The last one I tried to help wound up kicking my teeth in. She had some major divorce problems and I gave her $1000. No strings attached. We had been seeing each other OTC for lunch etc but not sex. Then we had a lunch date. Confirmed by phone on Friday evening for Sunday afternoon. She no showed. I have seen her at the club on 3 times since then(just visiting friends). She has since quit the business but she has never bothered to apologise to me for standing me up. I learned a lesson.
Shadowcat, that could happen with anyone, not just strippers. As I've mentioned before, the worst that ever happened to me was by a girl who never had been a stripper. But that hasn't discouraged me from trying to help others when it seemed right. The way I look at it is the ones who do stuff like that are doing me a favor and only hurting themselves. Think about how much money that girl saved you, sounds to me like she could easily have played you for a lot more money and chose not to. You should be thankful for that.
There's an old saying, "If you loan money to a friend and never see either one of them again, it was probably worth it." Same is true for giving them money.
FONDL: It was not about the money. I had known her for several years and called her my 2nd ATF. We had lunch many times and even a couple of times with her sister. I thought that it was very inconsiderate of her to stand me up and not apologize for it. No more mister nice guy.
I had a regular girl for three years. Beyond the fact that she tolerated and enjoyed our lengthy sessions in the private room, we both had the same taste in music and movies. We would spend probably fours together in the club everytime I went (2 in the private room). She struggled with the notion that we should meet OTC. She wanted to, but was afraid of something.
I know she wasn't playing me because she was hot and would only make 220 from me each visit, turning down other offers from men while were spending time together. Finally, she changed clubs and the days she worked. Another dancer told me she did it because she was feeling conflicted about a regular customer. When that dancer realized the guy was me, she made me her regular (both girls very much enjoyed the way I ate pussy).
I learned not to try to "save" women when I started seeing them behind the scenes. Whenever a potential boyfriend / fuck-buddy was not around -- either because the women didn't consider me one, or because I was a co-worker or other untouchable of some sort. I learned then, that women are a LOT more resilient and "in charge" of their emotions, and their choices, than they like to seem like they are, when they are around a guy whom they consider "hot" or whom they WANT to THINK they consider desirable.
When the guy is nearby (and sometimes it was me; whether because I was a strip-club customer; or because she actually was pursuing me; or because she wants to "control" and manipulate me and other boy-toys) then the woman will act in a certain "submissive" manner. She'll seem to need protection. Her biological urge is to capture the heart of a male who will act as her protector, as the man who does all sorts of bullcrap for her in unremunerated manner. So, when he's around, she acts a certain way that seems to imply that she NEEDS this bullcrap done FOR her.
On the other hand, when a woman thinks she is not on display, she generally turns out to be remarkably competent. She can decide to follow directions, get to work on time, make sensible decisions, even add and subtract and pay the bills. She doesn't need saving from anything.
It's simply in her best interests to convince someone else to do the dirty work for her. It's a heck of a lot easier than having to do it on her own.
If you loan a dancer money and she disappears never to be seen again, is it really a loan or a parting gift? I wouldn't be surprised if that may be the best way to get rid of a dancer and never have her bother you again. When I was new to strip clubs and seemed to be hooking up with some dancers away from strip clubs, 2 out of 3 dancers asked me to loan them some money and never repaid me (somewhere between 100 to 300 but I can't remember now for sure). One made a deal with me that paid off pretty good for me. The other two burned me and disappeared never to be seen again. Well I found one and she was worried about what I might do to her apparently. I had forgiven her by that time and didn't realize at first she was worried to death about what I was up to. If I wanted to be malicious, I could have done so but I just dropped it and decided never to loan money again unless I get something worthwhile out of any deal.
That's just part of the stripper shit you learn about after getting to know strippers a little bit better. Some or many will try to scam you before totally breaking things off with you. Unless you know better and don't fall for it. I even heard one story saying I could loan a dancer some money because her friend owed some money to her drug dealer and he was going to really rough her up if she didn't pay up. May or may not have been true. I didn't give any money to her. Smelled like BS. Don't loan money to dancers unless you consider it to be a parting gift so that they never contact you again.
A strange dancer is a dancer who disappears from your life (if you've seen her away from strip clubs) and didn't ask for money before she left. Unless of course you broke things off with her and never gave her your phone number like I did with one dancer. I wonder what she thought when I disappeared from her life. I had her phone number, been by her townhouse several times but she didn't even have my phone number or last name or address.
Shadowcat, it was inconsiderate. But how many considerate 20-somethings do you know? Most young people in our society aren't very considerate, being considerate is no longer a part of our culture. My ATF didn't learn to be considerate until she was well past 25, and I think that's something she learned from me.
Being inconsiderate isn't stripper shit, it's all part of the decline in civility that has become so common today.
When you loan money in order to save them and they walk away and don't pay, is it OK to exact non-violent revenge? If you find her in a new club you could serve her with the debt collection lawsuit papers by putting them in her g-string when she's on stage and then leaving. If you helped her out with a personal check, you now have her bank information from the deposited check. Assuming you get a money judgment against her, you might be able to attach her bank account. Most dancers are in financial chaos and do not stop and think that a customer just might come after them with legal force and fury on an unpaid "loan."
This is another case where words mean different things to different people. When a stripper asks you to "lend" her some money, she's asking for a gift, not a loan. Your chances of ever getting the money back are remote. So you might as well ask her to do something in return up front, like giving you a bunch of LDs. Otherwise you'll probably never hear from her again because your presence will make her uncomfortable.
I made those small loans several years ago when I was brand new to strip clubs and I sometimes blew 2 or 300 hundred in a single night out. Now the one loan that paid off for me big time was more like a deal. She offered to give me all her dances at half price forever. I loaned her 100 dollars for that deal. It was pretty much paid back within a few visits. She kept her part of the deal up for 2 or 3 years. Of course I sometimes thought it was a deal where she could dance for me more often because she wanted to. I ended up visiting her at her apartment and then later at her townhouse off and on over the course of a couple of years. I think she was the only dancer that ever called me up and wanted to go see a movie. I said no. She wanted to go on a week night and lived 2 hours away after she moved.
FONDL: related subject. When you say there's a common decline in civility today, what are you comparing to? I do think that social mores change over time, this way and that, and that we're in a pendulum swing in one particular direction. But in some certain fields I see a much HIGHER level of "civility" than previously. I think that rude, uncivil drivers are on the upswing; and teenagers these days are remarkably uncivil (we have a mall in town here which just BANNED teenagers without an escort! imagine, and I figured they would have been the main income source!); and popular music is deliberately profane and uncivil; and so forth.
But in other fields, there's an "excess" of civility. I find that in the typical workplace, though we all might be happy-go-lucky cheery about "how happy we are to be here," there's a very low priority placed on Getting The Job Done (and the necessary attendant complaint about someone who does not) and a very high priority placed on Being A Happy Member Of The Team. This means that "civility" is misplaced if it's viewed as something which precludes productivity, and yet that view is indeed prevalent in many offices where I've worked. You can't complain about your secretary doing her nails instead of doing the typing, that's "incivil" (sic). I think that's part of political correctness, too.
And in other places I think we have a misplaced, misguided sense of "civility." We have carpet and electronics salesmen who want to be considered "professionals" even though their "profession" requires nothing but a five minute training seminar in how to run the cash register. We have Hotel Management degrees that are supposedly an education. Aren't these excesses of civility?
This is a tough topic and has many angles. SC hopping ihis is my hobby and I spend a small but still considerable amount of money at it. Consequently I meet a few girls who I consider friends and a few others who I am friendly with but who I know are playing me. You have to be smart enough to tell the difference. Never give anyone in this line of work any gift over four figures. It sends the wrong message. In fact, it's wise to set a modest limit to what you will spend on any visit or with any gift to establish financial boundaries. After those are established, and you are comfortable with "friend" vs. "being played" you should only make small investments in helping out your friend. Maybe buying groceries, a special gift for her to give to her kid(s), pay a utility bill, help toward a car payment (never tre whole amount). A series of small gifts to help someone meets life's unexpected challenges goes much further than throwing a large wad of cash at someone on a one or two-time basis. At least it does if your goal is a long term friendship and/or relationship. And if you truly want to save them talk to your friend about her "Plan B"--that is, what she does after stripping and encourage and support her on reaching that goal. Following this approach, you don't have to worry about how to extract yourself, because you're never really in that deep unless your emotions cause you to make bad decisions, like thinking with the wrong head does sometimes!
I have to say, I am just one lucky bastard. My ATF would never ask for anything, has never fucked me over (well, you know) and I just give her variable amounts that I think are fair and smart. She's so classy that way. No matter what happens to the relationship,I'll always remember that. Here's wishing y'all get the same treatment.
A gift of "four figures"?? "Buying groceries, paying a utility bill, helping toward a car payment"?? If you are doing any these things dude, you are a PL in my book, period. Pay her for her services and be done with it...come on...
sucker at strip club.my x told me she would break me.could not stay from her.gave her every thing.didnt tell me she was married for 1 year.call every nite to see if i was coming down.gave her half the money she made every nite.last call come down and fix flat tire went an done it.went back into club she was sitting with a man they went back for lp waited for 1 hour and left.no calls since.learned a costly lesson.somebody tell me how frigin dumb i was.leo3
I've dated two dancers, neither needed "saving" either. Both were extremely competent and one of them now owns a club where she still dances, and looks great at age 40.
It really is unfair to generalize about dancers, although it does seem that a lot of them have difficulties with drugs. I was lucky, neither of my "special friends" had that problem. Both, in fact, were good at math as well as having many more pleasants kills!
I guess I am just a rare breed, I had one customer that came in twice a week. My daughter got very sick and I borrowed $80 from him one night so I could get her medicine. The next night I asked him to come in and paid his cover and what I owed him. Was I wrong in asking a favor?
soldierswife: I don't think you were wrong. I spend hundreds in the club almost every time I go. If I could help someone help their kid for a mere $80, I'd do it whether I got it back or not. And the fact that you handled it so well would be BIG in my book. Sure, I can be a sucker but not for big bucks. Everyone has needs.
See, here's the thing, if she had the money and then some by the next nite, why did she need a "loan" in the first place?? This is classic stripper shit where they build your trust with quickly paying back a small amount of money first, then hit you up (and I'm not saying that she did this) later for an even larger amount...and so on & so on...
soldierwife- I understood what you were sayin some times folks go off on tangents with out realizing the simple point being made. So someone spotted you a few bucks and you paid him back the next day happens all the time to people.
MisterGuy, you miss the point. Some girls I wouldn't buy a pop tart for, but they give great extras--which I will gladly pay for. Some dancers I consider friends. It's that simple. There's never any pressure for any gift I've every given--but they have always been modest. I never respond to pressure from a dancer, that's bad self-control. Earlier in this thread, someone made reference to giving a gift in four figures in an effort to help someone "save herself" or words to that effect. That's just not smart. A four-figure gift is simply a bad investment, makes life harder for the hobbyist of more average means, and tells the dancer that you can be "worked." My gifts to dancers have few and far between, always modest, selective...to the "friend" types, and usually rewarded in one way or another.
None of what you've said indicates to me that you're not being played though gk (maybe willingly even?), but that sometimes is in the eye of the beholder...good luck & watch yer wallet.
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There's an old saying, "If you loan money to a friend and never see either one of them again, it was probably worth it." Same is true for giving them money.
I know she wasn't playing me because she was hot and would only make 220 from me each visit, turning down other offers from men while were spending time together. Finally, she changed clubs and the days she worked. Another dancer told me she did it because she was feeling conflicted about a regular customer. When that dancer realized the guy was me, she made me her regular (both girls very much enjoyed the way I ate pussy).
When the guy is nearby (and sometimes it was me; whether because I was a strip-club customer; or because she actually was pursuing me; or because she wants to "control" and manipulate me and other boy-toys) then the woman will act in a certain "submissive" manner. She'll seem to need protection. Her biological urge is to capture the heart of a male who will act as her protector, as the man who does all sorts of bullcrap for her in unremunerated manner. So, when he's around, she acts a certain way that seems to imply that she NEEDS this bullcrap done FOR her.
On the other hand, when a woman thinks she is not on display, she generally turns out to be remarkably competent. She can decide to follow directions, get to work on time, make sensible decisions, even add and subtract and pay the bills. She doesn't need saving from anything.
It's simply in her best interests to convince someone else to do the dirty work for her. It's a heck of a lot easier than having to do it on her own.
That's just part of the stripper shit you learn about after getting to know strippers a little bit better. Some or many will try to scam you before totally breaking things off with you. Unless you know better and don't fall for it. I even heard one story saying I could loan a dancer some money because her friend owed some money to her drug dealer and he was going to really rough her up if she didn't pay up. May or may not have been true. I didn't give any money to her. Smelled like BS. Don't loan money to dancers unless you consider it to be a parting gift so that they never contact you again.
Being inconsiderate isn't stripper shit, it's all part of the decline in civility that has become so common today.
But in other fields, there's an "excess" of civility. I find that in the typical workplace, though we all might be happy-go-lucky cheery about "how happy we are to be here," there's a very low priority placed on Getting The Job Done (and the necessary attendant complaint about someone who does not) and a very high priority placed on Being A Happy Member Of The Team. This means that "civility" is misplaced if it's viewed as something which precludes productivity, and yet that view is indeed prevalent in many offices where I've worked. You can't complain about your secretary doing her nails instead of doing the typing, that's "incivil" (sic). I think that's part of political correctness, too.
And in other places I think we have a misplaced, misguided sense of "civility." We have carpet and electronics salesmen who want to be considered "professionals" even though their "profession" requires nothing but a five minute training seminar in how to run the cash register. We have Hotel Management degrees that are supposedly an education. Aren't these excesses of civility?
Even More Direct Solution: Polygrip, should glue those dentures right back in!
Giving / Loaning a dancer $1000? A sign of impaired judgement.
Sad
It really is unfair to generalize about dancers, although it does seem that a lot of them have difficulties with drugs. I was lucky, neither of my "special friends" had that problem. Both, in fact, were good at math as well as having many more pleasants kills!