Is the American strip club dying out?

shadowcat
Atlanta suburb
"Can you imagine a boss telling a secretary to make an appointment at a strip club?"

These days, few executives would be willing to risk possibly losing their jobs and the resulting personal humiliation by seeking reimbursement from their employers for an outing at a strip club. But strip club operator Alan Markovitz said such calls were typical in the late 1980s and 1990s.

Mr Markovitz, a Michigan entrepreneur who has strip club operations in four states, told the BBC he would routinely get notified that a powerful executive was arriving to make sure that they got good seats.

"That was the norm back then," he said.

During the industry's heyday, customers weren't so timid. Strip club operators would even play along, using innocuous-sounding names on their credit card slips to avoid suspicion.

Indeed, strip club outings were tolerated on Wall Street and in other industries for years until female employees filed suit against their employers earlier in the decade and won tens of millions in lawsuits.


In addition, the industry is facing some punishing economic trends including a declining customer base, an abundance of free internet pornography and rising employee costs.

At live adult entertainment venues, selling sex it isn't nearly as profitable as it used to be.

Data from market research group IBISWorld estimates profit slumped more than 12% to $1.4bn (£1.2) in 2018, down from $1.6bn in 2012. Sales during that same time period plunged about 7% to $6.9bn from $7.4bn.

Annual revenue growth at US strip clubs was 4.9% between 2012 and 2017, slowing to 1.9% from 2013 to 2018 and is projected to fall to 1.7% by 2023, according to IBISWorld.

The number of strip clubs has also declined in recent years in major US cities and their surrounding suburbs.

In New York City, tightening regulations may force more than half of the Big Apple's 20 joints out of business, according to the New York Post. The number of strip clubs in Atlanta has dropped from 45 to 30 in the last 10 years, according to Alan Begner, an attorney who represents strip clubs.

Some operators are being forced out by landlords while others are facing new bans on nude dancing in clubs which serve alcohol, where they get most of their profits, Mr Begner said.

Strip club owners are also facing federal class action lawsuit brought by dancers demanding to be classified as employees as opposed to independent contractors under the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act.

"That changes the game for a strip club operator," said Corey D. Silverstein, an attorney based in Bingham Hills, Michigan, who represents Mr Markovitz and other operators. "Now you are talking about having to comply with various state and federal employment laws. And on top of all of that having to pay benefits and (having to) treat all employees equally. It's a mess."

According to Crissa Parker, a stripper whose app called The Dancer's Resource allows dancers to warn others about conditions at clubs, performers also aren't benefiting from the increased legal protections and are seeing their incomes fall.

The changes add unwelcome stress for the many performers who hold other jobs like teaching and strip as a side job to make ends meet.

"You would never know that because they don't want to be judged due to the stigma," she said. "No one makes the same amount they made five years ago. The price of a dance has never changed. It's always been $20 regardless of the cost of living, house fees and whatever else you have got going on."

Strip clubs have also lost their cool among younger consumers. With some clubs stuck in the Mad Men era, young people are choosing to stay home where they have easy access to internet pornography.

"The Baby Boomers are retiring. They were for 20 years an amazing customer base," Mr Markovitz said. "The millennials are not coming to the strip clubs that much. That's the issue. "

For one thing, many millennials can't afford to party at strip clubs. As CNBC noted, they have an average of $36,000 in personal debt excluding mortgages. Even those young consumers that can afford to patronize the clubs are taking a pass.

But it's probably not the nudity that is turning millennials off of strip joints.

A 2014 survey by women's magazine Cosmopolitan, found that 89% of respondents - who had an average age of 21 - had taken nude pictures of themselves. Only 14% said they regretted doing so.

However, Vice pointed out many millennial grooms feel uncomfortable being around strippers and would prefer to bond with their buddies over a game of laser tag or by organising trips.

Kailin Moon, owner of New York's Rosewood Theater, a high-end gentlemen's club, argues that most adult entertainment venues have failed to keep up with the times. He prides himself in offering customers an experience lacking what he calls a "strip club vibe" without stripper poles. Performers are dressed in cocktail attire and are referred to as "atmospheric models."

But whatever the fate of strip clubs, pole dancing is showing its stamina.

Beyond the backlit interiors of strip joints, pole dancing has entered the mainstream, in the form of fitness classes.

"Pole dancing was this dirty little secret," said Devon Williams, the owner of Pole Pressure, a fitness studio in Washington, DC.

Now, "part of the stigma is going away", she said. "People want to get fit in alternative ways."

Using pole dancing to stay fit
Pole Pressure offers 35 classes every week that emphasize both strength and body confidence. Ms Williams says the studio's Washington location guarantees a wide variety of clients: former strippers, lawyers, judges and babysitters.

"You can get any kind of person and they're just a person who loves the pole," she said.

And Ms Williams said she still gets calls every week from women recently hired as strippers, looking to improve their skills. For her, strip clubs may be on the decline but there is no shame around its signature dance.

"If someone were to call me a stripper I'd say thank you," Ms Williams said. "That means I'm confident and strong and it looks like I know what I'm doing."

"People are finding their best lives upside down."

39 comments

Latest

Papi_Chulo
5 years ago
Pretty-good article - where did you find it?
Papi_Chulo
5 years ago
"... Kailin Moon, owner of New York's Rosewood Theater, a high-end gentlemen's club, argues that most adult entertainment venues have failed to keep up with the times. He prides himself in offering customers an experience lacking what he calls a "strip club vibe" without stripper poles. Performers are dressed in cocktail attire and are referred to as "atmospheric models." ..."

What a doofus - no wonder I've never heard of this clown club
Bavarian
5 years ago
Young men have no business being in a strip club anyway. They can chase pussy at bars and night clubs. Once those young men reach middle age, they will be joining us at the strip club.
nicespice
5 years ago
For anybody who looks at stripperweb, there was one user called “Melonie” who sadly got banned in I believe 2015. But she was prolific and I read through some of her old posts and this kind of article was something up her alley and she said all this years ago—starting from at least a decade and I think it was actually earlier than that.

Personal opinion. It won’t ever truly “die”. It declines, yes. But moreso I think it’s more of the case that it’s evolving.

Bavarian
5 years ago
I used to peruse stripperweb eons ago and do remember doomsayer Melonie.

I agree. Strip clubs will not completely die out. Middle aged men need a proper place to lust after young women.
Papi_Chulo
5 years ago
I remember Melonie but didn't know she got banned - I had assumed she had moved on (I thought she was retired from dancing by the time she was posting on SW) -I don't recall her posting anything too egrigeous so I wonder what got her banned?
Bavarian
5 years ago
I think Melonie got banned because she was too negative about the future of the industry. The gals at stripperweb didn’t like that.
Charles Paisley
5 years ago
Most of the main cadre of female dancers got banned at one point or another. Many went out in a blaze of glory, and I still have the screenshots somewhere of "goodbye" posts that went completely scorched earth on SW and their founder. Amazing how much that site ate its own, and didn't need any men to help them do it. Melonie was probably banned for some of her more political viewpoints, which could get quite heated in the "Political Poo" section.
goldmongerATL
5 years ago
Back in the late 80's my neighbor stripped at the Gold Club in Atlanta. The Gold Club made the Cheetah look low rent. Mob ties were its undoing. One of her regulars was a now deceased CEO of Coca Cola. I wonder if he expensed it?
minnow
5 years ago
Google "Melonie Charms" for some pics. She was one of the more voluminous posters over there. Many dancers miss her for the financial tips she'd give them. A nearly equal number vilified her for her political viewpoints as well as her tenacity in debating. She told her "pulling herself of by the bootstraps " story, culminating in retiring from dancing, and becoming an ex-pat "south of the border" (guessing Belize.)
Icey
5 years ago
I think night life in general is dying. The main reason being corporate control and obscene price gouging....and an increase in social retardation among younger people.
DandyDan
5 years ago
I think on some level it is, but most of the clubs that I have seen close up did so because they were run by incompetent businessmen. No one ever decided when they grow up that they want to run a strip club; it's always something people stumble into. Eventually, word of mouth spreads and you get found out and many strip club owners don't adjust.
Muddy
5 years ago
I don’t m ow where it’s going but I just have his feeling we are going to look back at these years as the good times. I’ve been seeing enough hotties and having enough fun not to be yearning for more.
Estafador
5 years ago
So why are we criticizing millennials for wanting to lomive life and respect their wives feelings instead of wasting their youth inside a dimly lit building all night? Sounds kind of backwards to me. What's wrong with laser tag?
twentyfive
5 years ago
This stuff goes in cycles, at some point someone will innovate and change the basic model and be successful and the cycle will change as others emulate that success
gothamyte
5 years ago
my two cents:

this part of the article is on target--especially the second statement:

"The Baby Boomers are retiring. They were for 20 years an amazing customer base," Mr Markovitz said. "The millennials are not coming to the strip clubs that much. That's the issue. "

as for me, i've said this before on here: i definitely fully blame today's music. as well as the access to it. but mostly, it's today's music.

check this out: a generation ago, a.k.a. 30 yrs ago late 80s, folks generally didn't have access to "free music" the way we do today via the internets. we had to pay for it. and we didn't have a "free access" to money widely with credit cards as we do today. we had to have cash and pay cash. so that's why you saw packed clubs and packed strip clubs. it seemed like back then, only the DJ was the collector of music, be that DJ a good one or not a good one. anyway, the DJ had the collection of music, like a walking museum that they spent everything on, and we went out to wherever the DJ was to experience all the music we couldn't afford in a short span of time. that's how we got around to buying so many records with the cash we didn't have--we all met at a venue and paid one guy to give us his music collection. that's it. it's same with strip clubs back then. that was part of the reason to go to a strip club: you're going to hear all the new music from back then that we couldn't afford or have access to. there was no internet that everyone had access to widely, to even know what music you were missing out on. do not underestimate this.

now, 30 yrs later, elementary school kids who are 5 yrs old have access to all the "free music" they want due to the internets, so why do we today have to go anywhere to experience music? i can carry a DJ's crate-load of music in my ipod, in my cell phone, whatever. so, i'm not going to leave my home to see the DJ. i'm not going to a strip club. i've got music at home. it's not necessarily about money or affording a SC or not--the powers that be, screwed up the game by allowing us "free access" to music. so, now, we're not showing up anywhere, publicly. we don't need to anymore.

and the way i sees it, the second part is: the folks who were born from the 1950s-early 1980s are all in the same generation that bopped to DANCE music. and that's the only generation that bops to it. notice how every different generation bops to something different: in the 1700s, 1800s, they bopped to classical music. early 1900s, it was blues. mid 1950s it's jazz. early 1960s it's rock. i see now that an entire generation of people get BORN that way. they're wired to one rhythm, one sound. that's why one generation can't stand the next generation's music. that's why in the 80s, nobody's listening to elvis.

people can claim it's record companies managing the sound we hear today. i think it's already wired to that generation first. they just bop to what they bop to. that being said, strip clubs are created so entertainers can DANCE in them. that's the basic, main draw. so if dancing isn't happening, folks won't show up. kinda like football stadiums are for football games. if it's a watered down version of football being played on the field, folks won't show up.

today's music isn't 1980s/1990s DANCE music. so these exotic dancers don't dance anymore. folks aren't gonna show up to pay for that. the generation that's dancing today bops to different music and they basically can't dance at all because they aren't wired that way, the previous generation was wired that way and this current music isn't dance music anyways to dance to. so, you see emptier clubs.

in other words the previous generation was the only dance generation who also happened to make dance music. to me, it was the golden era for stripclubs--you finally had the perfect merge: a generation that's wired to dance, make dance music that they could show off dancing to on stage. so, SCs in any other generation is going to pale to the 80s, 90s, early 00's strip clubs. they had SCs in the 60s. guess what? they weren't packed. the music was different. the dancing was different.

trust me, the 80s / 90s decade would've been soooo different with today's wide access to "free music". wayyyy less people would've showed up to the SCs and regular clubs then.

i clearly remember, tupac coming out with a record in the early 90s. me wanting to hear it, it was new music, new rap back then. so i had to choose: pay $15-$20 on his record at sam goodie or waxie maxie or whatever. or go to the SC, pay $15-20 there for the night to hear his record and hear what else was new out there by the DJ, see how folks vibed to it, see how dancers bopped to it, since all i had was cash, no credit card access then. fast forward to 2019. tupac comes out with a new record, i can find the free download online somewhere. i don't even think about going to a SC to hear it, because i can find it myself. that's what's going on. so i blame today's state of music...and its access to it...
Icey
5 years ago
It was true for clubs and bars, but SC DJs have always played popular inoffensive music....a SC was never a place to go for the best or newest sounds.

I think the introduction of bottle service killed a lot of night life.

Plus just the rising costs. I went to a strip club on the 4th, $75 special event cover charge, it was $200 later in the night... $15 beers...$40 lap dances...and there was hardly anyone there and the fireworks weren't even all that. Greed is killing a lot of it....

Also look at the general lack of talent these days. They'll hire just about anyone ....tons of butter faces... lots of hustle...just to get those house fees from as many girls as possible. That impacts business.

The corporatization of strip clubs...pretty much every independent club I've been to has had a much better vibe than a corporate clone club.
gothamyte
5 years ago
SC's were a place for the 'best or newest' sounds...it was new to you/me. Dozens of songs that are in my music collection today I only heard first at an SC. Even if it was non-offensive, popular music. I just hadn't heard it, yet. And a chick dancing to it made it more visual. Or you heard it a bunch of times on the radio already, but one sweet lapdance with that song, made you love it forever.

First time I heard Queensryche's "Silent Lucidity" I was in a Florida strip club. Song had already been out about 4 years, but with the right type of dancing blonde chick on stage, that song breathed better.

I'll give you the greed killing stripclubs. Those prices are outrageous.
Cristobal
5 years ago
Seeing live naked women dance (and more) will not die off regardless of generacional trends/conditioning because sex (real/imagines) is part of our DNA fabric.

The author cites the availability of Internet porn as a causé of the death of the strip club, but many strip clubs use social media (the Internet) to promote their clubs.

Tell the author to visit Synn or Knockouts in COI on a Thursday and see if strip clubs are dying.
Icey
5 years ago
If prices keep increasing, less and less people will go and clubs won't stay in businesses. I'm seeing this at very expensive clubs... they're practically empty a lot of times.
nicespice
5 years ago
Icey’s opinion of expensive clubs:

“if you go and really want your money's worth your best bet is getting bottle service, at around $400 for a bottle of Bombay Sapphire with unlimited mixers”


“Likewise, if you get VIP room dances, pay in cash and save yourself the 15% added fee if you use a credit card. And if you get dances, the two for $60 deal is your best bet. Its weird, say you get the three for $100 deal, you end up paying $200 for six dances, while it comes out to $180 if you stick to the two for $60 deal”

“What I also like is that the girls I've experienced have been pretty chill and a fun distraction.
Friday Evening
Not Provided
$500-$1,000”

😂😂
sinclair
5 years ago
Strip clubs priced themselves out. You have alot of clubs charging $30-$40 for a 3 minute song where it is not even a guarantee you can touch the dancer. Take that $30-40 to Colombia and you get an hour of sex. The $500 that you'd pay for a one hour VIP where you might be able to get a handjob covers your airfare to Bogota.

Similarly, If you go to a football game and they are charging $15 for a cup of beer, you might just wait until after the game is over and walk to a bar where beers are $3.50 or tailgate for a couple of hours after the game where the beers you bought at a liquor store came out to $1 each.

There is a market for a simple teasing lap dance, but there is no value when alot of clubs are charging more than $20 for just a one song tease. Brad's in Indianapolis was insanely popular eight years ago when they had the $10 lap dances, a good value. Then they raised prices and the club is nothing special anymore.

If you don't think the average US strip club is in decline, just look at the recurring common topics on our discussion board: sugar babies, trips to Tijuana brothels, trips to FKK clubs.
twentyfive
5 years ago
The perceived value has generationally changed, I’m sure that someone somewhere is going to innovate some part of the strip club equation and you’ll see a new popularity again, in the mean while just keep an eye on the trends, everything old eventually becomes new again.
datinman
5 years ago
Video killed the radio star.

The traditional "look, but don't touch" strip club is not much of a turn-on in the era of free internet porn, webcams, snapchat, etc., so it is understandable why they would fall by the wayside.

Lap dance clubs are fun initially, but soon the costs out way the value. Especially at $30 & $40 per 3 minute dances.

The clubs that allow a truly interactive experience, in my travels, still seem to be hopping. They are however just a raid or two away from being just another dying club. Get rid of our puritanical laws and the club scene would flourish once again. It may never happen, but 15 years ago I didn't think weed would be legal most places.

RandomMember
5 years ago
I've made the point several times that the sugaring scene has mostly replaced going to strip clubs -- at least for some of us.

Why bother spending several hundred bucks for, at best, sex in some cramped booth, with bouncers hovering around, a time limit, blaring obnoxious music, and paying a good share of the money to support some brick-and-mortar establishment? Why bother? I'd much rather have some hot, responsible, college girl over to my house, turn on the fireplace, and enjoy some unrushed and unprotected sex. Just for the record, I've had an STD just once in my life and that was chlamydia that I picked up from a dancer. All test results since have been clean.

The sugaring scene represents an Uberization of the sex industry and I doubt that strip clubs will ever be the same. Strip clubs are still fun for spur-of-the-moment fun, but otherwise the allure is a thing of the past.
HungryGiraffe
5 years ago
Picking up on Sinclair’s comment about Brad’s being nothing special, and his point about competing prostitution options like SBs, brothels and FKKs, OTC options out of Brad’s are alive and well. And personally, Over the past 3 years, OTC/SB/brothel options have comprised about 75% of my adult entertainment spending.
Papi_Chulo
5 years ago
There are def several headwinds for SCs including the internet - but IMO over the last 10 to 15 years what caused the most damage has been local politicians basically wanting to get rid of them - seems the areas where SCs are allowed to be SCs and pretty-much govern themselves, those areas are doing well if not thriving (there will always be clubs that don't do well but that's competition).

All the pressure local authorities place on a club makes it harder to do business and likely a major contributor as to why prices are getting so high in many clubs - as things stand now it is the local-authorities that can kill off SCs more than anything else (and have in the past).

And as I've posted in the past, in the unlikely case prostitution was to be legalized ,most SCs would probably not be able to compete unless they become unofficial brothels like HK.
Icey
5 years ago
NiceSPice, thanks for stalking me.... that's not what I meant in this thread. What I meant is the way basic cover charges are going up, not necessarily premium services. I can get bottle service for $250 at a nice strip club.... That's worth it. But paying $60 for a cover charge, $30 per drink and $40 lap dances isn't a good value...That will detract a lot of people. I saw it recently, cover charge was $75 on a holiday, went up to $200 later in the night, no one came in once that happened. Club closed early....
gSteph
5 years ago
>>Is the American strip club dying out?<<

God, I hope not, I just got here. "Here" being the last 2.5 years - and knowing of lap dances. I went a bit in the eighties, nineties, for stage watching/tipping, and it was very different, crowds were more common.

But reading reviews and others' opinions here, it is clear times have changed. And I'm amazed at the number of reviews I read (in lots of places) where air dancing and minimal touching are the local standard.

I'm lucky though, that my local clubs have all the mileage that I, a non-extras seeker (no sex, or pussy petting), could want. At $20 per dance.
san_jose_guy
5 years ago
For decades groups of guys would come from Lockheed to the Sunnyvale Brass Rail at lunch time. That was the major weekday day time business for the place. Girls got all their money for the day then.

But, the Brass Rail was only bikini and no private dances or dance booths, no touching.

Otherwise I don't think the guys would go there.

Lunch was good there.

But now it is gone.

DejaVu says the industry is dying.

This might be because of hardening attitudes about alcohol. But it may also be because of the newer types of mileage clubs, which make locals try to run them out.

We had a dancer in Portland who would post about making next to no money at her club. Sounded like the mileage was unlimited and very economical. She said that most all of the custies wanted nothing more than free groping.

They served food, and so I think no cover. I think that food concession was the problem, the food making money, but the dancers being expected to donate their time. Usually just one girl at a time during weekday day time. I told here that the no cover was the problem, destroyed the environment, all those free groping people.

I think the work day related strip club has its days numbered. And mostly those will be alcohol places, so that works against them too.

The no alcohol mileage places, still could be good.

And then the membership clubs, max mileage, I think that still growing.

SJG
wiffle shwaffle
5 years ago
Fuck I was just going to post it, too.

Here is the link btw:

bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48667681?fb…
mjx01
5 years ago
disposable income never recovered after the great recession
Countryman5434
5 years ago
Yes and who cares
san_jose_guy
5 years ago
"disposable income never recovered after the great recession"

Very good point!

SJG
san_jose_guy
5 years ago
In NOLO strippers did protest to be able to work.

In Sunnyvale CA, very tame clubs, dancers have gone to City Council meetings to speak up for themselves.

And then in San Francisco they have or had, Erotic Dancer's Alliance.

SJG
Icey
5 years ago
mjx01
Aspiring Global Hound
July 6, 2019
disposable income never recovered after the great recession

Nothing has really recovered.... those good paying jobs never came back. Prices keep going up, wages are stagnant. This is affecting the real economy more than anything.
san_jose_guy
5 years ago
^^^^^ Each of these boom and bust cycles makes us worse off, rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, good jobs with unions and benefits, getting replaced with shit jobs.

Hard to stop a bust once it starts, but it is caused by the boom. So while we cannot directly stop the busts, we can refuse to feed the booms.

What will restore the situation, is return to Keynesianism, and updated for today. Higher progressive taxation, and then Universal Basic Income.

SJG
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