Why Don't Police Do Anything About Prostitution/Escorts/Massage Parlors? It's a Joke.
Leonard313
Michigan
Let me start this out by saying a couple things:
1) I am NOT "holier than thou" by any means. Read my reviews, my discussions, articles, etc...
2) A part of me doesnt want to see Police take action. I know many of you don't as well. God I cant imagine the embarrassment and fear associated with being a victim of a sting or whatnot.
But one thing that I've been thinking of for some time is why sex for money is so easy when it's illegal. I was naive for many years...went to strip clubs, never thought a dancer would sleep with me, even for a price. At least not anything reasonable. I mean sure, rich folks could purchase $2000 escorts or go to the Bunny Ranch and pay $400-$6000...but not us average guys.
Then, you find out what strip clubs really are. A brothel...a brothel that gives women "choices" whether to have sex with customers (except in Tijuana). A brothel that simply provides a booth or room for rent...for a house fee...or a brothel where guys can arrange for OTC stuff. And brothels aren't the end of it. Craigslist (pre-Craigslist killer), Backpage, Redbook, personal ads...all simply advertisements for prostitution. $60-$600 gets you sex. And then there are massage parlors. I thought the "happy ending was just a myth; a punchline for asian jokes. But it's not. There are more massage parlors selling sex than those that pretty much just offer a up front, legitimate massage.
So this leads to my question. If I were a cop, here in Anaheim, I could make 15 arrests per day without even really trying. But contrary to the relatively few stories on TV or Dateline NBC...or the few stories here on TUSCL, these women and johns rarely ever get caught. And even if they do, they are usually let go with nothing but a misdemeanor ticket or nothing at all. Pimps, hookers, escorts, johns...they all get questioned and unless theres drugs involved or the girl is underaged or assaulted...nothing happens. I mean, everyone on here when they hear a guy talk about his extras he got a certain club...they think, "don't say that! You're gonna get the place shut down!" Really? You think cops in Detroit don't know guys can get laid at the strip clubs of Romulus and Dearborn? You think cops across the US don't know the girls on back page and rebook are selling sex for money? Hell, I read a post on backpage a month or so ago where a cop was posting and warning girls of a certain john that was apparently robbing escorts in the area. They know. You think they believe all those massage parlors are just giving massages?
And thats the joke. Like immigration...a crime that goes on that nobody cares to stop it. As easy as it would be to bust numerous prostitutes and johns and pimps and get them off the street...cops don't bother. Unless the girl is underaged...they don't care. And I'm not saying they "should"...but it annoys me a bit when I see johns getting busted, their cars impounded, paying fines...meanwhile the providers get nothing. There was a pimp in Detroit that was responsible for setting a girl up with a john that killed her. He testified against the murderer and was never charged with anything...just released. I dont even like seeing those guys on dateline getting busted for soliciting underage girls for sex. I'm not "pro-pedophile"...but I don't like to see laws applied to one group and enforced while those same laws apply to other groups and are not enforced.
And I guess the question for fellow club goers is, are you "really" worried about a sting or getting busted? I mean, when I first got extras at a club...the first couple times....I was worried that I'd be in there and the cops would come in and bust me. But not anymore. Nowadays it would barely enter my mind.
1) I am NOT "holier than thou" by any means. Read my reviews, my discussions, articles, etc...
2) A part of me doesnt want to see Police take action. I know many of you don't as well. God I cant imagine the embarrassment and fear associated with being a victim of a sting or whatnot.
But one thing that I've been thinking of for some time is why sex for money is so easy when it's illegal. I was naive for many years...went to strip clubs, never thought a dancer would sleep with me, even for a price. At least not anything reasonable. I mean sure, rich folks could purchase $2000 escorts or go to the Bunny Ranch and pay $400-$6000...but not us average guys.
Then, you find out what strip clubs really are. A brothel...a brothel that gives women "choices" whether to have sex with customers (except in Tijuana). A brothel that simply provides a booth or room for rent...for a house fee...or a brothel where guys can arrange for OTC stuff. And brothels aren't the end of it. Craigslist (pre-Craigslist killer), Backpage, Redbook, personal ads...all simply advertisements for prostitution. $60-$600 gets you sex. And then there are massage parlors. I thought the "happy ending was just a myth; a punchline for asian jokes. But it's not. There are more massage parlors selling sex than those that pretty much just offer a up front, legitimate massage.
So this leads to my question. If I were a cop, here in Anaheim, I could make 15 arrests per day without even really trying. But contrary to the relatively few stories on TV or Dateline NBC...or the few stories here on TUSCL, these women and johns rarely ever get caught. And even if they do, they are usually let go with nothing but a misdemeanor ticket or nothing at all. Pimps, hookers, escorts, johns...they all get questioned and unless theres drugs involved or the girl is underaged or assaulted...nothing happens. I mean, everyone on here when they hear a guy talk about his extras he got a certain club...they think, "don't say that! You're gonna get the place shut down!" Really? You think cops in Detroit don't know guys can get laid at the strip clubs of Romulus and Dearborn? You think cops across the US don't know the girls on back page and rebook are selling sex for money? Hell, I read a post on backpage a month or so ago where a cop was posting and warning girls of a certain john that was apparently robbing escorts in the area. They know. You think they believe all those massage parlors are just giving massages?
And thats the joke. Like immigration...a crime that goes on that nobody cares to stop it. As easy as it would be to bust numerous prostitutes and johns and pimps and get them off the street...cops don't bother. Unless the girl is underaged...they don't care. And I'm not saying they "should"...but it annoys me a bit when I see johns getting busted, their cars impounded, paying fines...meanwhile the providers get nothing. There was a pimp in Detroit that was responsible for setting a girl up with a john that killed her. He testified against the murderer and was never charged with anything...just released. I dont even like seeing those guys on dateline getting busted for soliciting underage girls for sex. I'm not "pro-pedophile"...but I don't like to see laws applied to one group and enforced while those same laws apply to other groups and are not enforced.
And I guess the question for fellow club goers is, are you "really" worried about a sting or getting busted? I mean, when I first got extras at a club...the first couple times....I was worried that I'd be in there and the cops would come in and bust me. But not anymore. Nowadays it would barely enter my mind.
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38 comments
If I remember correctly... I believe there was one federal agency that was busy wire tapping a NOLA escort agency while the 9/11 attack was in progress.... and then priorities changed.
If someone wants to pay for sex, I do not believe that should be a crime by itself. However there are those among us who wish to keep the status quo and make it much harder for ordinary guys to get sex. I believe these are the prudish so called moral religious people who like the idea that the only people that should be having sex are married people who are married to each other. Everyone else can be arrested and put in jail or fined for violating their belief system.
On the other hand relationship can develop and things can happen just like outside a strip club with regular girls. They are all human after all. I hope they are human. If I was meeting aliens disguised as human females, that would be weird.
As far as arresting everyone involved in an illegal activity, that doesn't necessarily sound right to me. If you arrested everyone for every illegal activity they did, everyone would be in jail. That is a huge waste. I believe you could even lock up all the police as well because I bet every single one of them went at least one mph over the speed limit while off duty at some time in their life or did something illegal. Did it hurt anyone? Probably not.
Enforcing stupid laws is a waste of money. Protecting and serving the public means stopping violent criminals before they maim and kill. Stop the thieves who are so bold nowadays, they actually rob police vehicles.
Of course this probably means in any worst case scenario that happens, don't count on the police being there to help you. Get a gun if you want protection or take your chances. I don't need a gun to protect myself from a couple of people having sex somewhere. I might need a gun if an organized crime ring and their leaders were running a prostitution ring or other organized crime was collecting vast sums of money and they were doing hits on anyone who blew a whistle or spoke out. Arresting the stupid people feeding the mob might scare the people but it doesn't stop the mob. The mob just keeps operating. In some cases, I wouldn't be surprised if keeping things illegal was making the mob operation more profitable.
Cities tolerate clubs. Most towns fight them tooth and nail. In a small town near my home one man has been fighting the town for about 6 years trying to open a strip club. The town has passed restrictive zoning, denied building permits, and blocked every effort. Finally a judge ruled in his favor, ordered the town to allow construction, and grant a liquor license. I'm sure the cops will ride herd on this club when it opens looking for any violation. Politicians act in funny ways when trying to project an image of wholesomeness at the small town level as well as the national level. And yet politicians from Wilbur Mills to Anthony Weiner have acted just like us. Pathetic Losers and horny old men. It's just that few of us can admit it publicly in our holier than thou Christian society.
And then they have to testify to it in court, in public, under their real name and be subject to cross examination. Not fun.
Besides, police have only so many resources and as a result tend to concentrate on the cases where the most community harm is being done...streetwalkers, underage prostitution, human trafficing, etc. What mutually consenting adults are doing in strip clubs, massage parlors, or after connecting on backpage in a motel room is pretty harmless, almost desirable, by comparison.
As for mjx and others...I'm not arguing that they should get prosecuted. I think most of us would agree legalization of pot and prostitution would probably solve more problems than it would cause.
The "issue" is the double standard. The issue is cops running prostitution stings and "catching a predator" and that kind of thing...the whole time they are ignoring escort sites and strippers...and giving prostitutes a slap on the wrist. There was a country in Europe (I think Iceland) that made prostitution legal "for providers" but ramped up penalties for "Johns" (or users of the service). How is that remotely fair? Either society accepts it as a part of society, or they don't. But having sympathy for the woman who sluts herself out so she can afford drugs while putting a sex starved married guy in a position where he has to wear an ankle monitor or register as a sex offender...I mean really?
California just passed stricter laws on human trafficing...states are in races to make "sex offender" a more and more espansive term. And the result is, we have more and more and more sex offenders. If a stripper gives a dude a BJ for $25...she gets fingerprinted and released and is giving $25 BJs the next day. Meanwhile the male customer is fined hundreds of dollars, spends a night in jail, has a court appearance, and is a registered sex offender for a minimum of 15 years. Really?
I'm not advocating crackdowns on the women. Hell...make it legal and get the tax money for it. Regulate the crap out of it so its safe for chrissake! But whatever you do or don't do...its pretty damn unfair to penalize men and then act like the women are "victims". Hell...I had 2 separate instances where strippers stole money from me...and multiple instances where I got hustled. If anyone is a "victim" in the scenario...its not the chick making $600 a night simply flashing what god gave her!
It is the oldest profession in the world for a reason.
It occurs in every country and more so in many other countries IMO.
It is also legal in many if not most 1st world countries (Canada, France, Brazil, etc.).
Famous and powerful people partake in it – including top politicians.
The problem is not that consenting adults are partaking in it – the problem is that they try to make it a crime.
hmmm, I think people say that about this region. It certainly is not Detroit or California. I'm not saying you can't get extras either. I'm just saying and being truthful that I don't see anything like that going on when I visit. I visit on the weekend when clubs are crowded. By extras I mean bj's or FS. I really do not see that going on. the clubs I visit have more strict policies than a few years ago. Well one is about the same but Platinum fired a lot of dancers a couple of years ago for not following rules. I thought it sucked but I thought they must be protecting themselves in case the cops are watching too closely.
http://www.wyff4.com/news/local-news/lau…
It is a matter of opinion Sir.
Sex between to persons of legal age and in a consenting situation - whether money is involved or NOT - is NO ONES business. It is ONLY between the persons involved in the sexual activity.
L.E. has more important subjects for their ever declining resources that trying to regulate the sexual activities of consenting persons who are of legal age.
I don't care what you may or may not do sexually, and my sexually oriented business/activities are none of your business Sir. Thank you for your attention.
Do you think the cops are just clueless? Maybe they have a really horrible internet connection? Maybe Backpage is blocked by their servers?
So that mayor got busted, publically humiliated, and probably thrown out of office...yet a fat 39 year old woman is offering sex for $80 right now in Greenville...what are the odds the cops show up, bust her, and put her picture on channel 4? Yeah...about the same odds of me going to a strip club and not finding at least 2 strippers willing to blow me for $150. Not good odds.
I'm not hatin man...I used to be like you. I used to think the only guys gettingt laid at strip clubs were bouncers, DJs, club owners, and the occasional young guy with a 6-pack and charming personality...but it was so very rare...like seeing a cuckoo bird. Fast forward 10 years...if I want head and neither of the first 2 chicks I proposition "do that"...I'm offended and leave to go to a different club. What's the point? Sitting my a stage all night getting hustled for $10 drinks and $30 air dances while some drugged out ho is giving you the stink eye because you're not tipping her $5 bills for her elaborate stage routine which consisted of her taking her clothes off, laying on her back, and spreading her legs while she looked about as interested in you as she is in becoming a productive member of society?? Yeah! Sign me up! I love walking out of club down $250 with blue balls. That's a great investment. NOT!
But walking out semi buzzed, out $400 and knowing that I just blew my load in a tight 19 year old who if I met at a regular bar wouldn't give me the time of day...at least "sorta" worth it.
1. I've always felt (pun intended) that what normally goes on in a strip club is light weight prostitution. Just lap dances alone are a customer paying a dancer for the use of her body. That much isn't sex, but it's a lower form of pay for play.
2. It's the age old story of trying to legislate (and subsequently enforce) morality. Many agree that law enforcement resources would be better used elsewhere.
Steve Martin: "I damn thee!"
EXACTLY!!!
Leonard313, if you wish to avoid getting arrested for engaging in sex with a pay-for-play provider - STAY away from Sex businesses & STAY away from Sex Workers. IT isn't Rocket Science!!!
As for escorts, with the internet it's not so easy to track someone. You can post something and not be found and you can post something and be caught right away. There is just too much crime going on that I don't think the man power is out there to get everything needed for conviction.
Prostitution is also become an internet thing but, then there are the girls in club that will do more ITC and OTC. I've been at clubs where the bartender goes around informing everyone when a cop walks in. In the long run their could be bigger issues going on and the time, money and energy to get someone caught in the act could not be worth it at the time.
It still leaves me wondering when you go into these places why the dancers always ask if you are a cop. Do you have to say yes by law if asked? It's just something I find funny.
I'm not complaining...unless I start trying to bang 16 year olds....I have less chance of getting arrested for paying for sex than I have of getting arrested for tax discrepencies. That's the point...the police don't care.
My point is...if they don't care...then let's end the shirade. Let's stop the "act".
Allucard, I don't mind getting busted for solicitation if the other person gets the same penalty for prostitution. She chooses to suck me for $50...I choose to give it to her...we both are unfortunate enough to be doing it during a rare raid and get caught in the act....we both get fined $250, registered as sex offenders, and spend a night in jail. OR...the cops tell us both to get lost because they have more important things to worry about.
What ISN'T fair...is the guy in plastic zip ties getting his hearing date scheduled while the gal is a "victim". Of matter of fact...if peeing outside makes someone a sex offender...shouldn't every single stripper be a sex offender?
Maybe that's why so much of the sex trade gets away with its doings. Not enough cops, & the ones we have keep going after petty crimes more than anything else.
Idk, but most large scale prostitution busts that I see involve streetwalkers and drive up Johns. Now every so often we will hear about a BP or CL sting as well, but truth be told I don't think that they are that common, especially since it requires a lot of work to catch a few people. Again though it makes for nice headlines. ;)
I guess I just don't worry about it as I only source my fun from strippers and mostly through takeout. And if I was ever to call an escort again, it would only be one who was well reviewed on TER.
But lastly Leonard, with respect to the comments about strip clubs, your experiences are local. Parts of CA, Detroit, Providence, Miami, Houston and some other areas have clubs that are more or less brothels, but the vast majority of strip clubs in the U.S. are far less open than that. Calling all SCs brothels is a ridiculous stretch.
But from the clubs I've went to... the only difference is the price. $80 in Tijuana. $150 in Anaheim. $200 in Detroit. $400 in Vegas and most everywhere else. $1000-$4000...you write the rules anywhere.
When I first started out...I thought differently. I thought of it as an "artistic experience" and you practically sat on your hands while a gal danced an arms length away then smiled as you gave her your $20. But then...you start to touch...they don't mind...and you get the nerve to ask for more. And if you got the cash...even if that particular dancer won't play for pay...she'll point you to the dancers in the place that will.
Its just common sense. If a guy asks you to strip to your panties and he'll give ya $20...and you're okay with that...the next logical question is "what would ya do for $50?"
I agree with most folks here...legalize it, regulate it...let's stop pretending already! But where I get annoyed is the unfair treatment of "johns" versus the treatment of escorts/dancers/prostitutes as "victims". Victims!? Damn...where's the sympathy for us fellas that just dropped $400 at the club and got nothin to show for it other than a used condom and a need to make sure we have a blood test done to rule out any "potential issues".
In San Diego, they even prevented a place from getting shut down.
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/al…
I think in San Francisco, they leave the good places open and have to bust a few here and there just to keep the general public happy.
My 2 cents.
Anyway, trying to stop prostitution is like trying to stop the tides with a bucket. LE has better things to worry about, like actual crimes that hurt people.
1) I'm no more "pro-pedophile" than I am pro rape. I'm just saying that a lot of effort seems to be spent to "gotcha" guys...but if a meth addicted whore is blowing guys for $25 and spreading disease...its "sad" and she's a "victim of the streets". No she's not. She's a whore that has made bad life decisions and chooses to use her body to make money that she can then snort or sniff or inject. She's no more a "victim" because of her drug addiction than a john is a "victim" of his sex addiction.
2) "Illegal" immigration is a terible crime. It has led to an explosive prison population, fuels murders and the drug trade, and robs the country of resources. It undercuts supply and demand in the workforce and leads to a reduction of the middle class and expansion of poverty.
3) a brothel provides women for sex services and takes a cut for providing the physical location. A strip club meets that definition to a tee. The only difference between the Landing Strip and Hong Kong Gentlemans Club is it costs more north of the border. The house still takes a cut...the bouncers take a cut...and its the same penis with a condom going into a mouth and a vagina. The only difference is in Tijuana you can't talk much unless you speak Spanish...and in Detroit its more rushed and cramped. Same services...a whore is a whore regardless of language.
And finally...while I believe prostitution should be legal and regulated...all crimes have victims. There aren't "okay crimes" and "not okay crimes". Or at least there shouldn't be. Either prostitution is a crime or it isn't. Either we arrest both parties and punish accordingly, or we don't. My whole point was that its a joke...because it is so prevalent...yet people act all "scared" they might get busted. Police don't care about hookers or strippers or johns or even pimps. They pretend to care about sex traficing...and they care about sex with kids...but like the previous poster mentioned...cops are paying for sex too...
Of matter of fact...I talked to an escort once...asked her what the worst experience was ever with the profession. She told me it was when a cop showed up, called up 2 buddies, then proceeded to repeatedly rape and beat her..then steal her money. Cops generally believe they are above the law. Is that a "victimless crime"? What about the Johns that are mugged and assaulted by escorts and their pimps? "Victimless crime?" Or was it "their own fault"? Is it not also the escort's "own fault" for getting raped? My point is...these sexual encounters are all about crime. Drugs, assault, rape, sex slavery...all "part of the game". So its nowhere near "victimless". I saw massage parlors with asians just off the boat...being forced to have sex. I've seen girls so addicted to drugs they were shaking. Girls who nearly cried during sex because their vaginas were so sore.
These things aren't black and white; right or wrong. They are very grey areas
1) escalate the clientel. Current clients are lawbreakers and sex addicts and morally challenged...only. legalizing brings in more mainstream clients that may still be "morally questionable"...but not as dangerous. Like strip clubs...you still get the creeps....but you also get the college kids and bachelor parties and old lonely guys.
2) Allow women the ability to easily report problems. Now a woman has to admit being a prostitute to report a crime. Legalizing it means she's just a woman with a job and can report problems.
3) protects men...making sure the women are disease free...allowing men to come forward when they are robbed or assaulted.
4) it allows law enforcement to focus on areas of real crime...kidnappings, sex slavery, violence, rapes, child exploitation.
Legalizing doesn't kills the roaches, but it turns the lights on and makes them scatter.
That's my take anyways.
Smart escorts just hang up on anyone who tries to discuss what sexual acts will occur during the time together. Judges with any respect for civil liberties are very leery of the idea of an agreement being made without it being stated in writing or at least orally.
Police can call up an escort...lay the money on the table...and when she starts to go down on him...put the cuffs on her. She is offering sex for money. Its that simple. There's no fancy "tricks" to keep you from getting busted. The reason it never goes to court is its just not worth the time. Arrest her, fine her $150, put her back on the street. She's not gonna fight it because she doesn't want to stay in jail and she'll only lose in court. The legal system doesn't want to make a huge case out of a non-violent low level felony/misdemeanor.
And I'm fine with that arrangement...just don't be harder on the "Johns" than you are on the hookers. The hookers get a slap on the wrist and a warning. The Johns get their cars impounded, are fined $300-$500, and end up on a sex offender registry...and still have to go before a judge and probably lose their wife and kids and job/livlihood. Meanwhile the cops know that hooker by name and see her posting her ads every single night like clockwork. Its silly.