Comments by FONDL (page 9)

A lot of these girls' appearances change quite a bit over the years. I remember really liking a girl who I met and spent an evening with on a business trip. The next time I vitised that club, maybe 6 months or so later, I didn't recognize her - her hair was entirely different and she had gained some weight. Also if you're drinking that can cause your memory to be significantly flawed.

Cheap perfume, smoke and sweat. Just wouldn't be the same without it. Incidently, the PA legislature is wrestling with a public places smoking ban law. The current version would exempt bars and private clubs, so I'm not sure what effect it would have on strip clubs, but it sounds like places that serve alcohol would be exempt while NA places wouldn't unless they were set up as private clubs. But what's interesting is that that law would also prohibit cities from enforcing anything more stringent than the state law, which would reverse parts of the smoking ban that Philly passed a couple years ago. There's a lot of opposition to smoking bans at the state level. There are also a lot of small tobacco growers in rural PA (who tend to focus on the cigar wrapper market.)

6. Don't ask at all. I've been to clubs where they aren't allowed to ask you at all. They just sit and talk and it's up to you to ask. Some girls do that even in clubs where they are allowed to ask. Personally that's the approach that I prefer.

I think there's a very wide range in earnings between the best and worst in all these fields, and that no one branch of the sex profession is necessarily more or less lucrative than the others, it depends on the girl and the place.

Social acceptance by whom? I don't think adult film actresses are accepted at all by most people, in fact they may be the least socially acceptable of all your categories.

Sorry guys, obviously I meant to type "censorship." But I'm not sure if my error was a misspelling or a malapropism.

Maybe she prefers having someone else provide the customers, the place of business and the security and not having to worry about any of that stuff the way an independent has to. Let's face it, most of us could probably work independently and run our own business and maybe make more money but how many of us want to go through the hassle?

Godfather, you say that "Political correctness runs amuck in our country." Which of course is the answer to the questions you raised in your initial post. There is nno logical answer to any of this stuff, it's all about political correctness. It's censureship masquerading as sensitivity imposed on us by the enlightened elite. Hey I like that sentence, how'd I do that?

Well said, snowtime. I agree completely. Shadowcat, just remember that not everyone is going to like you (or me), that's their problem not ours. Keep posting, I for one enjoy most of your comments.

My wife and my ATF have become good friends and are very fond of each other. They exchange emails, we have lunch or dinner together 15-20 times a year (sometimes her BF comes along, who my wife also likes), my ATF gives my wife massages a couple times a year, and they sometimes gang up on me. There isn't much that I've done in strip clubs that my wife doesn't know about. She doesn't approve but she hasn't thrown me out either. I'd say we have a good marriage and I have no desire to have sex with anyone else.

"There is no try. There is only do and not do."

"There is no try. There is only do and not do." -- Yoda (not ours, the Star Wars one.)

"There is not try. There is only do and not do."

Ozy, I think the thing that bothers some of us is that this board didn't used to be like that (except for RL, who most of us put on "ignore" the day the feature was introduced.) Welcome back, AN, it's good to see you haven't left for good. Where have you been? I was afraid you got to visit the Wheel and decided to stay there forever.

I have 2 comments about the "outing" - (1) I have been arguing for several years that we should all be more discreet here, but nobody else seems to agree with me. Some of you have even argued that it's the indecretions that attract you to this site. So why single out this particular situation, seems to me it's just one more of a great many examples of the indescretion that you all seem to enjoy. Unless you wish to argue that it's all right to disclose information about women but not about men. (2) Indescretion has become our way of life in this country. Some of the most popular TV shows are all about divulging secrets. As I've said before, we've become a nation of busybodies. Gossip is the national pastime. So if you don't want something to become public, don't tell anyone. Because anything you say is going to get repeated, especially if it's juicy. I wish it wasn't that way but it is, and there's nothing any of us can do about it. But I think the latest round of insults and name calling preceeded this specific episode. We seem to have acquired a lot of new people in the past year who are ignoring the unwritten rules of decorum that most of us have followed in the past. Guess we'll all have to dust off the "ignore" button again.

Casualguy, I agree that it's a huge waste of taxpayer money for LE to harass strip clubs etc. and IME most LE people agree. But they have to respond to complaints from citizens, and that's what usually leads to the harassment. And I know you have a hard on for bible thumpers but they're not the only culprits who complain - in my area it's primarily other businesses in the area. And local businessmen, who are usually well connected politically, tend to carry a lot more wieght than the occasional bible thumper who typically isn't.

It would help if those whose primary reason for visiting strip clubs is extras would stop insulting those of us who have no interest in that. Different people go to clubs for different reasons. Why is that so hard for some people here to understand?

I'm by no means an expert on this subject since I've never gone looking for high contact. But it seems to me that almost every state has a place or two where very high contact and more is available. As far as it being fairly routine, I've always thought that Tampa and south Florida had the most places like that. But I've never been to any clubs in either Houston or ESL.

I too enjoy hearing from the women who post here. I don't always agree with everything they say but I enjoy hearing their opinions. But I also understand why some don't stay long, there's a lot of anger and hatred experssed here and much of it is directed toward strippers. Which really puzzles me - if someone doesn't like strippers, what are they doing here in the first place? I thought this was a site for people who enjoy the strip club hobby, and how can you do that if you don't generally like strippers?

I agree with Yoda, it was economics not bible thumpers who forced prostitution to go underground. And it still is. Just the other day I read an article in our local newspaper about the sentencing of two Chinese girls who were working in a local massage parlor that was raided recently. The article said the place was raided because of complaints from local businesses. I think that's why the streetwalkers were eliminated from most upscale downtown areas - the hotel industry didn't want their guests exposed to them. It's all about the dollar - cities are trying to attract tourists, and those families from Indiana don't want to see streetwalkers outside their hotel. Strip clubs have always existed in downtown areas. The growth in the last 40 years has almost all been in city fringes, small towns and rural areas. And Yoda is right, the sex used to occur outside the club, especially in the parking lots. I don't think raids on places like massage parlors or their equivalent were nearly as common years ago. As people have become more upscale there's less tolerance for such activities. Years ago people minded their own business much more than we do today. We've become a nation of busybodies - everyone thinks they have the right to tell others how to live.

Book Guy, I'm not sure. But when I was young every city had an area where street walkers hung out and openly solicited. And every small town had a house or at least a woman or two who were known to ply the trade. I think those things are largely gone now. Prostitution is still very prevalent of course but it's less obvious now, you have to look for it, which is what I meant. Most cities no longer tolerate street walkers and small town whore houses have largely disappeared. The public is less tolerant of those things today.

It all depends on what you're looking for. It's not the fact that she's a stripper that gets you into trouble, it's because you're pursuing outside sex and trying to keep a committed relationship at the same time. IMO, sooner or later that will always cause problems because it's dishonest, and dishonesty has a price. Actions have consequences, it's only a matter of time.

Every club and every dancer is different, just like we all are, and I don't think any of these generalizations apply across the board. No matter what you want to find, it's out there, just keep looking and don't settle for less.

My first visit to a strip club was in Boston's Combat Zone, which would have been around 1963. Those clubs were pretty much like the Baltimore Block is today. The first time I ever saw a nude dancer was in Montreal a few years later. The first time I saw nude dancers in the US was in Atlanta not long after that. I didn't encounter lap dances until much later. I also remember that when I was a kid in the 40s and 50s the touring carnivals had side shows that included strippers but I was too young to see them so I don't know what they were doing but it was probably pretty tame by comparison to today. I also recall that in those days prostitution was pretty common and nobody much cared. I'm guessing that strip clubs didn't really become commonplace like they are today until cities and towns started cracking down on prostitution. Until then the only strip clubs were in large cities.

Shek, or what it's worth, I have shared personal information with Shadowcat which I asked him not to divulge here. And he never has, for which I am grateful. He probably wasn't aware that you would mind him referring to your situation without indicating who he was talking about. Frankly I don't understand why you'd care.