Comments by FONDL (page 24)

Has anyone here ever been to this club? I've driven by it a thousand time and never stopped in because (1) it isn't open during the day, and (2) you have to buy an annual membership on your first visit, which is expensive ($30?) and still pay a steep admission price each additional visit. But it has the reputation of being the best club in MD because it has the highest mileage and the best looking girls and a very friendly atmosphere. I'm afraid if I ever set foot in the place I'd never leave. It's a small nude BYOB LD factory type place. Locals refer to it as Wagon Wheel (or simply The Wheel) which was it's previous name.

Thanks guys for reminging me of my all-time favorite movie and my favorite movie character - Holly Golightly. The scene where she tosses Cat out of the cab in the rain, then goes back looking for him, is my all-time favorite movie scene. They don't look at all alike but something about my ATF always reminds me of Holly Golightly or maybe it's vice versa. A party girl with a vulnerability a mile wide - gets me every time, I can't resist it.

I agree with Shadowccat, it all depends on your expectations. Both nice guys and bad boys usually end up with what they really want. But if you're a nice guy pretending to be a bad boy, you won't. Seems to me that there are 2 types of relationships - cooperative (win-win) and adversarial (win-lose). Just as there are two types of people - nice people and bad (meaning people who enjoy being naughty) people. Nice people prefer cooperative relationships and bad people prefer adversarial ones. So if you're a nice guy, find a nice girl and have a cooperative relationship. If you're a bad boy, find a bad girl and have an adversarial one. Sounds to me like the problem some of you are having is that you want a bad girl but not an adversarial relationship. It won't happen, it doesn't work that way.

Have you looked into any of the clubs in the Poconos? Pleasure Dome near White Haven is a great club. There are also one or two others that are supposed to be similar although I've never been to them. There's also at least one nice club in Allentown. I think Pleasure Dome is nude but I'm not sure, it's been awhile. Private dances are done in monitored private rooms. You can make a lot of money there. It's pretty high contact. Incidently, when most of us here say "high contact", we mean that guys are allowed to touch the girl almost anywhere (eg. play with boobs) and that the girl will usually rub against the guy until he has an orgam (sorry if that's too crude for you but that's generally the whole idea of a high-contact club.) "Medium contact" means boobs are off limits but there's still a lot of contact. "Low contact" means just that, there's little physical contact allowed between dancer and customer. "Air dance" means no contact at all. "Extras" means that some of the girls are engaging in sex acts. You'll see all of those terms used here fairly regularly. If you want to know more, feel free to email me - [email protected] (that's fondL, not fond one. I'm a little freer with information on email than I am here.

The only two that I've been in fairly recently (about 3 years ago) were Erotic Cafe and Playhouse Lounge, both near North Philly. I've been in a buch of others too but so long ago that it isn't relevant. I really like Erotic Cafe, it's the kind of place that I prefer - small, laid back, moderately priced, private dances in a decent semi-private room, mileage fairly high but nothing illegal (that I know of) and open during the day. I didn't care for Playouse at all - a high presure place with mostly foreign girls. It also has the reputation of girls performing illegal acts but I don't know that for a fact. I don't recall if either place is fully nude but I think they both serve alcohol (sometimes the alcohol vs. nude laws are local or county ones, not state ones.)

Wondergrl, we do sometimes get people here who pretend to be someone other than who they actually are, so we're sometimes suspicious of newbies who appear to be too eager. By all means keep posting, you sound like fun. (Assuming you're not a 12 yo kid pulling our chain - LOL.)

Wondergrl, my guess is a lot of girls first try dancing because the idea of it attracts them for a variety of reasons. They like the idea of getting naked and having guys drooling over them, they enjoy dancing, the lifestyle sounds exciting, etc. But like most jobs, eventually the novelty of it wears off and reality sets in. And that can happen fairly quickly because it's a tough job - management usually isn't very supportive and are often assholes, they get tired of guys pawing and propositioning them, they get tired of the weirdos (and yes there are some) they meet in clubs, they get tired of the rejection (and there's usually a lot of that), and it's hard work. There are also a lot of risks, drugs and drug dealers and other criminals are common in a lot of strip clubs. By all means try it if it interests you, but go into it with your eyes open.

The smaller places (and they're not all dives) are usually more casual with a more laid-back atmosphere and lower prices. From a dancer's perspective they usually have lower tip-outs (which means you don't have to earn as much to take home the same amount) and often have more of a local blue-collar crowd. Other than that you can't really say much because there's so much variety, both in smaller and larger places. There's not much correlation between mileage and size of club (although the highest mileage clubs are usually smaller.) Nor is there much correlation between attractiveness/friendliness of dancers and club size. I think the first questions you should ask yourself is do you want to dance nude or not? And do you want to do private dances in a back room or not? And how much touching are you going to be comfortable with? Girls often have strong preference in those three areas, and that's what often determines their choice of clubs. In some clubs the girls make most of their money dancing on stage, and private dances either don't exist or little physical contact is allowed. In other clubs they make it doing private dances in a private or semi-private room and there's a lot of physical contact. That difference might be your first cut in choosing a club. Have you visited any clubs in your area? What did you like or dislike?

Wondergrl5, you sound exactly like the kind of girl I look for in a club. You should have no troube doing well as long as you can keep from developing an "attitude." If you look like you're enjoying yourself and are friendly, guys will flock to you. What part of NJ are you from? And what type of club do you think you'd prefer - upscale or more of a neighborhood type place, large or small? Personally I think new girls are better off starting in smaller neighborhood type places but I admit to being biased because that's the type of place I like. I'm in the Philly area and am familiar with a few of the NJ clubs nearby so maybe I can help. I think there's only 1 NJ person on here regularly (NJPete.) And don't worry if you get flamed here, just ignore it, there are always a few people like that on any board. Most of us here are nice guys and welcome comments and questions from dancers.

Jablake, let me explain. When I was in high school and college, I had a serious relationship with a very attractive girl who ultimately dumped me for a bad boy. I became very bitter over the experience and started playing the bad boy role, which I did for years. I had some sharp girls but was never happy, because I was an asshole and deep down inside I knew it. I didn't start being happy until I dropped that role and went back to being a nice guy. And what I learned from that experience is that I'm not interested in the girls who are attracted to the bad boys, they're shallow , immature and uninteresting no matter how good looking. Later in life I used to chase the almighty dollar and compare myself to others. But eventually I matured enough to realize that's a no-win game, because no matter how much you have there's always someone else with more. I didn't truly learn to be happy until I realized that the happiest people are those who want what they have, not those who strive to have what they want. Money isn't the source of happiness, not even close. I no onger measure success, mine or anyone elses, in terms of money. I think that's the most important lesson I've learned in this life. I hope someday you learn that too.

I've hung out with a couple of strippers who were gorgeous but dumber than a fence post, and lost interest rather quickly because they were boring. My ATF is probably the smartest stripper I've ever met. Nuff said.

I've avoided this discussion largely because I disagree with the premise. In my experience nice guys ultimately finish first. Or to put it another way, the meek shall inherit the earth. IMO they already have. The nice guys end up being hthe happiest. Ignore that at your own peril.

So then you both agree that relationships with strippers often go through fairly predictable cycles, regardless of our political views?

Looks or mileage? Neither. As long as looks exceed a certain minimum threshold, then for me it's all personality and intelligence. If there's decent mileage too, then that's just icing on the cake.

Didn't we address the whole subject of our role playing in another thread not long ago? As I recall we all agreed that we did that and enjoyed it. (Except me, of course, who kept insisting that it's all fantasy, that we're all role playing all the time. But sometimes I'm like that.)

Wow, where have I been? I missed all this fun stuff. Here's some belated replies to comments that were aimed my way. "FONDL, as for the fatal flaw of democracy, if you really mean democracy then the fatal flaw is that 50.0001% of the people can vote to take all the posessions or the other 49.9999% and it is totally democratic." AN, it seems to me that is what's been happening in our country for the past 50 years or so, so I agree with you. But I don't think that and my fatal flaw are mutually exclusive, seems to me they've been complementing each other - the activists and those who suck on the government tit. The two are really two different ways of saying the same thing. AN, as you probably know, scientific method involves two things: a hypothesis and an effort to disprove it's opposite (called the null hypothesis.) Seems to me that those are are both present whether we're talking Christianity or evolution. I personally don't see any conflict between the two - for example the Bible by it's own admission is a series of parables not meant to be taken literally, thus the millions of years described by the evolutionists and the week it took God to create everything can be seen as one and the same time period. And Jesus was a historical figure, there's no question of that. Does anyone honestly believe that everything came to be purely by chance without some guiding force at work? Clearly there are laws of nature that have been guiding evolution for eons. That's a scientific fact. So where did those laws come from? Choosing to label such things God doesn't make them any less scientific. And if you follow sub-atomic paticle physics at all it appears that science and religion are merging. As they should. I think it's inevitable. Einstein understood this a long time ago. To get back to the original topic, my biggest reason for opposing smoking bans and other such laws that the proliferation of attempts to legislate civility is undermining respect for law in total. We have so many laws today that laws don't mean anything anymore, they have little moral suasive power. And laws that aren't adhered to voluntarily by most people are unenforcable. The paradox is that the more laws we enact, the more lawless our society becomes. Do we really want to live in a lawless society?

I actually think that the decline in civility is our biggest problem as a society - it's a significant contributing factor for almost any other major problem you can identify, while at the same time it makes it more difficult to arrive at reasonable solutions which usually involve compromise of competing interests. And I do think the popular media are largely responsible. Now back to your regularly scheduled strip club.

David, you must be going to some really downscale clubs if the girls have to pay an out/house fee. Do they have to bring their own Sears catalog too? (You old guys will get that.)

I'm with Chandler, and there are already too many cows in most clubs. Moooooooooooo.

Quimby, I used to really get around, mostly on business - a couple years ago I identified 120 different clubs I'd been to in answer to a question here. Unfortunately I don't get around anymore since I retired. It's a lot harder for me to go clubbing now and I haven't set foot in a SC in more than 2 years. I've gotten into the habit of spending my money on massages (the legitimate kind) instead.

They get a premium because they're willing to do stuff that most girls wouldn't do. There's a shortage of good dancers, which is why many clubs have little choice but to hire girls who shouldn't be dancing. That shortage translates into higher earnings, just like it does anywhere else where there's a shortage of qualified people.

"'What happened to all the nice guys?' The answer is simple: you did." David - great quote, I love it.

Klee, you can play with boobs at Wagon Wheel (aka Players Club) or most of the block-type places (eg. Sherrys's Showbar) - that's about it in the Baltimore area. You can probably also do it with some of the girls at Gentlemen's Gold Club in VIP if you don't mind spending a ton of money, but it's not officially allowdd there.

I have no particular interest in feet either but I do prefer a dancer in bare feet, mainly because the silly shoes look so stupid. If you're going to get naked, get naked - feet included.

Actually, I blame the popular media for glorifying rude behavior. That's not a political statement, just an observation. But what the heck, let's make it political - the popular media is controlled by Liberal elitists who enjoy mocking traditional values and are too dumb to realize that they're destroying our society. Or maybe it's intentional.