Comments by FONDL (page 3)

Wondergirl, customers need to preserve the illusion that they're smarter than you are. Otherwise they feel threatened. Play dumb, you'll make more money.

I always found it to be a trade-off. I always liked the youngest ones best, because they were the most likely to be genuine and aboveboard without yet having an attitude. I found that refreshing. But there's no question that the really young ones can be trying in many other respects, it all depends on how much you're willing to tolerate. The trick is to find an intelligent one without the BS. Hard to do. I met my ATF the first week she danced and I honestly believe that's why she became my ATF and closest friend. If she had been dancing for a year it never would have happened. The first time we met she treated me like a friend and that never changed. But she didn't treat people she met a year later like that, her attitude had changed. So I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. I don't go to strip clubs looking for a friend but that's how I like to be treated. To me that's more important than mileage or skills.

Book Guy, the mistake I see clubs making is that so many are trying to move upscale. They're all trying to attract the big spender, but he's the part of the market that I think is shrinking the fastest. This move may make short-term sense for the individual club but when they all try to do it it's disatrous for them all (there's a name for that - something that's good if only one company does it but is bad when they all do - but I've forgotten what the name is, it's a classic business stregy mistake.) The problem is that in order to move upscale they must dramatically increase their investment in the club, which forces them to raise prices beyond what the traffic will bear. IMO the sector of the market that's the most stable is the blue-collar beer-drinking factory or construction worker. I think the most profitable clubs in the industry (in terms of ROI) are the small enighborhood clubs that cater to this crowd. I know that some of these guys are currently unemployed, but does it really hurt these kinds of inexpensive clubs when some of ther customers are drawing unemolyment and have more free time on their hands? Such clubs are also likely to have longevity because they're getting an increasing number of retired guys coming in every day. I think that' wherre the industry's future lies. Shadowcat, I know I don't get around to clubs much anymore but I think there's just as much risk of misreading what's happening if you go too often - you can easily focus on the trees and miss the forest. You have no intgerest in the economic and sociology discussions here, but the truth is that strip clubs don't exist in a vacuum, they're part of a larger society and economy. And I think many of the answers about why strippers act certain ways and why things happen in strip clubs can be found in the larger world.

Clubber, unfortunately it isn't quite that simple. I believe that a lot of clubs are making money from the higher prices, it's the girls who aren't. Which is why prices stay high. The competition isn't so much between clubs as it is between girls, who in many clubs have no control over prices. Which is why mileage goes up, it's the only thing they can control. Clubs are taking a short-term view. But then what business doesn't?

To answer the original question: is it genuine or is it stripper shit. My answer is yes. I seriously doubt that strippers ever think in these terms. In other words, they themselves wouldn't know the answer. And frankly who care, it is what it is. Enjoy it for what it's worth.

A question for you guys who have seen a decline in clubs in your area: do you think they'll ever come back to where they were? The reason I ask is that I think the industry is in a long-term decline. And the clubs where it's probably most noticable are those in regions where the economy is particularly weak. I think the decline is because clubs have over-priced themselves versus other forms of adult entertainment. And to make matters worse, the number of both clubs and strippers is increasing, so an increasing number of suppliers are fighting over a shrinking customer base. And the girls are the ones who are being squeezed. I find it interesting that people are attributing the increased availability of extras to the weak economy in their area, and that may well be true. But it seems to me from what I've been reading here that extras are increasing everywhere, regardless of the state of the local economy.

I don't think you can ever save anyone but you can go broke trying. On the other hand, if a girl truly wants to save herself, and by that I mean she wants to break away from a terrible background and create a better life for herself, and she is highly motivated, you may be able to help. Just keep in mind that there's a fine line between helping and enabling. I got lucky and was able to help my ATF, but I think our experience is pretty rare.

My interpretation of what Wondergirl has been telling us is that she doesn't care if some girls in a club are discretely doing extras either ITC or OTC. She doesn't mind full nudity nor does she object to high contact as long as she is allowed to set some limits. What she doesn't want is a club where customers expect and pressure all the girls to do extras, that the girls pretty much have to comply to make any money, and that the availability of extras is specifically why most customers go to that particular club. Hope I got that right.

Tall, thin, long blonde hair, moderately attractive in a conventional kind of way, too much make-up, fake tits, a fake smile, not very bright, zero personality, and attitude up the wazoo. Hollywood's idea of a stripper. The kind of girl I avoid in clubs. Not to be confused with the girl-next-door type who may have some similarities in appearance but without the fake boobs and too much makeup, she has a real and friendly smile, some intelligence and personality, and zero attitude. She's the one I look for if she's not too tall.

Dick, I've never noticed any correlation between how attractive a dancer is vs. how much contact she was willing to allow. I think if there's any correlation anywhere it's with intelligence - the smarter girls know how to make money without going as far. Drug use probably also correlates with how far they will go, but it isn't always easy to know who the drug users are, some of them are very good at hiding their habit. If it weren't for drugs, I'd expect to see some correlation with age too, especially with the women over 35 or 40, but drug use by younger ones probably offsets that.

Let's not forget that this is an election year. LE tends to become more active at times like this especially if there's a serious local contest for something like mayor or DA going on. It'll get worse as we approach November.

If you're serious about traveling, I'd also highly recommend a trip to Indianapolis. Brad's Brass Flamingo is a very special place and there are a lot of other clubs in the area. And there are inexpensive motels around, it's not an expensive area.

Correction - it's Filly Corral Showbar south of Pittsburg, not Philly Corral (guess I had Philly on the brain.) It's right on I-70 in an area of inexpensive motels and little else, in a building that looks like it started life as a chain restaurant. One of my all-time favorite places. Check their web-site, I think they're only open at night on Wednesday - Saturdays. Anyone else ever been there?

Cross Show-n-Tell Showbar in Philly and the Baltimore Block off your list - you wouldn't want to work there. Philly does have a lot of decent places - check he reviews. The only places I'd recommend you try in Baltimore are Gentlemen's Gold Club (super fancy high end), McDoogal's (more of a neighborhood type place), or Players Club aka Wagon Wheel (a small but very popular LD factory and probably the best money in town), none are extras places. If you go the the Pittsburg area you must try Philly Corral - great club but I seem to be the only person herre who has ever been there. I also recommend Nepal's in Greenville, SC. And I second the motion on Key West and maybe some Tampa clubs. There's not much in the way of decent clubs between Baltimore and Florida.

I've been saying here for years that sex in strip clubs is ultimately going to ruin the industry. It's driving out the better girls like Wongergirl and attracting LE. Isn't the declining quality of dancers one of our biggest complaints here? Why can't guys who are looking for sex just hire escorts and leave strip clubs alone? Anyone who truly enjoys going to strip clubs and wants to see them survive should be strongly opposed to extras ITC. Don't be surprised when your favorite club gets shut down. If extras are common there it's only a matter of time.

One of my first blogs (now called "articles") described the origin and meaning of FONDL in great detail. If anyone cares, look it up, I'm too lazy to repeat it.

Chandler, I've found that the clubs I usually like best rarely have many reviews. In fact I used to avoid the clubs that had a lot of reviews. I rarely like the popular places.

Wondergrl, ask for both. That way you piss everyone off. Sorry Arbeeguy, but how can anyone resist the urge to stray off topic on a staying-on-topic topic? But to get back on topic, seems to me that most topics would die rather quickly if people didn't drift off into something else. We've pretty much dicussed all there is to discuss about strip clubs at least 47 times. In fact if you look at all the current topics of discussion, most of them started out off the topic of strip clubs. So why should anyone feel obliged to stay on topic?

I agree with the sentiment of staying on topic but I think it's impossible to do. People are always going to be reminded of something not exactly on-topic that they want to say. I too am against lowering speed limits, but I wish current limits would be enforced more strictly. Excessive speed is killing over 40,000 people a year. That's 40 times the number of soldiers killed in Iraq. And for what? Where are the demonstrations, where's the outrage?

I prefer not to be approached, I don't like any the hustle. Give me a club full of lazy dancers anytime. Although I too have been to clubs that do the dollar dance as Raincoat described and I like that. A tip walk is OK too if they aren't too aggressive about it. But I hate it where girls approach you and ask if you want company, or even worse, sit down uninvited.

I've found lots of strippers to be lazy. And lots of them not to be. Pretty much in the same proportions as people their age anywhere else. How many 22 year old eager beavers (no pun intended) can you name?

People whose primary purpose here seems to be to attack others personally get me to use the ignore button. I just skip posts from people who rarely have anything interesting to say.

When I used to travel a lot and therefore read lots of reviews, the only part I paid much attention to were the descriptions of what the club was like, eg. big or small, moderately priced or expesive, LDs or not, how much hustle, how many girls and how attractive at a particular time of day, etc. Unfortunately too many reviews devote most of their discussion to how good a time the reviewer did or didn't have, which as far as I'm concerned is irrelevant. I've had way too many good times in bad clubs and vice versa for that to be any sort of meaningful indicator of the kind of experience I might expect. And I think the numerical ratings are meaningless, particularly the differences between clubs that are rated 5 or higher. I found little correlation between them and how much I did or didn't like a particular club. Everyone's tastes are different.

Excellent response, Chitown. I hope we can now lay this and other related threads to rest and get back to discussion of issues that belong here.