Comments by FONDL (page 26)

Jablake, just to clarify, in my example the high mileage place that gets the most attractive dancers is high but LEGAL mileage. The extras place, which is obviously even higher mileage, has the least attractive dancers of the 4 clubs mentioned. I think a lot (maybe most?) dancers don't much care how high the mileage is as long as it doesn't cross the line into extras. Just like most probably don't care whether it's nude or only topless. The money is the more important criteria in deciding where to work.

Thanks, Chitown. I'm under the impression that PA has a 5-year rule too and that 5 years is the most common interval, but I don't know that for a fact. But what about the girl who uses a fake ID to dance when she's only 16 or 17? Could Shadowcat get in trouble for porking her in his club?

I prefer slow. I don't want it to seem like an impersonal athletic event. Evilcyn, I think some girls are intentionally reluctant to get too sensual, they don't want to get that intimate with customers, they prefer to keep it as impersonal as possible. Which probably costs them a lot of money.

The nastiest thing I ever did was walk out of a club owing a girl $100 - she excused herself before collecting with "I'll be right back" and of course wasn't. I got really pissed and walked out. I gave her the money the next time I saw her. She was a regular who went bad on me.

I like one of us to be soft and the other hard. And I have a strong preference who is which.

If "I'll be right back" means just the opposite (that's been my experience), then maybe all these expressions mean the exact opposite? Anyway my most recent fave said to me on several occasions, "You're my favorite customer, and I'm not just blowing smoke out my ass." Turns out she was, which wasn't a big surprise. But we had fun while it lasted, which I think is the most you can ever expect.

I always find it amusing when I say something silly just to be facetious and guys here agree with me! Anyway, here's my real answer - the only times I've ever given a gift was when I had a regular at the time, and I can only recall that happening twice. The first time I gave her a nice bracelet. The second time I took her shopping and let her choose her own gifts, and then we went out to dinner. And frankly I think that's the right way to do it - if you don't have an OTC relationship then there's no need for a gift, except perhaps a slightly larger than normal tip and/or something small and inexpensive. Big bucks for a girl who doesn't trust you enough to get together for dinner? No way. That's for PLs.

I never go anywhere on New Year's Eve. It's the most expensive night of the year to go out. It usually isn't much fun because there are so many obnoxious drunks around and everything is too crowded so service is lousy. And the last place I want to be at 1 or 2 am that night is in a car on a highway.

I sometimes think that "stripper shit" is misnamed. Probably because I once got a ton of it from a young woman who wasn't a stripper and never had been. Maybe we should call it "young woman shit" instead. Strippers aren't the only ones who can give you a line of BS in hopes of getting money or something else of value in return. There are lots of non-strippers out there doing that.

I've had 3 different email addresses for years. Originally it started out as one for personal friends, one for business, and one for monkey business. But eventually it got all screwed up. Now it's basically one for TUSCL, one for my ATF, and one for everyone else (which is a small number.) I'm not much into email.

I had a very close friend in high school who told the most outrageous lies on a regular basis. And when he got caught at one, he could never understand why others were so upset. I eventually came to realize that he thought everyone told false stories and he didn't see anything wrong with it. I'm not sure he even knew the difference between telling the truth and lying, I think he believed his own lies. Given their backgrounds, I'm guessing that a lot of strippers are like that. They've probably been lied to all their lives and think that's the way everyone is. Lying becomes automatic.

The last club that I frequented regularly had a separate room (a very nice room with it's own bar and stage) that they rented out for private parties - they did a ton of bachelor parties there. One night a week they opened the room to women and featured male dancers. I wonder if male customers were welcome? I seriously doubt it. Years ago some of the secretaries where I worked used to go to another clubs regularly to see male strippers - the place featured male dancers once a week. I wonder if male customers were allowed in on these "ladies nights." I bet not. We may all claim to be opposed to sexual discrimination, but I bet most of us practice it in our own personal lives. How many of us considered members of both sexes equally when choosing a mate? How many of you single people date both sexes with equal fervor? In fact the very idea probably seems pretty silly to most of us.

If you're uncertain what gift is appropriate, why not just avoid clubbing until January?

"Romanticism is for dreamers" - that's me. I like romanticism, in fact if I had to choose one or the other I'd rather have romanticism without sex than the other way around. I used to look for romanticism in strip clubs, in fact one of my biggest complaints about strip clubs is that it's so hard to find. I'm pretty conventional in my idea of romanticism - dinner with candles, wine, fire in the fireplace, more wine, soft romantic music, holding hands, hugging and kissing. Yum!

Lopaw, I'm curious, how common is it for strip clubs to exclude unattached women (eg. women unaccompanied by men)? I can't imagine most strip clubs excluding anyone that has money. But then again, I'm not sure I've ever seen an unattached woman in a club other than those who were either obvious off-duty dancers or close friends of a dancer. But don't you agree that most strip clubs attempt to appeal PRIMARILY to heterosexual men? Seems to me that's their target customer group, and if they're well run they're going to do whatever they think will appeal to that group. They may inadvertantly attract other customers too, but they're still going to focus on the target group. Just like any other business would.

There are different kinds of SS, it isn't all alike, and some of it is fun and some of it is annoying. The fun kind is where the girl is telling you stories to entertain you, it's kind of a game to see how much she can BS you and how much you can figure out, and some girls are very good at it. It's a form of playfulness and flirtation if done right and it can be very enjoyable. The annoying kind is when it's just an obvious attempt to get more money out of you, or where she's complaining about all her troubles most of which are her own dumb fault, like having a total loser for a BF.

Shadowcat, I actually know of 2 clubs where the only bouncers are female. In fact neither clubs have any male employees, they're run entirely by females. Seems to me that the whole point of a strip club is to provide a fun place for heterosexual males. I personally don't have a problem with women in clubs, but I understand a club wanting to be careful not to offend guys who do. I wonder how welcome we would all be in a Lesbian bar if we went in alone unaccompanied by a female? I'm guessing that we'd find a pretty hostile environment in many such places.

Insted of the groom throwing the bride's garter, the men would all stuff dollar bills in it. Instead of a band, there's be an obnoxious DJ. And the music would be too loud. There'd be ugly bouncers making sure the guys kept their hands at their sides while dancing.

Thanks, Chipitin. I'm always amazed that anyone reads my posts, let alone remembers them. Maybe I should start paying more attention to what I say. Nah, that would take all the fun out of it.

Seems to me that a lot of strip clubs have web sites that show this information. And TUSCL has links to a lot of those web sites. Or you could even call and ask.

Seems to me that whenever we've discussed this issue in the past that there were a lot of comments like Raincoat's, guys saying how much they enjoy seeing some hot girl from the audiance get onstage or go to VIP and undress. But suppose the girl isn't hot and is the exact opposite. Does that effect how welcome we would feel toward her? Are we just as welcoming to ugly girls as customers, or are our feelings about sexual discrimination in clubs partly determined by how hot the girl is? And don't clubs routinely practice sexual discriminatation against guys? How many male dancers does your club have? Seems to me that most clubs don't even hire male bartenders or waiters. Just loser DJs and bouncers.

Bones, the word "discrimination" is a symonym for "choice" - the only way to avoid discrimination is to choose everything randomly, eg. draw a name out of a hat for who you want to hire or marry or be president. What you're opposed to isn't discrimination, it's UNFAIR discrimination. And that's the problem, everyone has a different opinion of what is fair or unfair. And people have legitimate different opinions of how deeply the government should be involved in deciding what is fair or unfair. There's often a conflict between being fair to one group vs. fair to another. For example, say a person running a business thinks he (or she) could do better by limiting the business to a single sex establishment. Should he (or she) be allowed to do so? Which is more important, to be fair to the excluded sex or to be fair to the owner in allowing him (or her) to maximize income? There's no simple answer to that question, and it's one that government is often ill equipped to answer.

Shadowcat, I may be wrong and it probably varies from state to state, but I'm under the impression that a girl isn't considered underage when she's dating someone near her own age. It's only when the guy is a lot older that it's a problem. It's OK for 19 year old guys to date girls 17, but when you're in your 60s it's considered bad form, you have to wait until they turn 18 and they get a job stripping at your favorite club. Which raises an interesting question - I wonder how many girls use fake ID to start stripping before they're 18? And could customers get in trouble for playing with someone like that?

I'm getting together with my ATF sometime between Christmas and New Year's Day - she's coming home to visit. We'll probably do some shopping so I can get her something, followed by lunch or dinner and off to the airport. It's won't be quite like getting naked in front of a fire, but it will be fun.

I'm getting together with my ATF sometime between Christmas and New Year's Day - she's coming home to visit. We'll probably do some shopping so I can get her something, followed by lunch or dinner and off to the airport. It's won't be quite like getting naked in front of a fire, but it will be fun.