Comments by FONDL (page 13)

Why not just get her what she likes (Goldschlager) and get you what you like? You don't both have to drink the same thing. Young women typically like something sweet and you probably don't. Or get a couple bottles of champagne - girls like that and it makes for a festive occasion. And some fresh strawberries. And don't forget to bring a couple of nice champagne flutes. A candle - one of those ones in a jar - would also be a nice touch. It'll all fit in a small cooler. With champagne she'll get tipsy without getting hammered, which sounds like what you want.

Yet again my tastes (no pun intended) have changed. I used to be a breast man and preferred large breasts. But as others have pointed out, in strip clubs at least they're usually fakes, and there are some really bad fakes out there. And as a result I've gradually developed a preference for small firm breasts - quality rather than quantity. And I've also developed a real liking for dynamite legs and butts. I blame it all on strip clubs.

This is one area where I've completely changed my mind. I used to think that tatoos were defilement too. But I've seen so many attractive women with them that now I think they can be really sexy. I'm still not a big fan of lots of them, except there's a girl at my gym who has most of her upper body covered with them and I find her attractive. So who knows. Same with piercings. I used to find them a big turn-off. Then I met my ATF. She didn't have a lot but she did have them all over her ears and one in her tongue. And her belly button. And I just remembered, she also had one in another place not to be mentioned - I had forgotten all about that one. She has since gotten rid of most of them. Not sure about the unmentionable one, maybe I should ask her (LOL) and then duck when she swings at me. I'm still turned off by piercings in 2 areas - the lip (the ones on the face) and the nipples. I especially don't like nipples that are pierced, I wonder why that is?

I've never gone commando and never will, I wouldn't be comfortable. I wouldn't even do that just lounging around the house. I usually wear khakis when clubbing but I make an exception if I'm going to a really downscale club where I know that everyone else will be in jeans. Then I do too. And I've never noticed any difference in how the girls treat me. I never used to wear jeans and for many years didn't own any. Until I met my ATF. She always wears jeans, so I started doing the same when I was with her. I used to be like Chitown in the dressing department, I always enjoyed dressing well. Even when the office became 100% causal I still wore a sprots jacket with my khakis and dress shirt or polo. Then I retired. And it's amazing how quickly I got out of the habit of dressing well. Now almost all I wear are jeans and sweat shirts in cold weather, shorts and T-shirt in warm weather. And running shoes. The only time I've worn a tie in the last 5 years is for funerals or weddings. I don't even own a suit anymore that fits, and I wouldn't ever wear it if I did. Except for my tux, I own 2 of them.

The only pre-club routine I've ever had was to check my wallet to see if I had enough money. Other than that, for me it's no different than stopping in a bar for a beer. As for the cel phone thing, I leave it in the car no matter where I'm going, I don't take it with me into any public places. That's just common courtesy.

As I'm sure you all know, there are two aspects to addiction - the physical and the psychological. While some of these things may not be very physically addictive, they can all be extremely psychologically addictive. When someone says that something isn't addictive, they usually mean physically. But with many people the psychological is just as bad if not worse.

I've been trying to remember if I've ever sucked on a tittie in a strip club and I think the answer is no. In fact there were probably only 4 girls I've known (all were faves at the time) where that would have interested me, and 3 of them worked in clubs were boob fondling wasn't done. Probably could have done it with the fourth girl but somehow I never got around to it. In other words, my answer is no.

Elsewhere Njscfan has pointed out what I've always thought was the biggest risk - a crazy jealous druggie BF.

Njscfan, I think there are at least two problems with trying to answer your question. First, a lot of the symptoms that you can identify are also symptoms of a lot of other things she could have, so they really don't provide any kind of definitive answer. Second, drug users are notoriously good at hiding their habit from others. So as long as she isn't really screwed up most of the time there's probably no way for you to tell whether she's an addict or not. If I were you I'd focus on her behavior and not worry about the reasons for it. If her behavior is acceptable to you, continue the relationship. If it isn't, move on. I'd be more worried about the ex-BF, who sounds like he's crazy, than about whether or not she's an addict.

Njscfan, I agree with you to some extent. The problems is that they are all illegal and thus all obtained from illegal sources. Which means that anyone injesting drugs has no idea what they're really taking. Plus the experience with soft drugs convinces the user that he can handle anything without becoming addicted. Which is how people go from smoking pot to becoming a heroin addict. Like my ATF's ex-BF has done. I'm sure my ATF would have done the same thing if she hadn't been forced to quit before she got to that point. It's pretty scary.

Njscfan, I feel for you. The same thing could easily have happened to me but I was luckier than you. My ATF used drugs regularly and her BF was a dealer. But she was busted before she reached the stage where I would call her an addict. And I never suspected. I helped her throughout this period and it utrned out well for both of us. But it could just as esily have gone south, and I don't know what I would have done if it had. I think nearly all strippers do some illegal substances, they just don't consider themselves to be on drugs. They distinguish between what they call soft drugs and hard drugs, and don't consider use of soft drugs to be doing drugs. Few strippers probably become what most of us would consider to be drug addicts. For example, my ATF used to smoke pot daily and experimented with lots of other stuff especially when at dance clubs, but she drew the line at injecting herself with anything. And I don't think she was ever addicted, in the sense that the term is usually meant. She did spend a month in rehab after getting busted once, but she never went through any withdrawal and she has managed to stay pretty clean since then. I know that for a fact because she was subject to regular random testing for the next 4 years and never once flunked the test. I'd say she was one of the luckier ones - she now considers getting busted as one of the best things that ever happened to her - the rehab changed her life.

I only have a sample of one. On my recent weekday afternoon club visit with Wondergirl, I thought the place was busier than I remembered it from previous visits several years ago at the same time of day. I mentioned this to one of the dancers, and she replied that it was less busy than usual, that it had been much busier the previous afternoon. Lots of customers were buying private dances too. So at least one club in the suburban Philly area seems to be doing well. My observations about construction in my area are that new high-end new housing construction has slowed considerably, but more moderately priced stuff is still being built and remodeling is booming. Nonresidential construction also seems to be doing very well. A huge new mixed-use development (housing, retail, offices) is just getting underway near me. Highway construction is also booming in my area - there are major projects everywhere. I recently completed a trip on our interstate highway system and the number of trucks on the road, which I've found to be an accurate indicator of current economic strength, seemed to be about normal. I also noted in this morning's paper that January retail sales had rebounded from December's weakness. One funny sidelight to that trip - I stopped at a Dunkin Donuts and the 3 young girls behind the counter were talking about an upcoming visit to a local strip club. One of the girls (the best looking one) was asking everyone in the store if they knew the age requirement for the club - she wanted to go with her friends but wasn't yet 21. Not the conversation one expects over breakfast. But it put a smile on my face.

I actually prefer it that way. I'd rather just sit by myself watching the girls dance onstage until I see one who appeals to me, then I'll go ask her to join me. I don't like a club where girls keep coming over and asking me if I want company, it's annoying.

I agree with Chandler. The fantasy is that I'm scoring with the girl next door (who is really hot BTW.) A foreign accent spoils that fantasy and makes it seem to me more like hiring a hooker, which doesn't interest me at all. The aggressiveness of some of those foreign girls only adds to the hooker impression.

One answer to the smoke odor problem is to do your clubbing in towns that still allow smoking in bars and restaurants. Or hang out regularly with a friend who smokes. I never have a problem with smoke odors because my wife knows that I always sit in the smoking section of any restaurant - she does too. There are usually fewer children in the smoking area, and given the choice between exposure to second-hand smoke or poorly behaved kids (which seems to be redundant these days) I will always choose the former.

Shadowcat, I used to get a lot of messages from dancers I didn't know when I posted regularly on the Pink Site, looking for info on clubs that I'd mentioned. I've gotten a few here too. Girls are always looking for a better club or relocating for one reason or another. The most common reason I heard was that a girl was moving to attend school.

What I find amusing about the point of view expressed in the quote is that for as long as I can remember dancers have been complaining that it isn't as easy to make money in the business as it used to be. I heard that complaint 30 years ago. And how the hell do young dancers know what it was like 10-15 years ago? They were in grade school or younger at the time. They're probably echoing complaints of the 40 year old dancers they know. And for them it probably is harder to make big bucks, they're too old for the game. As for clubs closing their doors, I can't think of any that have done so in my part of the world in the past decade. But I can name a whole bunch of new clubs that have opened their doors. The number of both dancers and clubs is increasing. The opening quote only makes sense if you ignore all the evidence to the contrary.

My ATF was once diagnosed as bipolar. This quack had her on all kinds of medication for it, but it was really the illegal drugs (mostly pot) she was taking on a regular basis that was causing the problem. Once she got off the illegal drugs and stopped taking the medication she was fine - no sign of bipolar disorder whatever. I'm guessing that a lot of drug addicts, and you see lots of them in clubs, are mis-diagnosed as bipolar. And a lot of these drug addicts are going to tell you all sorts of stories - drugs and honesty rarely go together. And drug addicts are extremely clever at hiding their addiction, there's no way you can tell unless they're really bad.

Shadowcat, I was in the military too, probably at the same time you were (1962-1966 for me.) I had no problem living on the pay either because of free food and lodging. But I wasn't trying to support a family, just my alcohol habit. I think it's still pretty hard for a young enlisted man to support a wife and kid, even if they live on base.

DougS, no need to explain. Just act dumb, they expect it of us.

I think it is a conspiracy, but not the one you're talking about. I think they're all clairvoyant - they know a whole lot more than they let on, they just don't see any point in mentioning it. They like their lives just fine the way they are and don't want to endanger the nest, so they pretend to not know what's going on. And they let us continue to think we're the smart ones.

When I first started going to clubs, it was always because someone else took me. But once I acquired the habit I found that I much preferred going alone. To me they're two separate activities - if I want to hang out with guys friends I'll go to a bar; if I want ro havng out with young naked girls I'll go clubbing and I'll go by myself. I'm not a multi-tasker, I prefer to do one thing at a time and do it well.

DougS, I don't have any idea what you're talking about. I bought a laptop computer with MSN software already installed and I know just enough about it to do the few simple things that I want to do. I have no interest in understanding anything beyond that.

DougS, I'd never blame someone who my wife knew, I'd blame some salesman from out of town or something like that. Godfather, I actuall had a car accident in a strip club parking lot once - I backed into a limo when leaving. It was very minor and didn't leave much of a mark on my car, but the limo driver/owner was so upset that he insisted calling the police. and they in turn were so upset at having been called for such a minor accident that they sited him for parking incorrectly, which I thought was pretty funny. On another visit I got up the next morning with a dent in my car and had no idea how it got there, whether I did it the night before or someone hit me in the parking lot. That's the last time I ever drank heavily when clubbing.

"Conversate" is exactly the kind of word that you hear from the idiot talking heads (and I realize that's redundant) on TV who are trying to sound like they're more intelligent than they are and end up doing the opposite. You'll also find that a lot of slang phrases are regional - if you're from somewhere else they really sound stupid to you (like that annoying "wicked good" that you hear in Boston) or you have no idea what they mean. I don't ever try to dumb down, if she has trouble understanding me I'm not going to be interested in her anyway.