discussion comment
16 years ago
--When you walk in and casually complain about someone sitting in your favorite corner seat at the bar--and they ask him to move!
--When the owner buys you drinks.
--When your ATF leaves permanently but you stay--and the remaing girls start swarming all over you (or should I say, your wallet).
--When you have at leaast 5 dancer phone numbers on your cell phone.
discussion comment
16 years ago
How do we find you if we've never "convened" with you before?
discussion comment
16 years ago
Yes, it's a nice ice breaker.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Re Shadowcat's "person of interest" comment. I always have several "persons of interest" scattered about several clubs that I occasionally make what I calll "investment" with to find if they are ATF worthy. If one of those moved to a more promising location, I might continue my nurturing to see what happens, but only carefully.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Yes, and I have. BUT only if it is to a club that I approve of. Some clubs have attitudes or policies that I choose not to support no matter who works there.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Good commments above. Drive north from Clearwater to Holiday and find Bare Assets. I knew a dancer who worked there; she knows I have high standards and said I would like it--but I have never been there myself, just adding something new to the discussion mix. See reviews.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I don't think we should put rocks in other people's hands.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Here's my rambling take on what's going on in Greater Cleveland. All clubs here have been struggling relative to the good old days anyway, but given the no-smoking law and now the strip club law, the struggle has taken on a new dimension. One noticle affect is the day business. It used to be a a reasonalbe time to make money with the more adult/higher discretionaly income audience that rivaled the night volume. But days shifts are nowa slower--buyt that sometimes means more time with your dayshit ATF.
Yes, the above mentiooned clubs in previous posts have closed, some for the better becaue they needed a shaking up. Yes, the Brookpark Rd. clubs are still open, but they are barely hanging on some days. If you know the girl, mileage is the same or better depending on the level of business. If things have been really slow, they're really happy to see you, etc. But we're always watching the door to see who is coming in next. If it's a stranger, things get a little tame for a while.
If you come in from out of town to see your regulars, my advice is still come, because your ATFs will be glad to see you. If you're a newbie, you'll have to find your way around carefully, learn to like eye candy and air or maybe buy a magazaine, depending on where you go.
Another outcome is that some (not all)owners have incresed the drink hussle 1) by increasing the price and giving a kickback to the girls, 2) or by enforcing high drink quotas (usualy already in place but not enforced much) and then making life miserable for the girls if they don't meet it: -pay a fine, -makeup the difference or -maybe get fired if they can't sell their share. Three of my favorites at a popular club were let go for this reason two weeks ago.
Another positive outcome is that there has been this great diaspora (read your history!)of dancers from the closed clubs which is upping the quality considerably. Owners in second tier clubs don't have any excuses now for hiring chunky dancers.
A few girls I know have quit from the closed clubs, but most have found new homes. The remaining dancers in most clubs are the can't/won't-do-anything-else types. I see very few going-to-college dancers anymore.
Lastly, the recent changes have affected the quality of your experience downtown. There used to be three high end clubs downtown and one pretender. But with the closing of the Hustler Club, you're left with a "touch and you're out" club and a large glitze and glitter club that most often doesn't deliver on fun (too big, too aloof, bad attitude) and the other wanabe high-end that really isn't and is struggling. Cleveland hasn't been enforcing anything regarding the new law ( with the exzception of midnighyt dance ending), however, some downtown clubs are self-policing and have become a little tamer. However, the challenge can sometimes make for better fun.
In the long run the politicians will regret this because of the loss of tax dollars from bar/club revenue and an eventual increase in working girls from the desperate ones--I can see it beginning, but it's not a ground swell.
Interesting to read the other Ohio comments. My experience is that in many other places on Ohio, especially in Columbus, customer expectations (on a mass market scale) are different from those in Cleveland, so the change is not being felt as sharply there.
discussion comment
17 years ago
A favorite dancer of mine has five kids (believe it!) with the same guy who continually beats on her. For years she's talked of leaving him, but always came up with a reason not to... for example 1) he was the father of her kids, 2) they had great sex, 3) she has never been alone, 4) she's afraid to make the move. Customers and dancers always pushed her to take the step, she always said she would, but never did. Perhaps this was a come-on game she played for many years to create sympathy. But last week she learned the hard way that there is a price to pay when youy procrastinate with common sense--he beat her again (bruises are obvious), but this time put a knife to her throat and almost killed her. He probably would have if she hadn't fought and got away. Now he's in jail and will likely be sent away. In the meantime, she gets sympathy from the dude's father. I'm convinced the only thing that stands between many of these girls and a more normal life is a normal man.
discussion comment
17 years ago
MisterGuy, you miss the point. Some girls I wouldn't buy a pop tart for, but they give great extras--which I will gladly pay for. Some dancers I consider friends. It's that simple. There's never any pressure for any gift I've every given--but they have always been modest. I never respond to pressure from a dancer, that's bad self-control. Earlier in this thread, someone made reference to giving a gift in four figures in an effort to help someone "save herself" or words to that effect. That's just not smart. A four-figure gift is simply a bad investment, makes life harder for the hobbyist of more average means, and tells the dancer that you can be "worked." My gifts to dancers have few and far between, always modest, selective...to the "friend" types, and usually rewarded in one way or another.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Shadoowcat is right. If I'm with one of my favorites, it's common for either her or me to say, 'let's go play.'If I'm with another non-favorite type, or a new dancer, I'm either auditioning her, training her, or investing in her. That's work! ...also a lap dance.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Good topic. For me it's both sexual and social. I've been in this hobby for some 25 years and can't stop. After leaving my corporate job and setting up a home-based business, I find myself missing the comaraderie of a bigger office. I've found that my strip club visits can now fill that void. Sometimes after a morning in the home office I just have to get out to one of my local SCs (sometimes several times a week). And sometimes I've found myself sitting at the bar or at a table on certain days when I wasn't in a good mood and therefore not the best of company--and asked myhself why did I come in today (even apologizing sometinmes to my ATSs). But I know, it's habit and hope that the social surroundings can bump me up to a better nood. Having said that, I have to acknowlegbe that I am also hooked on the sexual aspect as well. If I want eye candy, I can buy a magazine. I know where to go for what I want. Having said all this, I have a life, I have a wife, I just like variety like someone said above, and love to be around women who treat you well and know how to deliver.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I have to admit to having special lap dance pants. They're thin and slightly on the loose side as they are business casual pants. And depending on where I go and the type of action I can expect, I'll either go commando or where silk boxers--this is when I plan in advance. Sometimes the urge doesn't allow for advance planning. I try to go easy on cologne just as I prefer the girls go easy or even forego perfume.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Drinks for your girl:
Cranberry and vodka
Washington Apple (ask your bartender how to make it, girls love it)
Jaegermeister (licorice tasting liquore)--definitely an acquired taste--hugs you from the inside before it kicks you in the ass!
Vodka lemon drops (home made: chilled vodka, shaken with some lemon zest, pour in a shot glass with rim dipped in sugar or salt (her/your preference). Finish with biting a slice lemon (like a tequila shot). Tastes like FRESH lemonade!
Midori mellon martini's
Also consider the new tropical flavored malt beverages or wine coolers --great girl drinks if they don't like the hard stuff--takes a few to get a buzz, but 3 or 4 may do for her, also try these with the vodka shots.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Easy or good stage show?
Now hesitation, for me, I go with easy--with stipulations. Being a hobbyist, it's not the stage show that turns me on. It's the flirting and the contact where we're not spposed to have it--that the fun. The stipulations: 1) attitude: most important of all. If the dancer is stuck on herself, too pushy (dance or drinks), wants to talk only about her problems, is too good to be touched, doesn't really like her job to the extent she broadcasts it--I pass her over quickly. 2) great ass--this is my weakness. Great tits are nice, but I think they're all great. But a cute, round ass, now that's something I can grab. 3) good flirt--turn me on you've got my attention and usually my money. Of course, if they get past tthese three hurdles, they have to deliver something, wwhic I supp0ose gets us back to EASY.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Easy or good stage show?
No q
discussion comment
17 years ago
This is a tough topic and has many angles. SC hopping ihis is my hobby and I spend a small but still considerable amount of money at it. Consequently I meet a few girls who I consider friends and a few others who I am friendly with but who I know are playing me. You have to be smart enough to tell the difference. Never give anyone in this line of work any gift over four figures. It sends the wrong message. In fact, it's wise to set a modest limit to what you will spend on any visit or with any gift to establish financial boundaries. After those are established, and you are comfortable with "friend" vs. "being played" you should only make small investments in helping out your friend. Maybe buying groceries, a special gift for her to give to her kid(s), pay a utility bill, help toward a car payment (never tre whole amount). A series of small gifts to help someone meets life's unexpected challenges goes much further than throwing a large wad of cash at someone on a one or two-time basis. At least it does if your goal is a long term friendship and/or relationship. And if you truly want to save them talk to your friend about her "Plan B"--that is, what she does after stripping and encourage and support her on reaching that goal. Following this approach, you don't have to worry about how to extract yourself, because you're never really in that deep unless your emotions cause you to make bad decisions, like thinking with the wrong head does sometimes!
discussion comment
17 years ago
About eight years ago in Cle-Town I had already been a customer of my ATF for quite a while. She was one of the sexiest dancers in the club, always worked hard, and on stage had the capacity to project as if dancing only for the one she was making eye contact with while also evoking that "come fuck me" look. Early on her lap dances were standard contact bump and grind, but one day she seemed to go through a transformation, announcing that from now on she was doing better dances. And better they were, bump and grind turned into grind and stroke, and to my sweet surprise, she inserts two fingers into her pussy, plays with herself for a good while and then puts them in my mouth to lick off. (This was the transformation, not the "first time"). This second stage of our ATF relationship left me with many happy memories.
One day we're in the middle of a lap dance and I mentioned that I would like to try the club's new VIP room, which required me buying a bottle of champagne and then buying dances--all in a semi-private room that could be made almost private by re-arranging the furniture. Well, she immediately stops our dance, told me what her VIP dance price was and says come with me. We bought the champagne and proceeded to the VIP rooom. We close the door, sip some champagne and then she starts dancing for me. Slow and sensual, brushing her cute ass on my lap and putting her substantial titties in my mouth. After a while, she gets up, turns around to face me and gives me some typical stick shifting. Now I'm very satisfied so far, given the no holding back because of the privacy, but I still had realistic expectations that this would be it, super elevated contact and a more comfortable happy ending. But after a few strokes, suddenly, ZIP and my pants are open. I was wearing underwear that day, but from this point on I new it was time to change my expectations, so without hesitating, I reached in to pull out Mr. Happy myself to take things to a higher level, at least a nice hand job. But as soon as Mr. Happy is free, she takes him in hand and starts giving me a BBBJTC, at which point she swallowed and complimented me on what she assumed was my good diet because she said my cum didn't have any telltale herbal or garlicy aftertaste. We had many VIPs after that, including a wild session with a g-spot vibrator and anmal beads that drove her wild and made her cum madly. We actually became friends and fuck buddies after that. I have other interesting first-time stories with other girls in SCs, worth sharing some other time.
discussion comment
17 years ago
This has happened to me also, I found it a little disgusting but in balance it wasn't revolting. After all, we're breaking the rules. Best to ask if you can finish or have plan. Also it's best to know your dancer.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Dancer, your approach is reasonalbe in the mix of things. The reason why some men are rude is that they are not comfortable yet. This may be due to being new to the club or simply because they are not a frequent club-goer. My guess is that most rudness is the result of not being a frequent customer or fear of being ripped off or having their wallets sucked dry (which is a reasonable fear, wouldn't you agree?). It boils down to feeling comfortable. The person who is rude is not comfortable yet. Figure out how to make the new customer more comfortable. That sometimes takes asking questions without latching on to him. Like maybe asking if you can find him a waitress to order a drink, or simply asking what type of woman does he prefer and that you'll help him find one.
Once disarmed with this approach, most guys whose first reaction is to be rude quickly revert back to being human beings. Keep in mind that most guys, but not all, like to be approaoched, but not right after they come in. (If you read club reviews, one of the more common complaints is that no one approach them!) Give the customer time to survey the room, the lighting, the bar, where the men's room is, and yes, the dancers to see who intrigues him. This takes a while. He usually wants to order a drink by himself and enjoy it while surveying the above items. When he's done "surveying" he's ready to be approached. But, instead of asking "do you want a dance, try asking "are you READY for some company?
If he's not ready, ask "what can we do to make you feel comfortable? You can even ask if you or others should approach him later or wait for him to approach you. Respect is a two way street. This thoughtful approach works for me and should for a lot of men.
My personal preference is always to have dancers approach me--but only after I've got comfortable and completed my "survey."
discussion comment
15 years ago
Steve--I'm talking about dancers who like to own or rent porn DVDs. Not dancers who like/want to perform in porm. I rarely bring up porn as a conversation topic, but on more than one occassion a dancer has volunteered that she likes to watch it. A few interesting conversations have taken off from that point. So in a few recent dancer conversations I've brought the topic up first to see what happens.
And like I said in my original typo-filled post, I found those conversations to be very revealing about the dancers. For example, are they romantic, erotic, like it rough, like lesbian sex, prefer certain positions, what really gets them off during sex. I'm going to try to parlay one of my porn conversations into some OTC.
discussion comment
15 years ago
It's fun, sad, interesting, boring. Does it detract from the fantasy or fun for me? Not if I'm having a good conversation and I like the dancer. It's a slice of life. In no particular order, here's list of 30 real dancer shop talk/personal conversation topics dancers have brought up with me:
1. Who's on their period.
2. Who's husband/boyfriend doesn't work and is a freeloader.
3. Who smokes weed.
4. Who doesn't smoke weed.
5. Who does coke.
6. Who doesn't do coke.
7. Who to avoid because she does heroin.
8. Who will do OTC (from someone who doesn't).
9. Who won't do OTC (from someone who will).
10. Who is a gourmet cook.
11. Who likes to read good books.
12. Who worries that her (choose: ass, boobs, feet, hips, lips are too (choose one: small, big).
13. Who has a "real" job doing what.
14. Who has a plan for the future.
15. ....who doesn't.
16. Why so and so can't dance.
17. Who likes anal.
18. Who doesn't like anal.
19. Which assistant manager gets high.
20. What campground she likes to take her kids to.
21. Where her (choose: boyfriend/husband/brother/neighbor) is locked up.
22. Who's kids are good in school.
23. Who's kids are going to have trouble.
24. Who wants to write fiction and has samaples.
25. Who has enrolled in college and what classes they are taking.
26. What I think of President Obama.
27. What her Mom or Dad does for a living.
28. Whether I'm a Republican, Democrat or Independent.
29. Who's boyfriend bought her a house.
.... and to close, one of of the more popular topics:
30. Who wants another shot.
(and the corollary: who better not drive home).
discussion comment
19 years ago
Have a budget to spend when you go in the club. Know how much you will spend on stage tips, private dances and the get acquainted drinks that sometimes set up the private dances.
If this or any girls asks you for a drink, ask yourself if the girls fits into your plan for the night. If she doesn't, just say "no." You seem to be struggling with the "no" part because you are friends with her. But you can't think of it that way unless you can afford to spend drink money on "friendly drinks" that take away from your fun money. Remember, strip clubs are not normal bars and your dancer friends in them are not "normal" friends.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Are you kidding? Most strippers are married or already hooked up with a boyfried because they need additional income to support their kids. Oh yes, forgot to mention, on average, most strippers are mothers/single Moms--think about it. So it's rare to hook up with one on a normal basis. Have I seen it, yes. One I know even married a customer. But she was infatuated by things beautiful and was "swept away" so-to-speak--she married an Arab and is probably regretting it about now as his cultural disrespect for women compaared to an American man's is likely ruining her life about now (hope I'm wrong).
But if you insist on trying to date a stripper, you need to find common ground. It helps to back off from dances and show other types of interest, such as in her life history, her goals and aspirations, her pain in life and how you would add to her quality of life. But why look for a date in a strip club? A regular bar or even a grocery store in a singles neighborhood would be a better bet. One night stands? Now that's a different matter with a whole set of different dynamics.
discussion comment
19 years ago
One of my FAVs likes to play a lot in an interactive way. She has as much fun as I do and I know what she likes as much as she knows what I like, BUT as much as she lets me play and likes it she always cuts things off before she crosses the line. She tells me she just couldn't handle working if she went too far. On the other hand (no pun intended) another dancer I spend some time (and money) with but who is not really a FAV likes to play and seemed to cross that line with me once or twice. And I'm judging this not by moaning of contractions but simply by the physical reality of lubrication. Now this is rare, most dancers I know who moan a lot are faking it to create a fantasy. If you fall for it and enjoy yourself, that's fine. But if you fall for it out of some illusion of satisfaction you've created for these fakers, she's just worked stripper magic on your wallet!