Comments by FONDL (page 46)

If the market really tanked and stayed down for an extended period, I'd probably get a part-time job, not cut spending. I think the odds of that happening are about the same as the odds of my dropping dead of a heart attack. I don't worry about either. Nothing is permanent. Life is meant to be lived.

Stock prices have no effect on my spending. I expect the market to be volatile, it always has been and always will be. If that bothers you invest elsewhere. I take a long-term view - the only two prices that mean anything are the day you buy and the day you sell, the rest is irrelevant. And in fact if you're at the age where you're still a net buyer, you should be happy when the market drops, you're buying for less.

It's very slow for me today and has been a lot lately. And it's just this site, others don't have the problem for me.

The name FONDL started life as an acronym for a fictional organization named Friends Of Naked Dancing Ladies, which is why I always capitalize it. Also to be sure that readers understand that it's fond-L as opposed to fond-one, which you might think if it were all lower-case letters.

Sounds like a neighborhood bar or hybrid type place to me. One of the difficulties in trying to categorize strip clubs is that there are so many regional quirks. For example, The Block clubs in Baltimore would have to be a category all by themselves, I don't know of any clubs anywhere else that are at all similar. The DC clubs are pretty unusual too. There are a lot of clubs that are unique, they just wouldn't fit in a category not matter how many categories you listed.

I've always been pretty open and honest with strippers. I've never had a problem with it.

DougS, yes I was. And I realize that Brad's isn't a typical neighborhood bar type place - it's bigger than most and a little fancier, but it has the friendly atmosphere of a neighborhood bar. As I'm sure many of you remember, I once tried to categorize clubs and ended up with a lot more categories than the 4 listed above. For example, I remember listing "GC-wannabe" as a category - those clubs that pretend to be GCs but don't quite make it, and there are a lot of such places including many of the chain clubs. I also had "LD-factory" as a category, which I think is pretty self-explanatory. And I also listed "hybrid" as a category - those increasingly common clubs that are part neighborhood bar and part LD factory, which is were I'd put Brad's.

I think abuse can produce two other effects. It can teach the girl to compartmentalize - eg. to separate the person to whom the abuse is happening from their "real" self, that's not really happening to me that's someone else. It can also teach the girl that this is the way the world works, guys only want one thing, and I'd better learn to accept and use that to my advantage. I think we commonly see both types of attitudes in strip clubs. My ATF exhibited both of those attitudes. She was very skilled at playing up to guys, flirting and making them feel that they were special, even guys she didn't care for at all, especially guys she didn't care for at all. And she made loads of money doing so with no qualms of consiousness, especially when separating money from the real jerks. She quickly became a very skilled con artist. And I was always surprised at how different she was OTC vs. in the club, she was like two different people. And I think that's how she looked at dancing - that was someone else doing that. I even called her by two different names. We'd even joke about it, I'd say something like "By the way XXX, how's your friend YYY doing?" Same person.

I prefer the small, friendly, inexpensive neighborhood bar type places. Like Brad's.

Which rasies an interesting question - are girls who have been sexually abused more likely to become strippers, or is sexual abuse more common in the lower income and broken households from which many (most?) strippers come? I'm inclined to think that both are true.

DougS, I used to think that dancers were too old at 35 too, but since my ATF turned 30 I've had to re-evaluate my biases. Of course I've aged too.

I must admit, I believed it too, because Shadowcat's always talking about one fucked up ex-ATF or another. Good story. So your waistline hasn't grown and you haven't gotten balder? My guess is that would put you in the minority here.

Doug, she's my idea of how a stripper should be built. Did you notice on her web site that she says she's an ex-gymnast? And also that she's about 35 years old? I keep hoping to see her at my gym, it's in the general area where she claims to be and she obviously works out regularly.

Seems to me that the rejection works both ways. I'm sure we've all had the experience of asking a girl to join us when she's onstage, she says she'll be right over, then she joins someone else. They obviously don't care how we feel when we're rejected, so why should we care about how they might feel when we say no?

Bones, can you send me an email? I have some info that might interest you but I can't access your address.

For me, sight and touch would be pretty equal at the top - it wouldn't be much fun if either were missing, although I suppose I could enjoy the right girl in a pitch black atmosphere so I guess touch has a slight edge. Sound would be next, then smell (although the lack of a negative experience with the latter is sufficient.) Taste is irrelevant.

Chandler, good point, I've always been surprised at how many times I've felt that way, that the girl and I were conspiring against the club to see how much we could get away with. That's pretty common in PA clubs where the rules are often fairly strict. And as you point out, it's a lot of fun. One place that comes to mind is a little bar where the LDs are done on a sofa in the manager's office in the basement. It's like being in high school making out in the girl's living room while her parents are upstairs, you always keep one ear tuned to possible footsteps on the stairs.

Bones, the only place I've been to in Erie is Partner's Tavern, which is the one I referred to. I haven't been there in a long tijme but it was very high mileage with lots of friendly and attractive girls. It's also a very popular place and the girls spend most of their time with regulars, so for an outsider it can be dicey. BYOB, nude. Nude LDs in private booths. The place itself is kinda strange, it's more like a private party than a club, but definately worth a visit. It's in a little strip mall east of downtown on a main road in a surprissingly upscale neighborhood - you'll think you've gone too far out of town.

I once read that how a girl laughs is an indication of how she will be in bed. If she laughs without reservation, it's likely her in-bed performance will be similar. But if her laughter is restrained, so too will be her performance. I don't know how true this is but my ATF is pretty unrestrained when it comes to laughter, which makes for some pleasant dreams.

There's an otherwise excellent club in Erie, PA, where you have to (or at least had to - I haven't been there in awhile) buy your private dances in advance from the dj, and he would pass your request along to the girls in the order in which they are received (supposedly.) So when you buy a dance you have no idea whether you're going to have to wait for 5 minutes of 2 hours for the girl to get to you. And the girls don't circulate - they generally sit at the rail with their friends or regulars - so there's no chance to ask them directly. If you ask them while they're dancing, they tell you to talk to the dj. Fortunately the dances are worth the wait. Bones - ever been clubbing in Erie, that's not far from you?

The club that I used to frequent the most had a policy forbidding husbands and BFs - they'd drop the girls off out front and leave. My ATF's brother used to come in all the time and sit with her when she wasn't busy. I got to know him pretty well. But I always thought it was kinda weird because it was a nude club, but it didn't seem to bother either one of them at all. She also told me that one of her uncles used to come in now and then. She had a couple of cousins who worked there too, so I guess it wa a family thing.

In my experience most strippers ignore the club's rules if they can get away with it. But they all have their own rules which they usually (but not always) will follow. When I used to get a lot of dances from girls who I didn't know, I almost always would ask the girl before we started what her rules were. And usually they'd say "We're not supposed to ... but if nobody's watching I don't care, just don't ..." That was a pretty standard response, first saying what the club rules were, then telling me we could ingore them if we didn't get caught, then adding her own rules which were usually more lenient. And I too think it's more than just trying to mazimize income. I think strippers in general are people who hate being told what they can and can't do. So if someone tells them that they aren't allowed to do something, it makes them want to do it just for the hell of it.

Second dumbest thing I can remember was at Lady Godiva's outside of Morgantown, WV. The dancer had to turn in your LD money in advance to the bartender. Which is dumb enough all by itself, but to make matters worse, the bar is downstairs and the LD area is upstairs in a 2-story house. So you give the money to the dancer downstairs and she in turn gives it to the barmaid. Then you go upstairs, she disrobes, then you get your dance. So far so good. But if you like the girl and want another dance, she has to get dressed and run the money downstairs before she can give you another one. In other words, management doesn't trust their girls. So why should the customer? And it's a shame because in spite of such stupidity this is a pretty good club. But it could easily be a great one. (Anyone else ever been there?)

Imnum, I know exactly what you mean. My ATF and I used to hold hands a lot when we were walking but she won't do it anymore now that she has a serious BF, and I miss it. We're so much closer than we used to be in other respects, but we're not as physically intimate in that kind of way as we once were. I guess it's all part of the maturing process in our friendship.

Thanks, Chandler. I wasn't responding to your comment, in fact I'd forgotten all about it. But I agree with your distinction. In fact, I believe that's the only kind of sincerity I've ever encountered in a club. Maybe an example will help make this distinction for others. My ATF was always a hard worker and tried her best to please me, as well as many other customers (she was quite popular.) In fact I was always amazed at how hard she worked at her job, at trying to plese her customers. And not just to make more money, she treated the small tippers just as well as the big ones. Unless they didn't tip at all, then all hell would break loose. (I once gave her a pin that said "waiteress from hell" and she wore it every day.) But she was far from honest with me (in the club) and that never bothered me at all, because that's what I expect in a club, that's part of the game. She told me all kinds of things about herself that weren't true. In fact she probably lied to me more than any other dancer I've ever known. So she was very sincere in trying to show me the best time she could without violating any of her rules (she wasn't particularly high mileage,) but she was far from honest in telling me personal things about herself until I got to know her really well.