discussion comment
16 years ago
I know a girl (not a dancer)who says she knew when she reached puberty that she was not really that attracted to boys. But tremendously enjoyed seeing girls naked in the locker room during gym class. She got into a heavy petting session with a guy during her senior year in high school in order to see if there was something wrong with her; didn't enjoy the hard salami, and has never had sex with a male. She is late 30's, attractive (I find her very sensual) and in a 10 year relationship with a much more "butch" looking woman. Says as soon as they legalize same gender marriage in this state, they will be there to tie the knot. She is lesbian in the purest sense. I doubt that she will ever fuck me, but I wonder....
SC, get after your bisexual dancer buddy before she changes her mind again! And don't do bubble bath in the Jacuzzi.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Thanks for the follow-up report as promised! It sounds like everything went fairly well. I've done OTC with some 19 and 20 year old's, and the age difference can be a big downer after the sex. She was probably a little "out of her realm", which helped her say stupid things. But it sounds like you adjusted your expectations to make that part of it tolerable - and you even said you had some genuine fun. Good advice for the next guy...a few years older might be better.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Book Guy: I think Tony and his cousins own a lot of the clubs.
JayADay: Most cities have zoning ordinances and regulations that limit the density of adult entertainment establishments. The clubs that are already in existence have a sort of monopolistic position in that way. Sure, not all clubs are going to net multi-100k's; many will be less...and many will net seven figures.
parodyman: one way or another clubs probably pay for "look the other way". Put "Brooklyn, Illinois" in your search engine and see what Wikipedia has to say...
discussion comment
16 years ago
Having some background in corporate finace and banking, I have done the same type of projection as FONDL did above. The first one I did was about 20 years ago when both income and expenses were less than today. I think I came up with $300k/yr net for a medium-sized alcohol topless joint. Appeared that the bar was well run, and tip-out was a flat amount per day with $5 semi-private laps. (Those were the days!!!) City eventually closed that club.
I did a similar mental projection for my current fav club a couple of years ago, and came up with around $400k for this fairly small nude juice club. $20 laps, club gets a sliding percentage of dances counted.
I think it might have been $500k but I lowered it to $400k to allow for higher legal fees and municipal fines during "raid season(s)".
Bottom line is that these clubs can be very lucrative. Have to have a tip-out policy that results in substantial positive cash flow to the club; all other employment costs (mgr, bar, DJ) are as low as the law will allow (or lower). Tips from dancers and customers usually help with this. And finally bring in a reasonable number of customers, and watch the overhead costs closely. If the weekly model is good, the owner(s) can have their own happy ending.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Some are stupid. Many are average. A few are pretty smart. I certainly hope that a person can visit strip clubs, post on a strip club web site, AND still be opposed to abortion! It shows that there is some degree or morality amongst us.
discussion comment
16 years ago
OK, I got another one that's pretty good...I'm sitting at one of the satelite stages in a big club nursing a cold one . This cute little thang is on the stage, but my attention is on another dancer on the main stage. Pretty soon, I feel what I think is moisture on my forearm which is resting on the stage in front of me. I turn my head, and the girl on my stage is right in front of me, resting back on her elbows with her leags spread doing that in and out pussy thing. Pretty soon here comes a short little squirt of pee right out on the stage. She looks down, ponders the situation, looks up at me and states with confidence, "she's pretty drunk". She took the napkin from under my drink, mopped up her little accident and staggered off stage.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Over the years I've seen several passed-out, but those are hardly worth mentioning. A couple of events do stand out though: The first is when this total stranger girl comes bounding up to me when I'm seated on a couch in a secluded corner of the club. She jumps up on the couch, straddles me, grabs my head (the big one) and presses my face firmly into her coochie. Nice start! Got my attention. As the seconds go by I feel her hands on top of my head exerting more and more pressure. Soon she's sliding down until she collapses in a heap in my lap - she's out cold. It is shift change, so I am stroking her, trying to get her to wake up. But she is unresponsive. I'm OK with the whole thing - as long as she doesn't hurl in my lap or something. After ten minutes or so a bouncer drifts by while making his rounds, notices the situation and we manage to rouse her and he mostly drags her to the dressing room. On the way out they give me a coupon for free admission next time. Not a problem.
I drop by a week or so later and that girl is working. She remembers me - which I thought was amazing in itself. I'm hoping for the straddle again, but she's sober and appologizing for being so drunk last time. Anyway on this day I get in free, she gives me bbbj, and doesn't want any money. I give her a generous tip anyway, and we end up with an OTC relationship off and on for over a year.
She eventually disappeared. I heard that her husband had some problems with the law, and they had moved to another state in the middle of the night.
discussion comment
16 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Some great ideas so far. My club would have a metal detector like machine that everybody, dancers and patrons, are required to pass though. When you walk through, it rids you of any STD's. No condom machines on the premises. Lots of hot towels.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Design flaw? Who put the lunch room right next to the crapper? That sacred area is where all the waste comes out. For some, not design flaw.
discussion comment
16 years ago
jablake brings up an excellent point with the "justification for lower price" equation: Vol+Fam+Safe. Does she net $300/day at the club?. If she makes less, then this is a sweet deal for her. If she nets more, then she needs to think about VFS. Either way, I think $300 for her on this all-expenses-paid-vacation to a city she wants to visit anyway is a very acceptable per diem. In fact, it's generous. Let us know how it goes.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Random thoughts here...
I agree with the SIU law prof who says it's a poor allocation of police time. I wonder if having consensual sex within 500 feet of a school carries a ....well, a stiffer penalty. Been to Granite City, getting caught-up in a sting just might be one of the top things to do there.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Well, I was curious about the population of Brooklyn, so I went to a search engine and got a link to Wikipedia. According to the Wiki content, "In June 2007, it was reported that three-quarters of Brooklyn's revenue of $380,000 comes through sales tax and a $30,000 licensing fee from the adult clubs.[1]" 2000 pop. = 676.
I assume that the other one-quarter of Brooklyn's income comes from that speed trap on the south edge of town.
discussion comment
16 years ago
The idea of taxing any person or business for a non-essential purpose(rape counseling center, etc)usually leads to just another layer of bureaucracy - generally funding for a duplicate of some other agency which provides a similar service. The reason for these duplications is so politicians can take credit for creating something that is perceived to be beneficial to his/her constituents, and thus gain popularity for the next election....sorry for getting so long there! What I like to see are user fees: pay a fee - get a specific service in exchange.
This all leads to a concept that came to me last month when I was in ESL. Washington Park, IL is little municipality of 5,000 or so residents. The area is run down (low property values), the streets are in disrepair, lots of burned-out houses, very few sales tax generators; WP is poor. BUT it is the home to 7 or 8 strip clubs. Big flashy clubs and small hole-in-the-wall clubs. The smaller clubs are known for the extraordinary mileage available, and the big fancy clubs are known for pretty girls and...moderate mileage. All clubs sell liquor by the drink.
Over all, there does not appear to be very much interaction between LE and the clubs. One gets the feeling that the clubs are pretty much left alone to do as they choose. I am aware that there have been a few "enforcement actions" taken over the years -like about 10 years ago when it was decided that DATY at the stage might pose a health hazard, and that stopped in a hurry.
It occured to me that perhaps these clubs pay a fairly hefty annual "adult entertainment license" fee. A fee large enough that when multiplied by 7 or 8 adult establishments, produces an amount that is hard for the town to ignore. I would think that a town of this size might have an annual budget of $2 million or so. An annual adult license fee of $25k per club could yield $200k for the town, PLUS the town's cut of sales tax on drinks sold - assuming sales tax applies to drinks. All total, the town could realize upward of 25% of its annual budget from the strip clubs. All in exchange for a laissez-faire attitude from the jurisdiction.
I doubt that the annual fee really is $25k, but the exercise of going through the math here illustrates how significant adult entertainment's DIRECT impact on a small local economy can be. Obviously it should be important to WP, and I suspect that it is.
Somebody else can do the math on Brooklyn, just up the road. It's probably even more surprising.
discussion comment
16 years ago
This discussion morphed into a curious bent. Maybe these girls who are taking pics of their coochies are practicing for their future vocation of dancing in a (nude) strip club. It would be like "trade school" for strippers. Perhaps at a young age, they understand that a girl with reasonable looks and body can make a living "showing it off". More likely that concept is part of female genetics.
I have friends with advanced degrees who have abandoned their original direction, and ended up in a much lower paying job situation. Many reasons for that. I also know people who I think have significant personality/mental disabilities that are making $200k a year legally.
Among adults, I'm sure there is a correlation between higher intellect and higher wages. Among middle-school girls, I suspect there is a correlation between pics of their "stuff" and popularity. Among dancers: "nasty always makes more money"!
discussion comment
16 years ago
I met a dancer's family under very odd circumstances. I took 19 yo dancer to lunch, with no particular plans to mess around afterwards. But, she suggested we go to her apartment for some reason. Got to apartment, ended up in bed, got nasty, got dressed, sitting around in living room. I noticed a lot of big ticket consumer items. She admitted then that mom and 16yo sis lived with her - dad left many moons ago. So, we're chatting and all of a sudden the door bursts open, and it's mom and sis. We all exchanged pleasantries. I'm definitely a few years older than mom, so it was a little awkward for me. Dancer just told them I was her friend, and they took that in stride and it was all very....ordinary.
A few weeks later dancer suggested that mom was interested in a threesome (rent was past due). I asked if they had done this before; dancer denied it and even said she would be a little uneasy doing "something" with her mother. I considered it, but ultimately decided that it was a little too hardcore for me.
So, yeah, I enjoyed meeting the family. But I didn't want to get to know them that well!
discussion comment
16 years ago
Dancer standing up on chair/couch is great way to DATY. She gets to move around and exert pressure where it feels good for her, and I can play hide the finger the whole time. Spin her around and sample the other side; then she's ready to slide down and sit on ME. Obviously good hygene is mandatory for this type of foreplay. With a new dancer or one I've not had dinner with, if it smells bad, I gently push her back a bit and no DATY. I can't remember one ever "insisting" on it and not backing off if I didn't seem interested.
I don't think I have ever seen an "ugly" pussy. I too like fat bald ones on a petite frame best.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Years ago C-Mowes in ESL had a dancer named Bubbles. She was older, heavy and not "Bubbly" in any way. When she got over 200 pounds, they made her a bartender. Cranky with the customers, but a dancer told me she always helped the new girls hone their skills performing extras. "She really showed me how to give a guy a hj, so that he got happy faster; then I made more money 'cause I could make more guys happy...faster!" Her name was Tricksie.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I visit the "other" site now and then. All previous that has been said about it here seems to be accurate. Also, apparently anyone can delete comments, and that has happened on a couple of clubs I check on - especially when some "things you'ld like to know" about a particular dancer are posted. Sad to think those comments might be gone before you ever get there. Occasionaly there is believable info, so I continue to check.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Prior to finding TUSCL, I was limited to about five or six clubs that were advertised in the local adult newspaper. After finding TUSCL, I took road trips, spent way more than I should have, and really have had a lot of fun along the way. I've been to several of the top 10 clubs listed here. When TUSCL became a pay site, I got the lifetime membership - I knew I'd need it. When traveling, My Mileage Does Vary, but I can usually "get right to the point" without wasting much time or money as a result of the accurate information I get here.
Lurk here most of the time. Rarely post club reviews, since I'm pretty much down to one favorite club, and others are saying much of what I would say about it. I do post to "discussion" more frequently, and enjoy reading what others have to say on the topics. I appreciate the unexpected depth that emerges in discussion. Seems that a few poster's handles from the past don't seem to be around these days - times change. I hope they are well!
There are certain cities that I don't get to visit as much as I would like, but, as a result of the accurate reporting here, I am able to keep up with the changes there so when I do visit I won't be lost. Thanks to Founder and all of you for making this site a place I look forward to visiting regularly.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I too think that bigger & thicker means keep out. But I've had a lot of girls pull it down just a bit to make access easier - and then they usually they allow finger play. Loose fitting, thin material certainly gets my attention, which then leads to dances and fingers exploring. But I've had lots of girls pull away when I get under the cloth.
I dunno, maybe what they are wearing is all the have in their locker that's clean that day. Bottom line is: some do and some don't and it doesn't matter what they are wearing.
discussion comment
16 years ago
OK to "loan" money to strippers. Two rules: 1) Don't loan more than you normally pay them for FS OTC; 2) don't expect to get it back in either cash, stolen goods or services. Follow these rules, and you won't feel as stupid later.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Put it this way: a stranger has a good chance of getting some extaordinary mileage at certain ESL clubs. I agree that a regular at any club in the world may have the opportunity for sex depending on the girl and and some amount of privacy. But, overall, ESL has a lot on the menu - if you can settle for a 6 or less. I miss the days of daty at the stage - old C-Mowes, and Dollies were great for that activity.
discussion comment
17 years ago
If I sit at the stage at my favorite nude club, I tip the customary $1 per song to every girl as long as she dances "for me" on the stage. I make exceptions for some girls I have known for a long time, and will tip them even if they don't come over to my side of the stage and "show me some". They're usually focused on a regular; and I'm OK with it. They always say thanks. I generally do not tip girls who are lazy on stage or don't make an effort to be entertaining.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Yeah, maybe she moved to LA. If her phone is a cell phone, then she may have kept the east coast number and has somebody else (like a full-regular) paying the bill there.
Certainly wasn't very thoughtful of her, but a lot - make that most - dancers aren't very thoughful people. I think that if you had been having sex with her, she might have let you know she was moving because she needed some sex cash to help with the airfare.
I gotta go with the empathy-lite shadowcat on this one.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Change the law!!! Make lap dances subject to sales tax. They'd probably let the club stay open all night.