Girls the don't do VIP rooms and Girls that only do private VIP rooms?

No. Some girls don't want to do something if they feel it isn't worth their time. And doing something else might be. The best example I have is in regards to tip out. My old home club charges is $45 for tip out if we do dances at $25/song. After two songs, we get $5. Now, if we do NOT do dances, we pay $25 tip out. It's a stage rain club, so girls can make bank from one stage set and leave with hundreds without doing a dance and still pay less tip out. At that club, girls actually rejected dances for that reason, especially if it's only a one or two song offer or within the last hour.

Some girls charge double the advertised price of a dance because they feel that's what they're worth. It's not okay, but that's their prerogative.

As independent contractors, we can choose what we feel comfortable doing and what we think we're worth. The first girl doesn't see anything less than $700 worth her time most likely. Fine. That's her thing, so oh well. But there's always going to be another girl who has a different point of view. Also, was it near the end of the night? Maybe she owes the club a lot in tip out and was trying to make it up. Who knows. It's not a ROB tactic though.

That kind of “I only do vip” attitude was common at Palazio —I suspect most of it had to do with the way out-of-proportion pricing on dance vs room.

There were signs up in the dressing room that we aren’t allowed to charge more than $20/dance. Sure, girls could and did break the rules on that all the time and do 3/$100. Others would rather avoid the risk and just not bother with regular dances entirely.

Also, if you prefer a certain demographic of customer, I think the “exclusive” aspect of her ups her value in their eyes and it works well. If she only holds out for high dollar, then not every dude gets to get grinded on or maybe grope her (idk what the club contact rules are there)

Before you roll your eyes at such notions, just remember the threads/comments posted on her about not wanting to be “sloppy seconds” in any kind of way. It’s just how men are. These guys just have the budget to fulfill their fantasies more convincingly.

Fix typo: “...just remember the threads/comments posted on here about”

It may not be ROB, but I think there's a bit of GPS involved because clearly the stripper thinks her worth is more than that of just giving normal dances as compared to other strippers that do.

But that's OK by me if she's hot enough. This game is a hustle and strippers and PLs gotta do what they gotta do. GPS is bad only if she loses money because of it. I had a former ATF, a perfect 10 in my book, that pulled it off on me. I started seeing her at a new club and when I suggested we go get dances she said she only does VIPs. Me being too horny and she being too hot I caved. It was worth it. I didn't see it as ROB because it was at the club rate and her mileage was great as usual.

Kick her in the balls Muddy

The "VIP only" girls does come across as GPS as if doing $20+ dances for a mere 3-minutes or so is beneath her - she's a business-woman and it's up to her how to run her business but the few times I've encountered these girls it's been a turn-off - I only do VIP sparingly so a "VIP only" girl I won't deal with - I do VIP from time to time but usually bc I've gotten revved up during some good dances.

It also depends on what "VIP" is - i.e. in some clubs for example there are $20 low-mileage floor-dances and better-mileage $30 VIP dances - in that case I can see VIP being a preference - but plunking down 100s of dollars with an unknown quantity I'd think most custies would not be into - in many clubs it seems hard enough to get custies to buy dances, one would think being a "VIP only" dancer would be hard to close out sales that way but I assume some girls may be hot enough to accomplish it, but I would also think they may still be losing out on VIP biz by having a "VIP only" biz-model.

But different clubs have different M.O.s - for example a known heavy extras club where dancers are known to deliver, custies in the know may be more apt to bypass dances - or a club with low VIP prices may make it more attractive for PLs to take the VIP plunge sans trial-dances.

w.r.t. the "no VIP" girls especially in a club known for VIP/extras, it's a crapshoot as to whether their dances are any good - IME usually meh/mild but not always the case.

@Waffle na it was sorta middle of the night around 11 (4am close)

and interesting stuff. I have no idea what they are thinking sometimes it can just be odd to say no to money. Then again I don't expect them to be exactly Warren Buffet dancing here either.

Tattletales in Atlanta is known as a VIP only club. The dancers are not into giving table dances. In fact I understand that the club has just done some remodeling adding more VIP rooms and taking away space from the front room.

The club charges $100 for 30 minutes and the standard dancer price is $200 for that 30 minutes although some may ask and get more. It is only a short drive from Follies where a VIP will cost you about half as much but the quality of dancers in the looks department is usually higher than Follies.

I don't patronize Tattletales because I am an old guy and very fussy about who I take to VIP. In fact I only do VIPs about 20-25% of the time that I go Follies. I rarely will ever go to VIP the first time I meet and get dances from a girl new to me. I want the GFE and that ain't gonna happen right out of the gate.

There are some dancers at Follies that ask more than the standard price of $150 and it is getting difficult to find dancers willing to go for the standard price. There are even some that don't do VIPs.

You took her for a test drive and did not like the experience and you are still thinking of taking her to the VIP room?

To each their own, smh, good luck if you do take her to the VIP room.

I appreciate the girls who don't do VIP. My assumption is that non-VIP girls don't offer the level of contact that is expected at that particular club, and I appreciate that they neither waste my time, nor potentially put themselves in an uncomfortable situation.

ONLY doing VIP is another story. Unless you have solid g2 (more on this in a moment), why the fuck would a PL take that risk? I realize newbies can get pressured into doing dumb things, but it's not something I'm doing. That said, back a few years ago I posted my "rules for newbies" article to an SF-local forum, and was DMed by a well-known (and VIP-only) local stripper who liked the article. This particular stripper was a bit polarizing -- half the PLs hated her for being a VIP-only GPS beyoch; the other half said she was freaking amazing in the VIP and loved her. Anyway, we got to talking, and she vented to me, along the lines of, "you guys sit and complain how the club has so many ROBs and time-shavers and miscounters and bad lapdancers now. And meanwhile, I am blowing guys away in the VIP, I'm old school putting in effort that drives you crazy, but you're all angry because I won't waste my energy with $20 dances (of which I make $12)? Shouldn't you be glad there's a stripper who makes sure you leave smiling?" She's kinda got a point. I had had a VIP with her in the past and it was fkn outstanding. The club had gotten worse and worse but she was still putting so much effort in the VIP; was it really so bad that she didn't want to deal with the frustrations of the lap dance room, all to earn $12?

Anyway, that's where g-2 about the stripper helps. I realize I'm out of touch from most of tuscl on this, but it's why I feel yet another review that discusses the drink prices and where the bathroom is relative to the bar, is value-less, especially if the previous 10 reviews all covered that. Whereas reviews that gives g-2 about specific girls -- without getting them in trouble -- is valuable. But SF's PL review culture has always been about the girls instead of about the drink prices, so I'm way mis-aligned. But knowing the girl in the above story is amazing in VIP -- that's the only thing that got me to do a VIP with her, and I'm sure glad I did.

Good stuff guys.

@Cristobol no I meant originally before the dances, thinking about it. Still probably no but some girls out there are so hot my dicks takes over sometimes

As I read through all this, I just realized that I have only gotten a standard Lap Dance once and that was when I bought 2 for me and 2 for Nicespice in Springfield MO. Apparently, I am a VIP or nothing kind of guy and I do not do so until I decide that the girl is fun to hang out with. I don’t care how hot she appears. She has to appeal to my psyche before I will take her back to VIP.

i'm never going to label a girl as a ROB because she has boundaries or goals that she is trying to accommodate by limiting her activities.

With that said, a girl who won't do VIP is usually sending a clear me that she doesn't want to be isolated in a room with a customer. I appreciate the intel and divert my attention accordingly.

Girls who only do VIP may do so for a number of reasons, but usually it's because she doesn't want to get tied up in lower margin activities when she believes that she can stack VIP sales. I don't find this to be any indicator, good or bad, of how her performance will be in the back. Though sometimes those girls are lining up VIP sales, including additional tips for their efforts, precisely because they are good performers. But there are any number of reasons (low costs, lots of regulars, uber hot girl, etc.) why VIPs may be a better route for a girl. These girls only have so many hours in the night to earn, so I don't begrudge any girl who makes a choice like this.

My basic Tuscl rule is never commit to a VIP* without first doing a test drive in the single lapdance option area. I understand the concept of dancers maximizing income vs time. Understand this: We're the ones with the $$ the dancers covet, wasting $20 on a subpar dance is better than blowing solid 3 figures on subpar VIP. Consider this: If dancer truly delivers great performance, then customer will likely upgrade to VIP after 1 or 2 dances.

• I'm assuming a business model whereby room rental or full price of VIP is paid to club staff upfront prior to session. In the former, dancer may stipulate an upfront payment prior to dances. Some clubs have more expensive dances in more private VIP section, but with no time or minimum dance stipulation. In that case, I might go along if I'm picking up good vibes from dancer.

I had to make a run to L.A. to grab some cash. I had been mailing it out for my buddy to purchase bitcoin with, but things had been slow. So I needed to grab this cash, deposit it, and wire it to an exchange and grab some coin that way for a whale back home.

So I bought a round trip ticket CLE-LAX-CLE out on a thursday night and back on a friday, leaving me one day to take care of business. Now of course my buddy was in Ranch Cucamonga and I had to make the deposit in West Covina. I had always heard that the Spearmint Rhino Club in COI was the shit so I had to stop there. I stayed at the Doubletree in Whittier. This is the place to stay my friends...I got a large room with a king sized bed that had a sliding door that opened up to a courtyard with pool and Jacuzzi. No real way for them to keep you out of the pool late either.

So I got into LAX Thursday evening. Ate at a really great Mexican restaurant near the airport and then headed over to Whittier and checked into my hotel. From there, the Spearmint Rhino was about 15 minute drive. I drove over, headed inside. There were about 30 guys or so sitting around at tables...The bartender said they served no alcohol...good think I had Jack Daniels and coke in my car. I hung out for a while and saw about 9-10 girls, but none of them really interested me. I'd say most were 5-7's. Finally after a while (and going to my car and grabbing a few jack and cokes)...I was getting read to leave after having no lap dances at all. I see this beautiful Latina girl in her 20's. She was maybe about 5'8", very athletic with b cups and a beautiful full round ass. her legs were long and strong with beautiful tone. I wanted to kiss her beautiful face. She was tan from being in the sun. I'd have to give her a solid 9. She walks up to me, looking a little sad like myself. She says today has just been awful...No guys wanting to do anything. I told her, I sure am glad to see you. I was about to leave to.
She told me her name and said she was very glad I had come she was about to leave without making any money. I agreed with her and told her, "lets go". She didn't ask me for dances or anything. She told me there were semi-private areas in the back, or rooms that were completely private. I told her lets go private. On the way back, she told me she gets $800 for this. Now I now I could have have gotten her for $400 but I was only there one day and I didn't want to haggle...and I wanted her to be happy too.

She takes me down the hall, inside a room...We sit and talk a few minutes...She gets undressed and undresses me. Suffice to say, she made me very happy. I didn't have any doubts, not even for a minute. And since I paid her so well, she gave me extra time. I was thoroughly satisfied. Up until this time I'd never done anything like this except in Youngstown at the Palace in the Pines in a semi-private booth, though for only about $120 in Youngstown, and not with a super-hot girl.

we finished up and I was ready to go back to the hotel. She told me she came and worked one week a month and made enough money to go back to the state she lived in the rest of the month. She definitely had the goods for it.

Any way....I think if you've been in the game long enough...And tell these girls what's up....For example I take home plenty of strippers at home and sometimes don't come back for days...I've dated a stripper for a year, etc...They know you're hip to the game...I've never been disappointed. And frankly I'm not afraid to not pay them either...You don't put out I'm not paying you any more than what a dance costs and you're lucky if I give you that. But it never comes down to that.
I don't need to test drive...I know the unspoken language I guess.

@max_starr... great review. It seems very honest. Same thing with my home club in L.A. Bare Elegance. Technically Hawthorne I think. I have had many trysts here with some unbelievably hot wimmins! If u know how to pick the right one and treat her well, the world is yer oyster! It's tru wat u said if you are hip to the game and a gentleman with some suave and game your milage will def go up. My friends call me the "Stripper Whisperer" cause I am always adding stripper "sugar babies" to my roster for otc fun n games. And I'm 58 but in shape and buffed and alpha and know how to game these chicas and always take the upper hand. Awesome discussion more guys should read your article.

I almost think it's almost the same psychology as approaching the stock market. You can go.fof the reliable sure customers who will make you a good income on average. The sure thing stocks. A speculative hot stripper is holding out for the big scores. Many nights she hits a zero but she just might land that DJT whale that pays...and then pays later when he tries to bury his past.

shadowcat mentioned the two clubs where both such behaviors can make sense.

At Follies, a girl can make $100+ per hour and not have to have sex, so "no VIP" makes sense there.

At Tattletales, girls are most interested in high dollar VIP and have regulars. A girl can show up, meet two regulars for VIP, make $400-500 or more and leave. Some of them do that. Or, they can just hang out and party with guys for the rest of the time. Some do that.

They are not going to bother hustling $10 lap dances. I do find many will dance if you ask. They are getting a feel if you might go for VIP. Once it becomes clear that is not your intent, they really lose interest.

-->"Girls who only do VIP may do so for a number of reasons, but usually it's because she doesn't want to get tied up in lower margin activities when she believes that she can stack VIP sales. I don't find this to be any indicator, good or bad, of how her performance will be in the back. Though sometimes those girls are lining up VIP sales, including additional tips for their efforts, precisely because they are good performers. But there are any number of reasons (low costs, lots of regulars, uber hot girl, etc.) why VIPs may be a better route for a girl. These girls only have so many hours in the night to earn, so I don't begrudge any girl who makes a choice like this."

Generally agree, although I find myself annoyed anyway. To re-iterate my other point: my local SC forum had a review culture that was more focused on the girls than on club layout and costs. With specific g-2 on the girls, it was possible to know going in that Mercedes was a VIP-only girl who killed it in the VIP, and that Raven, by contrast, was a VIP-only girl who is GPS and phones it in. That local forum and review site is gone, and without that info, I'm not willing to commit to a VIP without a lapdance testdrive at our local extras clubs. At the alcohol clubs it's different, I will have spent an hour drinking with, and groping on, the stripper in advance, and I just go straight to a VIP anyway.

Dancers who only do VIP are not necessarily ROBS, but usually are stricken with GPS at best, and typically give a really lame dance.

Dancers who don't do VIP's can be some of the best dancers. At one of the previous incarnations of one of my past favorite clubs, private dances were $300 for a half hour in the "Champagne Room", while regular dances were $20 / song in the more open lap dance room and $30 / song in the more private rooms which was about 1/2 the size of the more expensive Champagne room.

I asked one of my favorites about a half hour dance, and she said the dances were just as good in the more private room, and she offered $175 for a half hours worth of dances. She mentioned she made more doing a half hours worth of regular dances at a discounted rate than she got from the Champagne room.

It worked out good for me too, 30 minutes worth of dances was about 7 songs, or $210, so I saved $35 dollars. On some slow days she even offered 30 minutes for $150. Also Champagne room was monitored, but the private rooms didn't seem to be. I never once got warned about two way contact in the private rooms, but had a bouncer walk in several times warning both of us when the dancer placed my hands on her tits.

at a few of the clubs i used to frequent one hell of a lot (before I Was introduced to TJ) depended on the cost of the VIP dance. For an example VIP in my experience is at least a 15 minute block of time in a curtain room That is quite private visually

if I didn’t know her level of service I would take her for a simple lap dance... usually nothing more than a $20 dance and make a decision whether or not to go further. The VIP 15 minute block usually cost now between $75 and $110 (although at bare elegance LAX it’s $230.)

Definitely not a fool proof method that has its failures. But I’ve definitely have mostly great times.

Taking a unknown girl that I have not had before straight to the vip dance that costs $75-$230 to for a 15 minute dance is a gamble. I would guess I’m batting probably at least a 600 if I do only that method. not bad odds. but with the with a basic $20 lap dance it improves my chances probably up to batting an 800. (keep in mind I’m still learning the basics.)

Every person is different, every customer is different and every girl is different.

Imo, girls do what they do because x times out of 10 it works. X times out of 10, wannadance works. X times out of 10, I only do VIPs works.

The clubs we work in charge us for doing dances here in this area and dances here in this other area so you want to obviously dance in a way that the least money is taken from you. 🤷🏼‍♀️ That can impact what you offer a customer too, or what you will/won’t do. As everyone knows, sometimes what the club takes from us is just ridiculous. I don’t like going in VIP in every club, lot of variables though.

Everyone is different, some customers have agendas as much as some dancers do, if you don’t like what this dancer offered, you should have communicated further. Maybe she doesn’t want to pay to do regular dances (her agenda) but to you the fee is nominal and much less than spending $700 (your agenda), so you communicate about it and tell her you’ll cover the fee. Wow. Majorly solved the problem. AMAZING!!