Comments by Leonard313 (page 2)

What are you pursuing that is a "crazy long shot"? I don't really understand the question.

I'd set up a dual club in a college town where the male to female ratio is high. One half the club will be topless, alcohol served, 21 and up. The other side would be fully nude, no alcohol, 18 and up, and you'd need a student ID. That would separate the "townies" from the "students"...hopefully avoiding confrontations. It would also give the dancers a choice as to what type of dancing they want to do and for what type of clients. The fully nude club would be less mileage, but you'd need to be comfortable dancing nude and (if the dancer is also a student) potentially in front of your classmates. The other side would be more mileage which means more opportunity to make $$$. However, you'd have to be okay with that type of environment.

I'm not a "regular"...primarily because I can't afford to be one. I usually bring $300-$400 with me to the club, and unless I strike out (no VIP, no extras, or no dancer worth my time/interested), nearly all of the money is gone by the time I leave. But, I'd say some "regulars" actually spend very little. They nurse a couple beers, maybe get a lap dance. They just make sure they are there, routinely. so they establish that relationship. Other regulars probably spend thousands of dollars...paying the dancer's bills, etc... If a regular establishes that type of relationship, a sugar daddy kinda thing, then they could spend hundreds each visit and give the dancer even more to help her with one bill or another. It's all about being the "regular" you can afford to be. If you know you can be happy just showing up 2-4 times per week, having a couple beers, and spending $40 on lap dances...you could be a "regular" for < $75 per visit ($150-$300 per week, $300-$600/month). If you know that you aren't going to be satisfied without VIP/extras, then you might have to be a "regular" that shows up every other week and drops $300/night ($600/month). Either way, it's the same $600/month habit. So, you just have to figure out what kind of regular you want to be for that $600. I don't ever plan on being a "regular". I like trying different clubs. The only advantage to being a "regular" (for me) is if it can lead to an OTC relationship where I can get the same thing I'm looking for in the club, but in a more comfortable environment and for less money (taking the club cost out of it).

I haven't had too many conversations where I actually believed what the stripper was telling me. Usually, if I let them talk long enough, they'll contradict themselves. That's the problem with lying; it's hard to keep the lies straight. The more you talk, the more likely you are to expose your lies. Usually the conversation doesn't last long enough for the dancer to get in too deep into one fabrication or another. But, once, OTC; I had a stripper tell me multiple stories...back to back...at first she had kids, then it was just a son, then the son was in juvenile detention, then she didn't have kids in the final version. She tried to tell me how she just got a new car because of a car accident...some settlement...but then the more she talked, the more it seemed like she wrecked her previous car in some type of incident (probably DUI) and was still in the court system over it. I mean, I get it. Dancers need to stay a bit mysterious. But, pick a story and stick with it! I know I'm being lied to...I don't mind being fed some fantastic story about their life or things like that. It's just gotta be ONE story.

@bobuncle I guess "my thoughts" have always been that any guy can throw $1-$2 at a stripper while she is onstage. But, if you continually put money out there...it shows you're definitely interested AND that you're not cheap AND that you appreciate their stage show. I usually will tip more if the dancer really puts on a good show and/or makes good eye contact, etc... If they just walk around and "phone it in"...even if I'm interested in private dances...I might only tip the $1-$2 to let I'm know I'm interested and leave it at that. The girl I ended up with in VIP did a great stage show. She did little acrobatics and good pole work and all that. She just never made eye contact and you never felt like she was that interested...even after I dropped $4 on the stage.

I told my buddy about it regarding how I was able to find out information about clubs before going there. He isn't much of an enthusiast.

I dunno. On the one hand, it was (agreeing with 59) long-winded. And I missed key elements, like condition of the club. And I wish I was better at remembering dancer names. And, even though I appreciate Pussylicker2's encouragement, I wonder if the dance she did prior to the extras was included in the $200 or if the total was $220. I felt, given her non-rushed interaction that an extra $50 (on top of $200) was initially fair...but later thought maybe I shoulda upped it to $100. But if the total was actually $220 and I only gave her a $30 bump...now I feel like an absolute ass. But, thats just me. I tend to over-tip as a rule. Thats why in most of the thread I was so frustrated about not getting dancer interaction. I was laying down money and the dancers were just going off with a boyfriend or regular or someone else. And that really messes with ya psychlogically...because you start to think you're throwing off a weirdo vibe or are too ugly for even a stripper to take your money. It just messes with you. See...long-winded by nature. ; D

PUA? I swear TUSCL needs to add a glossary or something.

One problem with "air dances"...that I think aggravate many strip club regulars...and I'll admit this does have some "micro-aggression" to it...is this: I think some regular strip club goers look at dancers that do air dances as "rejection". It's like they are "too good to touch you". They are too good looking to even get near you. You know the old adage, "I wouldn't touch you with a 10-foot pole"? Well, air dancers are kinda like that. They are conveying, with they behavior, that you are a dirty old man and horny pervert...and they are some prize that is unattainable and you can only admire from afar. And, it's easier for newbies to accept this, because they see all strippers like this. When I was new to the scene, I didn't know you were allowed to even touch strippers. I thought you had to sit on your hands when they gave you lap dances. Once club goers start to learn how much goes on behind the curtains, and how blurry a line there is between prostitute and stripper...then an "air dancer" is almost a "joke" to a veteran club goer. Nothing against you or anyone else for what you enjoy. To each their own. I was at the club last night and stage tipped more than anyone in the club for essentially "air dancing"...as appreciation for their perforamance onstage. But, I'm not judging the people that didn't nor would I be happy with air dancing in the VIP.

@magicrat First, so she just happens to have to pee? Or did she have pee in her shoe and he noticed it? I've asked strippers if I could perform oral during full service in the VIP. I don't know if that constitutes a "fetish" or if it's a "weird" fetish. I guess, when it comes to oral, I prefer to give than to receive. And, in "pay for play" environments, I've found that some gals are cool with receiving and some aren't...so it's always better to ask rather than get a bad reaction or make them feel uncomfortable.

I agree with Tetra. I think where posts go off the rails is when contributors go from offering their opinions to judging other's. People don't post on here so they can be told they are criminals or pedophiles or psychopaths or sexual deviants or have no game or are mentally unstable, etc... Especially when the members making those "professional evaluations"...could look into a mirror and see that same person with those same issues staring right back at them. I mean, I often will post about mistakes I've made at a club. I just went out last night...made multiple mistakes. I don't mind people poking fun or pointing out that I could have done something differently. We've all left the club with a bit of remorse over what we spent or whether we should have done this or that. I just hope we can still have a decent conversation before the whole thing devolves into random nonsense and users throwing feces at each other.

According to my checkbook: 40 Mostly rent and bowling

They involve RickLeo, a Cowardly Lion Halloween costume, and scat. It's a terrible story and that club had to close because of it.

@DayB I "hope" they don't hurt anyone. I've been in a couple situations where I left wondering if it was a situation where the other party was a victim more so than a willing participant. Those encounters haunt me. I never sought them out, and they were rare (as far as I knew)...but back in the Backpage era...it was an occurrence from time to time...just a "feeling" you had that something wasn't right. Those are the ones I feel the "guilt" about. And those don't occur in strip clubs (at least I've never encountered that situation in a strip club). The other ones are just transactions. I'm paying for a service that is being offered. And the only "guilt" there is religious doctrine (as you're familiar with) and whether I'm putting money to good use that I could use for a better purpose. I think guilt is natural and it's part of the game for both the dancers and the customers. It's something we all deal with and get past in order to pursue these interests. Sometimes it's healthy just to acknowledge that it's there...even if there's no good solution to it.

Is this article "designed" to get us hard? Yeah, it worked. I'm not proud of it.

I'm done with the argument man. You keep posting the same post with different words. You degrade strippers as being screwed up and worthless and then say thats not really what you mean...and then say, "but really, they are when you get to know them and picturing them taking a shit." Then you finish off the post calling me and the OP a psycho for appreciating them. Whatever. I'm a dangerous psycho lunatic who needs to start imaging EndlessSummer having a bad bout of diaharea. Noted. Thanks for the advice Ricky. Endless...please let me know how your bowel movements are going so I can take you down off that pedestal and stop appreciating dancers. It's making me downright dangerous!!

Okay cunselor. Hypothetical legal question. I get to the club. They have a rule requiring that I hand my car keys and coat to the bouncer upon entry. They claim it's for liability reasons, driving drunk, etc.. During the course of the night, there is some disagreement between me and a dancer about lap dances. She claims she gave me 6 lap dances for $180 + tip and I claim that she only gave me 4 and that there was a 5 for $100 special at the time and I didn't tip her because she was trying to rip me off and the lap dances were horrible. She spent the whole time checking her phone text messages. The waitress weighed in that I had only bought 2 drinks since I got there 2 hours ago and hadn't bought any "dancer drinks" or shooters. The manager wanted me to pay $180, plus $20 tip and agree to pay an additional $20 in a bar tab for drinks he felt I "should have drank" in that timeframe in order to get my car keys and coat back. He wanted another $20 tip to the coat check at that time. In other words rather than the $80 I felt I owed, he wanted $240 for dances I didn't receive and drinks I didn't drink, plus tips for those services, or I wasn't getting my coat and keys. To make matters worse, the club had a no cell phone policy...and my phone was in the car. The club had no public phones and the manager refused to allow me to call the police. There was no taxi service and I couldn't call for an Uber. The nearest open business was a motel that was 7-8 miles away. Is this legal?

It was ACCIDENTAL sodomy! She MOVED! Don't put "forced" in the court record. And don't capitalize it! Who are you working for!? This isn't "I Spit On Her Grave Part IV"!! It was consensual sex between Dancer X and Player Y in an establishment where Dancer X was a contract employee. Technically, and we'll have to consult a labor attorney...I don't even know if she's technically an "employee." I SHOULD sue the club. It was dark in there...those VIP booths were cramped. How do you expect a player to properly get his doggie style fukk on in a booth smaller than something you'd find in the kiddie section of a McDonalds?

Ya know what RickyD.... I'll agree to disagree. You have anger issues toward dancers...and I'm dangerous. Doesn't mean we can't be friends. Keep on keeping on my man. If you're ever in the 313 or 734, I'll buy ya drink and we can review a club together and see how our reviews compare. We just can't hang out if the RickLion weirdo is with you....because that dude is creepy as fuk and he'll scare away the bitches.

@EnDless I think hearing from dancers would be really cool. Despite many years of experiences in the club, I think much of what goes on with the majority of dancers is still very much a mystery. And, I think thats based on a few different reasons: 1. The nature of the interaction(s). 2.The transactional nature of the business. 3. The blatant dishonesty, mostly by dancers...but also by clients. First, the nature of the business if brief encounters. Clients don't usually build relationships with one dancer over a long period of time. Dancers move from club to club and ultimately leave the business in a short time period. Second, it's a transactional business. Time is money. Dancers don't get paid to come into chat rooms and talk about their feelings with a bunch of dudes. Every second they are in here is a second they could be arranging OTC with a client or buying new stripper outfits or resting from a night from hell they just had the night before. Third, I've found strippers to be almost unnecessarily dishonest. Part of that is self-protection. It's a job that requires a level of protection by keeping one's private life separate from one's personal life. Clients also sometimes have to keep their private affairs separate from the clubbing. However, I've found that strippers...especially those that are involved in OTC sometimes take that dishonesty to incredible lengths....to the point that they can't keep their stories straight and will end up telling you multiple, contradicting stories if you interact with them long enough. And when people get into that level of dishonesty...they tend to lie about everything...not just the big things. That creates problems on forums when people interacting with you can't even trust that anything you say is even remotely true. But it would be really cool to hear from dancers. There are a LOT of questions that I know I have and friends of mine have had over the years...and we know better than to ask. Not only do we know we aren't likely to get a straight answer...but dancers usually hate it when guys ask questions about dancing...kind've a "rookie move". They're there to make money, not participate in a documentary.

Sooooo....I'm in the clear....or not in the clear on the rape charge? And where am I on that upcharge? Are you saying, 'technically', the entire verbal contract is void because it's an illicit act? So, now I don't even have to pay the $240? <------She is NOT going to be happy with that answer after I just gave her a shocker! Sounds like so far I'm still in limbo in criminal court...but doing well in civil litigation.

You can tell when a person can't defend their BS...when they repeatedly make every attempt NOT to defend their BS and simply attack every other thing that was said. So once again...you claim that strippers who are insanely hot will go out with average guys...because they are damaged goods...by the fact that they are strippers. That is your dingbat, idiotic preposition. It is absurd and indefensible and there is no known record of it existing anywhere in known history. Your attempts to defend this idiotic notion are to: 1: Call the OP psycho and in need of help. 2. Call me psycho and in need of help. 3. Call the OP a stalker. 4. Call my posts stupid. 5. Call my analogies stupid. 6. Repeat 1 through 5. So, let me try to spell it out for you..as plain as I can...no analogies to confuse you or shiny objects to distract you... A beautiful, hot, 20-year old...with a body that you could bounce a dime off...isn't going to give you, me, or the OP the time of day...unless we pay her. It doesn't matter if she was molested as a child...if she is so stupid that she's borderline retarded, or if she has a meth addiction. It doesn't matter if her stepmother is emotionally abusive or she lives in her car. She isn't going to give us the time of day...unless we pay her. Thats the game. For the OP to think that it's not, is delusional. For you to think that her life is so miserable that I'm "romanticizing" her or "putting her on a pedestal"...is delusional. This is, and always will be TRANSACTIONAL. When you run out of money, she will move back into her car. When you stop paying her, she will move back in with the ex boyfriend that beats her and pimps her and keeps her supplied with meth. The real "joke" is that you think I live in a fantasy world. I've experienced women that would gladly trade places with strippers. Are you kidding me? Strippers have a real job...a paycheck...a bouncer at the door...a place to change...a locker. They actually get to keep most of the money they make. You don't think there are escorts and masseuses that would kill for a job like that? And the real sickening thing is...at the "heart" of your criticism...isn't an attack on the OP or me...you're attacking strippers. You have this "inner hatred" for them. You hide it well with your little comments...but at the heart of your criticism is you think strippers are ugly. You don't like them. Maybe they've done you wrong or mistreated you...maybe you don't like having to pay for it...whatever the reason. You have this "anger" inside towards them. So, if the OP or I "put them on a pedestal", you need to pop in and quickly tear them down. You need to remind everyone how worthless they are, how imperfect, how damaged. You need everyone to know that they aren't as beautiful as they look....that it's all an illusion. Why? Why is it so important for you to tear them down? Why do you need us to be reminded that they are damaged and not as attractive as we want to believe they are?

Shh... Icee is in the legal library working on my question.

I dunno. I never really looked for hookers when I was there. I was there to bowl so I was busy practicing and bowling and making money with my balls...versus spending money with my balls. I just heard the strip clubs were insanely priced...and you couldn't do anything ITC. I'm sure you could set stuff up OTC. And, I'm sure there were many areas throughout the city where there were "ladies of the evening"...just the rare time I just wasn't really looking for it.

I'll bite. <------ Not a threat. So, Counselor Icee. If I pay a stipper to fuk in VIP and we agree on $240 + tip. But...we're both getting carried away because I haven't been laid in like 4 years and she is imagining that I'm Rick Duggan....and by TOTAL ACCIDANT (legit)....my cock slips out and then slips into her brown kitty... 1) Is that rape if she didn't give me prior anal consent? Is accidental anal not an expected occupational hazard in this situation? 2) Can she turn around and upcharge me for anal when that wasn't what we agreed upon? I mean, in the court of VIP sex services, does the man always have to be in control of his Johnson? Like in hockey, where the player is responsible for their stick and will get a high-sticking penalty even if they accidentally hit someone. Or, does the stripper bear some responsibility to help guide his Johnson into the proper oriface? What if I was all lined up and she exhaled suddenly and misaligned during a crucial thrust? How is that my fault? Thank you in advance.