat you better. And you guys don't want to be kissing dolled up pretty girls, or otherwise treating them in a more civilian way. A lot of you guys are CREEPS! SJG
  • skibum609
    •
    5 years ago
    Spice has a wicked good rack.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Some clubs have such standards. Other's do not though, because it is no great privilege to work there, and because they need what dancers they can get. They don't have to please everybody, just so long as they please some. SJG
  • TrollWarnBot
    •
    5 years ago
    WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy: san_jose_guy - Commonly referred to as SJG this forum member may have some sort of mental illness and is usually mocked or ignored. SJG has a long history of posting incendiary comments including being pro-rape. His comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate.
  • MockTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    I don’t know why they didn’t higher me. I means I danced and made poo poo on da stage.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    5 years ago
    "... In my limited experience in Austin area, I'd say that they're okay ..." Seems some areas may be better than others w.r.t. variety in clubs - perhaps there may be a correlation b/w the more-progressive-areas and clubs being more diverse?
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Some of the clubs, like San Francisco, Centerfolds, they have high standards. And they also have restrictive rules which they expect to be followed. Not much front room friendliness. We used to have George's Rock'n' Robin. No standards, no real rules. Our underground circuit, not much in the way of standards, or rules. Used to have Club-Ante San Mateo, not much in the way of standards, very relaxed rules. I these last three mentioned venues, most of the girls do OTC. Its really what ever you want. Not that difficult to understand the differences between the types of clubs. SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    I am not someone who has ever interpreted women's looks in a moralistic way. SJG
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    @san_jose_creep posted -> "I am not someone who has ever interpreted women's looks in a moralistic way. SJG" ^ LMAO translation -> I am someone who always interprets women's looks in an immoral way. SJC
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    I get what you all mean about overall yeah the younger girls look better than 40 somethings. But I have seen a lot of outlier 40 somethings that I would say are out of tusclers league lol. I just don't see you fuckers dating anyone on J Lo's level, ok.
  • SirLapdancealot
    •
    5 years ago
    @🔪🔪🔪23 for me personally as I have gotten older I find women my age more and more attractive and in their own way equally attractive to their younger self. I'm not saying I find a younger twentysomething hottie any less attractive, but with age my attraction to older women grew with that age. I had a 48 yr old fave several years ago and she was hot as fuck to me, crow's feet, wrinkles, and sags and all. All that said, I do believe there's still that age "wall" that seems to hit women more than men, but with some women that wall is way late.
  • JamesSD
    •
    5 years ago
    Physically I find 18 to 19 ideal but Golden Pussy syndrome is rampant with those girls.
  • JamesSD
    •
    5 years ago
    Meanwhile the ones who can appeal the most to me on personality are often about 30. And the best are the ones who are actually in their early 30s but look 25. Of course I usually try to fuck those girls for free. Mixed results, of course but has happened more than zero times.
  • Countryman5434
    •
    5 years ago
    @ paul drake i am not attracted to black girls i am not racist nor am i afraid to say so
  • loper
    •
    5 years ago
    I have no problem going to a club that has girls I'm not attracted to as long as they are able to take no for an answer. There are a number of clubs that clearly have very specific hiring standards: white girls under 30 with slim to medium bodies and big tits, whether real or artificial. Though I occasionally crave just such a girl, if that's all that's on the menu I'm not likely to return often. Over the years I've had favs of all races, bust sizes, and body shapes, with the possible exception of "fat." Personality is huge. If you can carry on an intelligent conversation and can get a joke you're halfway there with me. If you are going for pity or can't speak in clear sentences (unless you're ESL) you might as well forget it. I don't understand not being attracted to certain races, because they're all equally beautiful to me, but as someone said, you're attracted to who you're attracted to.
  • DeclineToState
    •
    5 years ago
    @blahblah, what is it do you think about the way you “act and talk” that makes the white American girls dislike you?
  • chessmaster
    •
    5 years ago
    "40 somethings that I would say are out of tusclers league lol. I just don't see you fuckers dating anyone on J Lo's level, ok." First, how many 40 or even 30 something women look like jlo? Second jlo is 50 isnt she? Jlo is clearly the rare exception.
  • Estafador
    •
    5 years ago
    @jlo also isnt as attractive as she used to be. She's taking exercise to the extreme because I'm starting to see her ribcage.
  • MockTruck
    •
    5 years ago
    Anybodyz wants dey asshole licked clean? Mack is in da mood 4 sum 🎂💩 chalklat cake!
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    I'm allowed to cheat on my wife with J Lo she is hot as fuck!!!
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    I think I'm too blunt for a lot of American white girls and they cant stand my humor often times. I've had an easier time getting along with any other variety of stripper.
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    A lot of American white women are just catty though for no reason like compared to everyone else. Or maybe they see me as competition
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    I mean I read about some Male nurse somewhere online and he was saying the white females are nothing but drama. So I dont think it is just me. I cant stand the pettiness
  • blahblahblah23
    •
    5 years ago
    Russian/Ukrainian 1st born in US
  • Jascoi
    •
    5 years ago
    my preference are spinners with curves. and well put together plus ones. pretty face. ANY race.
  • Jascoi
    •
    5 years ago
    and ANY AGE.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    5 years ago
    Strippers don't understand hiring standards? Drake, are you now a strip club manager, are you the one who makes the hiring decisions? Of course women understand that. Some clubs have such standards, some really don't. SJG
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