Comments by chitownlawyer (page 14)

Who knows why there can be such a variance in visits to strip clubs. I have also had it happen the other way--crappy first visit followed by great subsequent visits. The only sure variable I have ever fixed on is dress, and this is strictly conjecture--although it has seemed to be correct, even at a real (great) hole-in-the-wall club in eastern Kansas, as well as at some "gentlemen's" clubs. In any event, I try to remember that I am not the only factor in the equation, and the reason for the change in climate could well be some non-me factor: maybe the dancers are pissed at the dj, maybe there is some "whale" in the house who is drawing a disproportionate share of the dancers' attention, etc.

See "Glossary", immediately below link to this discussion board on menu to the left.

Which means I'd have no excuse to constantly cool down with gin-soaked sponges, the way that WJ Bryan did in real life (and if a little of the gin happens to be used internally, I suppose that can't be helped...)

Federal laws against prostitution would not necessarily be illegal, depending on whether the law is written in such a way to come within the Commerce Clause, that portion of the Federal COnstitution that says that the federal government may regulate interstate commerce. I don't doubt that a federal law prohibiting interstate commerce for the purpose of promoting "traffic in women" would be constitutional.. In fact there was such a law for many years, the so-called Mann Act. I'm not sure if it was ever repealed, but it was abused for many years to get men who took their girlfriends across state lines (there was no requirement that the sex be paid for, although the statute certainly also implicated paid sex---but it was considered "commerce" that you paid for the gas in the vehicle that carried your girlfriend across state lines, bought her plane ticket, paid for her meals in another state, etc.) This was how they got the famous black boxer James Jefferson about a hundred years ago. Of course, this was passed at a time when most states had adultery/fornication statutes. I'm not sure that the federal government could punish activity that was not a crime in the state where the actors came from, nor in which they committed the act.

In the St. Louis area, prostitution laws are rarely enforced, and when they are, it is usually streetwalkers how are the targets. Although occasionally I do hear about a bust on an escort service. Several months ago, the NYC cops busted a couple of the top tier escort services. There was a bust around here about four months ago. The state cops told all the real hookers to get off the streets for a couple of days, and brought in female state troopers from outside the area to pose as hookers. When the johns would proposition the hookers, the girls would tell the guys that the act would be done "around that corner over there." Of course, "around that corner over there" were 15-20 state and local cops, several camcorders, and whatever fish they caught before the current guy. One guy was quoted on the camcorder as saying, "I knew she couldn't be a real whore..she was too good looking." Whenever I read about one of these busts in the paper, it amazes me how common the name "John DOe" is. A colleague represented a guy who got caught, and was a year away from getting his teacher's pension. To avoid the morals conviction (which would jeopardize his teaching job, and therefore his pension), they pled the guy to "disorderly conduct," which has a greater fine than misdemeanor solicitation, but fewer "collateral consequences."

Someone on SCJ hypothesized that between Thanksgiving and Christmas, customers have less money to spend, but dancers have greater cash needs. This should spell opportunity for the PL with liquid assets to dispose of. I look forward to testing this hypothesis as the opportunity presents itself.

When I was a young lawyer in the late 80s, I went to such a place on the NW side of Chicago, for a business lunch. The man I was with ( a consulting engineer on some technical issues involved in a lawsuit) hinted that some other services were available, but I think he was just pulling my leg. I was obviously quite naive, and he was probably having some fun with that. The presence of the "lingerie models" came as a complete surprise when one approached our table, as it was not advertised by the restaurant (which had been selected by the engineer, not me). I have never heard of any such place since. I suppose that the restaurant simply paid the girls, who were low-end professional models, some fairly modest amount of money to do the modelling, in the interest of getting more traffic in the restaurant. Unless there was more going on, I can't see any other way that they got paid. I don't recall any tips from the diners to the girls, or any suggestion that such should be made. More of my professional education came at the end of the month, when I got the expert's bill to pass on to the insurance company..and it included the charge for the lunch that he had "taken me out for"!

I'm not sure that many dancers make a higher income than me, although it is certainly possible that some dancers take home more than I do. I remember one time talking to a stripper who was planning her "escape" from stripping, and had no concerns about it, because she was training for a new job in a truly lucrative paramedical area, and the average pay in her area was the same as she was clearing as a stripper. However, she became very discouraged when I pointed out to her that, in a civilian job, she would have no choice about whether to pay taxes (she was "pro-choice" on the tax question, but the answer had always been "no.") I also introduced her to her new dependent, FICA. It turned out that she was going to take quite a hit in her bid for respectability. She recovered quickly, however, and suggested that this was all the more reason that I should tip her more generously than usual....

One of my grandmothers who was a professional dressmakers, explained it to me.

I will confess that I have occasionally been tempted. But I have always successfully fought off the urge, on the theory that to buy a stripper an outfit may well put you on the far edge of PL-dom.

Indeed I have, but only in the OTC context. I enjoy it as a form of foreplay. I suspect that it would not be well-recieved in a strip club. My analysis follows a thread of a couple of months ago, in which we concluded that a stripper's willingness to perform a certain "extra" is inversely proportional to how "intimate" that extra is. But I've never asked, so I don't know. It might be that a stripper would value the opportunity to do anything for a customer that involves the customer paying the dancer, but she doesn't have to touch the customer.

The following resulted from about three minutes' searching on yahoo.com. Perhaps they will be edifying. www.gwu.edu/~medusa/stripping.html www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/16211471 http://www.thestormproject.com/2.0stripclubsaccordingtostrippers.html http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1493192/posts http://www.katefrank.com/pubs/identity.html

This may not technically count, since it happened during a private, but is probably in the spirit of this thread. I'm sure that it has happened on stage somewhere. A dancer once stuck wooden matches into her pierced nipples, lit them, and had me blow them out. More wierd than erotic. By the way, I am severely near-sighted (though, through state-of-the art optometry, my glasses don't give that away as much as they might), and I really kind of freak out if a dancer goes after my glasses, even for fun.

Nothing good in Missouri. About fifteen years, a maverick prosecuting attorney took it upon himself to clean all the "smut and vice" out of St. Louis. His crusade ended in a hotel room when he propositioned an undercover St. Louis policewoman for sex, but his legacy remains. I learned everything I know about clubs in my own backyard (St. Louis) from Chandler, so I say, "What he said."

Of the extras that are available in clubs, handjobs are the "good angel" sitting on one of your shoulders, with fucking and bjs being the "bad angel." From a purely sensual point of view, I would prefer fucking or getting blown. But when you are dealing with a strange woman who you have never met before, and may never meet again, a handjob will get you the same release, with the least number of epidemiological concerns. In other words, I won't enjoy the handjob like I would f**king or a blowjob, but I also won't obsess over every itch or burning sensation for the next month if I only get the blowjob. Of all ways to reach an orgasm with a woman that I don't have an emotional tie to (in other words, a woman that I am f***king, rather than to whom I am making love), my preference would be a blow job, because it requires little exertion or effort, no attention to the woman's pleasure, and is ALL ABOUT ME. However, in a club, a blowjob may be the most dangerous activity to your health. The risks of vaginal sex are well known, and most dancers are going to insist on a condom. I don't know that there are are any health hazards from a handjob other than, as set out above, chafing. Virtually everything you can get from f*cking, you can get from oral sex (either from the flora that live in the mouth, just as in the vagina, or from blood in her mouth), but hardly anyone in clubs uses a condom with oral sex. So you have all the health hazards of vaginal sex, with none of the customary protections. In some clubs, there is just enough privacy for a hand job, but not enough for other activities, so handjobs are a useful expedient. But I understand that Chandler's question had to do with preferences among available forms of sexual activity, so this statement is not really in keeping with the spirit of the original question as posed.

None. I really prefer that we leave Halloween to the shorties, and conduct ourselves as adults. Sorry.

It's at the edge of a ghetto...walk west, and you walk directly into the 'hood. Walk east, and you walk into the cornfields. I have been there late at night (around midnight) and I have never felt unsafe in the parking lot, which is well-lit, and you rarely have to walk more than about 20 yards to get to your car. There is a tavern across the street--an old VFW hall turned into a "straight' bar--that is getting very popular, and draws a crowd, which I see as increasing safety. You're probably well-advised not to walk off the Dollie's lot...but why would you? I have no experience in the area on weekend nights. As a life long resident of the area (other than college, law school, and a couple years practicing law in Chicago), my perspective on the E St. Louis/Washington Park/Centreville area is that there is a lot more imagined danger than real danger. If you keep your head down, mind your own business, and don't make an ass of your self, I would think you would be fine. I had a college girlfriend who was black,and always maintained that whites were safer in all black neighborhood than were blacks, since the police really don't (in her opinion) particularly care about finding the perpetrators of black-on-black crime. However, re my opinion on the relative danger of Washington Park at night---YMMV.

I went to Bare Elegance once, last January, and it certainly met my standards of "class." See the reviews. The neighborhood in which it is located is admittedly a little seedy (out by LAX). However, the women are gorgeous, and definitely cover a wide range of ethnicities. Minnow has been there more than me, and might want to chime in. The only drawback I can remember is relative early closing time during the week.

It seems that, no matter how easy FOUNDER makes it, my maladroit computer skills come out on top. I can't believe I missed SoCo, which clearly has better ratings than D-2. Downtown Peoria is now torn up due to Interstate highway "improvement", so it looks like SoCo will be it. I looked at the reviews for Amsterdam. They all scream "thug club" without saying it. I'll skip it.

It's also a better alternative if you don't want to get that involvrd with the chef.

I am a pragmatist, not a dogmatist. Sometimes I like to pause and consider all possibilities. For this reason, most of my club visits are in the 2 1/2 to 4 hour range. However, there are other times when, as a dancer once said to me, "It's all about the nut," and I do like quick service...I'm coming in for quick release. On this score, I can tell you the following: One evening last summer, I dropped my son off at a sports practice, drove fifteen miles (virtually all interstate) to a club, had a meaningful discussion with a dancer, and was back to pick up my son within an hour and fifteen minutes of when I had dropped him off--and I had driven thirty miles.

Bones: The limitations period on personal injury suits in Illinois is two years. The suit was filed at just about the last possible moment to come within that period (any later and the suit would have been barred on the basis of expiration of time).

I agree with Yoda.

1, Slapping her ass. 2. Moaning or talking dirty ("You have a big dick", etc) 3. The worst-- the skull blowjob--tucking her head against her chest, and rubbing my dick with her head. This is almost insulting. If a dancer is not going to touch my dick (through my pants), then she should just leave that area alone. (Of course, as I have related to some of you, if a dancer does not touch below the waist during the first dance, there will be no second dance. But a skull blowjob doesn't lead to a second dance, either.) A dancer who pinches, bites or kisses my nipples will have me following her around the floor like a puppy. If she unbuttons my shirt and does it directly to my skin, I will be following her around the floor and throwing money at her.

Because I have not figured a reliable way to find out if a particular girl is in a club at a particular time, I have to go because I like the club. The possibility that a specific favorite dancer will also be present is an added bonus. By the way, I think that I can't find out if a certain dancer will be in the house is because management doesn't know. I suspect that managing and staffing a club with dancers has a lot in common with herding cats.