discussion comment
5 years ago
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founderslip a dollar in her g-string for me
Right. Hate to be the broken record, but this, multiple forums, user moderated areas, etc. is an awful lot of complexity for something that every other forum solves easily. Yes I know, wasting my breath, but still.
discussion comment
5 years ago
For many years, there was a guy who came to Mitchell Brothers -- this was at its peak, when the girls were positively gorgeous -- every single day. If I remember right, he was homeless or otherwise associated with the homeless community. He evidently came in every day, paid his cover charge, and most just sat a few rows back from the stage. Management was fine with him and some of the girls would sit and chat with him for a little bit, even though he never tipped.
After MBOT was forced to sign the consent decree whose impact basically destroyed the club, over the next couple of years all us MBOT partisans basically moved over to Crazy Horse. As did the gentleman in the above story! I saw him in the club fairly often for a while.
There was another interesting older guy at Crazy Horse. He was there most days, and I noticed he never tipped or did dances, but I'd very often see strippers huddled with him. Apparently, he carved out a role for himself as the strippers' gopher/bitch. Whatever they wanted done -- go get me a sandwich at Subway, give me a massage, grab me a Red Bull -- he'd do. The girls who used him as their servant, paid him back with a little attention & socializing. Everyone seemed very happy with the arrangement. He basically lived there
discussion comment
5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
As an ATFer, for the most part, this is really easy for me: most of my trips, I've already made an appointment, and I spend 100% of my money on my ATF or CF. No tipping anyone or anywhere else. Easy!
Sometimes, I don't have an appointment. In that case, if I find a stripper I like, well, this is her interview to be my new CF. I spend 100% of my money on her. I may do some stage tips just to get everyone's attention, or to fill some time.
Sometimes, I not only have no appointment, but am not attracted to any of the strippers. In that case, if I meet a stripper who is fun to hang out with, I might just have drinks with her and compensate her for her time in lieu of a dance
discussion comment
5 years ago
Generally speaking, I pay for her time with VIP dances.
Sometimes, I get to the club, and there's literally no girl I'm interested in getting VIP dances with. But a stripper comes up, I let her stay her usual one song, and I find her fun to talk to. I'll ask her if she drinks and if she says yes, well at least my trip isn't a total waste -- now I have a fun drinking buddy. As long as I have no more interesting options, I'm fine with this -- I've already cleared my calendar and driven over an hour there (and face another hour home), just turning around and going home is a colossal waste of an afternoon. Whereas I can enjoy drinking for an hour with a rockin' fun chick, even if she's not my type. I will definitely tip her for the hour. I hate to say it, but since the clubs here currently take 100% of the first $150 the girls make, and 70% of the next $150, giving her even $60 that the club can't touch (since it's hand-to-hand instead of as a dance) is a pretty big win for her, especially if it's a slow time and there's no real opportunity cost for staying with me.
I realize many of you guys have a different agenda - if she's not hot enough to do dances with, she's not hot enough to hang with. I am sometimes open to other diversions if the trip is otherwise a bust.
discussion comment
5 years ago
The SF clubs have been very slow for a few years -- noticeably slower than (say) 10 years ago. The transition to employees has been a further nail in the coffin. So, special circumstances for SF, but absolutely it's been a slow grind downwards.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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founderslip a dollar in her g-string for me
Just the fact that you call it fabulous, is already fabulous! :) :)
discussion comment
5 years ago
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founderslip a dollar in her g-string for me
Founder: I respect that. It's the "forums are cost centers" thing I'm addressing; it's just not true. I just don't buy that tuscl is different than every other site in the universe where a high quality forum significantly drives site $. This forum is a cost center because you're okay with it and have chosen not to turn it into something more.
But, I'll also mention, on none of those other sites is the founder doing all the moderating. Whether big or small, there's a site admin that basically does what you do (look in now and then, address big topics and issues and otherwise stay above the fray) and a few handpicked mods who have volunteered to enforce the admin's rules. And that model, in turn, is why autotopia is one of the biggest auto detailing sites on the web. You as sole moderator is not a model that works anywhere.
Anyway, well run forums drive revenue, they are not cost centers, unless that's how the site owner chooses to to run the forum. That's all I'm saying.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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founderslip a dollar in her g-string for me
-->"I think the real problem is a commercial one, which is dedicating a lot more time and resources to a piece of the site that is really just a cost center."
Rick, it's this "forum as a cost center" that I always have trouble with. Taking a look at the bigger picture for a moment -- in smaller specialty markets, the site with big active forums, are also the biggest sites. Pick some obscure thing -- car detailing, say -- and you'll find the biggest sites, autotopia and autogeek, also have big, active forums. I could go through example after example of how these types of sites use high quality forums to draw eyeballs to their site, and reap the commercial benefits from it. Closer to home, when sfredbook.com so dominated the SF sex industry that backpage, TER, etc. basically had little to no presence, it was on the back of two things: a fantastic review site, and active high quality forums.
In short, there's no such thing as high quality forums being a cost center in this type of niche. A lower signal-to-noise ratio forum, that is not a draw in itself, due to trolls, more off-topic than on-topic conversations, a disgruntled core of quality contributors and a small group of active trolls who can easily take any conversation off base? Well yes, cost center. I'm not surprised that, given when a newbie sees when he comes onto the front page, that our rate of active new contributors is low.
The thing is -- and again, this is proven a zillion times over -- all it takes is some light active moderation. This site absolutely could be *the* US-wide SC forum, easily. I don't push the big active cadre of SF PLs (who are currently on yahoo groups -- YAHOO GROUPS!) to here, because I know they wouldn't stay in this environment. Tuscl could easily be sucking them in.
I'll do the usual disclaimer here -- I appreciate what founder does, recognize his absolute right to run this site as he sees fit. But the forum as a cost center is small minded thinking; it just doesn't work that way anywhere else, when a forum can sustain enough quality to hit critical mass.
Rant over. Phew!
discussion comment
5 years ago
-->"OP, you're a fucking asshole for doing that. You put the health of independent contractors at risk for your own personal satisfaction. Some of those girls may not have health insurance and have dependents to care for."
Don't worry Waffs, none of that happened. OP is a particularly banal troll persona
discussion comment
5 years ago
She should be beautiful and sexy (duh). Her personality should come off as youthful energetic and not jaded.
ITC, she should be interesting, fun, provide YMMV in the back, and reliably keep appointments.
OTC, she should first of all be willing to meet OTC :) She should of course be interesting and fun OTC also; in addition, she should have an OTC pay-per-date model (same price whether it's 3 hours or overnight) rather than an escort-like by-the-hour by-the-act model.
I'm looking for a mind-blowing amount of fun and diversion, I have plenty of women in my life with whom I can talk "politics, religion, or world affairs" (as rick says), so that's not the void she's filling for me, and a total don't care. It's great if she's book-smart but fine if she's not. If we can fill the whole time easily with laughing, swapping fun stories, and flirting our way to mind-blowing sex, we're golden. I don't need to have political discussions with 21 year olds, and in fact prefer not to.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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gammanu95My casual drinking is your alcohol poisoning.
Light moderation is the best answer. All these other things -- splitting into a zillion forums, 2 way censorship and then not 2-way censorship, etc., -- are all poor ways to try to accomplish what light moderation would do.
All of that said, as I stated in the thread in the front room, right now I probably wouldn't use it -- it's only when Nicole and Icey literally took over or took off track every thread that I found it was useful. Even the never-ending stream of CJKent shitposts, meh, whatever... although the best policy would be, a temp ban for posting politics in the front room
discussion comment
5 years ago
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gammanu95My casual drinking is your alcohol poisoning.
sjg, founder isn't going to apply any moderation here. He isn't for moderation and has the same lack of care as to whether an on-topic forum would help or hurt this site as many here. Hell, even 2-way blocking was too much. So don't worry, your topics are safe!
discussion comment
5 years ago
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gammanu95My casual drinking is your alcohol poisoning.
For me, all the broad allusions to greater free speech principles are ridiculous. This is a private board; keeping it at least vaguely on-topic instead of a toxic cesspool that potentially drives people from the site, is what I'd be doing.
That said, for me, the only time recently that the board got to the point that it was basically crippled was, IMO, when the Nicole and Icey trolls were basically dominating every main topic and taking every other thread off-topic, through sheer volume. They're the only ones I ever needed 2-way block for. They're gone, so even if we had it, I'd have no need for it until dougster or whomever gets extra time on his hands and fires up more high-volume trolls.
I'd strongly prefer standard moderation -- a short clear set of rules (e.g., "if you post a political thread anywhere but political, 1st offense is 1 week ban, 2nd offense is lifetime ban" "Everyone who joins SJG's organization gets 50% off VIP" etc.) that are enforced. Yes, I know, never happen. But you asked. (okay, you didn't, but I told you anyway)
discussion comment
5 years ago
-->"Girls who only do VIP may do so for a number of reasons, but usually it's because she doesn't want to get tied up in lower margin activities when she believes that she can stack VIP sales. I don't find this to be any indicator, good or bad, of how her performance will be in the back. Though sometimes those girls are lining up VIP sales, including additional tips for their efforts, precisely because they are good performers. But there are any number of reasons (low costs, lots of regulars, uber hot girl, etc.) why VIPs may be a better route for a girl. These girls only have so many hours in the night to earn, so I don't begrudge any girl who makes a choice like this."
Generally agree, although I find myself annoyed anyway. To re-iterate my other point: my local SC forum had a review culture that was more focused on the girls than on club layout and costs. With specific g-2 on the girls, it was possible to know going in that Mercedes was a VIP-only girl who killed it in the VIP, and that Raven, by contrast, was a VIP-only girl who is GPS and phones it in. That local forum and review site is gone, and without that info, I'm not willing to commit to a VIP without a lapdance testdrive at our local extras clubs. At the alcohol clubs it's different, I will have spent an hour drinking with, and groping on, the stripper in advance, and I just go straight to a VIP anyway.
discussion comment
5 years ago
Damn dude, I NEVER let that happen. Either I pro-actively dismiss her, or if she's interesting, I'll turn towards her and give her my attention (with the opening like of "I'm waiting for so-and-so, and not buying dances from anyone else, but you're welcome to hang out and talk"). Although my general attitude is that there's rarely a downside to being on good terms with everyone in the club; maybe one of my buddies will like her later, maybe I'll like her on a day my ATF isn't around, and maybe it'll be more fun to talk to her than sit on my phone. But again, if she's just unattractive of unpleasant/ghetto, I pro-actively dismiss her immediately
discussion comment
5 years ago
I appreciate the girls who don't do VIP. My assumption is that non-VIP girls don't offer the level of contact that is expected at that particular club, and I appreciate that they neither waste my time, nor potentially put themselves in an uncomfortable situation.
ONLY doing VIP is another story. Unless you have solid g2 (more on this in a moment), why the fuck would a PL take that risk? I realize newbies can get pressured into doing dumb things, but it's not something I'm doing. That said, back a few years ago I posted my "rules for newbies" article to an SF-local forum, and was DMed by a well-known (and VIP-only) local stripper who liked the article. This particular stripper was a bit polarizing -- half the PLs hated her for being a VIP-only GPS beyoch; the other half said she was freaking amazing in the VIP and loved her. Anyway, we got to talking, and she vented to me, along the lines of, "you guys sit and complain how the club has so many ROBs and time-shavers and miscounters and bad lapdancers now. And meanwhile, I am blowing guys away in the VIP, I'm old school putting in effort that drives you crazy, but you're all angry because I won't waste my energy with $20 dances (of which I make $12)? Shouldn't you be glad there's a stripper who makes sure you leave smiling?" She's kinda got a point. I had had a VIP with her in the past and it was fkn outstanding. The club had gotten worse and worse but she was still putting so much effort in the VIP; was it really so bad that she didn't want to deal with the frustrations of the lap dance room, all to earn $12?
Anyway, that's where g-2 about the stripper helps. I realize I'm out of touch from most of tuscl on this, but it's why I feel yet another review that discusses the drink prices and where the bathroom is relative to the bar, is value-less, especially if the previous 10 reviews all covered that. Whereas reviews that gives g-2 about specific girls -- without getting them in trouble -- is valuable. But SF's PL review culture has always been about the girls instead of about the drink prices, so I'm way mis-aligned. But knowing the girl in the above story is amazing in VIP -- that's the only thing that got me to do a VIP with her, and I'm sure glad I did.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I've been on the interwebs since the original usenet SC group, and the one constant over those years is that the philosophy on all those forums has mostly been "any sex is good, as long as it's vanilla". You'd think guys who are engaged in marginalized activities would have broader views of sex, but it's been every SC forum. Just kind of interesting.
Anyway, of my kinks, feet are not one of them. Although I think you are especially brave in indulging in a stripper's feet -- those girls are hard on their dogs, man! To nicespice's point, I have heard from a number of strippers that foot fetish customers are appreciated, so there's that
discussion comment
5 years ago
I enjoy complaining about tats and piercings as much as the next guy. That said, I'm not entirely sure I've noticed a huge difference in the past few decades. 30 years ago, we were all on usenet, complaining that all the strippers had tats and piercings. Now we're on a forum on the web, complaining about the exact same thing. It's always been the case that the type of men who are successful enough to afford being an SC regular, generally come from an educational and cultural background that gives them negative views of tats and piercings. And the type of women who become strippers come from an educational and cultural background that appreciates tats and piercings. One of the many ironies of SCing lol
discussion comment
5 years ago
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Cashman1234He/Him - He’s a filthy pig. That’s him in VIP with another whore.
Holy fuck Cash. Horrible man, just horrible
discussion comment
5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
I mostly skip the clubs and OTC instead, or get a nice happy ending massage. Things were crazy here when we had the world cup, and during the superbowl, they drastically increased the prices of everything, and changed all tables to reserve/bottleservice only. Just not the type of experience I'm looking for when I go SCing
discussion comment
5 years ago
Spoiler alert: A guy with really dumb ideas, who doesn't back down, is definitely going to get a lot of attention.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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Papi_ChuloMiami, FL (or the nearest big-booty club)
Papi, I don't disagree that a review shouldn't basically be an advertisement for Bambi. On reading reviews -- I am saying everyone reads a bunch of reviews before going somewhere anyway, there's no such thing as someone reading a single review and making all their plans based on that, so no reason every review has to cover everything. Whether you "have to" read 5 reviews or not, most PLs will read more than that anyway, just to cover their bases. There's no reason to cater to "I'll only read a single review and then I'll decide" PLs, because they don't exist.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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Papi_ChuloMiami, FL (or the nearest big-booty club)
I am not sure if the TR-style review hits one of Papi's sore points or not. I highly value a review that gives me insights into particular girls. I value club layout and dance prices and drink prices, but I only need to read that in one review -- I'd bet everyone reads at least 10 reviews before going to a place, no need to see that re-iterated 10 times. By contrast, a review that gives me insight into specific girls -- no details that might get her in trouble, but a recent review that lets me know Bambi the brunette spinner and Zoe the alt girl are amazing, and that Brandy the tall blonde is a ROB, is incredibly useful info to know. More useful than reading drink prices 9 more times.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
There's only one treat my stripper is going to earn. I may have to trick her into it.
discussion comment
5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
CC should take this rickvice.