Comments by chitownlawyer (page 9)

I can't improve on BookGuy's list, except perhaps to delete SF--I understand that the club scene in that town is relentlessly and patently mercenary, as opposed to at least trying to hide the cash nexus. Until about September, Dallas would have been on that last, but it has fallen greatly since then, courtesy of LE.

An old Arab saying: A woman for duty A boy for pleasure. A melon for ecstacy. I am not making this up.

BookGuy: I __don't__ like SCL, __because__ it is nothing but a gossip board. Occasionally I will see references to someone I know, and it is a little fun to watch folks flame each other, but that is definitely short-lived amusement. I probably look at SCL three or four times a year, only check on gossip at places I have already been. I never use it for guidance to strip clubs in cities that are unknown to me. To use a journalistic comparison, TUSCL is like _Forbes_, _SCL_ is like _People_ or _Us__. At best, it is a guilty pleasure, but does not have useful advice or info. So, I'd have to pick option #4 to DennySpade's original question.

Stupid sartorial comments: The stripper who looked at my cufflinks and said, "What are those?" The stripper who was unbuttoning my pants and, on hitting the second button (of three), said, "How many of those are there down there?" Theological inquiries: "Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour"? Management issues: "Are you a manager?" "Do you know where I pay tip-out?" (Said with a fistful of money in her hands; if I had been thinking a little faster that night, I could have covered the cost of that night's lapdances.)

I am not a big fan of sitting at the stage, and I only go up there when I see a girl that I want to have a private with...and I generally will only get a single-song's-length dance if the dancer is bad, or doesn't touch me below the waist. Otherwise, three songs is my minimum. So, unless something goes bad, I am approaching the stage with the idea that I will shortly be transferring anywhere from $30 (plus tip, at Brad's Brass Flamingo, home of the $10 dance) to $100 (no tips at these prices) from my pocket to the dancer's pocket (or Chivas bag, as the case may be). Therefore, I don't have a problem with tipping $5 instead of $1. This is particularly true since I am not going to the rail to decide if I want to get a dance from the girl--by the time I have gotten to the rail, I have already made this decision, based on the dancer's appearance and interaction with other patrons. (Although something that happens at the rail that I might not have been able to perceive from my table, like excessive piercings, can change that). I am going to the rail specifically for the purpose of getting the dancer's attention such that she will come to my table later for a private. Therefore, I need to tip a larger amount, so that the dancer will remember me. So... all you guys who are at $1...for God's sake, stay there. If you raise to $5, I'll have to go to $10 just to stand out.

I think DATY with a stripper is plenty nasty, and I have done so on several occasions.

In Illinois, the boyfriend immunity period is 5 years. So a nineteen year old can do his 14 year old girlfriend and not be subject to prosecution for sexual assault. He can still be prosecuted for several misdemeanor offenses, such as indecent liberties, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, etc. Obviously if there is a question of actual physical force, all bets are off, and the state can move forward with a rape charge.

I would not do so, for the above-stated reasons concerning mental and emotional stability. However, about nine years ago, a colleague of mine left his wife of 15 years for a dancer. The late 40 something lawyer and the mid 20-something dancer lived together/were married for that entire time, only recently getting divorced. That nine year time period probably compares favorably to the average length of a marriage in which one party _is not_ a stripper. However, who knows how long he stuck with her because of the quality of the sex (which was, I understand, at least at the beginning, very high--isn't it always, though?)?

"Shadow since you have two children at least one of your partners didn't pass out before you could get the deed done" Actually, "trojan"greg, maybe the mother(s) of his children DID pass out...but that just wasn't much of a deterrent. I know some guys who would consider unconsciousness on the part of the woman to be a moral victory. It would certainly cut down on resistance. You could leave the ropes in the trunk. Make no mistake...come 1-1-08, the outrage of 1984 will be avenged. This time, my boys have learned that you go for the party at the Playboy Mansion (hosted by Hugh Hefner--U of I 1952) the night AFTER the game, not the night BEFORE.

But think of it, if it hadn't been for Prohibition and the resulting bootlegging activity, we never would have had the Kennedy family.

Umm, are you sure she really "passed out"? When I was an undergraduate at Major Big Ten State University (see you at the Rose Bowl), I heard of some girls pretending to pass out as sort of a "face saving" way to avoid having sex, when they had let things go a little further than they wanted, and couldn't think of any other other way to get out of the situation. When I was 19, I don't know that I could distinguish between a real and feigned loss of consciousness, especially in a dimly lit dorm room after I had a fair amount of alcohol on board. Actually, I'm not sure that I could do so at 45, since I've never seen anyone pass out....

Peter Lorre, as Ugarte, the black marketeer: "Rick, you despise me, don't you?" Humphrey Bogart, as Rick Blaine, proprietor of Rick's Cafe Americain: "I would if I thought about you that much." The above snippet of dialogue from "Casablanca" encapsulates how I believe dancers think about us. But most of the time when they are dancing "for" us, they are thinking about the fight they had with their guitarist husband, the grocery shopping they have to do when they get off of work, their kid's parent teacher-conference last night, etc.

Chitown Rule of Life #46: The optimum age for women under all circumstances, and for all purposes, is 26. Strippers are not an exception to this rule. A 26 year old is still young enough to be "fresh", but has had enough experience that she knows how to please.

The only time that things get better in VIP is where the dancer is, beforehand, very explicit about what will happen there. Lines such as "I can really take care of you back there," "I'll make you feel really good," etc., etc. are, in the words of contract law, "mere puffery", and should be disregarded. The one exception...Oasis Goodtime Emporium in Atlanta. VIP is expensive, but worth it.

Actually, this happened to me earlier this week. I was getting gas at a gas station located near a club I go to frequently, and near a club that I rarely go to. As I was pumping (gas, that is), a woman who was obviously a dancer asked me how far it was to a certain chain restaurant. She was hungry, had to be at work in a certain amount of time, and wanted a certain dish from that restaurant. Bottom line, she could never make it back and forth to that restaurant in time to get her food, and she did not want to order from the club's menu. So I volunteered to make the half hour trip to get her the food. When I got to the club, I got free cover (I'm not so nice that I would pay for the privilege of bringing her food), and she gave me three lap dances. Cost of the food was $8.00. In exchange for that I got $100 worth of laps, and $7.00 cover into the club, which included a ticket I used for free admission to the club I had intended to go to. So, I netted $99.00 for 1/2 hour of time. Not what I charge professionally, but I also didn't have to deduct business overhead and taxes. I had never seen the dancer before, and probably will not go into her club again. It was one of those strange episodes that life sometimes includes.

I would think that St. Louis would have to be up there. You can find the whole range of clubs, from the glittery and upscale to hole-in-the wall, and a range of dancers from glamour-girl models to "any-port-in-a-storm" types. The clubs have the longest hours I'm aware of, outside of Las Vegas, and security is not a problem. After I have gone to clubs in other cities, I am often reminded of how good I have it here in my own backyard.

I would imagine that if dancers were employees, rather than independent contractors, clubs would have to impose cover charges in the area of $15-25 to guarantee enough cash flow to pay the girls. Ironically, you could go from the current situation, with lower cover charge during the day and on weeknights (or cover totally waived) to having lower cover on weekend nights, since that's when the most people come in. It would be interesting to see if the "superstar" dancers would try to get "premium" wages, rather than there being a "one price fit all" wage scale. In any event, it 's not going to happen, because the clubs do so well under the current system. And the nature of the employment lends itself to true "independent contractor" status.

I've always thought that he is John Forsyth, like on Charlie's Angels.

Minnow, although we've conflated them in this conversation, Persians are ethnically different from South Asians. By definitions Persians are Aryans (indeed, were the first Aryans, from which sprang later European stock), and therefore European, whereas the Indians/Pakistanis/Bengalis are Asians.

This reminds me of a conversation I had about a year ago with an old high school classmate who is now a colleague at the Bar, and includes among his clients one of the more "extras-laden" strip clubs in our area. I forget how the topic even came up, but we started talking about the club. Without lying, I certainly did not go out of my way to tell him that I had actually been, on one occaision or twenty, inside the club we were talking about. Meanwhile, he was trying to impress me as to how "clean" the club was, no extras allowed, close camera surveillance at all times, etc. (I knew this was bullshit, and I hope he did, too) I left the conversation wondering, in the words of the First Lady of Soul, "who's zooming who?"

And here's a redacted version of the disposition of the charge concerning a brother who tried to put on a horizontal version of "South Pacific": In re David P. Schluckebier RECOMMENDATION: Disbarment. DATE OF OPINION: October 11, 2007. Between 1998 and 2004, Respondent lived in Palau. In 2002, Respondent married Hong Kun Xue a/k/a Xue Hong Kun ("Xue"). Xue operated a restaurant that also included a massage parlor and a house of prostitution. From 2002 to 2004, Respondent was aware that Xue operated the restaurant as a prostitution business. Between 2002 and 2004, Xue deposited a portion of the funds she received as a result of operating her prostitution business into a Palau bank account which she held jointly with Respondent . Respondent knew that a portion of the funds Xue deposited into the joint account were derived from her operation of a prostitution business. The Palau National Code defined prostitution as a crime. By holding the joint account with Xue, Respondent knowingly acquired, possessed, or controlled funds that constituted the proceeds of a crime in violation of the Palau Code. In 2004 Xue, was criminally charged with money laundering. Respondent was called to testify as a witness during Xue's criminal trial. During his sworn testimony, Respondent testified that the funds he and Xue deposited into their joint account were derived from wedding gifts, his family and his salary (liar, liar, pants-on-fire!!!). This testimony was false; Respondent knew that the funds that he and his wife deposited were the proceeds of her prostitution business. The Tribunal noted that Respondent once thwarted a police sting on his wife's business. On a day that Respondent was present at the restaurant, under cover plain-clothes officers entered the restaurant in search of evidence of prostitution. Upon their arrival, Respondent discreetly conferred with his sister-in-law who then approached the officers to advise them that only regular massage services were available at the restaurant. We note in mitigation that Respondent has no prior disciplinary record. However, Respondent's prior good conduct is insufficient to outweigh the severity of his misconduct. We recommend that Respondent be disbarred.

Here's a report on a former brother at the bar who got in trouble for trying mix business and pleasure: In re JOHN WALTER ACKERMAN, Attorney Number 8591 531 Commercial Street, Suite 604 Waterloo, Iowa 50701-5497 Mr. Ackerman, who was licensed in 1971, was disbarred on consent. He falsely represented to Iowa jail officials that he was an attorney for a woman detained on criminal charges. When he met her at a corrections facility, he offered her a fee discount for defending her in exchange for sex. He was later found guilty of prostitution and assault based on his advances to the female prisoner. He failed to notify the (disciplinary commission) of his conviction.

AN, your comment takes me back to several threads we've had about "sympathy dances." As I recall, the consensus whenever this is brought up is that the free market does a wonderful job of allocating resources to their best use, and sometimes this is done by the market pushing resources out of sub-optimal uses, and towards more nearly optimal uses. In other words, you don't help a dancer by giving her financial return that may keep her dancing, when she should be fulfilling her highest and best economic use as a cashier at Wal-Mart. But, like a lot of market principles, it is sometimes easier to do the thing that appears "compassionate" in the short run...thus, the dollar on the rail.

Well, as of May, 2006, there was an 18 year old example at Oasis Goodtime Emporium....I believe she danced under the name "Trinity."

From the Belleville (IL) News-Democrat, 11-06-07: Supreme Court candidate's son arrested in prostitution sting BY BRIAN BRUEGGEMANN News-Democrat EDWARDSVILLE --The son of a candidate who ran for the Illinois Supreme Court has been arrested on a charge of soliciting a prostitute. Thomas Gordon Maag, 32, of Highland, was arrested Friday during a sting operation conducted by Granite City Police. Thomas Maag, an attorney, is the son of Gordon Maag, a Democrat who ran in 2004 for a seat on the Illinois Supreme Court. The race between Gordon Maag and Republican Lloyd Karmeier set a national record by attracting more than $9 million in campaign spending.