discussion comment
14 years ago
Sure Dancers are also acting, but when you cross over into something that unbelievable then you either are thinking the customer is an idiot or you are presuming that he realizes that this all just a game.
If a stripper has gone six months without then it means tht either she or the club gives no extras whatsoever and she is extremely picky about meeting anybody OTC. Now suddenly for you she's going to for you dump all of her standards and rules. Yah right.
discussion comment
14 years ago
So that dancer realizes that she can save a bunch of money by doing her own nails over hiring a professional. Nobody is going to give her big tips because her nails are extra nice.
Definitly spray tan is a waste of your money.
And as for the rest, her prices seem steep, but even a receptionist has pretty much the same expenses in relation to looking good for work.
discussion comment
14 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
Obviously the girls who do 'extras' are going home with more money. This of course results in jealousy and resentment as it puts pressure on them to offer extras too.
But 'stealing'? Not by any definition that I can come up with. They are offering a higher value service. Now maybe if you presume that the same number of guys would show up with the same quantity of money to spend whether or not they expected to get a sex act you might have the start of a rationale, but honestly guys bring more money if they think that it can get them more.
On the other hand, in my local clubs it is generally presumed that every girl can be negotiated for extras in the VIP room. It is just a question of how much for a particular act and particular girl. Nobody would call the girls whores though, it is just mean.
discussion comment
14 years ago
Honestly I can see why a club manager would want to have a standard song length for the club. They have to make sure that the hour gets covered and it works into their revenue model. If one dancer asks for longer songs or shorter songs it could mess up the works. And it isn't just the dancer on stage that is affected, it is also the lap dances and in clubs that measure the VIP in songs them too.
So based on comments so far I suggest the following rough standards:
less than 90 seconds = 'very short songs'
90 seconds to 2.5 minutes = 'short songs'
2.5 minutes to 3.5 minutes = 'normal length songs'
3.5 minutes to 4.5 minutes = 'long songs'
over 4.5 minutes = 'very long songs'
So for example with my recent review of SR COI with various free cupons, 3-for-1 and 2-for-1 offers after admission I paid $40 for 7 'songs', but the songs were somewhere around 90 seconds. So the cost would actually be about 23 dollars for an 'average length' song topless.
article comment
10 years ago
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trixxiformer stripper is now an internet slut
When I was advising a club owner about a new club I recommended going without djs and definitely against letting the dancers pick the music.
The DJs are an extra piece of overhead and eventually will start playing their own games to squeeze more out of the dancers, either in tipouts or sexual favors. All this does is cause more dancer problems.
As far as introducing the dancers. Let the dancers do there own shout-out 'Hi everyone I'm (name)' That is going to be far more fun than the DJ saying the same dumb routine over and over again.
As far as announcing specials. That is completely counterproductive as customers will know to sit on their hands until the special is announced. So don't announce specials at all. Instead have small signs at the front desk and on some of the tables saying 'ask your dancer about the secret special'. That gives the customer and dancer a reason to talk beyond 'wanna dance' and that will certainly result in more business than the DJ saying something over the PA system goes.
So what else is there? Nothing really.
What you do want is consistent song length, but most live DJs have limited ability to do that. Instead pick your song list and have a skilled audio editor create consistent length versions of each song, adding branding voiceovers at the end of songs shorter than the standard length (say, three minutes) That way you can have a consistent pricing and revenue model and customers don't have to wait for a 'long song special'.
article comment
11 years ago
I've been advising a new club manager and it is surprising how much conventional thinking there is...doing things the way everybody else is doing it or the way they presume it has always been done. I've been trying to get him to look outside the box by thinking from things from the standpoint of his customers and his dancers.
Have a fee at the door but have some value to it. Include a free topless dance (the slogan I wanted to give this was 'Free Samples!') or a free drink setup. Presuming a non-alcohol place don't give a tiny cup half full of ice, bring them a full chilled can or bottle even on premium energy drinks!. You save on labor, equipment, and cleaning, and the guy thinks he's getting a great deal paying five dollars for something that cost you on average one. Don't have a high dance price if you are constantly going to have to offer specials. The customers will quickly learn to sit on their hands until the special and the girls won't bother either. Let the existence of specials be something the dancer negotiates wtih the customer one-on-one. Which brings me to maximizing the interaction between the dancers and customers and minimize the involvement of anybody else. There is no bartender or waitress or hostess (remember, full cans only) only performers and managers. The girl that helps greet you at the door and walks you to your seat says "I'll be on stage in just a moment, would you like to maybe have a private dance after that?". The girl that brings you your drink says "I'll be on stage in just a moment, would you like to maybe have a private dance after that?". Guys are naturally more attracted to what they can't have compared to what they can. That way the dancers have the guy's attention all to themselves.
In the big picture you can set up a culture in the club where this is a real job with real customers that need to be taken care of or that this is a big racket where horny men are suckered out of their money. If that attitude takes hold then the dancers will also be looking at how to sucker the club the managers how to sucker the dancers and everybody looking at how to cheat the owner.
article comment
11 years ago
We have a congress where one party is trying as hard as possible to deny access to contraception and abortion and you wonder why prostitution is still illegal.
There are real social costs to prostitution...disease, pimping, human trafficking, child prostitution, impact on property values etc. Most places try to have a legal form that they can watch out for those things so the underground prostitution will be smaller and easier to focus on. Most US cities unofficially do the same thing. Depending on the jurisdiction they will put little to no effort at stopping massage parlors, strip clubs, or call girls in order to focus on streetwalkers.
If we ever have a radical change in prostitution laws it will come, as it did in Canada, from the Supreme Court, our most libertarian institution.
Decades ago the Canadian Supreme Court said that the government had no right to regulate private sexual acts between consenting adults, including the simple act of paying for sex. The government responded with a range of well-intended acts against living off of the proceeds of another's prostitution, operating a bawdy-house, and communicating an offer offer of prostitution. Most of those were recently struck down as too broad and de-facto preventing someone from making a living from a legal activity.
Now the US Supreme Court has also ruled that there is a fundamental right for adults to have privacy in their personal lives (Griswold v. Conneticut) and that the states cannot make sexual practices between adults illegal (Lawrence v. Texas). Could they take the next step that the Canadian Supreme Court did? I wouldn't hold my breath, but it is more likely than any other US legislature beyond Nevada doing it.
article comment
11 years ago
A bit long winded but thorough.
As for Alucard's worries, follow one simple rule and you would be safe. Do not wander from the immediate vicinity of the clubs. TJ never had the same level of violence as say Nuevo Laredo, the area around the clubs is tightly patrolled, and the visitors there are not a part of the conflicts between smugglers that is the source of the violence you hear on the news. So walk across the border to the cab stand, take a taxi to Adelitas, have sex, get back in a cab, say La Linea, get out and walk back to the US.
article comment
11 years ago
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Papi_ChuloMiami, FL (or the nearest big-booty club)
Squirters are rare and even rarer for one to let loose in a club, because of the cleanup.
article comment
11 years ago
Tijuana never had the same level of drug violence as other cities. The reason is that the border there is so tight that the traffickers operate elsewhere.
TJ is plenty safe if you obey one simple rule: don't go wandering off. The tourist areas are tightly policed, dollars are accepted without hassle and nearly everybody is minimally bilingual. Wander off and it is easy to get lost and in trouble. So walk across, get a cab, straight to the clubs, get a cab back to the linea (border).
As far as the travel details go I would add one simple suggestion. Unless you are planning on returning well past midnight but before 5AM, use the trolley. You can get a hotel in a great many more places, save on parking, and the San Ysidro station is right at the walking entrance.
article comment
11 years ago
I agree with lopaw that too many women expect their men to be mind readers, which usually leaves men just with relying on what would feel good to them and what they see in porn, which is always played up for the camera.
article comment
11 years ago
As to the original article. Everything that local government does eventually boils down to two things...personal safety and property values. Now, since resources, particularly prosecutors, courts, and jails are in short supply inevitably the decision is made to focus on the form of prostitution that is least likely to affect property values or cause downstream problems with personal safety. Inevitably streetwalkers are the number one target. If clubs and massage parlors get too obvious about what is going on inside then pressure builds on local politics to 'clean up the community' because of the effects on property values. Typically the lowest priority, unless there is a violation of child prostitution or human trafficking, is escorts.
Working in the background on this are moralists who see government as a tool for their moral mission. They too can exert influence it it become too obvious what it going on, so there is another need to be a bit low key.
The final reasons to keep things low key is that paying for sex is somewhat shameful both for the dancer as having to rely on that as her only marketable skill and to the guy as his only way to get sex. Also being somewhat on the sly about it is sexy. Think of sexy dialogue in the movies. It is all about innuendo and double meanings.
article comment
11 years ago
First of all, on Human Trafficking. Not all prostitution qualifies by a long shot. Here is the dictionary definition of it.
"organized criminal activity in which human beings are treated as possessions to be controlled and exploited (as by being forced into prostitution or involuntary labor)"
Now, an controlling relationship does not simply qualify. It has to be organized criminal activity and the person has to be treated as a possession, not simply an unequal relationship. This is one case where the club may be a better format than some others since I have not seen a club owner who regards the dancers as possessions. Many may have a loser boyfriend that is trying to leech off of them, but the club owner regards them as workers freely employed.
article comment
11 years ago
If you were a cop you could make 15 arrests per day, but could you get 18 convictions? Getting a conviction on a prostitution charge is not easy, particularly in a strip club environment. The dancer can claim that the sex was free and consensual and nothing to do with payment for the dance and is the customer going to contradict her? To get a conviction you are going to have to go undercover and actually get them making the quid-pro-quo deal.
And then they have to testify to it in court, in public, under their real name and be subject to cross examination. Not fun.
Besides, police have only so many resources and as a result tend to concentrate on the cases where the most community harm is being done...streetwalkers, underage prostitution, human trafficing, etc. What mutually consenting adults are doing in strip clubs, massage parlors, or after connecting on backpage in a motel room is pretty harmless, almost desirable, by comparison.
article comment
12 years ago
Regarding the 'research' there is a puritanical subset of feminism that simply cannot accept that a woman might choose to trade on her sexuality for profit. It is the same group that thinks that ALL prostitution must be 'human trafficing' because it couldn't possibly be voluntary.
So to them when a dancer rubs her breasts in my face I must be sexually abusing her through some sinister exercise of male power over her. It seems to me that some sort of power is causing all those twenties to fly out of wallets and it isn't a power that the men have over the women.
The report also seems to regard it as commonplace certain harrassing and questionable business practices and having the dancers being abused by managers and owners. These practices were never as universal as they are presented here and now that lawyers have found that dancers can be a fruitful area for workplace lawsuits they are becoming even less so.
Still, I have long felt that customers should be concerned that clubs are being operated in a socially responsible manner and having management sexually harrass the dancers definitely does not qualify as OK. In the bigger picture though it is shortsighted by owners and managers to allow that. Clubs have to compete for dancers and the club with the fewest hassles will be able to attract the best dancers.
article comment
12 years ago
Most of this is just plain common sense but I will talk about 'Rule 1" as we get lots of dancers griping about cheapskates.
Next shift you work. ask an empty chair for a lap dance. Cosy up to it, stroke it's arm sexily and whisper sexily about how much the empty chair will enjoy it. Now when the empty chair refuses your offer to give it a dance you get angry about why it is in the club in the first place?
Now the guy who just comes to chill and drink and enjoy the atmosphere may be no better than an empty chair, but he isn't worse either. He paid his cover and he paid for his drinks and as far as the club is concerned he has paid for his right to be there.
article comment
12 years ago
@ermita_nights
But isn't that what the whole sales pitch on the VIP room? It's much more private...you know...?
having done some tests you can certainly so the essentials of a lap dance in a 3'x4' space, but particularly will full height walls it can be pretty claustrophobic. And for some customers (see Alucard's comments) having a bit more than the minimum space is an important thing.
One thing I have been looking at in the 'real' project I am working on is how do you make a VIP room seem more welcoming without making it larger. A hook to hang your hat? A safe place for the dancer to put her purse and hang her dance costume? A waste can? A squirt bottle of hand sanitizer or lotion?
article comment
12 years ago
@AlwaysVIP...Well, as I said, it is easy to make a 2000 square foot bar work. That is only about average for a neighborhood bar. Adding a tiny stage and a tiny lapdance area is gravy. Making such a place work without the booze profits JUST on the dances is the challenge.
article comment
12 years ago
@twilight12 Yes, this is a design exercise, not a real club. You seem to have a very different idea on the importance of VIP than Alucard.
Of course I had ideas on lighting, sound, seating, and acoustics. Look at the renderings included in my profile. It isn't really a part of what I wrote about though because a 2000 sf club does not present any particular challenges to sound and lighting compared to a more standard size club.
As to 'real' clubs as I wrote I am working with an owner who has one under construction right now. He doesn't want me blabbing all over the place what his new club and some of the nonstandard things we are doing as it is in a competitive market. Maybe after it is open he will approve of me writing about the club and the design process.
article comment
12 years ago
Real stats vary of course on time of day, local demographics, etc. and for the small sample size of a single club, highly variable. So for example the number regarding the average time spent in the booth can swing broadly in the one direction if a few hardcore VIP people show up and in the other direction just as fast if a bachelor party shows up. The broad numbers that I cited are planning figures. Architects use planning figures all the time because we are designing buildings that have yet to be put into use.
But the point is you can't just say 'the only thing that matters....' because these things all interact with each other.
article comment
12 years ago
@Alucard...An interesting perspective, but there is always a trade-off. The booths in this mini design are 5' on each side, or 25 square feet. That is pretty small, as is everything else. To add two feet in each dimension would make a much more comfortable 7' on each side, but that would take about twice the floor space and result in the club only having half as many booths or spend more on rent. Either way the cost per minute of the booth is higher. Fewer booths means fewer dancers. Lets say to really keep a dancer happy she would be able to be selling some sort of private dance half of the time. there are 13 booths in this design, enough for a maximum of 26 dancers. Cut that to 6 with bigger booths and you can have a maximum of 12 dancers...not good. Try to squeeze more in and you run the risk of a dancer having sold a dance to a customer but there is no place to do it...unhappy dancer and frustrated customer.
Then what fraction of a customer's time is spend in private dances? It depends of course on whether the guy is dribbling out ones at the stageside, slowly sipping his one drink at a table, or immediately grabbing the first hot girl he sees for a half hour VIP. But a good average might be one third of their time in private dances. That means that you need two club seats for every private seat. That cuts both ways. If you have too many booths for club seats there won't be enough space for PL's to sell to. If you wind up with six booths and 12 club seats you may have the ratio right but it means that your club can serve an absolute maximum of 18 customers at once!
This is what I am meaning by the need for a synergy between design and management. It also means that even though you think you only care about one thing just about everything matters to make that one thing suit you. For example you might think that you don't care about proper lighting and cleanup facilities for the dancers...until you see a dancer with bad odor and ugly makeup!
article comment
12 years ago
@Alucard. Yes on the real work, no so on the fantasy exercises for articles here. As to the club that I am currently designing for real, once it opens it will be the owner's decision whether I ever say anything about it.
Oh I certainly agree that management is essential, but design an management go hand-in-hand. A skilled manager will realize if something in the club's design is preventing its effectiveness, and a bad design can present headwinds to effective management.
For example how many overhead people are needed? Is there a way to do with fewer? Is there a way to offer customers more choices? Are there typical ways of doing things that just make life harder for the dancer, more complicated to the manager, and add nothing for the customer?
If a 2000 sf club needed multiple bouncers, a bartender, waitresses, a bathroom troll, a DJ, etc. it isn't going to be able to make money.
article comment
12 years ago
There is often a long wait for cars but a shorter yet still substantial wait for walking. My last trip I had no wait for walking, but it was 2 AM!. One thing you will find is that the bar girls usually are more often bilingual than the street girls.
article comment
12 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
Sounds more like a discussion topic than an article. But if you are getting bored with clubbing then you are wasting a whole lot of money for little gain.
I would suggest one of the following extremes:
1. Massage Parlors. No gimmicks and no drama. You go in, pay, get a girl, follow her to a room, she spends the time pampering you. No small talk if you don't want it, no ownership issues, etc.
2. On line dating at one of the more casual-encounter rather than find-a-soulmate sites. Lots of the unexpected, sometime not in a good way unexpected, but not routine.
article comment
12 years ago
$20 at the tip rail is a waste of money. She's going to come around asking for dances anyway. Definitely start with a dance. Consider it an audition. No point in wasting her or your time if her moves aren't good or her boobs aren't your favorite type or her skin isn't firm/soft the way you like it. In addition she gets a chance to evaluate your handling. Are you too rough, too soft, or whatever?
If at the end of the dance you think it is worth following up on THEN give her a twenty and ask if she can spend some time talking. If things continue to work well ask her when her hours are. Then say that you are usually free at (some time other than her usual work hours) and would love to spend (longer, quieter, more relaxed, etc.) time with her.