I have been seeing a dancer over 6 months now. On labor weekend Sunday night, I went to a club and saw my favorite dancer there. Although, she usually don't work sunday nites. I always go there Sunday nites. She told me that she was meeting a guy there. He left after 3 hours. I waited for her. She came to me and we spoke for 1 hour and then went to VIP for an hour. I did not had to work next day (labor day). So, I told her if by chance I could get couple more dances on the main floor. She said that another customer was waitng for her. So, I told her, if chance they are not, may a couple dance would be nice. She was too busy. Later she said that she was leaving and i hugged her good nite. I thought she was going to stay in the dressing room till club closes. I decided to leave since the club was too crowded and wanted to beat the crowd when it does closes. So, I walked out toward my car. As I got to my car, I looked ahead and saw my favorite dancer got into her car. I got into mine and drove, but she left the parking lot before I did. She took the same access road that I would normally take to go home. That access road would take us to the expressway toward an interstate. I changed lane to the left and she stayed on the lane she was on. I sped up and I honked once to signal good nite. I don't know if there was another car or not. It was dark out there at 250 am. I took the east exit on the interstated as she took the west exit onto the interstated. So, we are heading in the opposite direction. I came back to the club on Wed and was told to leave. They told me that my favorite dancer was not comfortable with me about what happened outside the club. I was at lost and remembered that I honked at her. I left my business card onto her car and said that I am sorry about honking at her and i was kidding. I was hoping that she would call. I went home and called the club to find out why by asking for the manager. He would only take a message and would call when he was not busy. My emotions were shocked and had to find out. So, I ask if possible if I could speak with my favorite dancer. The host gave me the dressing room number. So, I called that and a dancer told me that she is not here twice. Then I tried later and the call was forward to the manager. Finally, I had a chance to speak with him. He listened but was not understanding and rushed to judgment. I got even more frustrated. I called a couple times more out of frustration. So, I decided to speak with the owner the next day. I end up of speaking to day time manager and he was so understanding and he agreed with me that I did not follow her. I came to the club to enjoy the day time girls. I like the night time girls better. Later I saw both day manager and owner. I spoke to the owner first and told me what I had told the manager. They would seem to understand. I called the next day following. I spoke with the day manager. He told me that he and owner spoke with the nite manager. Day manager was upset b/c I left out the phone calls I made Wed nite and plus leaving my business card onto the dancer's car. So, he now thinks that I was following her. But that is not the truth. I called back later that night and spoke with the night manager and apologized for the phone calls. He said that he notice that I frequent the club. However, he mentioned thst she works 5 nites a week and if she is not comfortable, they cannot do anything. So, he said that he will speak with her again and the owner on Tuesday. So, he told me to call back that night.
So, my favorite dancer and I have been seeing weekly for over 6 months, why did she not speak with me first? Will she let me come back? I sure hope so. I do miss her. So what rights do customers have? I know she is mistaken. I did not follow her. Why can't the club let me come to the club and enjoy other dancers. She does not have to see me anymore. Right? They can give me a curfew. They can say that I have to leave an hour before she leaves. Or like most club, they would not let girls go home early. They would wait till all cars were gone, before letting the girls go home. I hope she let me in. I so want her to hear me out.
You probably need to take a couple of huge steps back and get away from her for awhile. Your obsessiveness in the post is creeping me out so I can only imagine what the dancer feels.
I thought she probably freaked out a bit when she heard someone honking at her late at night thinking someone might be stalking her. Trying to get back in contact that much seems to be like that. It might freak her out a little bit more, maybe or maybe not but since it doesn't seem like you have her phone number or personal information and she's trying to avoid you, you might try to leave a note on her vehicle just saying "I'm sorry. I didn't mean to frighten you but just happened to spot you on the highway the other night. I wasn't following you. Since you're obviously afraid of me now, I won't bother you anymore." It might be better to leave a note with the manager and then ignore her unless she comes over to talk to you. Just try to forget about her. If you can't, I suggest finding a different club. Just my opinion.
Legally speaking your customer "rights" in the situaton you describe are zero. Vendors offering personal services to the public have the rights to withhold or withdraw service (in this case for good faith cause) from certain patrons unless they are doing so in an unconstitutionally violative manner such as witholding services due to (among other things) factors such as race, national origin, or in some cases gender.
In practical terms you sound like a very good customer, and clubs want business and dancers want dependable regulars, (especially VIP one hour types) so instead of phone calls write a letter to the club similar to the one above explaining what occured, and odds are (I believe) they will eventually let you back in, but you won't have any guarantee. However you have to understand your "rights" in fact are zero, as even a personal service contract (which this is not) cannot as a general rule be enforced anyways against the provider of the services -so don't bother with a lawyer or threatening them, it will only hurt your cause
(By the way I happen to be (among other things) be an admitted bar member for many years - but I don't practice, however there's some practicing lawyers in here that will probably tell you the same thing)
Thanks for the feedbacks. Never thought I would get the kind of feedback before. I told my story as factual as possible. Guess, different people will interpret it differently. I read the definition of stalking. It is a repeated following via unwanted notes or communications or actual following. I did none of these things. She is a dancer at a club. I gave her a repeated business. She has always had the option to say no. We had done over 30 vips. That Sunday nite was just a misunderstanding. She thought I was following her, but I was not. However, she tought I did and that is what mattered. As far as writing a letter and giving it to the manager sound like a good idea. I am NOT taking any legal actions. I just want to be able to go to the club and enjoy other dancers. I don't want a mistake in thinking that I was following her prevent me from going to this club. She is wrong. I did not follow her, but they are taking her side. It is her word versus mine. However, if she could hear me out, I think she will change her mind. So, why can't the club tell her that I can come to the club but she does not have to provide me a service?
Question for everyone. If someone accused you of something you know that you did not, would you not want to know why? For example, you go to your favorite book store or ice cream shop. An employee there though you stole an item and told her manager. Her manager told you that you had to leave. You know that you have not stole anything. In this case you can prove that you did not stole by asking them to check security video. What bothered me about my case is that I know I did not follow her, yet I am getting punished for it. It would be different if I was guilty. So, I am hoping that my favorite dancer would change her mind. I hope the manager give some justice to what I had said and she understands it well. I think I could tell it better.
Well, this may be an interesting point. Most clubs would not let their dancers leave early unless it was an emergency. So, if my favorite dancer was prevented from leaving early, that Sunday night would never happen. She would not make the mistake to think that I was following her. I would have been gone well before she would leave the club. So, why did the club let her go home early? Anyways, it is a good point, I think.
It's too bad that you can't get them to appreciate your side of the story. However, what matters in a case like this isn't just the facts, it's the appearance of things. By pressing your case so obsessively and showing so much frustration, you aren't helping to dispel the appearance of being, if not a stalker, an upsetting nuisance. You don't seem to have much appreciation for the impression you're making. Sorry to say so, but I can't blame the managers for seeing her side of the story.
Furthermore, a fact of life is that when one side breaks off a relationship, the other side doesn't always get a fair explanation. It might not seem fair, but it's the way the cookie crumbles.
That is it! I don't know her side of the story! I just got the general idea that she thought that I followed her. I hope they tell her more than that I said I did not follow her. I hope they tell her the whole thing in detail. The most I got from the manager at night was that I sped up to her. That's it. If I wanted to follow her, I would not sped up. Secondly, I would not honk my horn, either. I would like to know her entire story. Plus, if she heard my entire story, then I would feel better if she does not want to see me still. However, I think I should be allowed to see other dancers in the club at night. I did not pressed my case to managers repeatedly. Last time I spoke to them was 5 days ago.
WhghLost:
I can sympathize with the frustrations that you are feeling, but I also have to side with the majority of the responses. Even though I believe you were not stalking, without intending to, you did give the appearance that you were.
Please forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I also get the impression that perhaps you are from a different country and that there may be a language barrier that has played a role in all of this. It's quite possible that maybe something said was misunderstood due to a difference in language and / or customs.
You have to be cognizant of the dancer's perspective. Maybe she was already feeling that you were putting too much pressure on her for dances at the club before she left. Then upon leaving the club she finds your card on her car (she might've gotten even more nervous to find out that you somehow knew which car was hers). To see you driving next to her and honking - at 2:50am, no less, on a presumably dark and deserted highway... I think that would've made >>ME<< feel uneasy if I'd been in her place.
You also have to keep in mind that dancers are constantly hit on, and more often than you would think, they are stalked and followed on the road. My ATF has told me that she's had a guy follow her all the way to her house (over an hour away). With news of coeds disappearing and bodies being found, you sure cannot blame a girl to be cautious. (actually I was going to say OVERLY cautious, but I don't think that's possible... they should be VERY cautious and diligent in watching out for potentially dangerous situations).
Sooo... like others above have said, my (our) best advice is for you to back off. Forget it. Drop it. Move on. Let things calm down while you visit OTHER clubs. I'm sure word has spread around the club and I would think ALL of the girls there are probably feeling a bit threatened by you, as well, so it's best to avoid going to that club.
Maybe in a month or two - or three - you might test the waters at the same club again. By all means, do not approach your fav dancer unless she first approaches you. In fact, don't even make eye contact. She will probably eventually come around and MAYBE things can be repaired between the two of you.
WhghLost:
I went back and read your review of the club in question. First, let me apologize for thinking that you were from another country. I got the impression that you were from your post, which read to me like a foreigner was typing due to a few typos and grammar things. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not giving you a hard time about that, I just wanted to explain myself.
After reading your review, which incidentally was quite lucid and free of those typos and grammar issues, I see that you are not from a foreign country. My guess is that when you posted this message thread, you were probably typing quite fast and trying to verbalize all of the turmoil that was swirling in your head over this incident. I have done that myself in emails and postings on this board... I get so into my thoughts and typing so quickly that my fingers don't always convey the ideas that seemed so clear in my mind.
I don't go where I'm not wanted. If any service establishment or provider, strip club or otherwise, ever makes me feel unwelcome, I'm no longer their customer. Whghlost, I suggest you do the same. It's time to move on. Nothing good can come from you pursuing this. It makes no difference what the circumstances are or if you've been misunderstood, that's irrelevant. It's over. Find another club. And in the future, don't ever wait 3 hours or even half that for a dancer to be free, that alone is likely to freak them out. If the girl you want to see is busy, find another girl.
I think the best thing is to stay away from the club. Let a few months pass. Even if the management allow you back into the club the girls there are not going to want to have anything to do with you because they all think you are a stalker now.
Let the issue die. Go back in a few months. But stay away from that girl. Have nothing to do with her.
I sure got more responses than I thought I would. I did not put my business card that night when I was accused of following her. It was Wedn when I was asked to leave. You question my grammar and yet you don't read it well. She may have been irritated because she already spent an hour with me in the vip plus the night before. Like I also said, she normally does not work on Sundays. She was there by chance and I always go on Sundays. Plus, my favorite has told me that she does not mind me coming often, but she does agree it is a little too frequent. So, I am welcome, but since she thinks that I was following her, she does not want my company. That is why I am trying to have her hear me out. However, it is at the stage, where I have to communicate through management. So, I am waiting patiently as possible. I have gone to other clubs since I was rejected. However, I would like to go back to this one. Like I mentioned before, I have seen her over 6 months now. We are comfortable with each other. This is just a misunderstanding. Only time and hopefully someone tells her like I would. Or may not. It was fun, while it lasted. All I can do now is hope.
You're starting to creep me out! If you are going to have any chance of going back to that club, you should stop all contact, whether by phone or in person for at least 6 months.
Give it a try next spring, maybe some fresh dancers will be there.
There is nothing wrong being cautious and being careful. However, I have been seeing her over 6 months on weekly basis. I guess even so, this may not be enough for her to be safe around me. I do feel bad that I gave her the appearance, however, I was going home. Perhaps, I should have not honked my horn. Or may be, I should have stayed at the parking lot and give her 10 minutes to leave. But, I was not sure that she was going my way. Till it was too late! Plus, I was already filled with joy I had with her and I did not realize that she was in bad spirit. In other words, I was not smart enough to know to stay my distance. I realize now that I should have stayed in the parking lot. But, too stress again, for a millionth time, I did not follow her home. I was going home and she happens to take the same path, except she goes west on the interstate and I go east on the interstate. So, please forgive, if I gave the impression. It was not done on purpose. It was just bad timing and maybe divine. I don't know. I just hope that she can forgive and hope for a second chance.
Minnow, many of us who happen to be lawyers (i.e. admitted in one or more jurisdictions in the U.S.) also have other experience, other graduate degrees, and sometimes work in professions that (in certain cases) can be far more lucrative than typical legal work.
Whghlost, are you kidding us? When you say that you are comfortable with each other you are deluding yourself. She clearly isn't comfortable with you. It's over with her. You're scaring the shit out of this girl. If you care at all about her, move on. Forget about the details, they don't matter. Time to cut your losses and start over somewhere else.
Dude you became too emotionally involved with this girl. She only saw you as being a customer & nothing more. Most women would get scared of a guy pulling up beside them at night that they didn't really know(Again your just a customer not a true friend).
She isn't worth all the headache you are putting yourself through. You shouldn't even chase after an Ex-Girlfriend like that, so why chase after some stripper in a stripclub.
Whghlost: I can see from your club reviews that you are a fellow Atlantan. I thought that I recognized your nick name. I am guessing that the dancer in question works at the Oasis. I did not like the way she treated you ITC. That would have been enough to turn me off. I gotta agree with the others. Back off she is not worth it. Join trogangreg and me at the Crazy Horse Saloon sometime.
minnow: david9999 is correct. Several years ago I knew an attorney that was also and air line pilot.
whghlost--Surely you can appreciate that there is a clear preponderance of opinion in the replies you've collected from a wide variety of commenters. You've gotten some good advice here, especially from pushin50 and FONDL. Leave her alone. You may split hairs to convince yourself it's not "stalking," but the kind of behavior you're describing is the reason restraining orders exist. If she seeks one--which she certainly could under the circumstances--it will become illegal for you to come anywhere near her. You want her to hear you out. She's made it abundantly clear that she doesen't want to. She doesen't have to. Leave her alone and try to appreciate your behavior patterns--my guess is this isn't an aberrant pattern for you but is rather one that you are prone to finding yourself in. It's not a healthy pattern.
Wow, comes to my mind. Well, it is forum full of guys who enjoy naked girls. The question is that, was the girl frightened by the appearance of me following her or is she using this to send me a message. I was just sharing my frustration to you guys. You guys have favorite dancers, too. Some of you see them on a regular basis. Am I wrong? Plus, another question is how many of you guys believe my account of the event. If you believe me, then I should not come off as a stalker or whatever. True, I have become emotionally involved with this girl. I have seen her once a week for 6 months now. Lately, it has increased twice a week. However, I was to leave because she thought I was following her. Not because I am seeing her too frequent. I have not bothered her. Why are you guys making it sound like as if I am chasing her or whatever. Perhaps, this is not he best place to start a discussion. My bad. Guess, none of you got emotionally involved with your favorite dancer.
whghlost, I just read this rather long thread, and I feel for your anguish, but also think you have lost perspective. I am sure many of the guys here have been emotionally involved with strippers. They have a ton of time in clubs. Like them, I have learned a great deal about the business, the types of girls that work at strip clubs, and how our fantasies and loneliness can lead us into self defeating behavior patterns and at times delusional thinking.
One of the hallmarks of emotional intelligence is the ability to have empathy and concern for another person, and to see the world through their eyes. I think others on this thread have made the case for your favorite, and I agree with them. Your favorite girl sees things differently than you, and most likely, not just about that particular night, but about the nature of your relationship and its propsects for the future. It does not matter that you saw her so frequently for 6 months. You believed you were building up to one thing, and she was building up to something quite different, perhaps nothing except a steadier income. Unfortunately, you freaked her out, without intending to. But that night was not the reason, it was only the final straw, the trigger.
I speak from hard won experience. You will know the difference between a stripper that appreciates your business, is friendly, and encourages you to keep spending money to be with her, and a stripper that really likes you and wants to have a complete relationship with you. The main difference is that she will want to spend some time, maybe a lot of time, with you outside of the club doing casual and mundane things that do not involve giving her $100 or $200 a day. If you do not have that complete relationship, than you are just a customer. She will keep you at some emotional distance to protect her own fragile self, and if you press too hard, she will get away from you as fast as she can, using others to shield her.
As the others have advised, give her up. Next time, go much, much easier.
If I don't have a dancers phone number, name, and address or a place to meet up with her, I don't ever try to meet up with a dancer outside of a club. Anything else just seems like stalking unless it's something like you're sitting in a bar and happen to see her when she walks in the door and she comes over to talk to you.
I remember one night this one guy was following people in his car while I encountered two other drivers just driving around the speed limit but apparently wanting to lose this one guy following them. They actually did the unusual move to slow down to a slow speed of 45 mph late at night to lose this guy when I started to approach. This guy sped up and followed me then. I thought it was a bit freaky to have this guy following me. I was wondering if he was drunk or on drugs. You just don't know when someone follows you. He followed me sometimes immediately behind my car or driving beside it. I slowed down below the speed limit and noticed another car finally approaching from behind. I let that car speed around. The weird driver immediately followed the faster car. From my perspective, it seemed like a weird stalker, people do not like being followed or harassed. All I could think was good riddance. I think it might be a good idea to avoid the club for 6 months just to let other dancers know you're not a stalker.
I've seen a number of dancers in the club every week for a long time. I may even have their name and phone number. I usually let them contact me or would suggest things to them in person. I'd never dream of talking to management or scaring her late at night on the highway. One dancer I know whom I did have her real name and phone number didn't want to give me her address to meet up. She was playing a game with me apparently. I just thought ok, I won't even ask to go out with her anymore even though she kept suggesting it. End of story, I don't want to go out with her now if she asked me to.
It looks like all our well-intentioned advice is lost on W. I don't think he really cares to benefit from any of it - only to take exception to our comments. He shows no acknowledgment of responsibility for the impression he has made either here on this board or in the club. He appears to only be interested in our agreeing that he's had a raw deal and deserves to have it all forgiven and forgotten. I'd like to agree with that, only I'm sure he'll keep finding himself in the same predicament unless he tries to learn from the experience.
I forgot to add I won't call her either. She still made a coment to me saying I could stay in touch. Kind of irritated me when I heard that but I still will get dances from her. Let the dancers want to contact you not the other way around. If you sense resistance, back off and get away from her. She doesn't want you in any personal relationship.
Whghlost, Please realize your behavior is more than a little suspect. This poor girl is afraid of you. She is not "comfortable" with your "relationship". The fact that you are in complete denial about this leads me to believe that you will soon be commiting a crime if you do not get help.
The best thing you can do is make sure you tighten your aluminum foil hat real good, learn the web address of the local sex-offender database (so you will be able to sign up), put on some pants and sit and wait for the cops to come and arrest you. Nut Job.
Harrydave is the best response I gotten. I never had the attention of wanting a relationship with a dancer. I just want to have fun. She is wonderful and awesome. I might have a crush on her, but it is never about control either. Some of you sound like that you are saying that the girl should not control you. Can this all simply be a big misunderstanding? I like to provide her a steady income by seeing her at the club. I don't want to see her outside the club, unless she wants to do so. She knows more personal information about me, then I know of her. Why would I give her my phone number, work address, and work number. I have no clue as far as personal info. I just wanna dances and attention from her at the club only. The one event on Sunday was a big confusion. I do understand how she might feel. It would have nice for her to stay that she is getting the impression that I am becoming a little emotionally involved. I would then say, you are right. I will see you in 2 weeks. I don't know. Time will heal wounds. I don't know. A few of you do have some harsh opinion of me. Casualguy sound creepy to me. Some of you guys are seeking sex at the club. Not me. I just want a good lapdance and personal attention.
Well, I have learned a few things here. One, never give false impression. I should have given her time to leave, because you never know if she is going in the same direction as you are. Plus, I learned that if I am starting to feel emotionally for a girl, I should stop seeing her for a few weeks. If I had stayed in the club till closing, the event would not happen. IF I had stayed in the parking lot and give her chance to leave, then I would not give her the false impression. I do realize that I did give her the impression that I was following her, but I was not following her at all. So, I hope she would give me a seocnd chance, though. You guys know I do like this girl a lot. I would never never try to scare her or make her uncomfortable. I have learned my lesson on how I might have scared her unintentionally. I know now that I need to give her space. How much is up to her. So, she may tell them that I could come back in 2 weeks or much later or never. I am hoping sooner.
Not that I enjoy beating the dead horse here, but I did want to take one last stab (geesh, with my word selection there, >>I'M<< starting to creep myself out!).
Whghlost:
I'm glad to see from your last posts that it sounds like you now see the point that we were trying to make. I never said, nor do I think anyone else here suggested that we didn't believe your account of what happened on that Sunday night. I certainly believe it happened as you said it happened; heck, it sounds like MY kind of luck. Most of us agreed that we never thought you were stalking this girl, we were all just pointing out that we could understand how she might feel like she was being stalked.
I also wanted to tell you that I DO understand how you feel, and I know from personal experience, how easily one can form feelings for dancer. (if you've read many of my posts, you will know that I can truthfully say that) Yes, I have my favorite dancers; usually just one that I see on a regular basis and spend a lot of time with as often as possible. Even with her, I am cautious.
Very early on in our "relationship", there was a similar instance where we left the club together (I had walked her to her vehicle - only after asking for her permission to do so), and we both left the parking lot at the same time. We both headed down the same road in the same direction; she was in front. I was very careful to leave plenty of room between our vehicles and to not follow closely. In the back of my mind I worried that she might get the wrong impression of the coincidental driving route. Since it was after 3am and no one else was on the road, it would've been very obvious to her that it was me driving behind her. I was feeling a little uncomfortable because I didn't want to startle her or anything, so I fell further back and was relieved when she finally took her exit. Yes, it was very tempting to catch up to her and honk, wave, flash my lights, etc., but I was careful not to give her any wrong ideas. Had it been just another guy that I'd had some beers with, I might've done one or more of those things... but not with a girl, who would most likely interpret the situation much differently.
Speaking of comfort levels, I wanted to relate this anecdotal incident that demonstrates how you can never assume that a dancer (or anyone) trusts you. After months of spending time with my ATF (the dancer that I've been talking about) ITC (inside the club), I started having an emotional connection with her. I wanted to spend more time with her, preferably OTC, so that we could get to know each other better.
I thought she surely trusted me because we had gotten to know quite a bit about each other. I was always respectful of her. I never tried to press her limits during dances; I never even touched her breasts until she finally placed my hands on them. Without putting any pressure on her, I started suggesting that we go out to eat or something. She was against it. Even though we apparently shared this connection, she still didn't know if she could trust me or not. How could she ever know what I was really like? Even Ted Bundy was clean cut, good looking and very charming, but look at what he was doing?
Finally, she gave in a little and agreed to meet me OTC. We met at a predesignated restaurant and had a great time talking over lunch. She seemed to finally trust me. When I asked her to spend the rest of the afternoon with me, she agreed only after I assured her that my intentions were pure and that I didn't have any false expectations. She told me that she had to return to her vehicle for a few minutes before she could leave. She sat in her vehicle for about 5 min doing something, then she got out, locked it up and crawled into mine and we continued on our merry way.
Later - several MONTHS later - she confessed something to me that I found shocking, and a bit humorous. She told me that when she'd gone to her vehicle before we left, there was something that she had to do. She said at that point in time she was "fairly sure" that I could be trusted, and that I was who I said I was, etc., but just in case, she had left something on the seat of her vehicle.
She'd left a note that said that she had left at [xxxx] date/time, with [my name], that I had [xxxxx] colored hair, was [height and weight], that I was driving a [color, and vehicle model], I was from [city], my cell number was [999-9999], I worked at [employer], my wife and kids names are [xxxxx]. Lastly, my business card was placed on the note. Basically, she had left enough information about me to make sure that if she turned up missing, there was no doubt who was responsible for it. Pretty smart! (also proof of how much she trusted me, and how much she trusted her own intuition)
Whghlost - From reading all of your threads in this topic, I highly recommend that you cease and desist any further contact with this lady. Or else, you will be put on a restraining order, or picked up and charged for "stalking".
Whghlost it is going to take you more than a couple of weeks to get over this girl. You might not have came to the club looking for a girlfriend, but since you have developed "feelings" for this girl suggest that you wouldn't mind her being your girl. If she really thought of you as a friend she would have at least spoke with you about the incident, maybe not in person but by phone. A person shouldn't leave a friend "hanging" as to why they reacted a certain way. Things don't always work out the way we want it. I wouldn't even worry about how long I will be away from the club. I would focus more on finding another club as a hangout. You may feel like dropping back in during the future or perhaps you may like your new club or hobby better that you don't care to go back.
For all you guys offering counseling to whghlost, I recommend you read his reviews, which you can access by clicking on his name in one of his discussion posts. There is a pattern of fixations on particular girls, gripes about club policies, misunderstandings, and getting kicked out for arguing.
There is an old saying, "discretion is the better part of valor". More discretion, and less valor, is needed.
If I sounded creepy, I was trying to show how a dancer might feel about someone they think of as a customer. They aren't part of their personal life and don't care to meet up with them later.
However since not everyone knows my history, I'll tell a little to clarify. I don't try to meet up with dancers except in rare circumstances. I meet a lot of dancers. Sometimes we may both hit it off pretty good. I've had a few dancers over the years talk me into going out or meeting up with them for a bite to eat, etc. or just meet in a more private setting. It's a bit more personal but the dancer wanted it and I agreed to it. Many of the regular posters here have done so already as well. There are a few dancers that like to play games which none of us like. I had one do this recently. She had given me her phone number and has called me a few times. She kept saying she wanted to go out with me sometime. Not for sex. I don't know but some guys apparently think everything has to be about sex. I don't. I was just going to go a water park. She had me call her to get her address as she said to in the club. However she never called back in time and I got the message after excuse after excuse, she didn't really want me in her personal life after all. It happens. I don't like games. I won't call her again even though she still says to.
I was given personal information about the dancer from the dancer. I was trying to show even with this information, I won't follow her on the road, honk my horn at her, etc. if I see her. That sounds creepy to me.
I'm thinking this is a lost cause trying to explain it's best to back off, forget the club, forget the dancer.
Oh well, thanks for all of the responses. I liked a few and a few I did not like. I have been going to strip clubs for 15 years. There are just 2 dancers I liked the most and remember. One of them no longer dances and she is still young. She is 24 by now and her stage name was Emily and she used to dance at Shooter's Alley. She and I actually lived together for a few months. She was or is a drug user. So, that and plus other things ended our relationship. The other dancer appears to be the opposite. She is very beautiful inside out. I had a great time with her and I don't know if she is pushing me away because she is starting to have feelings or I am getting too personal or a little bit of both. In any case, I had a great time and I will miss her greatly. You guys can judge me from whatever little excerpts I wrote from the past. I know I am a great guy. I am just a lonely guy who hopes to change this one day. I am going to try to venture strip clubs less and more on the real scene like the regular bars.
Dancers think of customers as a way to make money and usually do not want any contact with them outside of the club. If a customer tries to do so without invitation, that is creepy. You're not her boyfriend, father or relative or old high school friend. That's about as simple as I can say it and it doesn't matter if you had paid for 100 dances with her already if she doesn't want any more contact. I'm planning on dropping this subject.
"I am just a lonely guy who hopes to change this one day."
I'm sure you're a great guy. You made the girl uncomfortable, you get that now. I feel bad for you - not being condescending, mind you, but she probably took a LOT of your hard-earned money.
Yeah, that's a stripper's job. I get that. I married one. She's still good at it.
Strippers are fun, but if you start falling for one, MOVE ON. She's just going to rape your wallet - I've known way too many of them, and ALL have admitted to me that they feel a little bit bad about taking advantage of people like you - and many of them have told me stories that COULD be yours (I thought I "knew" who you were until later in the thread - I do not).
Dunno. Give them their money, but don't make it so easy that they take a deep breath and take it from you - make sure they're enjoying something other than just robbing you blind.
Say we all get uncomfortable about anything. It is call work!!! I am sure that she may have been uncomfortable with all guys who touch her. Plus, I think the night manager is an asshole. I don't think he even tried to tell her my side of the story. So, she is going on with thinking that I tried to follow her. So, he has banned me from the club after 7:30pm. I think he has this power trip going on. He is not doing his managerial job. So, I am pissed off!!! It is not easy to move on, but I will try. She is the opposite to what john said. She is uncomfortable with making more money from me. She gives me discount. Half hour suppose to be two bills, but she charges 1.5 bills just for me or who ever. So, oh well.
you say you did around 30 VIPs, and by implication I assume you spent around 4500 over 6 months or avg 600 a month? Established dancers with regulars generally average lets say net 200 to 300 per shift, they might do 100 one day and 600 another day, and that's assuming they got "convo" and good looks and are good dancers. That means you are (best wild guess) probably about 10% (or perhaps more) of her business and apparently a good customer and a steady source of income until this incident. While not huge, its not insignificant, meaning this girl really was scared. Nothing you can do, except put it in writing in a relatively concise letter to the manager and admit you made a (dumb but well intentioned) mistake in judgement two different times and explain how it was misinterpreted - and just hope someday maybe she could take you back. Meanwhile you need to find other dancers and accept that she may never want to dance with you again
Customer right? Well, the same rights as they have at Lowe's or McDonalds - none at all.
A private business can do what they damn well please.
And you say the manager isn't doing his "managerial job" banning you after 7:30pm - I agree wholeheartedly. He should ban you from the club, period. He SHOULD be looking after his girl!
At one point you mention "you aren't taking legal action". No fucking kidding! "Your honor, I had an amazing time fucking/sucking/fingering/whatever this chick in VIP and I DEMAND recompense!" Can't wait to read about that one in Creative Loafing's "News of the Weird". Just please stay out of the "blotter".
My advice - stay out of clubs a couple of months, take the $2-3 grand you save up and head to Bangkok or Costa Rica, bang a dozen hot 19 year olds who can't even speak English (no risk of a confusing relationship) and come back with renewed perspective for what "adult industry" girls are for - fun.
whghIost - After reading all the threads on this topic and giving it considerable time thinking, here is my final suggestion:
When you find another REALLY HOT dancer, stake-out the parking lot. Begin to follow her home. Enroute, if you come to a clear area with very little visibility...... pull in front of her to make her stop! Get out of your car and go drag her out of hers. Throw her in the trunk of your car. Take her to your home, where you have a pre-arranged, sound proof room in the basement. Place her in a cage and lock it. Provide her with bread crumbs and water. When she gets really hungry, make her do the things you like having done to you. When you get tired of her, blindfold her and drive her to an empty cornfield. Once you drop her off in the field, drive to the nearest airport and fly to make a new home about 1000 miles away. - - - Good luck!
Oh, I almost forgot. Once the law catches up to you, arrests and charges you with kidnapping, have your court-appointed attorney plea bargain for the lessor charge of 'False Imprisionment'. I mean after all, you didn't ask for a ransom! This way, you'll only spend about 10 to 15 years locked up!
So after damn near 50 response in this (oft empathetic and sometimes pathetic) thread; your advice is to kidnap the next dancer and make her a love slave?
Guess what I have learned. I spoke with someone who works at the club. He told me that my dancer is fine with me coming back, but the management is not. I tried to speak with one manager and he said he try to speak with my dancer and said that she did not want to hear me out. Yet I spoke with another person and he told me that it is in the hands of management and she does not work outside the club. This tells me that the night manager Jeff is either a racist or an asshole or both. This makes the other manager a lier or maybe his hands were tied by Jeff. In any case, I am screwed.
Whghlost, I don't know if you're putting us on or not. But assuming that you're serious and actually looking for advice, IMO you are putting yourself at major risk. If you keep pushing, the next time something bad happens at that club or to one of the dancers who works there, you are going to be a prime suspect. Is the risk worth it ot you? Give it up, man, before you end up in jail and/or labeled a sexual predator. It ain't worth it. Find another club where you're welcome. And spread your money around, don't get attached to one girl, you can't handle it.
You guys seem to focus on me rather than the content of the message here. Some of guys are predators simply looking to score and have sex in the club or outside. I was trying to describe an injustice or simply mistake that occurred. Just because I like this girl, it does not make me a bad guy. Many of you do have ATF. Just because, I spent too much time with her does not make me a stalker. We spent time together. Stalkers do not spent time, they spy. So, we all are guys who enjoy naked women. So, back off. I am not a bad person. I have never ever been in jail. She has. I don't do drugs. I don't smoke. I drink socially. I spent time playing with my ps3, xbox 360. It is easy to criticize someone you don't know at all. So, who are you to judge? Do you guys have a record? I bet someone of you guys have been in jail.
This might be a good time to start your own strip club. You can set your own rules
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at least until the law arrives and shuts the place down. Anyone that fucks with you the manager, gets banned.
Enjoy the power. Let us know what you call it so we can all enjoy it before vice or ALE shows up.
Whghlost, I'm not saying you're a bad person. You may be wonderful. But you're obviously being perceived as something else by the people at the club. Which could get you in big trouble, whether deserved or not. That should be reason enough for you to move on.
I am a bad person. I've done drugs and I used to smoke. I'm lucky I haven't done hard time. I guess my advice to W must be irrelevant. He shouldn't care about the impression he makes afterall. He should just keep doing what he's doing and expect everyone to see things his way. I don't know what I was thinking....
The three most dangerous words to ever think in a strip club are "I am special", or you could substitute "I am different". OK, a lot of have ATFs and have had some OTC experiences. A lot of us have been clubbing for 20 or more years. Most of the advice you are getting is dead on. You may have the purest of hearts and the noblest of motives, but you did some things that seemed creepy. You then compounded it by trying to fix things, obsessively, to the point where it made things worse. You are not special, you are not different, you are a customer. You think that explaining your specialness and differentness are going to make them suddenly change their minds and welcome you back. That is no different than the guy that thinks one more night with a few more VIP visits will be enough to finally convince the stripper you are special. It ain't gonna happen. Move on.
I did not do anything creepy. It was by chance or misfortune. After talking with another manager I discovered a new fact. My lights were not on when I left that night. I did not know that. The Friday before, my car would not start. My head llghts were left on overnight. I went to another car where the valet guy turn my headlights on by messing with my light setting. So, when I got home, I heard noise but ignored it. So, I was concern my car battery may be weak, since it over 3 years old. So, I recall that I did turn my light dial to off. So, I when I left the club, I forget to turn my headlights back on. So, I do see how she thought I was following her. She saw a car with no headlights. So, she thought she was being followed. Plus, she sped. I was wondering why she was going faster. I sped a little, but kept a good distance like 3 or 4 cars lenghts away. I had to change my car battery because it was very low. So, I did not do anything creepy. It just was a misfortunate of fate or whatever.
Giving the benefit of the doubt, there was certainly a confluence of events working against you - now it turns out the lights were off, hence the impression of shadowing - made worse by a bungled effort to make things "right" or "fair".
Sometimes the universe decides to fuck with people - see the Book of Job for an example - and when it does it's a good idea to lay low for a awhile.
Time to say "fuck it" and man-up and put it all behind you. You live in a town literally crammed with rental pussy, and you have 50 more clubs to choose from - that's 2000 dancers, easily. Just find a new one!
This is crazy... it gets crazier by the day... somehow this thread keeps sucking me back in... Maybe it's because W is so certain that he did nothing wrong. Maybe it's because the confluence of events, as O called them, aligned so perfectly to bring suspicion on W. Maybe it's my fear that someone that is completely innocent could be seen as being a threat. There's a saying about "he that protests the most..."
Whghlost:
I still believe that you didn't intend to do anything that would cause the dancer to freak out. I also believe that you didn't do anything wrong, and that it is all a misunderstanding. BUT (notice the big "but"), it's all in the perception as we have all been saying. Several people at the club - the dancer included - perceived that you were up to no good, and that you were stalking her. Whether it is true or not, it most definitely APPEARS to them, as though you were.
If, for instance, a magician performs a trick in which he saws a beautiful girl in half. Did he really cut her in half? No! Did it appear as though he did? Of course!
That is what is going on here. When it comes to someone's safety, people are going to err on the safe side. Were you stalking her? No. Did it appear as though you were? Of course!
Now, once and for all... DROP IT, DUDE! The more you try to prove your innocence, the more you look guilty. At the very least, it makes you look desperate. You have got to let her go! Take a break from her and that club and stay away.
As I said, you may be totally pure of heart but you did some things that SEEMED creepy. Lets just take the latest addition. You followed a few car lengths behind with your lights out. When she sped up you sped up to maintain, as you said, 3 or 4 car lengths away. Surely you can see that alone looks very creepy to a dancer. If you can't see that no amount of us pointing things out is going to help. Personally, I think you're just putting us on and having some fun. Each of these revelations makes it more and more unbelievable that you can still consider your being seen as a stalker as an unjust over-reaction.
This sounds like an idea. Wait in a strip club parking lot for a dancer to leave. Follow her in your car after she leaves the parking lot but don't turn your lights on. When she gets out on a quiet highway late at night with no one else around speed up to only a few car lengths behind her. Then if she's still trying to get away, honk your horn to let her know it's no joke. If you can see inside her car, watch her frantically phone 911 telling the police there's a crazy guy following her and she doesn't know what to do. She doesn't know if he intends to rape, rob, and kill her or what. Then go back to the club during the week and let everyone know it was you but pretend it was all a simple misunderstanding. I'm sure it would seem logical to any stalker.
Creepy? Nahhhh, what girl in her right mind driving alone at night would get creeped out by a dark car following her? I don't understand why some girls are afraid of some stranger following them late at night on a deserted road, do you? If she's like most girls around here, she could just stop the car, take out her saw-offed shot gun, and fire a warning shot right into the front windshield of the guy following her if he stopped too. I don't know though, the girls at the local college down the road from me have been winning awards for marksmanship using rifles. A well placed shot into the shoulder or arm and I think you'll live but get the warning. Of course if it was in my local area, you would have been pulled over for driving with no headlights and then been accused of driving drunk whether you had something to drink or not.
Casual guy, you are the creepy guy. Only you can come up with this crazy concept. I do see you can turn what I said into something not. What would be my motive? I have been seeing this dancer for 6 months +. Why would I try to scare her? I would not!! I do see how she perceived that someone was trying to follow her. I do realize and do feel bad that I did scared her. However, it was a mistake on my part to not remember to turn my headlights back on. It is her misreading the no headlights as someone trying to follow and her speeding was her mistake. I would have not sped if she has not sped. Plus, I did not sped to the point where I am 1 car lenght behind her. Never mind, I wasting my time with you guys.
Slightly off topic here but if I had a ton of money to burn. My car would have stickers on it saying "Warning Anti-Theft device installed!" Then if someone touched the car, a big multi-turreted gun would pop out of the top of the car, move quickly towards the direction of the intruder and a Clint Eastwood voice would say "Go ahead Punk, Make my Day!"
You're right whghlost, I don't think any of us are going to change your mind. Have fun and good luck with whatever you pursue (no more car chases ok?) I get crazy ideas all the time but I rarely ever act on any of them. I'm just a peaceful guy with a ton of ideas. Some dancers really enjoy listening to stories about some wild dreams I've had. You can blame it all on all of the sci-fi books and fantasy novels I used to read before I had a personal computer to waste my time away on.
You probably would have been ok at the club if you had just maintained a low profile and not let anyone know it was you that was following her that night. Oh well, you live and learn. Might be a good opportunity to stalk out another club.
"RomanticJester" must have been a Freudian slip, sounds pretty appropriate to me.
The only thing that puzzles me about this thread is why it was started in the first place. Wghglost clearly has no interest in our advice or opinions of his situation, so why is he telling us about it?
I was away for a two day business trip, and this damn thread expanded some more!
I think, at this point, it has turned into the "Battle of the Amateur Psychiatrists", in which we each take our turns trying to convince whghlost that there is world of difference between perception and reality; he rebuffs us, of course! Why? Because what got him in trouble in the first place was...his inability to distinguish between perception and reality...his perception he was having a regular human relationship and lotsa fun with a smoking hot young babe, and the reality that he was being tolerated...until he did something wrong...and then he was history.
In the book "Into Thin Air", the author recounts how some people who climb Mt Everest will ascend into the "death zone", and they will keep on goin, but they are really going to die, and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. And it's just bad luck..a storm, a strong gust of wind, a misstep, a little air bubble in their blood.
Whghlost, you have arrived at the top, but you will not get down. Not from this mountain anyway. Set coordinates for another club..energize!
I'm guessing he was venting or possibly thought some of us would join in and say, yeah man, they did you wrong, we should have rights.
I think all of us here know we're just asking for trouble if we follow a dancer we don't know outside the club and then bring up the situation to the manager in the club. If I'm not wanted in a club and know it, I get the hell away from it before a manager, bouncer, or someone else decides they want to teach me a lesson. I don't want to be put in any situation where an angry reaction could hurt someone back and cause me to be put in jail. Apparently not everyone agrees to stay away from trouble or cares too much about maintaining a low profile. I don't know though, I have been called a troublemaker at times. Maybe I stir things up too and I'm too much like the thread starter here. Except I don't follow dancers or try to make myself known to management very much. If I'm trying to contact management, I'm willing to make trouble and know it unless I already met the boss and he's suddenly friends with me. I think the dancers look at you different if they know you're friendly with the boss. I haven't thought about all the different ways but I ended up in that situation at one club. Bouncers were even coming up to me while I sitting around watching and would say "hi, how's it going?" That wasn't a bad thing but I knew I was never going to be an ordinary customer anymore. If you're one of the bosses friends, you might have his ears to talk to and he probably will listen. Otherwise, you're just another face.
HarryDave, you got me so wrong this time. My favorite dancer is very fun to be with. It is better than having a real relationship. You don't have to live with her or any girl in fact. I understand that the preception is what got me in trouble here. However, I am trying to work through proper channels to resolve and protect my good name. The girl has the wrong preception of what she thought happen. I just want to gain my right as a customer to shop when I want to shop. The day manager is fine with me in the club. It is the night manager who is not. The owner was to stay out of it. So, I have been going during the day. I wrote the story to be infromative. I was not asking for advice. I don't know how many of you have been mistreated by management. I was looking for a similar case or a different story. I was not looking for people to judge me. I know what I am doing. One of the managers told me that things may change. He told me to be patient. I will. In the meantime, I will try to have fun in the day. It is hard, because I am used to going at night.
Whghlost, I understand you believe it was a simple misunderstanding for which you are getting punished for. Thanks for informing us as well because it has been interesting reading this. If any of my posts seemed creepy, I was simply trying to describe how the situation might look to someone else. I do try to think about how something might look if I were in their shoes. I can easily see how you simply left one night, wasn't thinking too clearly (didn't turn on your headlights), saw one of your favorite dancers, sped up and honked your horn at her thinking nothing of it, then got surprised at the reaction you got in the club.
Saying all that, I think it was poor judgement to follow someone and keep up with them and even honk your horn. She didn't know who it was and that can scare the living daylights out of a lone girl late at night in my opinion. I think you understand that. I wouldn't even do that to someone I know in my own family if they didn't already know it was me. Someone late at night did something similiar (not honking the horn though) when I was on a empty road during the middle of the night. It tends to creep you out when they keep up with you. That's the reason they speed up or slow down, they want to lose the other person following them. I'm a guy and I thought it was a bit creepy when it happened to me and I can imagine a girl would have other fears. I thought maybe the guy was on drugs (not thinking reasonably at all and maybe a severe health hazard to me as well) or drunk or worse. I noticed the guy was following two other cars before I passed them all. Then he followed me. I sped up and that didn't lose him. After a while I slowed down a lot just to lose him. He slowed down a little but didn't want to match my speed. Actually I saw another car coming and whoever the lucky son of a bitch was he passed me and now had a new follower. I was happy, I lost the creep. I'd give it some time and try out other clubs in the meantime. Let everyone at that club cool off and forget about you for a while. If the economy turns bad fast which I'm thinking it might, clubs will be trying to get customers and business as much as possibly. Then you might have a good opportunity to be welcomed back. I'd give it at least a few months though.
For most dancers one of their greatest fears is a stalker/customer following their car from the club - its the equivalent to them of a nuclear event in war. It potentially puts at risk their entire private life and where their live. Most of us patrons are already keenly aware of this. For example, I've had a dancer try to tell me their car model, color, and license plate, the idea being for me to use it as a shortcut to make sure they are there at the club that day (daytime shift) (I don't believe playing stripper cell phone telephone tag so I don't want their number) - so for example I don't end up entering the club and blowing 500 dollars on some OTHER chick I couldn't resist.(which i've actually done) However I did accept their info and put it to memory, because its probably a good method, however I was very very reluctant to even have this info from them in the first place, because I knew it puts their identity at risk
David, you are exactly right. This entire discussion reminds me of a similar episode that I personally experienced many years ago. It took me a long time to realize that I had been a complete idiot. If you are going to participate in this hobby, you need to learn when to cut your losses and move on. It can be a painful lesson to learn, but if you aren't able to learn it you need to find another hobby.
This thread has been quite amusing. On a positive note, it's really good to see that there are so many regular posters who "get it". The negative is that whghlost definitely doesn't get it. Not a surprise that he's so lonely.
I was hoping the thread would keep going. Entertaining. :)
I don't have any problem with a dancer wanting to give me her phone number. I'm not at all worried about a risk to her identity. Actually I don't even own a cell phone so she has to write it down for me to start with. Then after I get it, I may not even be able to find it after a week or so. My biggest concern would be a dancer wanting to give me her number when I'm not at all interested in calling her. Fortunately, I haven't had too many dancers trying to hook up with me. They just want dances instead of going out to eat, etc, etc. etc. I usually don't even have to hear about all of their problems. I think that's why we enjoy strip clubs so much.
Maybe to keep this thread alive, I could suggest whghlost get the dancers mailing address and mail her a letter without his name on it. Then he could explain what happened. As a disclaimer though, I do not recommend this and will deny any knowledge of saying it was a good idea. Just wanted to say that in case he ends up in court. But I don't know what whghlost may be thinking. I don't even know where he gets some of his weird ideas.
They are selling a book with plans for a stardrive engine that they say can go faster than light speed and is available now for commercial power generation at 60 to 720 MW output levels without requiring normal fuel of any kind. What I thought was cool was a link they referenced to this site www.solstation.com that has 3D moveable star charts of all the nearby stars. Who wants to go to Tau Ceti?
http://www.stardrivedevice.com/web_ch13e… a little story about a trip there.
I guess that would be a long distance letter to a stripper from Tau Ceti, might be a good idea to mail it before you leave for the trip. :)
ClevelandTom: Sit tight, I think WhghLost is about due to make another attempt to clear up the confusion with that dancer... [wink] Hmm... maybe if he can't come in the club when she's there, he could just park next to her car in the parking lot, and he could maybe flash his lights at her when she leaves the building.... yeah, that might work!
He can also go to that intersection where he honked his horn at her and wait for her to drive by after work. He can have a big sign ready so that in case she doesn't get caught by the light, she can read it as she goes by.
WGHLOST, I see your Sept 28th, 2007 review of Oasis Emporium as follows:
"I went today because I was hoping to run into this hot girl there. However, she was not there. I did not find anyone attractive except for 2. Neither one did I get their attention. I did get couple dances from an asian girl. She was good. I was watching this shooter girl was quite good and erotic. It took a while to get her attention. She was my last show for the afternoon. Blake told me that it was time for me to leave. This really sucks and it makes me mad. Plus, the fact my favorite dancer would not hear me out. She just took what she saw and assume my intent and so forth. She has known me for 6 months and she just toss me away. That simply sucks. Her photo is on the Boomer's website (just her body). She has one tattoo. It is at her left pelvic side, right above her pussy. It is a star. I don't understand. It has been 4 weeks, since I last spent time with her. Why, are you doing this?"
Problem is that girl (if that's the picture) - could be a very high earner, and in relative terms your apparent $600 a month or so, may not be that much of her income
You need to cease trying to talk to her or contact her in any way. Its for your own good not just hers.
You also need to consider the possiblity they could be considering seeking a restrainig order against you
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In practical terms you sound like a very good customer, and clubs want business and dancers want dependable regulars, (especially VIP one hour types) so instead of phone calls write a letter to the club similar to the one above explaining what occured, and odds are (I believe) they will eventually let you back in, but you won't have any guarantee. However you have to understand your "rights" in fact are zero, as even a personal service contract (which this is not) cannot as a general rule be enforced anyways against the provider of the services -so don't bother with a lawyer or threatening them, it will only hurt your cause
(By the way I happen to be (among other things) be an admitted bar member for many years - but I don't practice, however there's some practicing lawyers in here that will probably tell you the same thing)
Furthermore, a fact of life is that when one side breaks off a relationship, the other side doesn't always get a fair explanation. It might not seem fair, but it's the way the cookie crumbles.
WHY NOT??
I can sympathize with the frustrations that you are feeling, but I also have to side with the majority of the responses. Even though I believe you were not stalking, without intending to, you did give the appearance that you were.
Please forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I also get the impression that perhaps you are from a different country and that there may be a language barrier that has played a role in all of this. It's quite possible that maybe something said was misunderstood due to a difference in language and / or customs.
You have to be cognizant of the dancer's perspective. Maybe she was already feeling that you were putting too much pressure on her for dances at the club before she left. Then upon leaving the club she finds your card on her car (she might've gotten even more nervous to find out that you somehow knew which car was hers). To see you driving next to her and honking - at 2:50am, no less, on a presumably dark and deserted highway... I think that would've made >>ME<< feel uneasy if I'd been in her place.
You also have to keep in mind that dancers are constantly hit on, and more often than you would think, they are stalked and followed on the road. My ATF has told me that she's had a guy follow her all the way to her house (over an hour away). With news of coeds disappearing and bodies being found, you sure cannot blame a girl to be cautious. (actually I was going to say OVERLY cautious, but I don't think that's possible... they should be VERY cautious and diligent in watching out for potentially dangerous situations).
Sooo... like others above have said, my (our) best advice is for you to back off. Forget it. Drop it. Move on. Let things calm down while you visit OTHER clubs. I'm sure word has spread around the club and I would think ALL of the girls there are probably feeling a bit threatened by you, as well, so it's best to avoid going to that club.
Maybe in a month or two - or three - you might test the waters at the same club again. By all means, do not approach your fav dancer unless she first approaches you. In fact, don't even make eye contact. She will probably eventually come around and MAYBE things can be repaired between the two of you.
Good luck!
I went back and read your review of the club in question. First, let me apologize for thinking that you were from another country. I got the impression that you were from your post, which read to me like a foreigner was typing due to a few typos and grammar things. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not giving you a hard time about that, I just wanted to explain myself.
After reading your review, which incidentally was quite lucid and free of those typos and grammar issues, I see that you are not from a foreign country. My guess is that when you posted this message thread, you were probably typing quite fast and trying to verbalize all of the turmoil that was swirling in your head over this incident. I have done that myself in emails and postings on this board... I get so into my thoughts and typing so quickly that my fingers don't always convey the ideas that seemed so clear in my mind.
Again, please don't take offense..
I think the best thing is to stay away from the club. Let a few months pass. Even if the management allow you back into the club the girls there are not going to want to have anything to do with you because they all think you are a stalker now.
Let the issue die. Go back in a few months. But stay away from that girl. Have nothing to do with her.
Give it a try next spring, maybe some fresh dancers will be there.
She isn't worth all the headache you are putting yourself through. You shouldn't even chase after an Ex-Girlfriend like that, so why chase after some stripper in a stripclub.
minnow: david9999 is correct. Several years ago I knew an attorney that was also and air line pilot.
One of the hallmarks of emotional intelligence is the ability to have empathy and concern for another person, and to see the world through their eyes. I think others on this thread have made the case for your favorite, and I agree with them. Your favorite girl sees things differently than you, and most likely, not just about that particular night, but about the nature of your relationship and its propsects for the future. It does not matter that you saw her so frequently for 6 months. You believed you were building up to one thing, and she was building up to something quite different, perhaps nothing except a steadier income. Unfortunately, you freaked her out, without intending to. But that night was not the reason, it was only the final straw, the trigger.
I speak from hard won experience. You will know the difference between a stripper that appreciates your business, is friendly, and encourages you to keep spending money to be with her, and a stripper that really likes you and wants to have a complete relationship with you. The main difference is that she will want to spend some time, maybe a lot of time, with you outside of the club doing casual and mundane things that do not involve giving her $100 or $200 a day. If you do not have that complete relationship, than you are just a customer. She will keep you at some emotional distance to protect her own fragile self, and if you press too hard, she will get away from you as fast as she can, using others to shield her.
As the others have advised, give her up. Next time, go much, much easier.
I remember one night this one guy was following people in his car while I encountered two other drivers just driving around the speed limit but apparently wanting to lose this one guy following them. They actually did the unusual move to slow down to a slow speed of 45 mph late at night to lose this guy when I started to approach. This guy sped up and followed me then. I thought it was a bit freaky to have this guy following me. I was wondering if he was drunk or on drugs. You just don't know when someone follows you. He followed me sometimes immediately behind my car or driving beside it. I slowed down below the speed limit and noticed another car finally approaching from behind. I let that car speed around. The weird driver immediately followed the faster car. From my perspective, it seemed like a weird stalker, people do not like being followed or harassed. All I could think was good riddance. I think it might be a good idea to avoid the club for 6 months just to let other dancers know you're not a stalker.
I've seen a number of dancers in the club every week for a long time. I may even have their name and phone number. I usually let them contact me or would suggest things to them in person. I'd never dream of talking to management or scaring her late at night on the highway. One dancer I know whom I did have her real name and phone number didn't want to give me her address to meet up. She was playing a game with me apparently. I just thought ok, I won't even ask to go out with her anymore even though she kept suggesting it. End of story, I don't want to go out with her now if she asked me to.
The best thing you can do is make sure you tighten your aluminum foil hat real good, learn the web address of the local sex-offender database (so you will be able to sign up), put on some pants and sit and wait for the cops to come and arrest you. Nut Job.
Whghlost:
I'm glad to see from your last posts that it sounds like you now see the point that we were trying to make. I never said, nor do I think anyone else here suggested that we didn't believe your account of what happened on that Sunday night. I certainly believe it happened as you said it happened; heck, it sounds like MY kind of luck. Most of us agreed that we never thought you were stalking this girl, we were all just pointing out that we could understand how she might feel like she was being stalked.
I also wanted to tell you that I DO understand how you feel, and I know from personal experience, how easily one can form feelings for dancer. (if you've read many of my posts, you will know that I can truthfully say that) Yes, I have my favorite dancers; usually just one that I see on a regular basis and spend a lot of time with as often as possible. Even with her, I am cautious.
Very early on in our "relationship", there was a similar instance where we left the club together (I had walked her to her vehicle - only after asking for her permission to do so), and we both left the parking lot at the same time. We both headed down the same road in the same direction; she was in front. I was very careful to leave plenty of room between our vehicles and to not follow closely. In the back of my mind I worried that she might get the wrong impression of the coincidental driving route. Since it was after 3am and no one else was on the road, it would've been very obvious to her that it was me driving behind her. I was feeling a little uncomfortable because I didn't want to startle her or anything, so I fell further back and was relieved when she finally took her exit. Yes, it was very tempting to catch up to her and honk, wave, flash my lights, etc., but I was careful not to give her any wrong ideas. Had it been just another guy that I'd had some beers with, I might've done one or more of those things... but not with a girl, who would most likely interpret the situation much differently.
Speaking of comfort levels, I wanted to relate this anecdotal incident that demonstrates how you can never assume that a dancer (or anyone) trusts you. After months of spending time with my ATF (the dancer that I've been talking about) ITC (inside the club), I started having an emotional connection with her. I wanted to spend more time with her, preferably OTC, so that we could get to know each other better.
I thought she surely trusted me because we had gotten to know quite a bit about each other. I was always respectful of her. I never tried to press her limits during dances; I never even touched her breasts until she finally placed my hands on them. Without putting any pressure on her, I started suggesting that we go out to eat or something. She was against it. Even though we apparently shared this connection, she still didn't know if she could trust me or not. How could she ever know what I was really like? Even Ted Bundy was clean cut, good looking and very charming, but look at what he was doing?
Finally, she gave in a little and agreed to meet me OTC. We met at a predesignated restaurant and had a great time talking over lunch. She seemed to finally trust me. When I asked her to spend the rest of the afternoon with me, she agreed only after I assured her that my intentions were pure and that I didn't have any false expectations. She told me that she had to return to her vehicle for a few minutes before she could leave. She sat in her vehicle for about 5 min doing something, then she got out, locked it up and crawled into mine and we continued on our merry way.
Later - several MONTHS later - she confessed something to me that I found shocking, and a bit humorous. She told me that when she'd gone to her vehicle before we left, there was something that she had to do. She said at that point in time she was "fairly sure" that I could be trusted, and that I was who I said I was, etc., but just in case, she had left something on the seat of her vehicle.
She'd left a note that said that she had left at [xxxx] date/time, with [my name], that I had [xxxxx] colored hair, was [height and weight], that I was driving a [color, and vehicle model], I was from [city], my cell number was [999-9999], I worked at [employer], my wife and kids names are [xxxxx]. Lastly, my business card was placed on the note. Basically, she had left enough information about me to make sure that if she turned up missing, there was no doubt who was responsible for it. Pretty smart! (also proof of how much she trusted me, and how much she trusted her own intuition)
There is an old saying, "discretion is the better part of valor". More discretion, and less valor, is needed.
However since not everyone knows my history, I'll tell a little to clarify. I don't try to meet up with dancers except in rare circumstances. I meet a lot of dancers. Sometimes we may both hit it off pretty good. I've had a few dancers over the years talk me into going out or meeting up with them for a bite to eat, etc. or just meet in a more private setting. It's a bit more personal but the dancer wanted it and I agreed to it. Many of the regular posters here have done so already as well. There are a few dancers that like to play games which none of us like. I had one do this recently. She had given me her phone number and has called me a few times. She kept saying she wanted to go out with me sometime. Not for sex. I don't know but some guys apparently think everything has to be about sex. I don't. I was just going to go a water park. She had me call her to get her address as she said to in the club. However she never called back in time and I got the message after excuse after excuse, she didn't really want me in her personal life after all. It happens. I don't like games. I won't call her again even though she still says to.
I was given personal information about the dancer from the dancer. I was trying to show even with this information, I won't follow her on the road, honk my horn at her, etc. if I see her. That sounds creepy to me.
I'm thinking this is a lost cause trying to explain it's best to back off, forget the club, forget the dancer.
"I am just a lonely guy who hopes to change this one day."
I'm sure you're a great guy. You made the girl uncomfortable, you get that now. I feel bad for you - not being condescending, mind you, but she probably took a LOT of your hard-earned money.
Yeah, that's a stripper's job. I get that. I married one. She's still good at it.
Strippers are fun, but if you start falling for one, MOVE ON. She's just going to rape your wallet - I've known way too many of them, and ALL have admitted to me that they feel a little bit bad about taking advantage of people like you - and many of them have told me stories that COULD be yours (I thought I "knew" who you were until later in the thread - I do not).
Dunno. Give them their money, but don't make it so easy that they take a deep breath and take it from you - make sure they're enjoying something other than just robbing you blind.
.02c - best of luck!
JC
Must be some VIP ride ;)
O.
Customer right? Well, the same rights as they have at Lowe's or McDonalds - none at all.
A private business can do what they damn well please.
And you say the manager isn't doing his "managerial job" banning you after 7:30pm - I agree wholeheartedly. He should ban you from the club, period. He SHOULD be looking after his girl!
At one point you mention "you aren't taking legal action". No fucking kidding! "Your honor, I had an amazing time fucking/sucking/fingering/whatever this chick in VIP and I DEMAND recompense!" Can't wait to read about that one in Creative Loafing's "News of the Weird". Just please stay out of the "blotter".
My advice - stay out of clubs a couple of months, take the $2-3 grand you save up and head to Bangkok or Costa Rica, bang a dozen hot 19 year olds who can't even speak English (no risk of a confusing relationship) and come back with renewed perspective for what "adult industry" girls are for - fun.
O.
When you find another REALLY HOT dancer, stake-out the parking lot. Begin to follow her home. Enroute, if you come to a clear area with very little visibility...... pull in front of her to make her stop! Get out of your car and go drag her out of hers. Throw her in the trunk of your car. Take her to your home, where you have a pre-arranged, sound proof room in the basement. Place her in a cage and lock it. Provide her with bread crumbs and water. When she gets really hungry, make her do the things you like having done to you. When you get tired of her, blindfold her and drive her to an empty cornfield. Once you drop her off in the field, drive to the nearest airport and fly to make a new home about 1000 miles away. - - - Good luck!
So after damn near 50 response in this (oft empathetic and sometimes pathetic) thread; your advice is to kidnap the next dancer and make her a love slave?
You are too much. We love you dude !
You're heading towards an America's Most Wanted episode if you keep it up.
Uh, I'd seriously recommend just dropping the whole issue because it's become *pretty weird*.
DEFINITELY time to find a new club...
O.
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at least until the law arrives and shuts the place down. Anyone that fucks with you the manager, gets banned.
Enjoy the power. Let us know what you call it so we can all enjoy it before vice or ALE shows up.
"I'm going to get you Wabbit!". I'm not a stalker, I'm just OBSESSED with a dancer.
I said it first. This thread creeps me out.
Sometimes the universe decides to fuck with people - see the Book of Job for an example - and when it does it's a good idea to lay low for a awhile.
Time to say "fuck it" and man-up and put it all behind you. You live in a town literally crammed with rental pussy, and you have 50 more clubs to choose from - that's 2000 dancers, easily. Just find a new one!
Whghlost:
I still believe that you didn't intend to do anything that would cause the dancer to freak out. I also believe that you didn't do anything wrong, and that it is all a misunderstanding. BUT (notice the big "but"), it's all in the perception as we have all been saying. Several people at the club - the dancer included - perceived that you were up to no good, and that you were stalking her. Whether it is true or not, it most definitely APPEARS to them, as though you were.
If, for instance, a magician performs a trick in which he saws a beautiful girl in half. Did he really cut her in half? No! Did it appear as though he did? Of course!
That is what is going on here. When it comes to someone's safety, people are going to err on the safe side. Were you stalking her? No. Did it appear as though you were? Of course!
Now, once and for all... DROP IT, DUDE! The more you try to prove your innocence, the more you look guilty. At the very least, it makes you look desperate. You have got to let her go! Take a break from her and that club and stay away.
All it needs to be really complete is for RomanticJester to weigh IN with his OPINIONS.
O.
Damn this forum and it's lack of an edit feature!
O.
The only thing that puzzles me about this thread is why it was started in the first place. Wghglost clearly has no interest in our advice or opinions of his situation, so why is he telling us about it?
I think, at this point, it has turned into the "Battle of the Amateur Psychiatrists", in which we each take our turns trying to convince whghlost that there is world of difference between perception and reality; he rebuffs us, of course! Why? Because what got him in trouble in the first place was...his inability to distinguish between perception and reality...his perception he was having a regular human relationship and lotsa fun with a smoking hot young babe, and the reality that he was being tolerated...until he did something wrong...and then he was history.
In the book "Into Thin Air", the author recounts how some people who climb Mt Everest will ascend into the "death zone", and they will keep on goin, but they are really going to die, and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. And it's just bad luck..a storm, a strong gust of wind, a misstep, a little air bubble in their blood.
Whghlost, you have arrived at the top, but you will not get down. Not from this mountain anyway. Set coordinates for another club..energize!
Let's give everyone a round of applause!
I think all of us here know we're just asking for trouble if we follow a dancer we don't know outside the club and then bring up the situation to the manager in the club. If I'm not wanted in a club and know it, I get the hell away from it before a manager, bouncer, or someone else decides they want to teach me a lesson. I don't want to be put in any situation where an angry reaction could hurt someone back and cause me to be put in jail. Apparently not everyone agrees to stay away from trouble or cares too much about maintaining a low profile. I don't know though, I have been called a troublemaker at times. Maybe I stir things up too and I'm too much like the thread starter here. Except I don't follow dancers or try to make myself known to management very much. If I'm trying to contact management, I'm willing to make trouble and know it unless I already met the boss and he's suddenly friends with me. I think the dancers look at you different if they know you're friendly with the boss. I haven't thought about all the different ways but I ended up in that situation at one club. Bouncers were even coming up to me while I sitting around watching and would say "hi, how's it going?" That wasn't a bad thing but I knew I was never going to be an ordinary customer anymore. If you're one of the bosses friends, you might have his ears to talk to and he probably will listen. Otherwise, you're just another face.
Saying all that, I think it was poor judgement to follow someone and keep up with them and even honk your horn. She didn't know who it was and that can scare the living daylights out of a lone girl late at night in my opinion. I think you understand that. I wouldn't even do that to someone I know in my own family if they didn't already know it was me. Someone late at night did something similiar (not honking the horn though) when I was on a empty road during the middle of the night. It tends to creep you out when they keep up with you. That's the reason they speed up or slow down, they want to lose the other person following them. I'm a guy and I thought it was a bit creepy when it happened to me and I can imagine a girl would have other fears. I thought maybe the guy was on drugs (not thinking reasonably at all and maybe a severe health hazard to me as well) or drunk or worse. I noticed the guy was following two other cars before I passed them all. Then he followed me. I sped up and that didn't lose him. After a while I slowed down a lot just to lose him. He slowed down a little but didn't want to match my speed. Actually I saw another car coming and whoever the lucky son of a bitch was he passed me and now had a new follower. I was happy, I lost the creep. I'd give it some time and try out other clubs in the meantime. Let everyone at that club cool off and forget about you for a while. If the economy turns bad fast which I'm thinking it might, clubs will be trying to get customers and business as much as possibly. Then you might have a good opportunity to be welcomed back. I'd give it at least a few months though.
-Robert Heinlein
I don't have any problem with a dancer wanting to give me her phone number. I'm not at all worried about a risk to her identity. Actually I don't even own a cell phone so she has to write it down for me to start with. Then after I get it, I may not even be able to find it after a week or so. My biggest concern would be a dancer wanting to give me her number when I'm not at all interested in calling her. Fortunately, I haven't had too many dancers trying to hook up with me. They just want dances instead of going out to eat, etc, etc. etc. I usually don't even have to hear about all of their problems. I think that's why we enjoy strip clubs so much.
http://www.stardrivedevice.com/index.htm…
They are selling a book with plans for a stardrive engine that they say can go faster than light speed and is available now for commercial power generation at 60 to 720 MW output levels without requiring normal fuel of any kind. What I thought was cool was a link they referenced to this site www.solstation.com that has 3D moveable star charts of all the nearby stars. Who wants to go to Tau Ceti?
http://www.stardrivedevice.com/web_ch13e…
a little story about a trip there.
I guess that would be a long distance letter to a stripper from Tau Ceti, might be a good idea to mail it before you leave for the trip. :)
Balloons might also help to catch her attention.
"I went today because I was hoping to run into this hot girl there. However, she was not there. I did not find anyone attractive except for 2. Neither one did I get their attention. I did get couple dances from an asian girl. She was good. I was watching this shooter girl was quite good and erotic. It took a while to get her attention. She was my last show for the afternoon. Blake told me that it was time for me to leave. This really sucks and it makes me mad. Plus, the fact my favorite dancer would not hear me out. She just took what she saw and assume my intent and so forth. She has known me for 6 months and she just toss me away. That simply sucks. Her photo is on the Boomer's website (just her body). She has one tattoo. It is at her left pelvic side, right above her pussy. It is a star. I don't understand. It has been 4 weeks, since I last spent time with her. Why, are you doing this?"
Now on the Boomers website which is http://boomersstripclub.com/default2.htm
Now I see a dancer with a star but its on HER right side, but "at her left pelvic side" as we are looking at the photo. Her head is slightly in view.
Is THAT the dancer you've been talking about?
You need to cease trying to talk to her or contact her in any way. Its for your own good not just hers.
You also need to consider the possiblity they could be considering seeking a restrainig order against you