How do you know? Is it genuine? I am either the biggest PL on this board or am really liked by my favorite dancers. I seem to have the ability to separate the two. Last week, a dancer in street clothes and not working came over and sat with me for 10 minutes. She told me that I looked good and asked about how things were going for me. Most of them stop by my table when leaving the club to say good bye and even give me a kiss and wish me a safe trip home. One not only gave me her cell number but also her husbands.
I have a whole lot more stories of what I call real affection. You guys that have met me in person, know that I am real. My point is that even though this is a business for them, some of them can still actually care about you.
"You guys that have met me in person, know that I am real." -- I always thought you were a dummy. That fist up your ass must be there for some other reason.
Well, to avoid the piss-fest which is likely forthcoming and instead address the original issue:
I think that the "connection" between a stripper and her customer is indeed "real," but only in the sense that it's a deep connection along the model of whatever connection the stripper is capable of making. (Perhaps the man is only as capable of that level of depth and commitment, too.) I've found out that I know as much, if not more, about a given stripper's private life, after a little bit of sitting with her before going to the private room, as I do about anyone I've ever dated, and probably as much as some of her boyfriends know. She just doesn't let me fuck her for free, but that doesn't mean she isn't "feeling intimate." (To most females, sexuality isn't something they render up because it "means depth" as much as because "it was fun" and "he was masculine." So they're likely, civilian or stripper, to fuck those who are aggressive while also manipulating for attention those who are drippy.)
So, really, it's a non-question. The affection is as "real" as a stripper gets. But that doesn't mean there's much to it.
When in doubt, it's stripper shit. If you have to ask, it's stripper shit.
If you have never paid her a dime her life, she's knows you never will, but takes you home and fucks your brains anyway, then it's real. Anything less... It's stripper shit.
But, I am not sure why these questions keep coming up. Look at who these girls are. No, who they really are. Not what you wish they were, or want them to be. But the reality. And then look at the kinds of guys they ARE attracted to. Then, you'll see, if they really were attracted to you, it would mean there was something wrong with you.
You guys are way to deep for me *LOL*. Besides who really gives a crap. I thought we go to clubs for fun. If I wanted a real relationship I sure would not be going to a strip club to find one.
"And then look at the kinds of guys they ARE attracted to. Then, you'll see, if they really were attracted to you, it would mean there was something wrong with you."
YES Sirey Bob, deys attracted to me----BIG TIME. :) And, if those that aren't attracted often ooze real affection or real hate; not enough actresses!
Yes, generally if the stripper is attracted to you then something is "wrong" with you----at least that is the case with the strippers I've known.
This is a false dichotomy, and I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. When I see my dentist, he's nice to me. We chat a lot. He's really friendly. He likes me. I likewise genuinely like the people who are my customers, and we even exchange gifts, go out to dinner, etc. Hell, I even traveled once internationally to a customer's home (with my children) and stayed for a week (and not for work).
But, but, but -- we're still not "friends," not in the normal sense. It's a business relationship, and if it were not for the business relationship, we'd never know each other. If I stopped paying my dentist money, he'd stop providing me with services, simple as that. Same with my customers. I like them, but I will not keep providing them with my services if they stop paying me.
So it is not the case that the stripper who is nice to you has to be lying. She can be sincere, she can genuinely like you, and the chit-chat, gifts, etc., can be heartfelt. But it's still all based on a business relationship, not something else. It's not a friendship.
Bobby asks why do these questions keep coming up. Good question, but he doesn't provide an answer. Here's my answer: there is a certain class of customer that usually has the following characteristics: older; unmarried (or in a marriage that does not provide his main source of emotional support); lonely; way too much time on his hands. This is the kind of guy who might spend 6 or 8 hours in a club in a single sitting (yikes!). This is also the type of person who can somehow afford to take several days a month off to travel interstate just to visit a strip club.
That kind of customer will invest much more emotional baggage into the stripper relationship. They won't want to see it as a business relationship. They will want to see it as a "friendship." Secretly, subconsciously, I think they are even looking for a girlfriend.
We have guys on this site who have seen ATFs for years (years!); think of them as their "best friend"; don't have sex with them; and yet still pay them money!!! Guys like that are romanticizing the stripper thing, and they cannot think clearly about this. And that's why this question keeps coming up.
I think that some of you have misinterpreted my post. I am not interested in forming a personal relationship with any stripper. I am too old for that shit and too wise. I go to have fun and my favorite dancers realize that. Maybe that is why they can be affectionate towards me. But I can still smell stripper shit. If I suspect of being bull shitted but am getting the pussy, I put up with it. But when a dancer goes out of her way to be nice to me, I have to believe that it is sincere.
Well, I have ATFs that I've seen for YEARS and would love to see and do business with then for MORE YEARS. Normally, the relationship is business: Like with the dentist or lawyer. You may actually like your dentist and lawyer, and they may actually like you. Bottom line is it still primarily a business relationship.
What if the dentist says that she is going to do all dental work for free? That is good news? I guess, if I'm dead broke and want to keep my teeth. What if the lawyer says he is going to do all legal work for free? Gee, if I'm dead broke and want to avoid a government prison, then thank goodness for the help.
If the stripper that I've known for YEARS demands to provide all sexual services for FREE, then is that good news??? Really, those who want free must be very different than me. I LOVE cheap; that's what my budget allows. It would be even better if I could be generous with everyone who does a good job or at least tries their best.
I think it is absolutely 100% insane to want or be happy about absolutely FREE service from a sex worker. You might as well just go on the dating market if that is the garbage you are interested in! And, yes "free" from a regular woman is also garbage, imo.
So far, Gambling dancer has kept her word. She still isn't accepting money----hint, hint, hint, this is bad news. She is a sex worker and surprise surprise surpise---I would like to buy what she has been willing to sell for YEARS. Those who think this is something good or should be strived for need to be hit upside the head with a mackeral (sp?)! (No, I will NOT accept "free" from her. BTW, a "freebie" now and then isn't truly free, but rather just good business. She wants to throw in a few freebies and that is fine and dandy.)
We see it all the time on stripper discussion boards, but I, for one, have never bought this "It's just like any other job" line of reasoning.
Sex work is NOTHING like any other job. You site dentists for instance. A dentist, compared to a stripper is a highly esteemed profession in our society. If a child tells mommy and daddy she wants to grow to be a dentist, mommy and daddy are going to be overjoyed. If she tells them she wants to be a stripper, how do you think they will react? Panic mode. How many of these girls do you think well strangers they meet at party's their real job? Many (most, IME) hide it from their families even.
I don't care what anyone on these boards says, I know there is huge collective guilt with these women about what they do. And then, as if whoring wasn't hard enough on their self-esteem they, very often make matters even worse for themselves by getting into some dark deception (don't get me wrong, I'm all for a stripper telling a guy she loves his huge cock, if it's mutually understood it's just part of the act, but many go to unethical extreme well beyond this). Some even start stealing outright.
Along these lines, I will say that few, if any, jobs promote the same contemptuous treatment of customers as the stripping culture does.
Nope, stripping ain't just another job. Ain't buying it.
Maybe it should be like that, or maybe it will be at some time in the future but not in the world we live in right now.
My bookstore employee's mom was a hardcore hooker. Yes, she liked sex with clients assuming they were any good. Yes, she wanted her daughter (my employee) to be a hooker and thought the daughter was stupid not to let the dollars roll in with fun and easy sex work.
The employee was HOT and had a super strong sex drive (like her mom). Anyway, the employee thought hooking was EVIL because it took advantage of men and besides it made NO sense. Why charge a man when he is giving you pleasure or at least trying to??? Sex should be FREE. I don't know where she got the nutty idea sex should be FREE, but it was firmly planted in her mind. Did employee have a problem having sex with OLD and FAT men? Nope, not a problem in the least. She did have a problem with married men (she thought it was against the Bible) and with blacks (too huge and race mixing is against the Bible according to her).
"Comparing strippers to lawyers is horribly insulting to the strippers."
Well, I did say it was "much cleaner." :) If I had a daughter would I want her to be a high paid lawyer or a high paid stripper? I'd definitely be leaning toward the sex work especially if that was what she was into. Good lawyers? Sure. But, the system is total filth. A good lawyer is like a bar of soap in a septic tank; or a drop of water in the desert.
It's funny a friend of mine HATES lawyers with a passion and yet they saved his ass big time for an amount he considered to be play money i.e. a joke. The amount was a little over $20,000 and he told me at the time $100,000 would have been cheap. And, for him it was nothing.
He was arrested on a gun charges and was facing heavy duty prison time. Lawyers saved the day. The Second Amendment especially at that time (and even now---for the most part) was a total joke. He has a right to bear arms? I hadn't met any high priced lawyers who viewed the Second Amendment in that light and his lawyers sure as hell weren't going to risk the wrath of a judge with such a "stupid" argument. Bottom line, the lawyers did their job quickly and for his budget extremely cheaply.
It makes no sense that he HATES lawyers; at least the way he has explained it to me. He was happy with the price and happy with the end result. I guess he wanted to yap about the Second Amendment?
He LOVES the police----he seems to forget the police are ones who arrested him. :) Maybe he thinks the police were right and the lawyers were wrong? Instead of supporting his family and a small business perhaps he feels a government prison cell is where he actually belongs?
He HATES strippers, but loves to buy their services. I guess somehow it makes sense? Someone does good and that equals HATE and someone does bad that equals LOVE? I would say his IQ is just a little over a 100, FWTW.
Shadowcat, do you think if you keep asking this same question here every two weeks, we're eventually bound to all agree with you that it has to be real?
Just like the first 101 times you've asked, the answer is that it's a little bit of each - real affection and fake. Many strippers know that it's good business to treat their regular customers like true friends with the kind of gestures you describe. They can sense when it makes a PL feel special, so they lay it on extra thick, whether they truly like him or think he's a bit of an ass. However, many strippers are also somewhat selective about who they dance for. It's not based solely on money. It makes their job a little easier and more pleasant when they can fake intimacy with somebody for whom they have at least some real affection.
Ultimately, you can never know to what degree it's real or fake. They usually don't know themselves. Anybody who thinks he's got it figured out is bullshitting himself.
We are all just little boys on this site....trying to find out if the stripper really like us. So what if they do? They're still mostly nuts. One day they like you, the next day they stab you in the back.
Some strippers (unfortunately, imo, not enough) are extraordinary actresses. They live and breath acting. It may seem 100% like real affection because it is not about the money, but just because it ain't about the money doesn't mean its real.
Also, even if it's real the next day you may find a knife in your back (as DickJohnson pointed out).
In the SC, you're essentially paying for affection/intimacy just like you'd pay for sex.
It's forced affection by the dancer, but it's still a form of affection. This "affection" from the dancer is real in the sense that it emotionally drains the dancer the same way as if it were real. Customers always say it's fake, but forced is more accurate.
Dancers always talk about how they're emotional and physically drained by their customers. The affection is still real, it's just that it's forced. If these affections were totally fake, then the dancer wouldn't become drained by it.
So, to you, it feels real, and in a way, it is real, it's just that it's forced or sold to you for money, just like sex would be. The more you spend, the more the dancer will sell you emotional intimacy.
They have moods they go through and react to how their day has been going. I understand that. I had several dancers come sit in my lap the other night and eventually ask me for a lap dance. As soon as they found out I wasn't getting one, off they went. The affection only lasts as long as the expectations for some green are there.
What can make me nervous is a dancer that I'm not attracted to and she won't leave me alone even after she knows I'm not paying her any money for anything. I vaguely remember one dancer that bugged me several nights. Maybe she thought it was about the money until she offered free dances one night. I still said no. She offered to take me to her house but I still said no. Then a light went off in her head and she must have realized I wasn't attracted to her.
I was talking with a very close friend's stripper/prostitute girlfriend----high priced. She *knows* that *all* prostitutes feel like X, Y, Z because that is how she and her friends in the same line of work feel. (She considers it just a job. She likes/truly cares about some customers and dislikes others. Sex is basically ho hum despite any "exciting" performance by her and it is impossible to get any sexual feeling with a customer. A man pays and that kills all desire.)
I was telling her about cheap hookers/strippers that will get soaking wet and get a racing heart and etc. She being a know-it-all on the subject of hookers since she is a hooker says that I'm full of shit or easily fooled; a total john. Her pimp boyfriend corrects her: She is stunned. The look on her stunned face was priceless. :) Her next response is that she would like to pay for a woman who can get soaking wet and get a racing heart and etc. She wants to feel passion like that and wants to know why these cheap hookers can't be transported to a higher pay locale. :)
The real person behind the stripper/hooker happened to be a very sweet person. But, when I first met her she came off like she was a clone from the pink site (this is way before there was a pink site; pre-internet). :(
This high priced prostitute/stripper: She also has the deranged idea the sex *should* be FREE. :)
That is especially amusing coming from her because she believes even FREE pussy isn't free and that paid pussy is a bargain. Even when a woman just spreads her legs and welcomes all comers that wouldn't by her be seen as truly free. What she means by FREE is that the woman does it because she likes you for you. Sounds damn expensive to me; the strippers are looking like a steal. :)
jablake: You do have some good ideas from time to time, but you are way too WEIRD on average for me to believe you are scoring any strippers without paying. I think you are in the 99.5% of guys who are FOS when they make such claims. (casualguy is pretty weird too, but nowhere near as extreme as you. But for some reason, I believe his claims, by contrast.)
I expected the bashing but I did get a topic moving. Bash on.
A stripper offers to help me change a flat tire on my truck. Why?
A stripper gives me her cell number and below it gives me her husbands name and cell number. She says that if I ever need help to call her and if I cannot get a hold of her to call him. Why?
A stripper gives her brother $20 to get lost so that we can be alone. Why?
A stripper brings a cake and gift into the club for my birthday. Why?
We're not bashing we're just being realists. Everything you are saying can be true, but it's still a business, not a friendship, and if you stopped paying, the relationship would be over.
There's nothing unique about this to strippers.
*A client takes me out to dinner. Why?
*A client invites me to vacation at his home for a week. Why?
*Another client invites me to use her beach house for a week. Why?
*A vendor takes me out to lunch. Why?
*Another vendor buys me wine and an elaborate fruit basket. Why?
*A colleague sends me an elaborate basket of fruits and chocolates. Why?
*I receive countless holiday/xmas cards from vendors, clients, colleagues, etc. every year. Why, why, why?
I'll tell you why: IT'S GOOD BUSINESS THAT'S WHY! In any business (in mine anyway) that kind of thing happens dozens of times a year. It will most especially happen in the direction of a service provider giving bennies to a customer. The strippers are the service providers. You're the customer. That's why it's happening.
Don't believe me? Show up to the club, but stop spending money. Don't buy drinks, don't buy lapdances, don't even pay the cover (if there is one). Tell all the strippers you are flat broke and can never afford to spend any more money on them again. And see what happens.
To answer the original question: is it genuine or is it stripper shit. My answer is yes.
I seriously doubt that strippers ever think in these terms. In other words, they themselves wouldn't know the answer. And frankly who care, it is what it is. Enjoy it for what it's worth.
"jablake: You do have some good ideas from time to time, but you are way too WEIRD on average for me to believe you are scoring any strippers without paying."
I hang out at dives----I don't think these are the same women as you'll find at Tootsies for the most part. And, for goodness sakes the Mons ain't a dive. That is way upscale--$30? dances. I'm talking hardcore clubs that are cheap i.e. $5 lap dances. I doubt that I would have much appeal or success at an average or upscale club---but, then I wouldn't have the funds to find out.
The dancers love losers right? I'm a big loser financially so why wouldn't they love me? :)
I'm exactly---except for age and looks---what a dancer is looking for. I spent most of my early life surrounded my that culture. Also, I got to spend time among the elite. :) Yes, doesn't seem too probable. Not a happy situation going back and forth from skid row to extreme wealth. I guess it is sorta like the maid's kids who get to live it up while their mom works in the big house, but come sun down it is back to the ghetto. That wasn't my situation, but it would have been preferable.
Anyway, I'm not scoring strippers without paying. That, imo, would be completely bonkers. I've known strippers for years and years and because we are engage in role playing over a very long period of time some dancers either get confused or pretend to get confused. The bottom line is the stripper stops selling and demands a "real" relationship. Real relationships, imo, are disgusting----that is what I see, over and over again. Just pay the money for a *pretend* girlfriend.
I'd be turned off completely by what you seem to want, which is just sex. I need the fraud/game/acting, whatever you want to call it. Play that game and see if some strippers don't want to give it FREE and refuse to sell. :(
Also, if you want FREE, then try the tongue action and FREE should be 100% guaranteed unless somehow you are very unskilled and or don't put in the time----20 minutes at least of just lapping it up. I wouldn't do that (I'd like to, btw)---these are working girls and I'm way too afraid of disease. :(
Oops. The tongue action and FREE will NOT work, if the dancer thinks you are financially successful. So, just pretend to have financial problems e.g. drive a junk car. Please forget the expensive clothing. Calloused hands are a very nice touch if you are willing to play details. :)
A stripper gives me an answering machine so that she can leave me messages. Shekitout will love this one. She sought information from him before buying it. I'll bet he was pissed when he found out that it was for me. Why?
"Tell all the strippers you are flat broke and can never afford to spend any more money on them again. And see what happens."
Probably they'd want to *waste* their time hanging out with you when it isn't busy or far worse when it is busy. :( I'm speaking of experience with dancers at the very bottom of the income scale. Real low life clubs; the lower the better. Tootsies, imo, is exactly what a club shouldn't be---if, I had money then I might feel differently.
Who wants to steal a dancer's time when the club is busy? I'll tell you it is a very bad feeling. :( It is a bad feeling even when you know that she is a "lazy" dancer. You feel bad because you think that if you weren't there she might stop "wasting" time and start trying to make some money. Often that isn't the case, btw. She'd loaf if you are there or not, but it still feels very depressing. You have to almost be a cheerleader! :(
I'm not bashing, but I think those that disagree with you have very real points.
From what you've related, it just doesn't seem like you've spent enough time with the dancers for it to be anything other than their thinking of you as a nice good customer. Once a month visits seem like NOTHING.
Try and remember some of these dancers can not only change their feelings FAST, but some are extremely cold blooded. Cold blooded is only a negative if you want real, btw.
A stripper goes with her mother to the Philippines to settle the estate of an aunt. She writes to me from there. Why? Oops this one got intercepted by my ex wife.
You just don't care for the answer: It is good business.
BTW, just because it is good business doesn't mean that is the reason. Some dancers have relatively little interest in doing good business or making money.
They're often druggies or perhaps worse "love junkies." Why do hang out with the loser who abuses you? O, it is true LOVE. These girls are serious: LOVE rules for them. Then you get the squares who only see $$$ signs and wrongly assume all dancers have their same $$$ mindset. :(
Money grubbing generally is a turnoff for many dancers----they're better off and happier with their "loser" boyfriend. You know, the one that doesn't see everything thru the lense of $$$ signs. The irresponsible one who can't even properly take care of himself.
hey shadowcat why don't u tell us why this is all happening? who the fuck the knows the real motivation. Its important to you because...? Do you need us to all say, Ok, these stripper chicks really dig you. It's for real. You could have a shot at marying them. That seems to be what you need to hear.
In this sense I find the argument about it being ALL about the $$$ completely absurd:
My buddy was a tall, well built, violent thug, who basically saw his hot sweet girlfriend as an ATM. She charged a pretty penny, imo, for her services. She claims (and it is easy to believe) that more than a few rich old super sweet customers wanted to marry her and show her how a women of her beauty should be treated. A DUH, she wasn't interested.
Yes, she was a stripper/prostitute and the conventional thinking is that *she* is all about the money. Actually, *she* was a romantic who was all about LOVE. She got hooked up with a violent thug from a very bad neighborhood. He didn't give a sh*t about her except for the $$$ she could bring him. He didn't believe in LOVE and saw it as dirty. I happen to believe that he was correct in general. This BS about marriage and all of the garbage that goes with that please just flush the nastiness down the drain. It is basically a fraud by government for the benefit of government actors.
So the thug has this extremely hostile view of marriage. He just sees it as a $$$ scams and so in his relatively tiny brain he connects the dots and decides if marriage is just a scam, then LOVE *must* also be a scam. Well, Mr. Violent Thug puts 2 and 2 together and decides he should profit from this scam known as LOVE. Given the environment he was raised in his empathy consisted of shoot or crush the other person before they do even worse to you. Might is Right. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Bottom line is his sweet girlfriend who worked as a stripper/prostitute was stupidly, imo, doing so out of LOVE and belief in the "equality" garbage. The money she spent on herself or that he spent on her was pretty much ZERO. Unless, you include costumes and makeup and other costs to make her attractive so she can bring home the bacon.
One could argue that she is the exception. I don't know about that: It seems like there are a lot of strippers with loser boyfriends who drain $$$ from them non-stop. Also, strippers too often forego the real money a wealthy old man in love can shower upon them. Yeah, could be ignorance. IMO, they just don't value money nearly as much as drugs, love, music, dancing, clothes, gambling, partying, etc. etc. etc.
"A stripper living in SC gave me her parents phone number in VA. I actually talked to her father. Why?"
She wants to marry you so that she can ROB you blind. Smart move introducing you to her parents assuming they play along for a cut of the money train. It is so simple----strippers are only allowed to care about $$$. It is in the official rule book.
You're right. We're wrong. The strippers love you. They love you, man. They really do. In fact, they want to marry you. But don't let them. No, keep stringing them along, and that way you can have wild sex with each them, and yet not be tied down. Just don't break their poor hearts, big guy.
So, now that we've cleared that up, the answers to your various questions become obvious:
*Why did the stripper offer to change your tire? So you could drive her to the nearest preacher and get hitched!
*Why did the stripper give you her cell and her husband's cell? So you could tell the husband to fuck off, because you were going to steal his wife from him.
*Why did the stripper give her brother $20 to go away? She was hoping you'd propose.
*Why did the stripper give you an answering machine? So she could leave you a marriage proposal.
*Why did the stripper write to you from the Phillipines? Because she didn't ever want you to forget her during her absence, she's just so in love.
*Why did the stripper give you her parents' phone number? Obvious, dummy. So you could ask for her hand in marriage.
*And last but not least, why did the chicken cross the road? Because the chicken was a stripper, and she wanted to get to Shadowcat!
"I have a whole lot more stories of what I call real affection. You guys that have met me in person, know that I am real."
Hmmm . . . I wonder if the guys who have met shadowcat in person can attest to this *real affection*. It may exist. I think those who've seen it in person---excluding shadowcat---might have a clue to if there is more than just $$$ signs in the strippers' eyes.
OK, those of you who've met shadowcat in person: Is he just fooling himself? Please be honest, pro or con. It might save him a world of hurt if these dancers are taking shadowcat's $$$ and pretending to care about him. IMHO, he should just be happy these dancers are doing such a wonderful job regardless of their real feelings.
A stripper sent me flowers via FEDEX. It was paid for by a credit card which gave me her real name. My daughter said "Dad, This is not flowers are us. This was expensive"
OK. I have already admitted to being the biggest Pl on here and I will continue be the same. Like it or join Parodyman.
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm in total rage mode now. Just seething unleashed hellfire of fury.
The cheap ass hoes that I know never send me flowers via FEDEX or even by the stinking USPS. :(
Next time a bitch starts the BS about caring about me, dang sure I'll give it to her with both barrels as to why didn't I get flowers via FEDEX like shadowcat. :(
Women: Totally thoughtless and self-absorbed and $$$ loving. Yes, I appreciate chocolate cake and ice cream and dances on my B-day, but where the HELL are MY FLOWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shadowcat, you've mentioned many examples here, I suspect trying to answer your thread question with "it is real affection." So be it. If it's real to you, it should matter not what any of us have to say about it.
On the positive side, I think strippers are the best place by far to spend $$$ whether the affection is real or not. You may be helping a future physician to pay off student loans and other nefarious forms of enslavement. Or, your $$$ may help the loser boyfriend buy a new shotgun to help assist in securing our liberties. The money may even go for self-medication or recreational altered state adventure or spiritual enlightenment ala Dr. Leary. Perhaps the money will go for educational T-Shirts with uplifting messages like these melons are softer than Charmin----squeeze for yourself. Or, maybe just a new pair of stripper slippers (slippers are sexier than high heels). :)
I think my new will, will leave all my wordly assets to strippers!!! Oops, my will already does that. :)
I find it strange that when njscfan gives shadowcat a little reality check, the old fool starts bitching about me.
All these grossly repetitive threads that shadowcat starts are weak attempts at approval seeking. He wants to be the big man on TUSCL. It is sad really. Does anyone other than bobbyl and clubber buy into his crap?
Becareful! Don't bend over if ludicrouslydifferentfeebleimitationman is around. Seems now, since he is posting about it, he is interested in you and your hershey highway.
I think you guys are totally missing shadowcat's points. Not only does he, for god knows what reason, want the stripper affection to be real, but:
***> He wants to know that he is doing better than the
rest of us with the girls. This is proved not only by all the signs of real affection he gets, but the incredible deals he gets for paid for sex. <***
So I'll go first:
I myself never get signs of real affection. They just want my money, and then won't even give me a smile or a hug goodnight afterward. And I pay at least double what shadowcat does. So he's way ahead of me.
What FONDL said is true and key, of course, that it doesn't matter whether a stripper's affection is real or not. as long as you enjoy her giving it. (I hate it when I lose track of whether some of these points from past go-rounds have been repeated in this thread.)
People who have to keep telling themselves it must be real and people who write off strippers as evil, lying supervillains are two sides of the same coin. It's a really big deal for both to have a black or white answer to the question, where none exists. They must also find it difficult to cope with the pleasure of reading a novel or watching a movie with actors who don't actually live the lives they pretend to on screen. We all engage in some suspension of disbelief with strippers. Some customers are either just unaware of it or in deep denial.
Thanks Bobby. I needed that. I am not trying to be top dog on here. I am just trying to keep the board active. And I try to keep it confined to strip clubs/strippers. Yes I am always talking about myself. What else do I know about? As to MrGuys post that I was responsible for Wondergirl's leaving the program for a while. WTF. Anybody got a quote that I ever even mentioned her in a post?
Wondergirl: Any comment?
For every hate posts about me on here I get 10 times that many emails from buddies that I have met me in person and from others that want to.
If there is any top dog on here, it has to be Bones. He has become a personal friend of mine and he will be back. Yes there will be another convention. The girls want it too.
jablake, the lights came on. I did say that but that was way before she stopped posting. In later posts she recanted about the size of her tits. I did swap some friendly emails with her. So I doubt that I was the reason for her leaving the board.
I didn't realize she recanted about the size of her tits. It sounded like they were WHALES. :) Also, I thought at that time she stopped posting for something like 22 hours.
It was difficult to believe she was a seasoned sex worker because the sex workers in my area get abused big time and yet they seem oblivious to the trash for the most part. But, then other areas may be a lot different: thinking of the pink site it is like many seem never to have met a man or insult before.
Well your tits are probably a more interesting err . . . OK, back to topic:
Do you ever give real affection to older male customers? Remember fake affection doesn't count nor does affection to young hot males or females of any type! ;)
Yes i do. Will anyone believ me? no.
But im sincere in how i act.
If I dont like you I wont bother acting. If I do like you youll know it. Age is nothing but a number, IMO
But I wont be believed
LOL! Of course, you understand that no one will believe you. :)
<just teasing>
OTOH, I can see some readers snarling venomously: A stripper give real affection?! Yeah, and I's Mother Teresa and Mrs. Clinton wrapped in one!!! Strippers only care about $$$s any school boy or girl knows that.
I said no more but I can't resist this last story. My ATF was tied up doing a gig in the Champagne room. She knew that I was waiting for her. The club manager came over to my table, introduced himself and also introduced me to a dancer. he said that your ATF has already paid for a lap dance, so just go back there and enjoy it. Well I already knew the dancer but what I didn't know was that she was secerently(spl) married to him. Any body else ever have a dancer buy you a dance with another stripper ?
The reason for the frowny face was that because the $5 dance wasn't for my benefit. It was the benefit of the girl doing the dance. She was a sweet dog who needed some self confidence. Hers was ZERO and she had NO self-esteem.
My favorite was trying to cajole me into buying a dance from the poor girl. I just made it painfully pelucid that NO MONEY was coming out of my wallet to buy that ugly mutt a dance. Smart ass sees a loop-hole. :) She hands me a $5 and says that I promised!? Yes, I promised NO money was coming out of my wallet. That was the whole shabang. I surely never said I'd get a dance if it was free or paid for by someone else. Then she says have a heart with big dark sad eyes. Oh, damn. Beat down, I did my best to give the poor woman some confidence and suggestions and a pep talk. The favorite was happy and the mutt was happy. It worked out fine as it turned out.
Another time I got something like half a $5 dollar dance. My dancer was a lesbian or bisexual and she wanted a dance from a BIG woman. But, the BIG woman wouldn't give other women dances. The scam was for me to call the BIG woman over and tell her I wanted a 2 girl dance. She was happy. My dancer was happy. I didn't enjoy the blubber even though I did like to see my dancer attack the other one grabbing her every which way. Why only half a dance? I don't know----money was tight. My favorite had some smart ass reason. I did get to watch a 2 girl show, but the BIG woman was disgusting. I couldn't believe how my dancer was drooling over her. The BIG woman just had NO interest in the hottie at all.
Jablake: I don't want THAT kind of "intimacy" with a dancer (or group of dancers). Sounds like they crossed the line into the zone of, expecting you to do undesirable acts because they're "close" to you. Just say no! Go to a different club!
Yes shadowcat that is pretty common for a dancer you spend a lot of money on to buy you a dance from another girl if she is busy and dosen't want you to leave until she gets your money too.
Remember dancers do not find nasty old perverts attractive. This is business to them not affection.
I don't think a different club is the answer. The numbers just don't work from what I can see.
Currently, the RolLexx has a high number of "reject" dancers during the late day shift. Their "rejected" because they don't have the blubber and are too short. For my tastes these girls are Heaven sent. :) It isn't even a question of cheap club v. expensive club. This club currently has girls with the look that I finding stunning. :)
Sounds good?
Most of these girls even those with the best attitudes just aren't willing to provide GFE. Sex? No problem. That just isn't an issue. It has little value.
After spending the $$$ you finally locate the rare dancer who does GFE. Sounds good?
Well, even among those tiny number of dancers who provide GFE the consistency is a real problem. Felicity is a perfect example. She sent me to another level. Go back and she is NO, I can't do that until I'm fighting with my boyfriend. Money isn't even the issue. She still did excellent dances, but it wasn't another level. It was merely top quality. Finally, I get the other level from her and she took a financial beating (lost money via club fees :(. . . ) and then POOF she is gone.
Royalty. What a goofball and fun. :) She had the rare skill and look and GFE meant no biggie to her (a young Gambling dancer in that respect). She then got addicted to the wrong drugs and died almost before my eyes. :(
Gambling dancer. She is very unusual in that GFE to her generally meant nothing. Just part of the ordinary menu. Again and again she delivered top quality service with extreme skill. Even with this extremely unusual dancer the GFE flow isn't steady. She just recently went on strike to do FREE GFE. That isn't a good deal---trust me. I don't know that seems obvious, but too many customers want FREE it seems.
So to summarize: The number of dancers who really turn me on is very low regardless of price or club and in fact I normally have more luck at the cheap clubs. Out of that tiny number with the right look even fewer are willing to do GFE. Sex/extras seem plentiful---big whoop de doo. Next, the GFE providers just are NOT steady suppliers for one reason or another.
A HOT woman provides GFE, then yes I'm willing to suffer some blubber blobs or mutts if that is what she likes.
Looking back at the one stripper that was so much better than any other: It was sort of textbook in "achieving" FREE:
She delivers GFE and the skill or whatever the hell she did was mindblowing. I've experienced NOTHING like it. I go to buy more. NOT FOR SALE. No dances, no nothing. If I wanted just ordinary sex or acted like a normal customer, then she says it is nothing. Pay the money and she'll perform. Most customers in her opinion are just easy because they don't want anything of value. BJ? Whatever. Sex. Whatever. I didn't even know her that long. She is demanding FREE. Please understand: I didn't do anything---She did everything. I'm not attractive or rich or whatever. I don't understand what exactly happened with her. I just wanted to buy more. She says something like that isn't for sale. I think if we made a video it would have been boring to watch----I can't say because it was so different and she was running the show. She is a hooker(stripper)---that is her job and suddenly everything WEIRD, but in a beautiful way. If I was with her again, then maybe the same experience wouldn't occur. She just flamed out on me almost immediately. :(
When I saw her at different club months later her main emotion toward me was hate and contempt. :( (Yes, she sold me dances and then coldly said NOTHING had changed and please don't come back.)
I don't see why accepting money from me was such a deal breaker for her. Just consider it a thank you.
"I am either the biggest PL on this board or am really liked by my favorite dancers."
My guess without knowing shadowcat or the dancers is that he is guilty of wishful thinking. I could be 100% wrong. The difficulty is that a good stripper will make her customer feel good about himself. I think that is great and others will probably disagree because it is dishonest or whatever.
Let's say the dancers are just madly in LOVE with shadowcat. That is more possible, imo, than some of you might be willing to admit. If 300 pound plus women are being drooled over as sex objects, then anything is possible. I would NOT believe there is any demand for HUGE women, but I see it again and again. It isn't a fluke. These women are in demand as unbelieveable as that may seem. And, I see super HOT dancers with low life loser boyfriends. Doesn't seem reasonable or logical at first glance, but again and again these hotties choose "garbage pail" boyfriends. So why wouldn't these same dancers like and choose "garbage pail" customers? Seems as logical as choosing a loser boyfriend or choosing a 300 pounder as a sex object. :)
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To be very clear: I'm NOT saying shadowcat is a "garbage pail" customer. I'm saying a dancer who chooses a "garbage pail" boyfriend may just as easily fall for "garbage pail" customers.
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So my point is that even if shadowcat was LOVED by dancer after dancer what would that prove? Should he get a medal of honor??? The dancers may even LOVE shadowcat and they might be 100% correct in their judgment. :)
Some dancers have been extremely sweet and generous to me. That does NOT mean necessarily that they LOVE me or that they want my $$$ or even that they LIKE me. It may mean simply that they are very nice people or that they like to "help" the pathetic i.e. ME! :) I'm old, poor, weak, unattractive, angry, etc. and yet some dancers are super sweet to me. I think that may say much more about the dancer than it says about me. I sure as hell don't think I deserve medals or applause because some strippers have been extraordinary in making me feel appreciated or liked or wanted or etc. And, I don't think strippers are just a bunch of money grubbing clones because if that were the case, then I'd get pretty much zero service. I just don't have the financial power of *real* customers at this stage in my life.
jablake: I once again feel that I have to defend myself. Your comments are not nearly as bad as some others. I am 66 years old and am drawing full SS retirement pay. $1620/mo after 25% taken out for federal taxes I have been working for the same company for over 41 years and my yearly salary is in the six figure category. I have no intention of retiring until I am at least 70, unless my health fades. I was married for 27 years to a girl 14 years younger than me. I have two grandchildren. But I have still not lost my interest in sex. I am smart enough to know that the only way I am going to get sex from young women, is to pay for it. But the young women that I have chosen are strippers. But they know that I am not looking for a life time partner. Just a little fun.I know that my prices are lower than what other guys have to pay.Why? My repeat business and trust in me.
I didn't intend for my comments to be bad in the least. I just see ime that generally an older man would like to think that the strippers care about him. I don't see anything wrong about that . . . it is just that too often it is wishful thinking. That doesn't mean that is your situation at all.
I also believe that it is possible that your strippers care about you, just don't be shocked how dead cold some of these strippers can be at times. And the coldness may have nothing to do with you in any real sense.
There was an old man at Angels that everyone seemed to LOVE. Yes, he spent $$$, but after he left the dancers were still smiling and commenting on how sweet he was etc. He was an exceptional person from what I could see: Great sense of humor, fun to be around, generous, etc. The dancers definitely liked him. It was fantastic to see how he could brighten people's days. I remember after he was gone one of the dancers saying that is one sweet customer and some other dancers were chiming in saying they wish there were more happy customers like him. Then she started relating some of the old man's jokes and those dancers were having a blast. He is an exceptional person. By contrast, I'd be seen as dead cold and in real need of cheering up. :)
If that exceptional customer told me the dancers cared about him, then I would definitely agree based on what I was seeing especially after he was gone and they were doing girl talk.
There's a retired dancer from The Trap who lives just down the street from me. She must be out of the business for at least 15 years.
That ex-dancer loves to talk. And, one of the things she loved to talk about were some of her wonderful customers at The Trap. This is a dancer who was a hottie and yet she still fondly remembered nice old men over a decade later. She is just a very good person who likes to make people happy. Perhaps she likes males a little more than is socially acceptable. It wasn't like she wanted to say NO to sexual advances.
Another lady, a prostitute in very bad shape, loved to talk about the successful men she met in the business and how she hoped some would become regulars because they treated her special. She was probably an exception to the rule. I asked her about her bad condition as she said that she enjoyed life way too much. She didn't understand hookers who didn't enjoy their work. She considered her work to be a never ending party and she didn't eat right or sleep right and drank too much and just didn't think about the future. The past however was worth remembering over and over again. She had wanted to marry, but she was afraid that she needed a lot more than one man and that was one regret that she had; missing out on a family.
I saw this old man, beat up worse than me, and this young woman providing what imo was a powerful example of a GFE. It looked real. Doesn't mean it was real. But, her performance was impressive assumming she was faking, which that would be the normal conclusion. The young woman was too HOT and old man too BEAT UP. It seemed impossible that she could have feelings for him other than WALLET WALLET WALLET!!! :)
He appeared to be supremely happy and I think that she could do a video expressing her total disgust and his "trance" would NOT be broken. There is just NO incentive for him to see reality (assuming she is just acting) because he is getting very powerful positive stimulus. And, it is a hell of a lot different than a fuck and suck.
A fuck and suck: I don't think there is any shortage of women willing to provide that service. I could easily see a line forming. GFE service? I don't think there would be too many takers. Gambling dancer would definitely try and get to the front of that short line, but she, imo, is very unusual.
I may even be wrong about the scarcity of GFE. This is just what I see and experience. Other services, such as FS - BJ, those look to be plentiful and the price isn't too bad. The big thing is, there doesn't seem to be a shortage if that is what you need even if you're ugly and old. One provider is being a pest---there are a 100+ eager beavers in line. Just pick one. No biggie.
GFE? That seems a lot different and perhaps in a different country it is just no big deal. That is difficult to say because many men are just thrilled with suck and fuck----to them that is a big deal. GFE? It may have zero value to them.
I also believe that if a man can get a woman to play the GFE role especially over a long period of time that "flame out" is normal or at least not uncommon. It doesn't mean the customer is special or a stud or any conclusion giving the man a bit of credit.
"Flame out" means the woman wants to eliminate the pay for play aspect and convert the relationship to FREE. IMO, I don't think this is good for the woman or the customer. I have NO IDEA how to solve this issue. My success at fixing it is a total ZERO!!! :(
Gambling dancer gave this BS that I had violated the role play by heaven forbid actually caring about her (as if other customers don't care about her). I didn't violate anything. She is the one that is supposed to be acting---that is her JOB! That a customer may develop feelings shouldn't, imo, equal game over or game FREE. It just means that the customer is confused or in a trance or he may see the reality, but appreciates the value of the service greatly or of her or etc. She made a big deal out of "but, you're not acting." Yes and no. Having real feelings doesn't mean that everything I do is 100% as it might appear to her. The real feelings could be just admiration for her skill level or kindness or beauty or professionalism or etc. She doesn't for a moment need to reciprocate those feelings, imo.
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I think that the "connection" between a stripper and her customer is indeed "real," but only in the sense that it's a deep connection along the model of whatever connection the stripper is capable of making. (Perhaps the man is only as capable of that level of depth and commitment, too.) I've found out that I know as much, if not more, about a given stripper's private life, after a little bit of sitting with her before going to the private room, as I do about anyone I've ever dated, and probably as much as some of her boyfriends know. She just doesn't let me fuck her for free, but that doesn't mean she isn't "feeling intimate." (To most females, sexuality isn't something they render up because it "means depth" as much as because "it was fun" and "he was masculine." So they're likely, civilian or stripper, to fuck those who are aggressive while also manipulating for attention those who are drippy.)
So, really, it's a non-question. The affection is as "real" as a stripper gets. But that doesn't mean there's much to it.
If you have never paid her a dime her life, she's knows you never will, but takes you home and fucks your brains anyway, then it's real. Anything less... It's stripper shit.
YES Sirey Bob, deys attracted to me----BIG TIME. :) And, if those that aren't attracted often ooze real affection or real hate; not enough actresses!
Yes, generally if the stripper is attracted to you then something is "wrong" with you----at least that is the case with the strippers I've known.
But, but, but -- we're still not "friends," not in the normal sense. It's a business relationship, and if it were not for the business relationship, we'd never know each other. If I stopped paying my dentist money, he'd stop providing me with services, simple as that. Same with my customers. I like them, but I will not keep providing them with my services if they stop paying me.
So it is not the case that the stripper who is nice to you has to be lying. She can be sincere, she can genuinely like you, and the chit-chat, gifts, etc., can be heartfelt. But it's still all based on a business relationship, not something else. It's not a friendship.
Bobby asks why do these questions keep coming up. Good question, but he doesn't provide an answer. Here's my answer: there is a certain class of customer that usually has the following characteristics: older; unmarried (or in a marriage that does not provide his main source of emotional support); lonely; way too much time on his hands. This is the kind of guy who might spend 6 or 8 hours in a club in a single sitting (yikes!). This is also the type of person who can somehow afford to take several days a month off to travel interstate just to visit a strip club.
That kind of customer will invest much more emotional baggage into the stripper relationship. They won't want to see it as a business relationship. They will want to see it as a "friendship." Secretly, subconsciously, I think they are even looking for a girlfriend.
We have guys on this site who have seen ATFs for years (years!); think of them as their "best friend"; don't have sex with them; and yet still pay them money!!! Guys like that are romanticizing the stripper thing, and they cannot think clearly about this. And that's why this question keeps coming up.
What if the dentist says that she is going to do all dental work for free? That is good news? I guess, if I'm dead broke and want to keep my teeth. What if the lawyer says he is going to do all legal work for free? Gee, if I'm dead broke and want to avoid a government prison, then thank goodness for the help.
If the stripper that I've known for YEARS demands to provide all sexual services for FREE, then is that good news??? Really, those who want free must be very different than me. I LOVE cheap; that's what my budget allows. It would be even better if I could be generous with everyone who does a good job or at least tries their best.
I think it is absolutely 100% insane to want or be happy about absolutely FREE service from a sex worker. You might as well just go on the dating market if that is the garbage you are interested in! And, yes "free" from a regular woman is also garbage, imo.
So far, Gambling dancer has kept her word. She still isn't accepting money----hint, hint, hint, this is bad news. She is a sex worker and surprise surprise surpise---I would like to buy what she has been willing to sell for YEARS. Those who think this is something good or should be strived for need to be hit upside the head with a mackeral (sp?)! (No, I will NOT accept "free" from her. BTW, a "freebie" now and then isn't truly free, but rather just good business. She wants to throw in a few freebies and that is fine and dandy.)
Sex work is NOTHING like any other job. You site dentists for instance. A dentist, compared to a stripper is a highly esteemed profession in our society. If a child tells mommy and daddy she wants to grow to be a dentist, mommy and daddy are going to be overjoyed. If she tells them she wants to be a stripper, how do you think they will react? Panic mode. How many of these girls do you think well strangers they meet at party's their real job? Many (most, IME) hide it from their families even.
I don't care what anyone on these boards says, I know there is huge collective guilt with these women about what they do. And then, as if whoring wasn't hard enough on their self-esteem they, very often make matters even worse for themselves by getting into some dark deception (don't get me wrong, I'm all for a stripper telling a guy she loves his huge cock, if it's mutually understood it's just part of the act, but many go to unethical extreme well beyond this). Some even start stealing outright.
Along these lines, I will say that few, if any, jobs promote the same contemptuous treatment of customers as the stripping culture does.
Nope, stripping ain't just another job. Ain't buying it.
Maybe it should be like that, or maybe it will be at some time in the future but not in the world we live in right now.
;p
The employee was HOT and had a super strong sex drive (like her mom). Anyway, the employee thought hooking was EVIL because it took advantage of men and besides it made NO sense. Why charge a man when he is giving you pleasure or at least trying to??? Sex should be FREE. I don't know where she got the nutty idea sex should be FREE, but it was firmly planted in her mind. Did employee have a problem having sex with OLD and FAT men? Nope, not a problem in the least. She did have a problem with married men (she thought it was against the Bible) and with blacks (too huge and race mixing is against the Bible according to her).
Well, I did say it was "much cleaner." :) If I had a daughter would I want her to be a high paid lawyer or a high paid stripper? I'd definitely be leaning toward the sex work especially if that was what she was into. Good lawyers? Sure. But, the system is total filth. A good lawyer is like a bar of soap in a septic tank; or a drop of water in the desert.
It's funny a friend of mine HATES lawyers with a passion and yet they saved his ass big time for an amount he considered to be play money i.e. a joke. The amount was a little over $20,000 and he told me at the time $100,000 would have been cheap. And, for him it was nothing.
He was arrested on a gun charges and was facing heavy duty prison time. Lawyers saved the day. The Second Amendment especially at that time (and even now---for the most part) was a total joke. He has a right to bear arms? I hadn't met any high priced lawyers who viewed the Second Amendment in that light and his lawyers sure as hell weren't going to risk the wrath of a judge with such a "stupid" argument. Bottom line, the lawyers did their job quickly and for his budget extremely cheaply.
It makes no sense that he HATES lawyers; at least the way he has explained it to me. He was happy with the price and happy with the end result. I guess he wanted to yap about the Second Amendment?
He LOVES the police----he seems to forget the police are ones who arrested him. :) Maybe he thinks the police were right and the lawyers were wrong? Instead of supporting his family and a small business perhaps he feels a government prison cell is where he actually belongs?
He HATES strippers, but loves to buy their services. I guess somehow it makes sense? Someone does good and that equals HATE and someone does bad that equals LOVE? I would say his IQ is just a little over a 100, FWTW.
Just like the first 101 times you've asked, the answer is that it's a little bit of each - real affection and fake. Many strippers know that it's good business to treat their regular customers like true friends with the kind of gestures you describe. They can sense when it makes a PL feel special, so they lay it on extra thick, whether they truly like him or think he's a bit of an ass. However, many strippers are also somewhat selective about who they dance for. It's not based solely on money. It makes their job a little easier and more pleasant when they can fake intimacy with somebody for whom they have at least some real affection.
Ultimately, you can never know to what degree it's real or fake. They usually don't know themselves. Anybody who thinks he's got it figured out is bullshitting himself.
Also, even if it's real the next day you may find a knife in your back (as DickJohnson pointed out).
It's forced affection by the dancer, but it's still a form of affection. This "affection" from the dancer is real in the sense that it emotionally drains the dancer the same way as if it were real. Customers always say it's fake, but forced is more accurate.
Dancers always talk about how they're emotional and physically drained by their customers. The affection is still real, it's just that it's forced. If these affections were totally fake, then the dancer wouldn't become drained by it.
So, to you, it feels real, and in a way, it is real, it's just that it's forced or sold to you for money, just like sex would be. The more you spend, the more the dancer will sell you emotional intimacy.
What can make me nervous is a dancer that I'm not attracted to and she won't leave me alone even after she knows I'm not paying her any money for anything. I vaguely remember one dancer that bugged me several nights. Maybe she thought it was about the money until she offered free dances one night. I still said no. She offered to take me to her house but I still said no. Then a light went off in her head and she must have realized I wasn't attracted to her.
I was telling her about cheap hookers/strippers that will get soaking wet and get a racing heart and etc. She being a know-it-all on the subject of hookers since she is a hooker says that I'm full of shit or easily fooled; a total john. Her pimp boyfriend corrects her: She is stunned. The look on her stunned face was priceless. :) Her next response is that she would like to pay for a woman who can get soaking wet and get a racing heart and etc. She wants to feel passion like that and wants to know why these cheap hookers can't be transported to a higher pay locale. :)
The real person behind the stripper/hooker happened to be a very sweet person. But, when I first met her she came off like she was a clone from the pink site (this is way before there was a pink site; pre-internet). :(
That is especially amusing coming from her because she believes even FREE pussy isn't free and that paid pussy is a bargain. Even when a woman just spreads her legs and welcomes all comers that wouldn't by her be seen as truly free. What she means by FREE is that the woman does it because she likes you for you. Sounds damn expensive to me; the strippers are looking like a steal. :)
A stripper offers to help me change a flat tire on my truck. Why?
A stripper gives me her cell number and below it gives me her husbands name and cell number. She says that if I ever need help to call her and if I cannot get a hold of her to call him. Why?
A stripper gives her brother $20 to get lost so that we can be alone. Why?
A stripper brings a cake and gift into the club for my birthday. Why?
Bash on!!!
We're not bashing we're just being realists. Everything you are saying can be true, but it's still a business, not a friendship, and if you stopped paying, the relationship would be over.
There's nothing unique about this to strippers.
*A client takes me out to dinner. Why?
*A client invites me to vacation at his home for a week. Why?
*Another client invites me to use her beach house for a week. Why?
*A vendor takes me out to lunch. Why?
*Another vendor buys me wine and an elaborate fruit basket. Why?
*A colleague sends me an elaborate basket of fruits and chocolates. Why?
*I receive countless holiday/xmas cards from vendors, clients, colleagues, etc. every year. Why, why, why?
I'll tell you why: IT'S GOOD BUSINESS THAT'S WHY! In any business (in mine anyway) that kind of thing happens dozens of times a year. It will most especially happen in the direction of a service provider giving bennies to a customer. The strippers are the service providers. You're the customer. That's why it's happening.
Don't believe me? Show up to the club, but stop spending money. Don't buy drinks, don't buy lapdances, don't even pay the cover (if there is one). Tell all the strippers you are flat broke and can never afford to spend any more money on them again. And see what happens.
I seriously doubt that strippers ever think in these terms. In other words, they themselves wouldn't know the answer. And frankly who care, it is what it is. Enjoy it for what it's worth.
I hang out at dives----I don't think these are the same women as you'll find at Tootsies for the most part. And, for goodness sakes the Mons ain't a dive. That is way upscale--$30? dances. I'm talking hardcore clubs that are cheap i.e. $5 lap dances. I doubt that I would have much appeal or success at an average or upscale club---but, then I wouldn't have the funds to find out.
The dancers love losers right? I'm a big loser financially so why wouldn't they love me? :)
I'm exactly---except for age and looks---what a dancer is looking for. I spent most of my early life surrounded my that culture. Also, I got to spend time among the elite. :) Yes, doesn't seem too probable. Not a happy situation going back and forth from skid row to extreme wealth. I guess it is sorta like the maid's kids who get to live it up while their mom works in the big house, but come sun down it is back to the ghetto. That wasn't my situation, but it would have been preferable.
Anyway, I'm not scoring strippers without paying. That, imo, would be completely bonkers. I've known strippers for years and years and because we are engage in role playing over a very long period of time some dancers either get confused or pretend to get confused. The bottom line is the stripper stops selling and demands a "real" relationship. Real relationships, imo, are disgusting----that is what I see, over and over again. Just pay the money for a *pretend* girlfriend.
I'd be turned off completely by what you seem to want, which is just sex. I need the fraud/game/acting, whatever you want to call it. Play that game and see if some strippers don't want to give it FREE and refuse to sell. :(
Also, if you want FREE, then try the tongue action and FREE should be 100% guaranteed unless somehow you are very unskilled and or don't put in the time----20 minutes at least of just lapping it up. I wouldn't do that (I'd like to, btw)---these are working girls and I'm way too afraid of disease. :(
A stripper gives me an answering machine so that she can leave me messages. Shekitout will love this one. She sought information from him before buying it. I'll bet he was pissed when he found out that it was for me. Why?
Probably they'd want to *waste* their time hanging out with you when it isn't busy or far worse when it is busy. :( I'm speaking of experience with dancers at the very bottom of the income scale. Real low life clubs; the lower the better. Tootsies, imo, is exactly what a club shouldn't be---if, I had money then I might feel differently.
Who wants to steal a dancer's time when the club is busy? I'll tell you it is a very bad feeling. :( It is a bad feeling even when you know that she is a "lazy" dancer. You feel bad because you think that if you weren't there she might stop "wasting" time and start trying to make some money. Often that isn't the case, btw. She'd loaf if you are there or not, but it still feels very depressing. You have to almost be a cheerleader! :(
I'm not bashing, but I think those that disagree with you have very real points.
From what you've related, it just doesn't seem like you've spent enough time with the dancers for it to be anything other than their thinking of you as a nice good customer. Once a month visits seem like NOTHING.
Try and remember some of these dancers can not only change their feelings FAST, but some are extremely cold blooded. Cold blooded is only a negative if you want real, btw.
A stripper goes with her mother to the Philippines to settle the estate of an aunt. She writes to me from there. Why? Oops this one got intercepted by my ex wife.
BTW, just because it is good business doesn't mean that is the reason. Some dancers have relatively little interest in doing good business or making money.
They're often druggies or perhaps worse "love junkies." Why do hang out with the loser who abuses you? O, it is true LOVE. These girls are serious: LOVE rules for them. Then you get the squares who only see $$$ signs and wrongly assume all dancers have their same $$$ mindset. :(
Money grubbing generally is a turnoff for many dancers----they're better off and happier with their "loser" boyfriend. You know, the one that doesn't see everything thru the lense of $$$ signs. The irresponsible one who can't even properly take care of himself.
A stripper living in SC gave me her parents phone number in VA. I actually talked to her father. Why?
My buddy was a tall, well built, violent thug, who basically saw his hot sweet girlfriend as an ATM. She charged a pretty penny, imo, for her services. She claims (and it is easy to believe) that more than a few rich old super sweet customers wanted to marry her and show her how a women of her beauty should be treated. A DUH, she wasn't interested.
Yes, she was a stripper/prostitute and the conventional thinking is that *she* is all about the money. Actually, *she* was a romantic who was all about LOVE. She got hooked up with a violent thug from a very bad neighborhood. He didn't give a sh*t about her except for the $$$ she could bring him. He didn't believe in LOVE and saw it as dirty. I happen to believe that he was correct in general. This BS about marriage and all of the garbage that goes with that please just flush the nastiness down the drain. It is basically a fraud by government for the benefit of government actors.
So the thug has this extremely hostile view of marriage. He just sees it as a $$$ scams and so in his relatively tiny brain he connects the dots and decides if marriage is just a scam, then LOVE *must* also be a scam. Well, Mr. Violent Thug puts 2 and 2 together and decides he should profit from this scam known as LOVE. Given the environment he was raised in his empathy consisted of shoot or crush the other person before they do even worse to you. Might is Right. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Bottom line is his sweet girlfriend who worked as a stripper/prostitute was stupidly, imo, doing so out of LOVE and belief in the "equality" garbage. The money she spent on herself or that he spent on her was pretty much ZERO. Unless, you include costumes and makeup and other costs to make her attractive so she can bring home the bacon.
One could argue that she is the exception. I don't know about that: It seems like there are a lot of strippers with loser boyfriends who drain $$$ from them non-stop. Also, strippers too often forego the real money a wealthy old man in love can shower upon them. Yeah, could be ignorance. IMO, they just don't value money nearly as much as drugs, love, music, dancing, clothes, gambling, partying, etc. etc. etc.
She wants to marry you so that she can ROB you blind. Smart move introducing you to her parents assuming they play along for a cut of the money train. It is so simple----strippers are only allowed to care about $$$. It is in the official rule book.
You're right. We're wrong. The strippers love you. They love you, man. They really do. In fact, they want to marry you. But don't let them. No, keep stringing them along, and that way you can have wild sex with each them, and yet not be tied down. Just don't break their poor hearts, big guy.
So, now that we've cleared that up, the answers to your various questions become obvious:
*Why did the stripper offer to change your tire? So you could drive her to the nearest preacher and get hitched!
*Why did the stripper give you her cell and her husband's cell? So you could tell the husband to fuck off, because you were going to steal his wife from him.
*Why did the stripper give her brother $20 to go away? She was hoping you'd propose.
*Why did the stripper give you an answering machine? So she could leave you a marriage proposal.
*Why did the stripper write to you from the Phillipines? Because she didn't ever want you to forget her during her absence, she's just so in love.
*Why did the stripper give you her parents' phone number? Obvious, dummy. So you could ask for her hand in marriage.
*And last but not least, why did the chicken cross the road? Because the chicken was a stripper, and she wanted to get to Shadowcat!
Satisfied? Can we be done with this subject now?
Hmmm . . . I wonder if the guys who have met shadowcat in person can attest to this *real affection*. It may exist. I think those who've seen it in person---excluding shadowcat---might have a clue to if there is more than just $$$ signs in the strippers' eyes.
OK, those of you who've met shadowcat in person: Is he just fooling himself? Please be honest, pro or con. It might save him a world of hurt if these dancers are taking shadowcat's $$$ and pretending to care about him. IMHO, he should just be happy these dancers are doing such a wonderful job regardless of their real feelings.
A stripper sent me flowers via FEDEX. It was paid for by a credit card which gave me her real name. My daughter said "Dad, This is not flowers are us. This was expensive"
OK. I have already admitted to being the biggest Pl on here and I will continue be the same. Like it or join Parodyman.
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm in total rage mode now. Just seething unleashed hellfire of fury.
The cheap ass hoes that I know never send me flowers via FEDEX or even by the stinking USPS. :(
Next time a bitch starts the BS about caring about me, dang sure I'll give it to her with both barrels as to why didn't I get flowers via FEDEX like shadowcat. :(
Women: Totally thoughtless and self-absorbed and $$$ loving. Yes, I appreciate chocolate cake and ice cream and dances on my B-day, but where the HELL are MY FLOWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On the positive side, I think strippers are the best place by far to spend $$$ whether the affection is real or not. You may be helping a future physician to pay off student loans and other nefarious forms of enslavement. Or, your $$$ may help the loser boyfriend buy a new shotgun to help assist in securing our liberties. The money may even go for self-medication or recreational altered state adventure or spiritual enlightenment ala Dr. Leary. Perhaps the money will go for educational T-Shirts with uplifting messages like these melons are softer than Charmin----squeeze for yourself. Or, maybe just a new pair of stripper slippers (slippers are sexier than high heels). :)
I think my new will, will leave all my wordly assets to strippers!!! Oops, my will already does that. :)
All these grossly repetitive threads that shadowcat starts are weak attempts at approval seeking. He wants to be the big man on TUSCL. It is sad really. Does anyone other than bobbyl and clubber buy into his crap?
Becareful! Don't bend over if ludicrouslydifferentfeebleimitationman is around. Seems now, since he is posting about it, he is interested in you and your hershey highway.
***> He wants to know that he is doing better than the
rest of us with the girls. This is proved not only by all the signs of real affection he gets, but the incredible deals he gets for paid for sex. <***
So I'll go first:
I myself never get signs of real affection. They just want my money, and then won't even give me a smile or a hug goodnight afterward. And I pay at least double what shadowcat does. So he's way ahead of me.
Who's next?
People who have to keep telling themselves it must be real and people who write off strippers as evil, lying supervillains are two sides of the same coin. It's a really big deal for both to have a black or white answer to the question, where none exists. They must also find it difficult to cope with the pleasure of reading a novel or watching a movie with actors who don't actually live the lives they pretend to on screen. We all engage in some suspension of disbelief with strippers. Some customers are either just unaware of it or in deep denial.
Wondergirl: Any comment?
For every hate posts about me on here I get 10 times that many emails from buddies that I have met me in person and from others that want to.
If there is any top dog on here, it has to be Bones. He has become a personal friend of mine and he will be back. Yes there will be another convention. The girls want it too.
You were nasty to wondergrl5, imo. You claimed her titties couldn't be as advertised for her frame and basically said she was fraud.
The memory lights coming on?
I didn't realize she recanted about the size of her tits. It sounded like they were WHALES. :) Also, I thought at that time she stopped posting for something like 22 hours.
It was difficult to believe she was a seasoned sex worker because the sex workers in my area get abused big time and yet they seem oblivious to the trash for the most part. But, then other areas may be a lot different: thinking of the pink site it is like many seem never to have met a man or insult before.
I explained you beliefs of how to take measurements were wrong
Now any questions for me pm me or star a thread
Lets get back to the topic
Well your tits are probably a more interesting err . . . OK, back to topic:
Do you ever give real affection to older male customers? Remember fake affection doesn't count nor does affection to young hot males or females of any type! ;)
But im sincere in how i act.
If I dont like you I wont bother acting. If I do like you youll know it. Age is nothing but a number, IMO
But I wont be believed
reverting back to the dumb act ha ha ha
affection real
the rest satire
<just teasing>
OTOH, I can see some readers snarling venomously: A stripper give real affection?! Yeah, and I's Mother Teresa and Mrs. Clinton wrapped in one!!! Strippers only care about $$$s any school boy or girl knows that.
Actually, yes. :(
The reason for the frowny face was that because the $5 dance wasn't for my benefit. It was the benefit of the girl doing the dance. She was a sweet dog who needed some self confidence. Hers was ZERO and she had NO self-esteem.
My favorite was trying to cajole me into buying a dance from the poor girl. I just made it painfully pelucid that NO MONEY was coming out of my wallet to buy that ugly mutt a dance. Smart ass sees a loop-hole. :) She hands me a $5 and says that I promised!? Yes, I promised NO money was coming out of my wallet. That was the whole shabang. I surely never said I'd get a dance if it was free or paid for by someone else. Then she says have a heart with big dark sad eyes. Oh, damn. Beat down, I did my best to give the poor woman some confidence and suggestions and a pep talk. The favorite was happy and the mutt was happy. It worked out fine as it turned out.
Another time I got something like half a $5 dollar dance. My dancer was a lesbian or bisexual and she wanted a dance from a BIG woman. But, the BIG woman wouldn't give other women dances. The scam was for me to call the BIG woman over and tell her I wanted a 2 girl dance. She was happy. My dancer was happy. I didn't enjoy the blubber even though I did like to see my dancer attack the other one grabbing her every which way. Why only half a dance? I don't know----money was tight. My favorite had some smart ass reason. I did get to watch a 2 girl show, but the BIG woman was disgusting. I couldn't believe how my dancer was drooling over her. The BIG woman just had NO interest in the hottie at all.
Remember dancers do not find nasty old perverts attractive. This is business to them not affection.
I don't think a different club is the answer. The numbers just don't work from what I can see.
Currently, the RolLexx has a high number of "reject" dancers during the late day shift. Their "rejected" because they don't have the blubber and are too short. For my tastes these girls are Heaven sent. :) It isn't even a question of cheap club v. expensive club. This club currently has girls with the look that I finding stunning. :)
Sounds good?
Most of these girls even those with the best attitudes just aren't willing to provide GFE. Sex? No problem. That just isn't an issue. It has little value.
After spending the $$$ you finally locate the rare dancer who does GFE. Sounds good?
Well, even among those tiny number of dancers who provide GFE the consistency is a real problem. Felicity is a perfect example. She sent me to another level. Go back and she is NO, I can't do that until I'm fighting with my boyfriend. Money isn't even the issue. She still did excellent dances, but it wasn't another level. It was merely top quality. Finally, I get the other level from her and she took a financial beating (lost money via club fees :(. . . ) and then POOF she is gone.
Royalty. What a goofball and fun. :) She had the rare skill and look and GFE meant no biggie to her (a young Gambling dancer in that respect). She then got addicted to the wrong drugs and died almost before my eyes. :(
Gambling dancer. She is very unusual in that GFE to her generally meant nothing. Just part of the ordinary menu. Again and again she delivered top quality service with extreme skill. Even with this extremely unusual dancer the GFE flow isn't steady. She just recently went on strike to do FREE GFE. That isn't a good deal---trust me. I don't know that seems obvious, but too many customers want FREE it seems.
So to summarize: The number of dancers who really turn me on is very low regardless of price or club and in fact I normally have more luck at the cheap clubs. Out of that tiny number with the right look even fewer are willing to do GFE. Sex/extras seem plentiful---big whoop de doo. Next, the GFE providers just are NOT steady suppliers for one reason or another.
A HOT woman provides GFE, then yes I'm willing to suffer some blubber blobs or mutts if that is what she likes.
She delivers GFE and the skill or whatever the hell she did was mindblowing. I've experienced NOTHING like it. I go to buy more. NOT FOR SALE. No dances, no nothing. If I wanted just ordinary sex or acted like a normal customer, then she says it is nothing. Pay the money and she'll perform. Most customers in her opinion are just easy because they don't want anything of value. BJ? Whatever. Sex. Whatever. I didn't even know her that long. She is demanding FREE. Please understand: I didn't do anything---She did everything. I'm not attractive or rich or whatever. I don't understand what exactly happened with her. I just wanted to buy more. She says something like that isn't for sale. I think if we made a video it would have been boring to watch----I can't say because it was so different and she was running the show. She is a hooker(stripper)---that is her job and suddenly everything WEIRD, but in a beautiful way. If I was with her again, then maybe the same experience wouldn't occur. She just flamed out on me almost immediately. :(
When I saw her at different club months later her main emotion toward me was hate and contempt. :( (Yes, she sold me dances and then coldly said NOTHING had changed and please don't come back.)
I don't see why accepting money from me was such a deal breaker for her. Just consider it a thank you.
My guess without knowing shadowcat or the dancers is that he is guilty of wishful thinking. I could be 100% wrong. The difficulty is that a good stripper will make her customer feel good about himself. I think that is great and others will probably disagree because it is dishonest or whatever.
Let's say the dancers are just madly in LOVE with shadowcat. That is more possible, imo, than some of you might be willing to admit. If 300 pound plus women are being drooled over as sex objects, then anything is possible. I would NOT believe there is any demand for HUGE women, but I see it again and again. It isn't a fluke. These women are in demand as unbelieveable as that may seem. And, I see super HOT dancers with low life loser boyfriends. Doesn't seem reasonable or logical at first glance, but again and again these hotties choose "garbage pail" boyfriends. So why wouldn't these same dancers like and choose "garbage pail" customers? Seems as logical as choosing a loser boyfriend or choosing a 300 pounder as a sex object. :)
***************************************************************
To be very clear: I'm NOT saying shadowcat is a "garbage pail" customer. I'm saying a dancer who chooses a "garbage pail" boyfriend may just as easily fall for "garbage pail" customers.
***************************************************************
So my point is that even if shadowcat was LOVED by dancer after dancer what would that prove? Should he get a medal of honor??? The dancers may even LOVE shadowcat and they might be 100% correct in their judgment. :)
Some dancers have been extremely sweet and generous to me. That does NOT mean necessarily that they LOVE me or that they want my $$$ or even that they LIKE me. It may mean simply that they are very nice people or that they like to "help" the pathetic i.e. ME! :) I'm old, poor, weak, unattractive, angry, etc. and yet some dancers are super sweet to me. I think that may say much more about the dancer than it says about me. I sure as hell don't think I deserve medals or applause because some strippers have been extraordinary in making me feel appreciated or liked or wanted or etc. And, I don't think strippers are just a bunch of money grubbing clones because if that were the case, then I'd get pretty much zero service. I just don't have the financial power of *real* customers at this stage in my life.
I didn't intend for my comments to be bad in the least. I just see ime that generally an older man would like to think that the strippers care about him. I don't see anything wrong about that . . . it is just that too often it is wishful thinking. That doesn't mean that is your situation at all.
I also believe that it is possible that your strippers care about you, just don't be shocked how dead cold some of these strippers can be at times. And the coldness may have nothing to do with you in any real sense.
There was an old man at Angels that everyone seemed to LOVE. Yes, he spent $$$, but after he left the dancers were still smiling and commenting on how sweet he was etc. He was an exceptional person from what I could see: Great sense of humor, fun to be around, generous, etc. The dancers definitely liked him. It was fantastic to see how he could brighten people's days. I remember after he was gone one of the dancers saying that is one sweet customer and some other dancers were chiming in saying they wish there were more happy customers like him. Then she started relating some of the old man's jokes and those dancers were having a blast. He is an exceptional person. By contrast, I'd be seen as dead cold and in real need of cheering up. :)
If that exceptional customer told me the dancers cared about him, then I would definitely agree based on what I was seeing especially after he was gone and they were doing girl talk.
That ex-dancer loves to talk. And, one of the things she loved to talk about were some of her wonderful customers at The Trap. This is a dancer who was a hottie and yet she still fondly remembered nice old men over a decade later. She is just a very good person who likes to make people happy. Perhaps she likes males a little more than is socially acceptable. It wasn't like she wanted to say NO to sexual advances.
Another lady, a prostitute in very bad shape, loved to talk about the successful men she met in the business and how she hoped some would become regulars because they treated her special. She was probably an exception to the rule. I asked her about her bad condition as she said that she enjoyed life way too much. She didn't understand hookers who didn't enjoy their work. She considered her work to be a never ending party and she didn't eat right or sleep right and drank too much and just didn't think about the future. The past however was worth remembering over and over again. She had wanted to marry, but she was afraid that she needed a lot more than one man and that was one regret that she had; missing out on a family.
you may have never met a sincere dancer yet
but if your not a dancer then your POV is hypothetical
I saw this old man, beat up worse than me, and this young woman providing what imo was a powerful example of a GFE. It looked real. Doesn't mean it was real. But, her performance was impressive assumming she was faking, which that would be the normal conclusion. The young woman was too HOT and old man too BEAT UP. It seemed impossible that she could have feelings for him other than WALLET WALLET WALLET!!! :)
He appeared to be supremely happy and I think that she could do a video expressing her total disgust and his "trance" would NOT be broken. There is just NO incentive for him to see reality (assuming she is just acting) because he is getting very powerful positive stimulus. And, it is a hell of a lot different than a fuck and suck.
A fuck and suck: I don't think there is any shortage of women willing to provide that service. I could easily see a line forming. GFE service? I don't think there would be too many takers. Gambling dancer would definitely try and get to the front of that short line, but she, imo, is very unusual.
I may even be wrong about the scarcity of GFE. This is just what I see and experience. Other services, such as FS - BJ, those look to be plentiful and the price isn't too bad. The big thing is, there doesn't seem to be a shortage if that is what you need even if you're ugly and old. One provider is being a pest---there are a 100+ eager beavers in line. Just pick one. No biggie.
GFE? That seems a lot different and perhaps in a different country it is just no big deal. That is difficult to say because many men are just thrilled with suck and fuck----to them that is a big deal. GFE? It may have zero value to them.
I also believe that if a man can get a woman to play the GFE role especially over a long period of time that "flame out" is normal or at least not uncommon. It doesn't mean the customer is special or a stud or any conclusion giving the man a bit of credit.
"Flame out" means the woman wants to eliminate the pay for play aspect and convert the relationship to FREE. IMO, I don't think this is good for the woman or the customer. I have NO IDEA how to solve this issue. My success at fixing it is a total ZERO!!! :(
Gambling dancer gave this BS that I had violated the role play by heaven forbid actually caring about her (as if other customers don't care about her). I didn't violate anything. She is the one that is supposed to be acting---that is her JOB! That a customer may develop feelings shouldn't, imo, equal game over or game FREE. It just means that the customer is confused or in a trance or he may see the reality, but appreciates the value of the service greatly or of her or etc. She made a big deal out of "but, you're not acting." Yes and no. Having real feelings doesn't mean that everything I do is 100% as it might appear to her. The real feelings could be just admiration for her skill level or kindness or beauty or professionalism or etc. She doesn't for a moment need to reciprocate those feelings, imo.