Impact of the economy - Part 2

For me, the cost of gas is beginning to impact my mongering. The taxi-cab fares here in NOLa have skyrocketed, so my drinking plans have to be rearranged if I want to avoid that hit. And I used to make long-distance trips to go mongering -- a drive from Jackson MS to Memphis, for instance; or a round-trip flight in and out of Houston for a weekend -- but those are now on hold for the time being. It isn't exactly that I'm saving money because I need it for gas. But it's more like, the costs of a mongering experience which do involve gas are becoming so expensive I don't like paying for them any more.

Best part about the change in the economy is, that it's a great time to borrow money. Lenders are desperate for good borrowers, and by the time you pay back a longer-term debt, the value (in terms of true purchasing power; or as a ratio of an average salary) of the money you'll be returning will likely be much lower than when you got it. If you CAN get a loan with a decent rate, now's the time to take it out. I'm starting school in less than a month, so I get guaranteed student things ... :D ...

Another good part about the economy change, is that girls are more desperate. I like the fact that a $20 bill is kind of "scrambled after" now, whereas a few years ago it was sneered at. Girls at the major clubs on Bourbon Street will (more so than just a few months ago) go ahead and give you 2-for-$60 or even the first dance at $20, if it's slow; though "official" prices haven't really dropped (yet) the bargain-able prices are sneaking down in all the corners and secret hidey-holes of the market. Go in a club on an off day, or during an off month, and you can get things back to where you might perceive that they "should" be. Visions (in NOLa East) has basically eliminated the $30 dance except for tourists on Saturday nights. Though girls are supposed to charge $30 or $35, depending on the room, nearly all charge $20 everywhere.

The price of gasoline and rap music have kept me away from clubs

A question for you guys who have seen a decline in clubs in your area: do you think they'll ever come back to where they were? The reason I ask is that I think the industry is in a long-term decline. And the clubs where it's probably most noticable are those in regions where the economy is particularly weak.

I think the decline is because clubs have over-priced themselves versus other forms of adult entertainment. And to make matters worse, the number of both clubs and strippers is increasing, so an increasing number of suppliers are fighting over a shrinking customer base. And the girls are the ones who are being squeezed.

I find it interesting that people are attributing the increased availability of extras to the weak economy in their area, and that may well be true. But it seems to me from what I've been reading here that extras are increasing everywhere, regardless of the state of the local economy.

FONDL: I agree with you. You don't get out much any more but your reading comprehension is good. As the #1 shill for my favorite club I have seen the changes over the last 7 years. My mileage increases with every visit. It is a rare day when I don't have to go wash my hands after every lap dance.

There are two types of dancers out there now. The ROBs that could care less about repeat business and are asking way too much for dances. The mileage is there but the price is ridiculous.

The other type realizes the importance of repeat business/regulars. They keep prices down but know that the have to meet the competition. Hence mileage increases. On my last visit I met a waitress turned dancer. She was cute and very personable. It was her first week of dancing. After some nice conversation, she asked me for a dance. I asked "How much do you charge"? She said $25 per song. I said "Sorry but I know too many dancers in here that will do 2 for $20". She came back with "If that is what you are used to paying I will do the same." She gave me two great dances and then asked "Did I like them?" She has been added to my favorites list and I had to go wash my hands again.

FONDL,

Supply is up, more clubs as you state, therefore prices should go down. Problem is, they (club management) made a basic mistake of business. To increase income, you never raise prices. You lower them to attract customers. Simple economics and business.

Clubber, unfortunately it isn't quite that simple. I believe that a lot of clubs are making money from the higher prices, it's the girls who aren't. Which is why prices stay high. The competition isn't so much between clubs as it is between girls, who in many clubs have no control over prices. Which is why mileage goes up, it's the only thing they can control.

Clubs are taking a short-term view. But then what business doesn't?

FONDL: I'm mostly agreeing with your assessment. I think in general across the USA, tolerance of "adult businesses" are in an increase in certain forms, even as "puritanical mores" are also in an increase. I personally wish that the old "tolerated" brothels and other forms of true pay-for-play would return in certain districts, so that the need for a certain number of strip clubs to perform the ROLE of brothel would be reduced. I'd also hope that a range of available and reliable providers would develop, to the point that a working man could get his rocks off at a place with the price that a working man could afford, and the well-heeled could go to a location that offered more amenities at a greater price. Right now there's really only one "style" available in any given city (whether that available style be one that is upper-tier or bargain basement-tier, it's the only tier until the next jurisdiction).

I'm not TOO unhappy that it's the girls who are getting pinched in the middle. With more women getting involved in this business, and with there being a dwindling customer base, that can only mean a benefit to me in terms of prices dropping per given service, or of available services increasing at a given price point.

I'm not extremely happy that the women might be losing a bit of their livelihoods but I'm frankly not as altruistic as all of that, about the poor little dears. They're desperate to eviscerate me, and rapidly separate me from my cash, and if they are in such a degrading and deplorable condition then it's only themselves they have to blame, for letting themselves get to where they "had to" strip. There are thousands of waitresses, bartenders, cashiers, and doctor's clerks who are essentially unskilled but physically attractive laborers making do with a limited background but a willingness to bust their humps. I'm not so sympathetic about strippers "losing their livelihoods." I'm glad I'll be able to take advantage of that.

Your further point about stupidity of management is also something I agree with. I can't really point to anyone getting it as badly wrong as do strip club managers. It's kind of like the price of gas, in the sense that once it's gone up, it never comes back down, even if the price of crude oil does dip a bit. The oil companies are just managing our subtle psychological unhappiness by indoctrinating us into $4.50 a gallon in a manner that we'll blithely and politically inactively swallow, rather than just slamming us with it overnight (because then we'd complain enough to Capitol Hill that they'd do an anti-trust investigation about whether or not oil in America isn't a cartel).

Similarly, managers at strip clubs don't really act on the basis of some kind of intelligent view of supply and demand. They just view the girls as cash cows, and they milk them however and whenever they can. The fact that prices go up, and clubs go out of business because the prices are too high, has yet to convince ANYONE that he ought to try running a club with lower prices. As with the price of a gallon of automotive gasoline, the price of lappers and entry fees just climbs. Period. The people behind the pricing aren't motivated to do anything any different, by any given market force. Not yet, at least.

In fact, I have seen one other situation where people ran things so poorly. Department stores in Canada. When I moved there in 1990, the typical downtown (or suburban-shopping-mall) department store was open from 10 am to 4 pm. Generally clerks took a 1.5 hour break from 11:45 to 1:15. All the customers "just knew" that if you wanted to buy something from the department store, you had to cope with their "bankers hours." The stores were madly going out of business, slashing prices in desperation, advertising in the hopes of garnering sympathy and buyer loyalty. I frankly couldn't GET TO the inside of a store. All I ever saw of them was the outside of a locked door. Where to get sheets? Underwear? A cheap Timex? Obviously not at one of these places. I even spoke with a clerk at one store, and he said, no lie, "Well, WE want to take a break too, you know." He had a very arrogant, snide tone about it, as though "we" were being treated very poorly by "them" (the customers) in their unreasonable expectation that work be done for money. Canadians, humph! So, I guess that's similar to how strip clubs are driving themselves into the ground by not seeing the obvious opportunities.

I'd suggest to any strip club manager, that he initiate $10 lappers immediately, and that he manage the stable of women much more demandingly. Expect them to arrive and dance on given shifts, and require that they do so. Reduce their tip-outs so that they keep almost all their lapper money. Run the front of house like a typical bar, trying to get income from alcohol and Pepsi sales. Kick girls out if they're not physically hot enough, or if they don't get down to brass tacks about remaining on the floor during their shift. If JUST ONE club in or near Bourbon Street did this in New Orleans (and survived the mafioso backlash from other clubs' bouncers?) the whole market would be modified to the benefit of the dancers AND the customers. It could happen almost overnight. One set of business-card-sized flyers handed out -- "$10 lappers, no bullshit, hot girls, normal drink prices" -- and I'd certainly be there.

Book Guy, the mistake I see clubs making is that so many are trying to move upscale. They're all trying to attract the big spender, but he's the part of the market that I think is shrinking the fastest. This move may make short-term sense for the individual club but when they all try to do it it's disatrous for them all (there's a name for that - something that's good if only one company does it but is bad when they all do - but I've forgotten what the name is, it's a classic business stregy mistake.) The problem is that in order to move upscale they must dramatically increase their investment in the club, which forces them to raise prices beyond what the traffic will bear.

IMO the sector of the market that's the most stable is the blue-collar beer-drinking factory or construction worker. I think the most profitable clubs in the industry (in terms of ROI) are the small enighborhood clubs that cater to this crowd. I know that some of these guys are currently unemployed, but does it really hurt these kinds of inexpensive clubs when some of ther customers are drawing unemolyment and have more free time on their hands? Such clubs are also likely to have longevity because they're getting an increasing number of retired guys coming in every day. I think that' wherre the industry's future lies.

Shadowcat, I know I don't get around to clubs much anymore but I think there's just as much risk of misreading what's happening if you go too often - you can easily focus on the trees and miss the forest. You have no intgerest in the economic and sociology discussions here, but the truth is that strip clubs don't exist in a vacuum, they're part of a larger society and economy. And I think many of the answers about why strippers act certain ways and why things happen in strip clubs can be found in the larger world.

FONDL: You have no idea of my interests other than strip clubs. That is what this site is for and I try to keep in contained to those topics. I work from 6:00 A.M. till 6:00 P.M. we have 7 large TV screens at work (10'by 10') One is always tuned to Foxnews and one is tuned to CNN. We need them. There are times that our first information about an event that can affect our business comes from them. In between, we get the rest of the news. In my opinion, Ben Stein is the best source for economic information. Obama? You have got to be shitting me. What I look for in a president (I am an independent)is a person that has the experience to be a world leader. Let congress take care of the domestic stuff. 3 months ago I was getting bombarded with Hillary jokes. Now I am getting bombarded with Obama jokes. But nothing about McCain. Even got an email yesterday about why MRS. McCain would be the best choice for a first lady. Bill Clinton was a disgrace. LBJ was a coward. Jimmy Carter has done more out of office than he ever did in. Richard Nixon was guilty about Watergate but he did recognize the importance of recognizing China as a world power. I voted for Reagan and JFK and I believe that they did a good job.

I don't think that strip clubs, prostitutes or any other sex industry has any play in the over all economy of the country.

As for the social aspects. Let every person be his own guide.

The bad strategy (when one company does it, it's good for that one; but when everyone does it, it's bad for everyone) is called the fallacy of the commons, or something like that.

And the thoughts about catering to retirement-age customers also strike a positive chord with me. A smart club owner or two would figure out a means to attracting retired patrons, and providing them with dancers who are competent at interacting with older men. There's a LOT of money, loneliness, and free time out there among the AARP members. Some of the younger "party hearty" dancers probably ruin a good club's likelihood of attracting those pensioners, since the loud noise and the aggressive, high-drug atmosphere probably turn them off. A more sedate, sane interaction, with equivalently perky nubile young women, would probably make a LOT of money off those men.