discussion comment
17 years ago
I like the way Doug's index worked out. But I wish Bones would slow down.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Ok, forget about the "hidden dance". My dad was a psychologist. But, as we all know, communication is a two way thing, with both the low road and the high road fully engaged.
As for attachment, I think Doug nailed it.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I think many dancers have fragile egos. Many have backgrounds of abuse and neglect. They are keeping up a front under normal (clothed) circumstances, and then they have to take off their clothes. My ATF works in a Phoenix club, makes enough money in a few hours to cover her miscellaneous spending for a week, and experiences the wild swings in business that is inherent in every strip club. She has been doing this for a while. Nevertheless, some days she will go for a 30 or 45 minute dry spell, and at the end of that she will feel really dejected. I counsel her to take the long term view. But another common feature of strippers is their remarkably short term thinking.
And then there is the rest of us. I write proposals to clients and I really believe we can do a great job for them. They often say no, and select some firm I think is not our equal. I ALWAYS feel dejected when that happens. Then I go over 2 cubicles, whine a bit to my friend, and move on. Such is life.
discussion comment
17 years ago
The "hidden dance" I referred to is the dance of non-verbal communication that goes on between two people. It's not about hormones. Our brains have very active areas that mediate our social and interpesonal behaviors. We do communicate even with our mouths closed, mainly through very subtle facial expressions and body posture. We can read and process these signals from other people and respond, all in less than a second, and before our brain has the chance to form words. We encounter a girls in a club, get a chance to look her in the face at close range, and before we think "Hey, she's attractive". we are attracted and we send her our sign of approval, and she reacts to that. Then our frontal lobe gets in gear, and we open our mouth and speak (and things usually get f**cked up from there on out!).
For the exceptionally nerdy and patient, read "Social Intelligence" by Daniel Goleman. It will make you think differently about communication between two people.
discussion comment
17 years ago
One possible reason. She spends every f**cking dollar she earns as soon as she can, and she is chronically strapped for cash. She just wants to make a cash flow projection.
discussion comment
17 years ago
There are so many ways to answer this question FONDL, and I would guess the answers would depend on our own differences as well.
For me, I think a part of it is that attachment comes from two people opening themselves up and being vulnerable to one another. I think of many dancers as being quite vulnerable, but often with elaborate defenses. When they let their guard down, that is a welcome sign for us. They will only do that if we reciprocate. And so, the hidden dance begins, and sometimes it achieves some beautiful synchrony, yes?
discussion comment
17 years ago
Of course, another way for us to judge to worthiness of reviews is to have some way to judge the worthiness of the reviewers. Founder, you know how ebay does it. There is probably a simpler way here that would involve only a few more tables and a little more code... ;-)
We could start by assigning Bones a big gold star. His reviews are factual and numerous to say the least!
discussion comment
17 years ago
whghlost, I just read this rather long thread, and I feel for your anguish, but also think you have lost perspective. I am sure many of the guys here have been emotionally involved with strippers. They have a ton of time in clubs. Like them, I have learned a great deal about the business, the types of girls that work at strip clubs, and how our fantasies and loneliness can lead us into self defeating behavior patterns and at times delusional thinking.
One of the hallmarks of emotional intelligence is the ability to have empathy and concern for another person, and to see the world through their eyes. I think others on this thread have made the case for your favorite, and I agree with them. Your favorite girl sees things differently than you, and most likely, not just about that particular night, but about the nature of your relationship and its propsects for the future. It does not matter that you saw her so frequently for 6 months. You believed you were building up to one thing, and she was building up to something quite different, perhaps nothing except a steadier income. Unfortunately, you freaked her out, without intending to. But that night was not the reason, it was only the final straw, the trigger.
I speak from hard won experience. You will know the difference between a stripper that appreciates your business, is friendly, and encourages you to keep spending money to be with her, and a stripper that really likes you and wants to have a complete relationship with you. The main difference is that she will want to spend some time, maybe a lot of time, with you outside of the club doing casual and mundane things that do not involve giving her $100 or $200 a day. If you do not have that complete relationship, than you are just a customer. She will keep you at some emotional distance to protect her own fragile self, and if you press too hard, she will get away from you as fast as she can, using others to shield her.
As the others have advised, give her up. Next time, go much, much easier.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Ah Bones, I don't think I can make Columbia, but I'm sure some of the other guys would like to see you strut your stuff.
discussion comment
17 years ago
The damn busines is like a roller coaster, for the guys and girls. A few posts back, a guy asked if we ever feel invisible. Now someone wants to know if we ever feel like chum in a school of sharks. Yes, and yes, and which night are we talking about anyway? ;-)
I once brought some food back to the club for a girl. It was lamb chops with mint jelly from apretty nice restaurant. SHe's at the bar, just wolfing it down, and the bartender (an ex stripper) walks over and asks about the food. I tell her what it is, where I got it, etc. Then I say, "Yeah, those lamb chops are pretty rich. She only likes rich meat." Chuckles all around! Seems about 6 or so girls were listening in, and they all agreed, they too like rich meat.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Ok, let's pick out the information that might give us some clues. These are quotes from the article with my "caustic" commentary:
1) "kids from dysfunctional homes" - no surprise there
2) "thrown willy nilly into ...the sex trade" - not sure how she got thrown in; never told by a stripper she was forced or coerced into it.
3) "stepfather physically abused her" - yeah, that's is a common theme; now we're starting to get somewhere, it was meth-head stepdad
4) "began dancing at a strip club...on a dare...several months ago" - most likely the dare was from another girl; and several months is not exactly a descent into hell
5) "you have to be practically anorexic" - the owner wanted slim girls, that prick!;actually, plenty of clubs with heavy girls, even in Vegas
6) "I asked if she'd ever been tempted to give in..." - and her answer was "No", so what the f**k are we talking about here; seems like she set her own personal limits.
7) "I just feel if I get married the guy will change and show his true colors" - can't blame her for that attitude after the bad time with mom and step dad.
So what does this add up to? Girl runs away from crappy family life, discovers she can make easy money, doesn't trust guys, nows wants a better life. Call or write your congressman today!
discussion comment
17 years ago
Scott, you have to be member of Times Select to read that article. Can you summarize it for us?
discussion comment
17 years ago
Forgot one other thing. My ex wife probably would have recoiled in horror had I ever suggested we go to a club. She had a bunch of preconceived notions that served her just fine. I, on the other hand, had an itch that needed some scratching.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I had an ATF who I socialized OTC with alot. One night we wnet to another club and just hung out. At one point, we are sitting in chairs next to each other, and she is getting a lap dance. She has her free hand in my lap, and she is obviously enjoying the dance. Then she turns her head to me, gives me this sly smile, and gently squeezes my unit. It was one of those electric moments not easily forgotten.
By the way, me and my current ATF (and live-in sweetie) go to clubs all the time. My girlfriend is not bisexual, and unlike me she likes the girls with big fake knockers. She just likes it when they rub her with their breasts. I don't mind it either.
discussion comment
17 years ago
That Christies stairs and stage layout must be standard for them. The Christies in Phoenix is like that. So is Le Girls West in Phoenix, which until recently was The Penthouse Club. I think now it is mostly an upscale club feature. It allows them to make a big deal out of the cattle call (all girls parade).
discussion comment
17 years ago
For a while at Bandaids in Phoenix I was like the designated driver. Then I realized that I was being used. But being used by hot chicks is not so bad.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Went to a club in Buenos Aires. Our host took us there. At first I thought it was a strip club, but after about 15 min I figured it out. Lots of attractive girls. Going rate was $100 US to take them back to your hotel.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Yeah Bones, but your ass would look so cute. Who knows, might attract the ladies.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I'm a Phoenix local and have visited most of the clubs in town. Here's the rundown:
1) Don't expect super mileage; Phoenix passed a law 2 years ago that moderated the clubs somewhat. Average mileage at topless clubs is nice moderate one way contact, with very limited touching by the guy. Standard price is $10 per lap dance at your table.
2) Much lower mileage at all nude clubs. Standard price is $20.
3) No extra mileage in VIPs.
4) In general, no extras available.
5) Clubs in Scottsdale are high quality girls, but low mileage. Clubs south of the airport on University are terrible.
6) My personal favorite club is the Hiliter (12th St, just south of Camelback). Not too upscale, but clean and comfortable. Girl quality good to excellent. Better than average mileage. Tip the bouncer who shows you to a seat ($2) and you wont be bothered unless you get way out of line. If you are alone, get a seat along the wall. You will get more attention and many of the dancers prefer those seats.
7) Other guys prefer Christies Cabaret (there are 2 Christies locations; I think the one in Phoenix on 32nd St. is better). But, too upscale and pretentious for my tastes, and the DJ is overbearing.
8) Bombshells Cabaret at 44th St and Thomas is a nice small club.
9) Bourbon St is ok, but has reputation for "stuck up attitude"
10) My favorite skanky place is Bandaids on 7th St. A safe place despite appearances. Quality of girls highly variable. But nice hole in the wall bar feel.
Let us know how it goes. Post some reviews!
discussion comment
17 years ago
I have a pair of English shoes (Clarks walking shoes, brown leather). I paid $125 for them, have worn them most days for 3 years, and they just wont wear out. The English should make dancer's shoes. They might be worth the higher price. Of course, they would look like army boots. Might go well with a stripper's camo bikin.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Well, Quebec and Mexico for sure (ok, not the US, but close. Unlike some beauty pageant contestants, I know my geography).
Portland Oregon area. For example, Stars in Beaverton (nice name for that town!). Good looking girls. Mileage is ok, mild one-way, so not quite the trifecta.
I think Anchorage, Alaska allows alcohol in nude clubs. Reviews show mileage is low.
Some BYOB clubs. For example, Rubys II in Bridgeport, CT. And XTC in Austin TX. Good lap dances.
And then there are these strange "dual" clubs, with an alcohol side and a nude side. Like XTC (yeah, another unique name!) in Akron, OH. Also, Great Alaskan Bush Company in Phoenix. You drink and chat on one side (topless), then stuble over and get nude laps on the other side.
On the philosophical side, I will gladly trade-off either alcohol or a view of the kitty for the promise of high mileage.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I have helped my ATF buy several pairs of shoes. She is very picky, as she is looking for comfort, and many of the shoes are painful. The typical price is $50 to $75, and while they look ok when new, they are cheaply made and tend to fall apart. I am the designated repairman. Thank God for 5 minute epoxy.
discussion comment
17 years ago
It was around 1991. I was on a business trip to Orlando, and we had a few hours to kill before our flight out. Our host took us to The Dollhouse. After a while, a girl came by and asked if she could sit with me. I said "Sure!". Then I leaned over to our host and asked, "What does she want?". He gave me a 30 second lecture, and 2 minutes later I was getting my first lap dance. A definite improvement over magazines.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I believe the original glory holes were in gay clubs (pre AIDS epidemic). So it has some really bad conotations for me. In other words, "Hell No!"
discussion comment
17 years ago
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motorheadFat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
My ATF says "in the day", which I have learned means about 7 to 10 years ago. Her day and my day are different.
Lots of strange words from the Hip Hop crowd. How about "crunk", which means drunk. And the strange gibberish that comes from Snoop Dogg, like "the shiznit", which means "the shit", which means an awesome person. As in, "that dancer is the shiznit!"
Set the way-back machine to June 1965. remember groovy, trippy, far out, out of sight, mind blowing, etc? My parents and their friends were similarly confused.