Sugaring - Managing Expectations

i have had a profile on sugardaddy.com for over 10 years. nothing but a username and a statement about putting a certain phrase in the subject line if you've read my profile. i originally got it because one of my CFs registered, and i was curious as to who else was on. i found a few and favorited them, but never contacted them through the service. i receive at least 5 messages a week from SBs from around the country often several hundred miles away. i've never had a paid account. i check the profiles of the SBs writing me. according to their profiles, they haven't been active in over 2 weeks. they don't put the phrase in the subject line either. my guess is that the system automatically sends these messages to entice the SD to buy a paid subscription. a little underhanded if you ask me.

my guess is that the system automatically sends these messages to entice the SD to buy a paid subscription. a little underhanded if you ask me.

I'm pretty sure this has been the MO of many if not all dating and sugar based websites where there is a free tier and then a premium tier

There was a thread on Reddit recently about "Secret Benefits:"

reddit.com

You can read for yourself but I think the consensus is that Secret Benefits is a ripoff. Seeking Arrangements is still the only game in town, although some have success "freestyling." For example, a stripper I met recently said she met a lawyer in a airport bar that resulted in a long-term arrangement.

The Reddit site has nearly 49,000 members now and it's a better place to get a flavor for what it's all about.

To the @OP: it sounds like you'd be better off getting an escort. Sugaring does not necessarily involve shopping or a serious relationship -- but it does imply something more than fucking some girl and dumping her after the first date. We've had countless posts on TUSCL by guys using SA like Backpage and that's not the intent of the site.

I like having just one partner on the side for STD safety and SA attracts a different demographic than you'll find in a strip club. There are some gorgeous college girls on SA if you take your time and insist on unpaid platonic dates at first. It's not for everyone and it's not inexpensive. However that doesn't mean you become an ATM, it doesn't necessarily imply shopping and gifts, and doesn't meant you're expected to buy your SB a new car and a condo.

I've met two different civvies now at a pool hall I frequent. Somehow the conversation of sugaring came up and both girls mentioned they had tried it and one of them told me she actually had a SD for awhile. Both of these girls are young (21 and 19) and both are gorgeous. The one that had a SD is quite beautiful.

My point is that sugaring seems like something a lot of younger girls have tried these days. I know a few dancers who have tried it too, telling me they did anywhere from $300-500 PPM. These dancers were pretty nice looking too IMHO.

So I think there's definitely potential for finding some amazing girls out there. Most would probably want more than a pump and dump, so if you want a different girl every night I'd say it's not good for that. However, if you're the type to have a CF or ATF dancer for months or years, SA has the potential to find you someone with whom you could have a long term sexual relationship.

I bet there are a lot of girls who just want an extra $500-800 a month and are willing to have sex a couple of times a month for it without too much of the relationship stuff. So, they are definitely out there, but I'm betting it takes some time to find them.

I've said it before, I like SCs because I like seeing the variety and the option to meet and greet at the SC before money changes hands. I think it's likely more expensive than sugaring and I think sugaring could potentially find someone super hot who wouldn't expect as much money wise. Maybe you can find a rare dancer who will do OTC cheap and you really like, but IME I haven't found one.

SA has scammers on both sides from what I've read. I personally haven't tried it, so I'm not qualified to reply to your post, but I've done a lot of research and talked to many people who have. I just don't want to spend the time and money at this point to try it since the SCs I visit have quite a few options. For me personally though, I wish I would take the time to use it and pay the cost because I think it potential could net me a nice girl at a reasonable price for a long term relationship.

I am on Seeking.com. There are all types on that site. There a cute college girls, and there are outright hookers. They are all looking for something different. You have to weed thru them to find what you want.

When you message them back, you tell them what are looking for. Some will say no thanks. Some will say OK. Be careful though. The site doesn't want to get into trouble for trafficking . So move the conversation to texting as soon as possible. You can get banned if you are caught soliciting .

Seeking is no longer just an arrangement site. You can find everything from escorts to sugar babies to everything in between. If you want to just troll for escorts on seeking, it's not difficult to do. However, at $90/month just for the ability to send messages, plus the fact that you'll get tons of ghosting, flaking, etc., it seems to me that if you would be just as happy with an escort, you might as well just get an escort. If you'd be just as happy with a one-hour OTC, and in any case enjoy going to a SC to find your OTC girl, you're better off doing that. Neither an escort, nor a stripper with whom you're clear you just want an hour of hotel room time, is going to expect anything more out of you.

Secretbenefits.com is a total rip off. I tired it for one year and bought credits to allow me to communicate with the so-called SB's that messaged me. NONE were legit. All scammers mostly trying to get me to register on a paid "authentication" site before they would go further. Total scam as the user gets a commission for each loser they get to sign up. Drop the site and head over to Seeking.

I've been a seeking user for long time, and while living in two major cities. Yes, there are scammers on both sides, so users need to wade through a lot of fakes or GPS to find the gems. But they are there. I've many arrangements with 19-28 year olds in my local area. Many.

One warning: Be careful when using the site's message system (messages on the site) to NEVER mention anything that can be remotely seen and as a P4P offer. If they see a message (by monitoring or if you get reported) that could be seen as soliciting or offering prostitution, you get an instant ban. FOSTA/SETSA fucked up everything.

Instead, quickly move the conversation off site to text, whats app, google voice, line, or whatever service you feel comfortable using before you talk specifics. For me, I only discuss money face to face if can.

Great advice gents! Thanks for all the helpful feedback!

I have a well heeled friend who had been banging strippers OTC for years. Over a 10 year period he had 3 regulars, all of whom had drug problems. He got totally fed up with the drama, the flaking, and the drug use. Using SA his first “date” was a 34 year old divorcee with two sons. She owned her own home and had a full time day job, but was having trouble paying the bills, so he agreed to pay her $3000 a month. He told me that she was very compliant and very active in bed. My ATF fucked him off and on for 7 or 8 years and told me that at age 63 he was in good physical condition, loved blowjobs, and was a fairly good fuck, able to get her to orgasm “3 out of 5 times”. She knew he made about $400 to $450k per year and paid her $600 + tip per hour. The last time I saw him he was back to the strippers. One of his regular OTC partners told me that he liked her best when she was high on heroin, drooling, and almost totally incapacitated. She said he wants his women to be totally dependent on him. So situations vary, it can work, but for it to work well takes a lot of money.

Gawker always has the best stories.

New Business Insider article has accurate portrayal of sugaring scene:

businessinsider.com

That businessinsider article was highly informative. I have never tried SA or anything like it and can't imagine I ever will. Seems like a colossal hassle - wading through posers/auto messages, being private, managing the technology. No thanks.

captain: definitely not for everyone. Note that everything described in the article is basically describing what actual sugarbabies and sugardaddies do. Some guys just use the site to find escorts, although it's still $90/month ante

I think the main site Seeking, is headed for a fall, sooner or later (my bet is sooner) there’s going to be a well publicized event that’s going to cause the whole thing to fall apart Not sure what form that event will be, could be a hack or a prostitution bust or even a Sesta prosecution but there’s just too much attention being paid to this issue for it to continue as it is, especially with this administration catering to the Evangelicals.

@twentyfive, that "well publicized event" has already happened... about 3 years ago.

There was a huge kerfuffle when a Google senior exec was found dead on his yacht. He did from an injected drug overdose. It seems he had a sugar date with a woman he found on Seeking. She lived in the Midwest (OK?) and had a profiles set up in every major city. She also had high-end escort ads (Eros?) in every major city.

The Daddy flew her to the Bay area and they went to the yacht to party and play. According to the story, she either injected him with the overdose, or watched him do it to himself. Either way, she just watched him die, collected her stuff and her sugar allowance and left. We know this because the boat had video cameras set up all over. She was arrested and eventually charged with manslaughter. The Seeking leadership/legal team went into overdrive to distance themselves and position the site as anything but prostitution. Heat and scrutiny of the site eventually wore off. In my opinion, it actually worked to their advantage as many, many women who had no idea of sugaring suddenly found a new ways to make some cash without "hooking." (Ironic, isn't it?)

What IS pissing in Seeking' cornflakes now is last year's passage of FOSTA/SETSA federal laws on illegal sex trafficking which the "right" has pushed quite effectively (if not accurately) to conflate with prostitution. So, not all sex workers are trafficked sex slaves. And not all strippers are hookers.

As far as I know, no Daddy (or Mommy) has been arrested or prosecuted as a result of using the site. But there are some (unsubstantiated?) reports of LE placing decoy Daddy profiles and doing hooker stings arrests. So keep your messages on the site PG only and never send or agree to any "quid pro quo" type of language. Move your negotiations to face to face, or at least to an encrypted message service.

SA sounds like too much work and definitely too much online exposure. Kudos for those of you who enjoy it, but I have little interest in all of the interactions needed just to lock down a few good outcomes.

We get a newspaper article once or twice a month here identifying a half dozen or so guys busted for soliciting over the internet and caught in a police sting. Not sure if it’s craigslist ads since I thought they shut that down, but the local police are setting bait on the internet and catching fish.

I once set up on SA and my first encounter was a woman who lived less than 10 miles away. We talked on the phone and I agreed to pick her up at her home. When I met her she was 50 to 75 pounds over the photo I saw. In the car I hemmed and hawed, not sure how to proceed. She said, “Honey, I know just what you’re thinking. If you want to go back and drop me off, I understand. But I want you to know: I’ve got some Primo weed in my purse and I swallow. $200 and its all yours.” The weed was good and she did swallow. She called me a week later saying I was such a nice guy, she’d do me for $150. No? How about $100? Ok sorry to have bothered you. My only adventure with SA.

Sugaring ain't cheap. Allowance has been in between $250-$400, with all in cost of the date being $500-$600. Length of dates has been in between 5 hours up to a full 24 hours a few times. Sometimes we have gone out, and other times just hung out at the hotel. Either way I look for a big night partying every once in awhile. Usually it's been multiple pops and even bareback a few times.

I've been in the sugar game for about the past four years. Back then you could find quite a few who would be okay with $200-$300 per meet. Not no more, it seems nowadays chicks want at least $400.

W.r.t. Secret Benefits I see why most guys don't like paying for each person they talk to. It could still work out though. Credits never expire, once you have unlocked a conversation you have unlimited messaging to that person, and guys are very selective on who they spend credits on. It's not too hard to figure out who the pros are. Quite often they post up pics taken from their hotel room, or sort of explicit in their profile description.

I went out on a sugar date a few weeks ago and I met her from Secret Benefits. The date was about six hours long. Took her out to dinner to start. Then back to the hotel for drinks and a couple of rounds with her. Allowance to her was $400, dinner, drinks, hotel, cab fare home for her the damage ended up being around $600. Didn't do a meet and greet platonic date with her, although it ended up working out great. If it was an overnighter this would have been perfect, but she had a little one to get back home too. I will likely go out again with her.

I don’t how I could have been so naive, but it never occurred to me that all of the PMs I receive, supposedly from dozens of SBs, are computer generated. I just don’t have the time or interest to wade through a lot of fakes to find an occasional diamond. OTC and escorts are much easier, and less $$$. I already have a challenge keeping my real life compartmentalized from my SC hobby, so it is clear that sugaring is not going to work for me. Thanks again for great responses.

as i stated above. put something in the body of the profile description that says "if you don't put 'PL on the prowl' in the subject line, i won't read it".

problem solved

As with anything, there seem to be pluses and minuses - and as with many things, one can often get better results if willing to put some work in.

I'm an immediate-gratification type-PL and in part why my SCing is done mostly on-the-spur-of-the-moment/when-in-the-mood - I don't wanna have to put in effort and time when I'm paying-for-something; kinda a big-part of the reason I'm paying for it it's so I can get the convenience w/ minimal-effort.

A plus I see w/ sugaring is perhaps having access to women that are of a different-caliber compared to strippers or escorts; i.e. civilians that may moonlight P4P vs it being their primary-thing.

A negative of sugaring is the effort in separating the wheat from the chaff but I think a lot of it comes down to the sugardaddy (SD) knowing how to play the game vs being allowed to be manipulated by the sugarbaby (SB) - I would think pretty-much all those SBs know the SDs will want/expect sex (w/ some rare exceptions) but many SBs will try to manipulate or string-along SDs and many SDs probably let it happen.

For myself I am not looking for a civilian relationship thus don't really have a yearning for a P4P relationship and w/e work/expectations come w/ that - and as always, being into variety I get bored of being w/ the same girl pretty-quickly so less incentive for me to put in the work for just one chick that I will want to move on from after I've had her - but for the PLs that into finding and sticking w/ a fave for an extended period of time, I would think the SA effort can be worth it.

I used to run pretty hard with OTC club fun but moved away from that in favor of seeking.com Sugars.

Have had several awesome babies over the past two yrs ... all in their 20’s who were legit and willing to partake in all things adult. Even was able to coax them all into various combinations of threesomes with each other as well as random girls they would pick up

As good as it has been I must admit that I. Had to weed thru numerous no shows and flakes before I found my legit babies. Definitely time consuming to go thru the process of connecting vs sweet talking the young lovelies in the club and getting them OTC.

Secret benefits was a bust for me and, in my eyes, a scam. I would receive 5 or more in box messages per day which I believe are computer generated in order to get you to buy messaging credits.

These sugar dates typically run 5-24 hours and have ranged from $300–600 depending on the restaurant or entertainment venue.

In my experience the girls I routinely sugar with are more reliable than many of the OTC club dates I’ve had. There is a place for both OTC and sugaring if you have time

Main difference is that most OTC dates were more focused on getting naked and finishing up VS. sugar dates which are more like going on a date with your GF before you go home and get naked.

"Definitely time consuming to go thru the process of connecting..."

My last arrangement lasted a little over one year and I don't mind the process of sorting through thousands of profiles, going out for coffee, and other platonic dates. If it takes a month, that's fine. At this point I enjoy the search and I'm way more selective than when I started. As @Papi pointed out, strip clubs are there for spur-of-the-moment fun.

Early September is a great time to hunt for SBs. Had first intimate date last night with petite blonde in her early 20s who I find very attractive. She's politically aware and carries a conversion very well for her age. She told me that she considered stripping but decided that sugaring was more her style.

I don't see much difference in SA post SESTA/FOSTA -- although I have my own style for filtering and searching. Seems as popular as ever and sugaring has gone mainstream.

Nice of HERB to post a LIE about Sesta being passed because of the "right". Typical left wing liar. The vote in the DEMOCRAT controlled HOUSE was 388 -25 with 11 Democrats and 14 Republicans voting against it. Nice lie. Gawker: She would be thin if you closed your eyes.

I think most PLs are far better off staying off Seeking. Most PLs don't want a traditional SB, as we've seen over the past few years when PLs here gave TRs. So right off the bat, there's a big female population on SA that isn't in your wheelhouse. There are loads and loads of escorts on SA, so you could do your escort chasing on there, but that seems like overkill -- why pay $90/month and deal with the incredible flake and ghosting level, plus all the scammers etc, when there are plenty of other ways to get a reliable escort? Which leaves the (ethically questionable, for me, though I know many disagree) strategy of pumping&dumping naive newer SBs who think you're interested in a real arrangement, which has worked for some guys here. But given that the flake and ghosting rate on SA overall is as bad as in a SC (all you need to do is read any sugaring forum to see every other thread is about ghosting, flaking, scammers, etc)... if you enjoy SCs, that feels like the best way to go.

I have spending as much time sugaring as SCing over the past few years, but I'm going after a regular arrangement, and haven't found a great ATF in the SC for a while. I'm in a funny position right now -- had a fantastic M&G and hoping for a first date with an SB this weekend. But I've also found my first stripper with ATF potential in quite a while, and might pursue her as well, to see if she's open to OTC and something arrangement-ish.

^^ skibum, you are incorrect that the vote happened under a Democratic-controlled House. Republicans ran the show until January 2019, and they got to choose which legislation to bring to a vote. It's pretty hard politically for anyone to vote against a bill that "protects" people from trafficking.

I have found there to be crossover between the SC scene and SA in South Florida. Just what do you think those girls are doing on their phones all the time in the strip clubs? They’re lining up their SA “arrangements”.

A large percentage of the club dancers also do SA on the side. I have met a few local club dancers on the “seeking.com” site. Along with the “legit” college students and single moms looking to supplement their income, there is no shortage of pros on this site.

When the girl responds with “what are you looking for”? Or if she immediately wants to switch over to texts, you know she’s a pro, and you can just cut to the chase with a proposal. I would throw out $300 PPM. It gets countered, and then negotiated, but i am always amazed that nearly 100% will consider the offer- even the ones who are supposedly looking for a long term relationship.

I have not encountered any real scammers (knock wood), but I now know that there are photo filter apps that make average girls look gorgeous. Not to mention, girls who only have pics from the neck up are for a reason.

I am currently in a recurring / PPM situation with a really hot 23 yr old Latina (Colombian) who says she “used to” work as a dancer at a club in Miami. So I have to say the site works if, like Papi says, you’re willing to put in the work.

I’ve had 6 “dates” over the last 2+ months. $300 each time (she says she’ll stay all night for $500, but I always have to get up and go to work the next day, so I sent her home each time). She’s just now starting to get pushy for more $ so I will likely have to move on soon.

The SA site is pretty easy to predict. The ones who look too good to be true are fakes. The ones who look like supermodels on mega yachts are out of your price range. But the ones who look like strippers at DD probably are.

-->"A large percentage of the club dancers also do SA on the side. I have met a few local club dancers on the “seeking.com” site. Along with the “legit” college students and single moms looking to supplement their income, there is no shortage of pros on this site."

Yeah, I've been saying that for a long time. I noticed many strippers on SA. Then, I figured, what the hell, maybe there's some way I can leverage this. So, when I get a stripper I'm interested in, I'd find some say to let it slip that I'm on SA looking for an SB. You may think this is an exaggeration, but it's not -- easily 90% of the strippers I've said this to are on SA also, we end up swapping profiles; I swear that once I mention that I'm looking for a sugarbaby, their eyes briefly turn into dollar signs, like in the cartoons.

-->"I’ve had 6 “dates” over the last 2+ months. $300 each time (she says she’ll stay all night for $500"

I've never had an SA girl charge this way, like a menu. It's a nearly surefire sign that you're dealing with an escort or other professionalized sex worker or hustler. Sugarbabies, like most strippers OTC, don't charge by the hour or extra for overnights, IME

Yes, this is pretty much a stripper OTC arrangement that just happens to have been brokered via the SA site. More to your point that there are a lot of strippers looking for “arrangements” via SA.