Comments by FONDL (page 47)

To track down or not is actually a pretty difficult decision to make. Your ego will tell you that she wants to see you again and your little head will tell you that you want to see her again. And if she's dancing elsewhere and you're a paying customer, why wouldn't she want to see you again? So I don't think there's much risk to looking for her in other clubs in the area, after all it's logic for you to be there anyway. But if she's quit dancing, I'd wait for her to call.

Whether you're talking customers or dancers, I think most of the publicity is word of mouth. I don't think either this site or any of the others out there have much impact on what happens at a particular club. We're the exception not the rule.

I agree with Yoda's first sentence but my reasoning is different. I think a major reason us old guys appeal to these young girls is that we don't pester them for sex the way guys their own age would. If you change that she will look at you differently and you will not longer be treated the same. You may get the sex but you won't ever have the same kind of trusting relationship that many of us associate with an ATF. Personally, if it's a girl I really like, I'd rather have a long-term friendship than a short-term sexual relationship, and I don't think you can have both.

Yoda, it's not just strippers who pretend to be something that they are not, people from all walks of life do it. In fact it's my opinion that a lack of self-confidence is what drives a lot of highly successful people to become so successful, they have an overwhelming need to prove to themselves (and others) that they can. I also don't think that most people who have been abused are ever going to admit it, especially not to someone whom they barely know. There's no way to know how common it is among strippers.

Bones, that's pretty funny. I actually think the attraction from her pint of view is that I'm probably the first moderately successful older gentleman who she's ever gotten to know well and I think she is flattered by the fact that I continued to like her even when she stopped taking her clothes off. If I had to put a name to it, I'd say that more than anything else I'm her mentor. She asks my opinion about everything and often takes my advice, which is more than my own kids did at her age. And I find that flattering. But to get back to the original question here, I think I'd substitute "sincerity" for "honesty" as my desired trait. By that I mean that I like a girl who is sincere in her effort to please me and give me my money's worth, not because she likes me but because that's what I'm paying her for. Whether or not she actually likes me is irrelevant - I don't think most of them even think in those terms. It's her job, and the relevant question for me is whether she's sincere in trying to do a good job or is she just going through the motions. I'd rather have a low-mileage girl who sincerely tries to do her job well than a high-mileage girl who is just going through the motions.

Shadowcat, I remember that, but I still think I've seen it elsewhere. Sounds like something that Angelou lady would write. But it doesn't matter, I like it. And incidently, FYI it should be "elude" not "alude." Pete, I agree. Eye contact is super important.

When my ATF was about 12, her mother was working as a waitress in a strip club (the same one where I met her although it was called something different then) and one of the strippers lived with them for awhile. The stripper shared drugs with my ATF - that was her first drug experience. If you want to be friends (or whatever) with strippers, it's good to remember that a lot of them have had really screwed up childhoods that have left them with deep deep scars - what I call birds with broken wings - and they aren't ever going to be what most of us would consider to be normal, they will always have some holes in their personalities. You need to be prepared to accept that because they aren't going to change. Imnum, I wouldn't call it wasted, just delayed. Encourage her to reach her potential, that's what I keep doing with my ATF. The only thing she's missing is self-confidence, although if you met her you'd never guess that, she comes across as one of the most self-confident people I've ever met. But it's all an act and I'm probably the only person who knows that. It's one of the things we talk about a lot.

Bones, if you liked that web site, try this one - she's another local girl who has been getting excellent reviews: http://www.myeuropeantouch.com

Imnumnutz, your ATF sounds almost exactly like mine. With one major exception - she isn't at all ashamed of anything she's done in the past, she admits some of it was really stupid but she also correctly recognizes that all of it is what made her who she is today. My ATF is now 30 and is finally closing in on getting her BS. But she's not concerned that she's later than some others, she knows she'll eventually get there and that's all that counts. And when she does she'll probably appreciate it a lot more than those who had an easier time of it.

From almost day one my ATF treated me like a good friend rather than a customer. That was probably because she had just started to dance and hadn't developed all the tricks yet. But even after she did learn them she never tried to apply them to me. That's a big reason why she became my ATF. Shadowcat, I've seen that "Happiness is like a butterfly ..." before. Maybe on a Hallmark card?

She's been around for several years although I've never met her. But if I were going to go that route she's the first person I'd call. Her reviews are excellent and indicate that she does not give "full service" - it's erotic massage only including hand relief. But you're still getting more than you usually do in a strip club for $200, which is my point. And she's got a better body than do most strippers these days. And she makes home visits. And is only 15 minutes away ...

I know that there is something in my ATF's background along the lines of sexual abuse, but I don't know exactly what. And I'll never ask her, the only way we'll ever discuss it is if she brings it up. We almost got into it one night a long time ago over something that I said totally by accident, but she clammed up and has never mentioned it again. But I'll never forget that night, I believe it's the only time anyone has ever seen her without any masks on. I saw her naked soul that night, and I'm probably the only person who ever has. And because of that I knew that we'd be part of each other's lives forever. I believe that seeing someone's soul has that effect. I also know that her mother was raised in foster homes and was raped repeatedly in at least one of them. Which is why the mother is a raging alcoholic and the whole family, except for my ATF, is really screwed up. I think sexual abuse is pretty common among strippers, but it's not something I've ever discussed. Nor do I want to unless I knew the girl really well.

Yes I did. My ATF quit while I was out of town on vacation 8-1/2 years ago. I knew she was going to quit because she told me so and had been making the rounds of other clubs to check them out. But I didn't know where she ended up. So I made the rounds of a couple of the clubs that I knew she had planned to check out and didn't find her. I then went back to her original club and asked around, and the bartender told me where she was working (which really pissed her off, she didn't want old customers to know where she was.) But before I had a chance to go visit her she called me and told me herself, then invited me to come see her. Which I did. It turned out that after making the rounds of a bunch of other clubs she decided that she didn't want to dance anymore. So she tried to get a job waitressing at one of the strip clubs she had visited - they didn't have any openings but hired her to waitress at a nearby sports bar that the same people owned. So I started hanging out at the sports bar regularly, which is how we became friends. She later changed jobs several other times but always told me where she was going, and each time that became my new hangout. She ended up waitressing at the strip club that had originally turned her down. Then she moved 1000 miles south and became a massage therapist. And I still go to see her regularly. But I think my story is fairly unusual. I doubt if most dancers want anyone to follow them like that (I was the only customer my ATF called when she quit.) If she wants to see you again she'll probably call you.

HD, I've been to clubs all over the country and I consider RI to be one of the best clubbing states there is. Providence is probably the best town north-east of Philly. But it's been a long time for me so my info isn't current. Yoda's the expert here on that part of the world.

I guess I have what I consider an acceptable minimum in both categories. It doesn't much matter to me how far beyond those minimums she goes because once she clears those 2 hurdles it's all about personlity. If she meets both minimums and has a fun personality to go with it, she'll empty my wallet. If not I move on. The only real question arises for me when there are no girls in the club who meet both minimums.

I've told this one here before but not recently. I'm traveling out of town and decide to check out this little rural club out in the middle of nowhere early one evening. I walk in and there are two people there - an older female bartender and an average looking young girl standing at the bar. No one is on stage. I walk up to the bar, order a beer, and begin talking to the young girl, who it turns out is a dancer. Nothing is going on so after some small talk I ask her if they have any private dances. She says yes but she doesn't do them, I have to ask the other girl. About then the other "girl" comes out on stage so I walk over to check her out, whereupon she immediately quotes me the price of anything you can think of and then some. She was about 50 (which was also her bra size) and missing about half her teeth. About then another customer came in, and it was obvious that he was one of her regulars - he was also missing about half his teeth and looked like he had just finished plowing the north 40. I left.

I think a lot of clubs go through cycles, especially the smaller neighborhood places. They'll get a group of really fun girls who create a friendly and welcoming atmosphere, which in turn attracts more customers, management hires more girls (of lower quality) to meet demand, the friendly atmosphere declines as competition increasees, girls get pissed because earnings are declining, management responds by not enforcing rules and/or raising prices, the fun girls quit and go elsewhere. That's exactly what happened with the club that used to be my favorite and where I met my ATF. When she and the other fun girls left, so did I. The place really went downhill after that. I recently heard that they now have a new group of fun girls. But the higher prices remain.

I've had little experience with dancers who aren't homegrown white girls so I can't begin to generalize. All I can say is that the few black, Russian and Hispanic dancers I've been with have all been fairly high mileage. But they all worked in fairly high mileage clubs, so other dancers there were probably pretty similar. Which raises an interesting question - maybe the girls who aren't white Americans tend to gravitate to the higher mileage clubs? For example, the highest mileage club near me has a lot of Brazilians, and it's the only club around that does (that I know of.) I don't recall ever being with an Asian dancer.

A typical club visit for me costs about $110 - $10 for 2 beers (I won't finish the second one) $20 for 2 dancer drinks $20 for tips $60 for 3 LDs and if I fall in lust I might get a couple more LDs. The places I like don't charge admission during the day or for parking. And the reason I won't spend more than $200 in a club is that for that price there are better options - eg. www.exhilaratingtouch.com

My ATF was raised by her grandparents and as a result she's always been very comfortable around older men. She has always, from day one, treated me as if we're the same age even though I'm nearly 40 years her senior. When we're together I don't think either one of us is conscious of the age difference, it just isn't important. It's probably a big reason why she became my ATF and why we've remained close friends ever since. I also think the darkness in most clubs makes it a lot easier to forget a big age difference between dancer and customer. We're more likely to judge each other by how we act rather than how we look. And once you get to know each other it no longer matters.

The place where my ATF worked had a really attractive dancer who spent all her time with a guy in a wheel chair whenever he was there, which was fairly often. If he was there she wouldn't go near any other customers, they spent all their time shooting pool. I obvioulsy don't know the full story but I always sort of admired her for that. I don't know if I ever ran into a dancer who would only dance for certain guys, but I've known a lot who wouldn't dance with certain guys. I think that's pretty common.

I once saw a dancer pass out on a bar stool and fall to the floor - some friends had to carry her back to the dressing room, she was out cold. Prior to that she had been stumbling around on stage, it was pretty funny. My guess is that there was more than alcohol involved.

Good point Chandler. If a dancer thinks I'm a total jerk, and I'm sure many of them have, the last thing I want is for her to tell me so. To much honesty is as bad as too little. I also think that this whole stripper honesty issue is a function of subject matter and who first brings it up - eg. if she's telling me about herself without my asking, I assume a certain degree of honesty, otherwise why bother; but if I'm asking her personal questions (which I don't usually do), then she probably isn't going to be very honest unless we know each other pretty well.

Personally I think Paris is the least attractive of the 3. She doesn't do a thing for me, I think she's at best average looking.