She moved...

Been there. Done that. Just move on.

"Been there. Done that." is fairly simple-minded. People and situation may follow patterns, but there is variation. Having said that the best advice is probably just to move on especially if she is ditzy. And, my reasoning isn't based on stripper prejudice or even people prejudice. If she is ditzy, then do you really want to get caught up in her less than intelligent ups and downs? Unless there was some type of super love connection on your part or you have very finicky tastes, it just doesn't seem like there is much upside given the effort involved.

Whenever I see the "Been there. Done that." mentality at work, I think what a stereotyped mental construct that person probably inhabits.

jablake,

"Been there, done that." is sometimes called EXPERIENCE. Sort of the entire basis of our life! Of course every situation may be different, but he DID ask our advice!

And, the experience can interpreted in an idiotic manner. For example, Shadowcat had a bad experience with a stripper and he was moaning and groaning that he has "learned" not to care about strippers. It is sort of like the person who dislikes Asians because they had a negative experience with one or two or even ten Asians.

The "Been there, done that" mentality is a twisted sort of "experience" because it so fking STUPID if applied blindly. A person could ask my advice concerning peanuts. And, I could reply "Been there. Don't that. Just move on." Yes, good old fashioned experience talking--or is actually stupidity talking? Yes, I may be allergic to peanuts and therefore I should lay down some blanket advice about peanuts?

This is a nice contrast wiht the other post about the ATF who found out she has AIDS.

It seems to me, your ATF has pretty clearly communicated her interest in maintaining contact. You have reached out, and she has not. I would say send one more message along the lines of "Give a call any time if you just want to talk, but otherwise goodbye for now". Then move on. And when you remember her, remember the good stuff, and get rid of the "regret", because the regret part never happened.

Seems like there's a country song in this somewhere. ;-)

I was talking with a stripper over the phone and she wanted to "borrow" only $20 and I told her *NO* because she hadn't repaid her other debts to me---either with service or cash. A young man from the "hood" says to me essentially how stupid could you be lending her money?! I reply that I didn't expect to be paid back when I "loaned" the original emergency funds----not even paid back in the form of sexual favors. My EXPERIENCE indicated that the odds of any form of repayment were extremely low. Having said that every once in a blue moon a stripper will repay borrowed money and even thank me for helping her out of a really bad situation. That is rare, but it feels very good to help someone out especially when it is appreciated and they even manage to repay what was borrowed. Almost as nice (but rare) is when the stripper will offer sexual favors or dances in lieu of cash payment. If someone asked my advice concerning lending strippers money, then I could respond with the idiocy of "Been there. Done that. Just move on."

jablake, shadowcat's response may have been short and without a lot of compassion, but your responses sound angry. "Been there" is a cliche, but there a certain elegance to it that conveys that gatorjoe is not the first person to go through something with a stripper and shadowcat's advice "just move on" is exactly on point: no need to waste time with any more words, thoughts or actions, just move on.

Geeze. No wonder I have that guy on my ignore list.

Good manners would suggest that she would at least take the time to say good-bye. When a person just disappears to end a relationship of any kind, the person left behind might feel a personal rejection that irritates or even hurts. Ending things this way gives a person the feeling of being dumped, especially hard to accept when you know, objectively, you haven't done anything to deserve it. If there were real emotional ties then it will take time to move on. If there are no emotional ties, but still the annoyance of being treated disrespectfully, just text her, tell her you didn't like what she did and the way she did it and make a clean break.

Well, I texted her something simple wishing her good luck and asking her to keep me updated. She responded back that she will. Not that worried as i probably will never see her again, but still feel confused about the whole thing in the sense of she still has her old phone number (which out in LA would be long distance) so I feel on some level I feel like I might be lied to. Oh well, just gives me more girls to spend money on.

My answer to your first question is: who cares, it doesn't matter anyway.

My answer to your second question is: no.

I hate to be blunt, but obviously this woman is not interested in you (although you may have been interested in her). You should be honest with yourself and face reality that she only spent time with you in exchange for maintaining the financial relationship (and perhaps getting a good free meal; I've never met a sex worker who would turn down a free meal). She is providing a service; you are paying her money for it. It's a commercial transaction. There's nothing wrong with that, but you are not "friends" and certainly not "lovers". I have people I have commercial relationships with (clients who pay me money, or vendors to whom I pay money). We do all the things you and your ATF did -- exchange gifts, go out to dinner, socialize in non-work settings, etc. None of that makes us friends, however; it is still a commercial transaction (and if you are the person selling something, frankly, it's just good marketing, that's why I take my clients out to dinner). Is it theoretically possible that a purely commercial transaction could cross the line into a real friendship or a romantic relationship? Sure, but it doesn't happen very often. And when it does happen you'll know -- because money will completely stop changing hands (even in the form of free meals, "loans" etc.).

There is nothing wrong with enjoying the relationship with a customer or a provider, but there is something wrong with losing track of your boundaries. You may have thought there was something really special there, but she obviously saw you as just another customer.

I've seen a lot of guys on this site talk about their ATFs as if they were describing semi-romantic relationships. I'm sure it's a sore subject, but I think it is more than a little sad. I am not suggesting this is the case with your situation. It sounds like you are behaving normally, and are just a little sad that she moved away. When I've had a good provider who moved away, I was sorry too (because of the quality of the service provided). But there are certainly posts on this site about ATFs that reveal men who have trouble with maintaining boundaries -- who think a stripper is really their best friend, and then are shocked when she moves away without leaving a forwarding address. Respectfully, guys who talk about their ATFs as their soulmates are deluding themselves -- you don't pay money to a soulmate.

Strippers, escorts, massage parlor girls are all great people to go to for fun (of whatever variety is your pleasure) and some sexual release. But a paid for relationship is not a place to go if you're looking for love or romance. The girls, by the way, understand that very well, and see the relationship with their regulars as just a way to make money. Again, I am not suggesting you fall into this camp, but when I hear/see some of the lonely old guys on this site rhapsodizing about their ATFs to whom they pay $$$ in exchange for a goodnight kiss after dinner, it makes me cringe. If loneliness is your problem, that is no solution.

Shadowcat is right. If your very favorite dentist/doctor/lawyer/car repair guy/stripper moves away -- oh well, find a new one. As long as you have the cash, they'll be happy to have you as a customer.

Hi jimhalsted,

Could definitely be anger. It is like when a buddy told me he knew that there could never be any hot dancers at Angels based upon his experience (a single visit) and the fact that the dances were inexpensive. Anyway, I wanted to stop in and see if any of my hot friends were working and he throws a hissey fit. He goes into the club with a super piss poor attitude, but surprise surprise the hot dancers (my buddies) are working and he just has a fantastic time spending money like it was water. For whatever reasons when he went back he kept getting lucking and kept spending money.

So this guy is very bright on many subjects, but he has this idiocy about "you get what you pay for" (Angels is a huge exception to that perfect rule according to him) and another idiocy is that if he experiences something then by god that is the way things are for all time for everyone. The old one size fits all mentality that brings out the anger in me.

"Been there. Done that. Move on." is a proud refusal to think, imo, and it goes perfectly with the stereotyping mentality. Yes, stereotypes can have some validity but it soon devolves into a form of idiocy in that the stereotype has to be true. Normally, a better product has a higher price ergo "you get what you pay for." Well, sometimes the cheaper priced product is better--too many people can't comprehend that simple reality.

If I'm on your ignore list shadowcat, then it is because you don't like to think. You make an idiotic statement such as the reason a man spends money on a fat dancer is because he can't afford better. Now, I actually use to feel the same way--when I was very young. Why spend money on a fat dancer unless it is because you can't afford higher quality. Well to my surprise even when hot dancers were available at the same price some customers only had interest in the fatties. IOWs, men have different tastes in what is attractive. Some men are attracted to fat dancers. For whatever reasons you reject that possibility. Probably because it would require you to do that which you are loathe to do: think.

Similarly, you have been mouthing off about the government potentially threatening your favorite club. The government is the greatest as long as they are screwing other people, but if there is some chance it might interfere with your fun, then it is time to get all upset. Reminds of the very nice customers at the old Trap. They couldn't comprehend that it was just a matter of time before they would be affected by all the governments' BS.

As far as me being on your ignore list: that would work. :)

"As long as you have the cash, they'll be happy to have you as a customer."

I've had the bad kismet that the dancers supposedly want to stop accepting cash or gifts from me so as to allegedly have a real relationship. Whatever their rationale, they refuse to continue accepting my money and the relationship ends. I feel hurt and frustrated, but I insist any friendship have financial support as part of the bargain. The money is my protection against feeling much more than I already do.

Yeah, maybe she moved to LA. If her phone is a cell phone, then she may have kept the east coast number and has somebody else (like a full-regular) paying the bill there.
Certainly wasn't very thoughtful of her, but a lot - make that most - dancers aren't very thoughful people. I think that if you had been having sex with her, she might have let you know she was moving because she needed some sex cash to help with the airfare.

I gotta go with the empathy-lite shadowcat on this one.

rofl "empathy-lite" :)

I have a short comment for jablake -- shadowcat is clearly not an idiot and neither are you. But expressing anger does no good. Neither your personal reputation nor the joy of participating in this discussion board is helped by unnecessary insults like the one you delivered to shadowcat. You can give useful advice and opinion without insults. And since you are on shadowcat's "Ignore" list he doesn't see your insults anyway. So what is the point?

And a longer comment for njscfan -- i do apologize for having dissed you at the time you first posted on this discussion board. That occurred several months ago. I was out of line. Your posts since then have varied from excellent to outstanding. I think the one that is six posts above is outstanding. I'm sure that gatorjoe2 benefited from reading it.

Finally -- anybody who gets confused between a positive business relationship and a romance could benefit from reading njscfan's post. Due to the very nature of the strip club business it is easy to get confused, especially when alcohol is present. It is true that once in a LONG time, a positive business relationship leads to romance, but we all know that if "true" romance is what we are looking for, strip clubs and strippers are not the best places to look.

Gator,

I'm sure this is more than a long shot but anything is possible(is "anything is possible" a cliche like "been there done that?"-- oh, shit I said "long shot" too- damn-I hope you know who is out to lunch(FUCK ME, I did it again!) Oh well, never up never in-- so anyway Gator-- I'm wondering if it is remotely possible that you came across to your stripper "friend" in any way like, say oh I don't know-- say like jablake comes across here. I'm just sayin...

Hi arbeeguy,

If I was on his ignore list, then that would be a different story. And, you don't need to be an idiot to make idiotic comments. I consider my friend to be highly intelligent, but he could definitely make some mindblowingly dumb comments about women and stripclubs. For example, he was upset that the dancers at Angels didn't really love him despite how freely he spent money on them. Somehow he has the idea that if he spends enough money that should buy love. I've seen other intelligent men spend, spend, spend thinking that the woman will fall in love----probably because they keep hearing it is all about the money, which is only partially true at best. A customer should believe that almost all the time the stripper just wants his money, but at the same time that bit of wisdom isn't a whole truth. Even with strippers who claim to be 100% about the money they can get off track . . . doesn't mean they love you or even like you, but the money isn't No. 1.

Anyway, I digress somewhat. :) Shadowcat doesn't need to mention me at all. For the most part I've avoided commenting his posts. That mindset of been there done that just really rubs me the wrong way. And, this getting all bent out shape because the government may destroy his favorite club is sort of antagonizing because that is or has become a basic function of government. The wonderful freedom to dictate to your neighbors through your democratically elected government. The government should steal his properties and money after his lawyers have assured him he is in the right both legally and morally. At that point after he has really been severly financially injured by his corrupt government I want to hear all the flag waving nonsense and how those government soldiers are fighting for our freedoms.

Have any of you wondered why Shadowcat gets paid so much attention in the first place. You follow his every post and treat him like he is King of the strip clubs. Have you looked at your "king" lately? Is a viagra popping, silk shorts wearing incontinent old man who you want to represent you? Don't forget the attitudes that made Archie Bunker a household name. Shadowcats flag waving, racist, homophobic rants are well documented. I guess nothing embarasses some of you.

The King aka shadowcat ain't all bad. He believes in supporting the troops by hiring their wives and girlfriends as sex workers. A lesser man would deny them financially meaningful employment or treat them to charity when they're perfectly capable of wiggling their butts or laying on they're backs or using their mouths they way the King intended. As far as the Viagra, I'd also give him kudos for that. Drugs despite all the government propaganda can serve as well as destroy. His incontinence . . . well he pays well in that he buys a lot of dances and besides getting shit on by him is probably better than getting shot at in Iraq. I don't particularly care for the flag waving or racist or homophobic rants, but if it floats his boat. :) BTW, I missed or it wasn't important to me any of his posts that were allegedly racist. Was it his use of descriptor bubble butt? That is high praise, imo, and normally it is black women that are blessed with the bubble butts.

their

Blah blah blah...

Received a PM from an allegedly 19 year old blonde haired blue eyed callipygous dancer with all natural full sized American udders (she later explained she's a farm girl from the heartland and "udders" is what polite company calls 'em and callipygous is Greek for the other half). She claims that she'd rather be shot at in Iraq than shit on by customers. Furthermore, she's decided to join her brave God loving husband who volunteered 5 years ago to liberate the Iraqi people, secure America, and collect a paycheck. Moreover all the freedoms I enjoy are due to men and women like her husband who are willing to not let the "terrorists" win. If it takes a 100 years, then her and her husband will be killing Iraqis for 100 years or longer; God permitting. Furthermore, due to her valuable experience as a stripper she will be able to extract information from "terrorists" (threaten 'em with breastboarding, more than one way to suffocate an Iraqi to death) as well as provide much needed entertainment to U.S. troops.

Surprisingly she favors shutting down South Carolina strip clubs. Her reasoning is that she doesn't want any more young girls to get shit on. Furthermore, shutting down strip clubs will reduce violent crime (slapping & shitting on young girls) and provide more reason for people to volunteer to fight in Iraq (less entertainment here and more in Iraq).

Lastly, she encoraged me to cut coupons for the troops and write my congresspersons for higher taxes on everyone (freedom ain't free). She is embarassed to admit she's a registered Democrat, but it ain't a big deal cause she always votes Republican unless the Democrat is also for killing Iraqis.

Could it be Jablake, that you received this alleged PM on April 1st?? Hmmmm.... let's see, what is April 1st? Hmmmm....

Could it be a joke? LOL. :) But, she was a day late. Well, could be stripper time. I love these strippers that say 5 minutes, just 5 minutes, and show up 5 hours later. Of course, hot non-strippers do the same.

Oh, another PM from the American heartland. She thinks men that shit on young girls should be sent to prison!

Sorry, but with that typical prison state mentality of a true American she's got to be the real McCoy. I think I'll suggest that failure or refusal to wear Depends for men over 60 be a misdemeanor for those with previously spotless records, and a third degree felony for those with prior arrests or traffic tickets. The government can do a Madison Avenue educational campaign informing old men of their duty to don Depends. :)

When someone moves and begins a new phase of their life, it's pretty common to cut ties with the old. I've known lots of friends who did that over the years, particularly when they're young (eg. how many of your high school or college friends are you still in contact with?) it doesn't mean there was never any friendship to begin with, it just means that they've decided to move on. Strippers aren't any different. You shouldn't take it personally because it isn't about you, it's about them. It always is.