gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
Comments by gothamyte (page 7)
discussion comment
5 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
last time i dozed off at an SC is because i had to pick up someone from the airport hours later, early in the morning.
what better way to kill time waiting for a 7 am flight to touchdown than chillin at an SC that closes late to help cut the time and make the drive to the airport shorter
so i was dozing in and out, sitting in my chair, killing time. nobody bothered me tho
discussion comment
5 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
i agree. it sounds like it'd be totally false.
until i thought about it.
and the key word here is "favorite". why any club becomes your "favorite"--even if it's your favorite for a short while, is because there's a particular dancer there that you're in love with.
i'd have to admit, she's...probably right about it...in all of my cases, when i think about it.
discussion comment
5 years ago
LDJunkie
Enjoying lap dances for 15 years and counting...
well, i'm gonna take this convo into left field, but maybe it'll help
i've thought about stripper vs. PL attractions when i pondered why do i immediately click with certain dancers and totally not click with others?
i reckoned it this way: maybe it has to do with your/my government name. (hear me out)
in my world, folks who have a name that sounds similar to mine, we get along. or if, let's say my name is steven which starts with an s. dancers whose government names are stephanie, stacey, we'll somehow get along fast. either on her side or on mine. but chicks whose names start with a first letter that's not typically associated with mine first letter, so, let's say my name starts with an s and hers start with the letter d for debbie. we won't click as fast. that's in my world. i've noticed that.
so in relation to you, find out this chick's government name. maybe it's something close to yours. or something that matches your name. i've also noticed that letters around your name can also compliment. like if my name's steve. folks with names that start with r and t, like richard and tom, we'll click because their names starts with a letter that's near mine.
take the famous duggar family on reality TV, for example: the parents with the what 18 kids where everyone in the family starts with the letter j, i believe. that's no accident. that's why they're a family. that's why you sometimes see such "cute couples" as Joan & Jeff, Chris & Christine, etc. Or even Michelle & Barack--M and B do 'go together' like millions and billions. This is also my reason why sometimes torrid love affairs pop up with folks...names and letters chemically pull them together...
i'm only answering your post this way, with this response since you seem at a loss for your attraction to this chick and you're wondering why you think of her so much. i don't have a rational answer. but i'd say start there, with her actual first name--see what her actual name is and see if it's a name that's like close to yours or compliments your name somehow. blame the attraction on that and chill on that.
you're happily married w/ kids. avoid going the otc route with her.
discussion comment
5 years ago
sinclair
Strip Club Nation
i use strictly cash for everything..and i'm proud of it
check out what i gotta say about it:
started about a decade or so ago--started using cash to get myself outta credit card debt. then i quickly fell in love with it. now i rarely use credit cards. use cash everywhere i go.
and call me a lame weirdo, but i also keep a change purse (of sorts) attached on my keychain. and i now pick up loose coins wherever and whenever i see 'em in the street.
sounds like i'm joking, but i'm not.
only thing that bothers me now: y'all be surprised how many grown ass adults don't know how to count cash anymore. and it feels like it's getting worse. i get the wrong change handed to me almost daily.
i'm this close to finally paying off a personal loan i got years ago, and this one grown-ass chick i go to see to drop off my monthly payments, doesn't know how to count cash. i'll sit in her office (because up until 2 months ago, they accepted cash payments in person, for years) she'd ask how much i'm paying. i'd mumble it to test her. she fakes like she's counting it carefully, in front of me and i can easily tell she has no clue how to count money. no eye contact with me and she's hella nervous. totally amazing, right. it's 2019. and she's american. grown ass woman too. and then she types in her computer what amount she thinks she heard me say. it's always off by like $15-20--in my favor. so i don't say anything and it's why i keep going to her office instead of anywhere else. lol. it's so real, she not only gets the dollar amount wrong, she gets the change amount wrong, too. so she really can't count money. even when it's really easy change like a quarter, a dime and a penny. she doesn't know what that amount is. oh and of course, i never pay the amount that i actually owe, i always overpay weird ass amounts on every bill i ever owe, always. so, if i owe $50 for the month in repaying my personal loan, i'll pay $114.56. she knows that i'm always doing random, crazy amounts and it's never the same month to month. so, she'll type in her computer and i'll see on the receipt: $136.19 or something instead of the actual $114.56 i gave to her. only once did she shortchange me a few dollars. i let it slide.
was this close to telling her manager the first couple times it happened but i don't wanna see her get fired because of me--believe it or not, i felt guilty, like, who else pays cash this day and age--it's my fault. and like i said, it's been totally in my favor so far, so why speak up now. i'm always amazed when i walk in and see her still working there.
you can bet i know all the spots where to pay my bills. cell phone, cable TV, etc, they got kiosks in their respective buildings that take cash, so i pay cash to them. i don't use automatic bank pay. this is better for me, anyway. and this is why i started picking up loose change in the street and putting it in my "coin purse" on my keychain. it's like everybody in the world is unknowingly helping me pay my bills by dropping loose change everywhere. so, thank you for dropping your pennies and nickels in parking lots, etc.
since many of yall use plastic to pay, y'all probably don't know that for almost 10 yrs now, you can pay off bills at 7-11 and dollar stores. yep. that's what the private loan folks got me paying now since they no longer accept cash in their office. they texted me a bar code. i go to 7-11 and 7-11 scans the bar code from my cell phone. it pulls up my account and i pay whatever i want, whenever i want. since 7-11 is open 24 hours. as long as your payment is like at least $2.00, you can pay.
so this is like i said, another reason why i'm scooping up loose change from the ground whenever i find it, daily. better believe i'm adding that loose change to my personal bill payments via 7-11.
and i dunno about your town, but around here, some overnight mcdonald's kinds shuts down at a certain part of the night and only accepts cash. and i'm always smiling like, yep, i got cash.
discussion comment
5 years ago
shadowcat
Atlanta suburb
SC's were a place for the 'best or newest' sounds...it was new to you/me. Dozens of songs that are in my music collection today I only heard first at an SC. Even if it was non-offensive, popular music. I just hadn't heard it, yet. And a chick dancing to it made it more visual. Or you heard it a bunch of times on the radio already, but one sweet lapdance with that song, made you love it forever.
First time I heard Queensryche's "Silent Lucidity" I was in a Florida strip club. Song had already been out about 4 years, but with the right type of dancing blonde chick on stage, that song breathed better.
I'll give you the greed killing stripclubs. Those prices are outrageous.
discussion comment
5 years ago
gammanu95
You can unfriend me, unfollow me, and unlike me; but you cannot unlick my butthole
yeah i was one of those folks who 'always wanted to experience an earthquake' until i experienced one.
yo, i don't ever wanna experience another one. one was enough.
discussion comment
5 years ago
shadowcat
Atlanta suburb
my two cents:
this part of the article is on target--especially the second statement:
"The Baby Boomers are retiring. They were for 20 years an amazing customer base," Mr Markovitz said. "The millennials are not coming to the strip clubs that much. That's the issue. "
as for me, i've said this before on here: i definitely fully blame today's music. as well as the access to it. but mostly, it's today's music.
check this out: a generation ago, a.k.a. 30 yrs ago late 80s, folks generally didn't have access to "free music" the way we do today via the internets. we had to pay for it. and we didn't have a "free access" to money widely with credit cards as we do today. we had to have cash and pay cash. so that's why you saw packed clubs and packed strip clubs. it seemed like back then, only the DJ was the collector of music, be that DJ a good one or not a good one. anyway, the DJ had the collection of music, like a walking museum that they spent everything on, and we went out to wherever the DJ was to experience all the music we couldn't afford in a short span of time. that's how we got around to buying so many records with the cash we didn't have--we all met at a venue and paid one guy to give us his music collection. that's it. it's same with strip clubs back then. that was part of the reason to go to a strip club: you're going to hear all the new music from back then that we couldn't afford or have access to. there was no internet that everyone had access to widely, to even know what music you were missing out on. do not underestimate this.
now, 30 yrs later, elementary school kids who are 5 yrs old have access to all the "free music" they want due to the internets, so why do we today have to go anywhere to experience music? i can carry a DJ's crate-load of music in my ipod, in my cell phone, whatever. so, i'm not going to leave my home to see the DJ. i'm not going to a strip club. i've got music at home. it's not necessarily about money or affording a SC or not--the powers that be, screwed up the game by allowing us "free access" to music. so, now, we're not showing up anywhere, publicly. we don't need to anymore.
and the way i sees it, the second part is: the folks who were born from the 1950s-early 1980s are all in the same generation that bopped to DANCE music. and that's the only generation that bops to it. notice how every different generation bops to something different: in the 1700s, 1800s, they bopped to classical music. early 1900s, it was blues. mid 1950s it's jazz. early 1960s it's rock. i see now that an entire generation of people get BORN that way. they're wired to one rhythm, one sound. that's why one generation can't stand the next generation's music. that's why in the 80s, nobody's listening to elvis.
people can claim it's record companies managing the sound we hear today. i think it's already wired to that generation first. they just bop to what they bop to. that being said, strip clubs are created so entertainers can DANCE in them. that's the basic, main draw. so if dancing isn't happening, folks won't show up. kinda like football stadiums are for football games. if it's a watered down version of football being played on the field, folks won't show up.
today's music isn't 1980s/1990s DANCE music. so these exotic dancers don't dance anymore. folks aren't gonna show up to pay for that. the generation that's dancing today bops to different music and they basically can't dance at all because they aren't wired that way, the previous generation was wired that way and this current music isn't dance music anyways to dance to. so, you see emptier clubs.
in other words the previous generation was the only dance generation who also happened to make dance music. to me, it was the golden era for stripclubs--you finally had the perfect merge: a generation that's wired to dance, make dance music that they could show off dancing to on stage. so, SCs in any other generation is going to pale to the 80s, 90s, early 00's strip clubs. they had SCs in the 60s. guess what? they weren't packed. the music was different. the dancing was different.
trust me, the 80s / 90s decade would've been soooo different with today's wide access to "free music". wayyyy less people would've showed up to the SCs and regular clubs then.
i clearly remember, tupac coming out with a record in the early 90s. me wanting to hear it, it was new music, new rap back then. so i had to choose: pay $15-$20 on his record at sam goodie or waxie maxie or whatever. or go to the SC, pay $15-20 there for the night to hear his record and hear what else was new out there by the DJ, see how folks vibed to it, see how dancers bopped to it, since all i had was cash, no credit card access then. fast forward to 2019. tupac comes out with a new record, i can find the free download online somewhere. i don't even think about going to a SC to hear it, because i can find it myself. that's what's going on. so i blame today's state of music...and its access to it...
discussion comment
5 years ago
Muddy
USA
my biggest weaknesses are: 1) when she's in a barely naked outfit, yet not naked. drives me wild. especially when she's more naked than any other dancer. 2) chicks i have no access to in real life, come give me a lapdance--like this one time this beautiful young chick just seemed rich. she came off like she just married a cat with thick money and was on her last days stripping. she had a fat brilliant rock on her hand. I was such a peasant to her. she loved it. I loved it. every inch of her was well manicured, polished, clean. she just kept giggling at me feeling her up like crazy. Of course i never saw her in the SC again. 3) pretty face with a toned track body 4) how come nobody's weakess is a stripper that can DANCE. really rare these days. not just move, dance. shout out to the late 90s / early 2000 strippers. they could dance
discussion comment
5 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
oh and i enjoy when i return like a few days later and their A/C is STILL out
discussion comment
5 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
those are some of my favorite nights, when the AC breaks down
i dig seeing the extra sweat on the dancers
i'm always laughing to myself like "why the fuck are they still open? there's no A/C. and why am i still here?" pathetic.
i like how some dancers start walking around naked more and mgmt just lets it slide
enjoy how the dancers will huddle around the big-ass fan like it's a water-cooler and they suck up all the fan air and mgmt has to shoo them back to work like they're flies
good times
discussion comment
5 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
musterd21 hit it on the head.
i'll just get one of my family members to give up one of their cars for a while and stay parked in my spot for like a month, so nobody else can. as i park at visitor. and then at some point, i'll mention it to my neighbor she can't park on my spot anymore and still have my family member's car stay parked in my spot for another 2 weeks so they get the message. it's my spot, so it won't be towed.
of course by now i'm used to parking in vistor. i can easily go a month or more parked there and actually, visitor parking is near the exit of the complex, so it's convenient. it just sucks the time my space is actually open and i park at it, i go to the store for 20 min, come back and my spot's taken by her peoples. that quick. nobody ever asks for permission or anything.
i've let it slide for 10 yrs. it's hard to suddenly bring it up now. i've never mentioned to her it's been a problem all this time. but the new paiting on the parking lot by management finally gives me an ice-breaker to tell her from here on forward, your peoples cannot park here, period. my mom/dad's/sister's car is gonna be parked here for like a month straight for you fools to get the message.
you solved my problem. this oughta work...
btw, not only is she elderly, but we're not the same race. if we were all the same race, yeah, we woulda had this convo long ago. i'm black, she's white. i'm not scared of anybody, but i was always wondering if by telling her that her peoples can't park on my spot, it's gonna come out in some weird tone, being i'm younger than her and she's older, and we're not the same race, even though it's my spot. if we were closer in age, we'd have this convo sooner. and we're cool, we get alone fine.
discussion comment
5 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
again, she's not a stripper. she's a regular chick who's a classmate from highschool.
trust me, i knew by her asking me of all people for $, she's exhausted other outlets she had and hasn't repaid them. i knew going in i have zero chance of getting my $4,000 back. but i hoped i'd have a chance of reaping at least $500 back. i can't let her walk away after $100.
i'm just asking, is there a way to make someone act responsibly, even for a short while. no legal stuff. i want her to man up. i don't care if i don't get my $4,000 back. i want her to make regular payments of any kind of amount for like a regular 6 months. be responsible. she made to back-to-back payments of $50, then promptly quit. wow.
what kind of manipulation is there out there to make her be active and repay just a little more of this 4 stacks she owes so i can move on? is there a contest i can create for her or something?
man, i WISH it were a stripper who i loaned $4,000 to who was not repaying me. it's rougher when it's a classmate from high school. like, c'mon. i know you. we grew up together. please raise your dignity up. i guess that's what i want to see from her. she's not a drug addict. she's not homeless.
what's so ironic was the $4,000 was indirectly to help her get employment (taking classes towards a certificate, clear up tax debt she owed so she can get a full check.) so she got the certificate. she passed the class. the tax debt is now gone. it's been a year. she don't even have to repay the full $4,000 and i don't want sexual favors. just repay something. actively.
there's gotta be a good idea out there to get her to pay something. this repayment should not take forever.
discussion comment
5 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
dude, i like that idea of having someone i know parked there for a straight week. i'm going to try that! don't know why i never thought of that
discussion comment
5 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
I gotcha. Regulated locally.
I've also noticed that wherever there's a university or college, for some reason, a strip club is not too far from it.
But, c'mon, don't you think a U.S. President will have some kind of influence on stripclubs? During The Clinton Administration, the dot.com businesses were poppin' off and maybe somehow that indirectly effects The SC scene...I dunno; just wondering aloud.
Like, if we get a certain kind of female President, in the near future, won't there be a dip in women working at SCs? They'll look at the female President and think, "...hey, maybe I should be doing something different. Look at Madame President. She's in a suit and shaking hands overseas. Look at me, I'm in VIP sitting on someone's boner."
Like, I'm not saying this is the case, but I could see it, if someone thought, "hey, if SCs and massage parlors were poppin' off during The Clinton Administration it was maybe because it was after 12 straight years in a row of Reagan-Bush. Now we have a totally different cat in the driver's seat with Clinton and he's much younger. It's time to party....!"
And not saying this is the case, but I could also see it where Obama becomes President and a whole lotta folks drop out of the mongrel / massage parlor / strip club business saying to themselves, "look at Obama. Maybe I should be out here chasing a real dream..."
The way Guiliani gets elected mayor of New York City and next thing you know, all the mongrel and SC spots start drying up. Sure, one could argue, it's the times that made things change and it was time, shit changes; or one could say Instagram and Snapchat with chicks posting themselves naked on it all the time is killing SCs, not U.S. Presidents. Then again, you got folks out here like ex-stripper Cardi B, ex-stripper Eve, ex-stripper Blac Chyna getting girls to think, "hey, maybe if I strip first for a couple of years I can land me fame like Cardi B."
I'm just wondering aloud what indirect effect U.S. Presidents have in all this....
discussion comment
5 years ago
Ch3ll
Arizona
i'll ONLY CONSIDER helping her IF (and that's a big IF) HER YOUNG children are somehow involved.
for example: a dancer i ain't seen in a minute one day on a whim showed me a pic on her cell phone of her young daughter, when i ran into her at the SC. 3 months later, i run into that dancer again and she ask me for $200 so she can move. she didn't mention her kid at that moment, but i gave her the $200. she said she'd pay me back. of course she never did. i didn't mention her kid when i gave her the $200, but the money was for that. God knows what that dancer did with the money, if she actually moved or whatever. but i gave her the money strictly with her kid in my mind. never met her kid. don't even know if she had custody of her kid. but on the off-chance that i could indirectly help a child, i'll consider it. haven't seen that dancer again so far and that was a good 7-10 yrs ago?
discussion comment
5 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
i get upset because i feel like cell phones are so common nowadays, that i'm wondering if folks are mis-remembering what it was like in the late 90s because they're so used to cell phones today.
how could cell phones be "common place" as some folks claim online, in 1999, 2 years before 9/11? two years before the first apple store? before y2k (before the year 2000, before the 21st century)?
on the otherhand, i can believe it when folks in message boards say it was common OVERSEAS in 1999 to have a cell phone. because economies are different, it's a little more spacious overseas so you may not find a landline phone, a bunch of different countries are land-locked over there with a bunch of different languages floating around, ok, i can get that.
but here in the u.s. where we're a bunch of states united and aim to mostly speak english. i don't see cell phones just catching on with a whim without serious tragedies making you want to get a cell so you can contact your loved ones at a moment's notice.
besides it's not like in 1999 those cell phones had internet on them or cameras for selfies. so, how could they be that popular or COMMON PLACE. weren't only weekends and nights free or something lame like that back then and when you called during the day you were charged or when you were roaming you were charged so why not just pay 25 cents to 35 cents for a payphone?
i'm getting upset seeing folks say they had cell phones in 1995, in 1997, in 1998 in 1999 and they were common place. nah. i want soft proof of that. i don't remember it like that.
discussion comment
5 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
and i get upset because this is my perspective:
historically,
jan 1999 - 17 yr old high school student adnan has a cell phone
jan 1999 - president clinton still has 2 more years as president. i don't remember any coverage of him having a cellphone.
april 1999 - columbine happens (you don't see/hear anything about any of those kids with cell phones)
october 2000 - uss cole is attacked (i don't remember hearing anything about cell phones)
sept 11 2001 - attacks on u.s. you don't see images of folks on their cell phones (as you would today)
the way i remember it, things like columbine followed up by the uss cole and 9/11 attacks was what stirred people into getting cell phones. the virginia tech mass shooting in 2007. things like that, TO ME, got people into getting cell phones.
like, the first iphone came out in 2007. first apple store opened in 2001. how is it folks are saying it was COMMON PLACE to have a cell phone in 1999? i'm just not seeing that.
y'all gotta prove it to me, if you had one in 1999 and think it was common place.
discussion comment
6 years ago
GeneraI
All your base are belong to us.
my only input to this is:
i usually give the same fake name to dancers. so i gave my usual fake name to this dancer, one night, right? as we exchanged numbers.
next time she sees me in the club, she's like, "hey, what's up, and then says MY REAL NAME" very dramatically.
i'm like WTF how you know? she's like, "stupid your name comes up in my caller ID on my phone."
damn damn damn
i also like to give random fake names when i'm at chick-fil-a. lately, i've been giving names of my relatives who passed on. nice to hear it out loud.
discussion comment
6 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
i had one of those square black cases that could hold multiple dozens of music cds.
no idea how many cds i had in it at that time. it was full. and it was big enough, i realize now that it probably looked like a laptop bag.
some passerby probably thought it was a laptop resting in my passenger seat and broke my back window to get into my car.
broad daylight. busy residential area. i knew it was only cds, so i didn't think that to anyone else it could appear as something else.
discussion comment
6 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
i have to admit, telling a cop (strictly about/pertaining to this particular situation only) made me feel super duper old, and like a wuss.
can't remember the last time i witnessed a thief in progress so i couldn't think of the best response. a tiny part of me was like, well, the owner of the car needs to learn this lesson. and since the punk didn't exactly force his way in, and/or break glass or anything, just took advantage of an unlocked car, i dunno....and had the cop not been there, i wonder if i would've went ahead and honked my horn at him.
and by the way, i've had my car broken into 2x. had stuff stolen--they broke my window in broad daylight in a relatively busy, well-manicured upscale neighborhood which shocked the hell outta me. it was a good lesson to not leave anything visible in my car seat no matter where i am....
discussion comment
6 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
If someone could make an app where I can see what's going on, real-time at a nearby club that'd be dope. Hate to show up at an D.C. and it's a miss, but you don't wanna leave thinking the grass may not be greener at another club at that moment. But an app could show you what's go in on at the other clubs at the same time and you can decide where you wanna be.
discussion comment
6 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
I'd be at an SC more if they just stayed open till 4 or 5 am or later on the weekends like they used to. Thought I heard one of the more popular one is closing now at 2am instead of 3. I used to get there at 2am after work and only have 45 minutes to party. So I had to goto the private parties. It's someone's actual home so there really isn't a set closing time. Sometimes it feels like a regular private house party except some attendees are walking around nude. That's the other plus: since its a private home, you know how women are, they'll feel right at home walking around nude. They feel like the situation is private enough, isn't more than 1 to 2 dozen PLs around, and a private home with carpeting and hear will make you feel comfy enough
But going to an SC in late May made me remember the 'crowds', diversity, loud music and chaos
discussion comment
6 years ago
gothamyte
from that Adam Westsiiiide of Gotham
A dancer who is performing at said party gotta invite you. Then once you goto one, you'll find a way to be put on someone's email list or text message list for future parties. Or they'll say the next party is at the same house next week, so you know where to be. But these parties aren't fully private--they need PLs to keep it going. It's just the average SCer doesn't seem to know about it or if they do, only visit once and prefer the 'security' and publicity of a SC.
Keep in mind these private parties have less girls than a typical SC would offer. The mileage is higher, but certain choices and diversity will be lacking. And space is way tighter. No stage, no pole, etc.
On the plus side, they stay open later since it's someone's actual private home, you're sitting on someone's home furniture which is more comfortable and the makeshift bar in the kitchen will cook up something nice you can't get at an SC for a better price.
discussion comment
6 years ago
jackslash
Detroit strip clubs
Happened to at least 2 dudes I know--
sexing older female teachers when they were younger. Interesting to hear these 2 dudes discuss the whole thing once they were older/adult men. It may need to be shown more: candid convos from those young victims once they become adults
discussion comment
6 years ago
cocoachanel__
Maryland
But, Li'l Momma, if you're still trying to dance, here's my 2 cents:
If you're from Maryland, why go anywhere? There's over 2 dozen clubs in MD. Who are you to seek out places outside of Maryland WHEN YOU'VE NEVER DANCED BEFORE? Conquer home first!! Especially if you're new to dancing. If you move out to Philly or Atlanta as a newbie, you first need to adapt to a new city and then learn how folks get down attitude-wise, out there. You're already in Maryland--a state that has a decent amount of strip clubs compared to its neighbors. Virginia and DC. Plus you already know how folks get down in Maryland. You know the music of the DMV, you understand the swagger. Go to Atlanta, you won't quickly get their swagger, etc. Find yourself getting swindled by cats who prey on out of towners. Especially since you're starting out and you are young. What's the rush? Why jump into 'big leagues' when you're just beginning? Always start and practice in your backyard first, ma. Take 6 months and start out at at least 2 different DMV spots...
If I were you, visit every club you can available to you in the DMV twice. If you're really into research. And pick a club from that, to start out with, when you start dancing. Just to get your feet wet. Why move outta town when you're just getting your feet wet?