discussion comment
20 years ago
Hey, FONDL. Want to put her to the test. Stop paying her money and see what happens. Simple, huh?
discussion comment
20 years ago
So shadowcat doesn't have a problem with drinking and driving either. Doesn't surprise me none.
discussion comment
20 years ago
FONDL you are wondering if she likes you beyond the working relationship. Tell her that, and that you don't want money to cloud the issue. At worst she is going to say she was only pretend friends with you and then you can keep going like you were before. If she genuinely likes you then she will understand your concern and it will not be a problem. Why do you and Yoda feel you have to pay for friendship, anyway?
discussion comment
20 years ago
phoenix: so what? It is common practice for strippers. An acceptable part of the culture. In nearly all other "professions" it is frowned upon, or not very common. Maybe used car salesman and politicians are the exception, but we all know that those professions are dominated by sociopathic types too.
discussion comment
20 years ago
Yoda and FONDL: the two of you are full of shit plain and simple.
FONDL: if you did not care if she was really friends or not you would not have posted the question here in the first place because you simply would not care what the answer was. Thought you could fool us, huh?
FONDL and Yoda: You do not care for the pretend friendship? Ok, whatever. You are paying about the same hourly rate for strippers as you would be for real live sex, so it's obviously more than the sexual element you are interested in. I mean you two can lie to yourselves all you like, but it's going to be plain to the posters here and the strippers you purchase your pretend friendship from what's really going on. But if the lies you tell yourself give you some comfort go on beleiving them. Don't let the fact that no one else on the planet will convince you discourage you. It's best not to care about what other people think anyway, right? I mean each of you has landed like one or two real friends out of hundreds of women you met and spent money on over the course of 40 years. Those are pretty good odds, right?
discussion comment
20 years ago
Yoda: Yes it might be possible for strippers and customers to become friends. Highly unlikely, but still possible, nevertheless. 1 or 2 friendships out of 40 years doesn't sound like good odds to me. Take a normal environment like where I work or school: you are going to make way more than 1 or 2 friendship out several hundred girls you meet there.
The point was that someone will continue to be friends with you even when there is no money involved, so if there is doubt just remove the money element and see what happens. There really is not that much lose: If you are only interested in LDs there are tons of girls who will do that for you. If it is the friendship thing that was important, well if she walked away once the money was gone, she was not genuine to begin with.
If it is pretend friendship that was important to you, then you can fall back to that.
Now I know the claim that you and FONDL are only interested in LDs is pure bull. I also am suspicious that pretend friendship/fantasy is good enough for you. I really suspect that the two of you regard the chance of real friendship with a woman to be so low that 1 or 2 every 40 years (and which no doubt costed you thousands or tens of thousands along the way) is considered a good investment for you.
Sad really.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Sorry about the SS problem, FONDL.
You seem to be suggesting in this thread that Yoda's simplisitc strippers are just profit maximizers model isn't quite right. I think am with you on this on. I remember seeing behaviour which was very non-profit maximizing even so much that girls as dumb as most strippers are ought to have been able to know it if they thought about it for a bit. I would even conjecture that for most strippers the manipulative, I am smarter than the customers becuase I can outplay them aspect of their job is more important. (Also getting revenge on men for past injustices comes into play too.) This is a common trait in sociopaths. Also the failure to credit their victims with any kind of intelligence or sense of self worth.
In any case, I think a lifestyle change is in order for you: How about spending some money to bolster your self- esteem so you don't get played by users in the future (and then go back to them even after they've smacked you down)?
Maybe RL can provide some resources to help FONDL out here?
discussion comment
19 years ago
Obviously most SC patrons are going to care about looks and not like fat chicks. Those into extras are going to gravitate to the larger ones b/c the large girls are going to have to have a higher average mileage in order to compete. I guess it's conceivable that certain patrons who are going more for the compainship aspect won't care too much, unless they go for the compainship aspect and need a self-esteem boost in which case a hot chick is more likely to give them that boost: wow look a hot chick is pretending to like me for only$x/minute!
discussion comment
19 years ago
This was obviously a test to see how big a chump you were. Not say that she wasn't hungry, maybe she was, but if you had gone and got her that food she would have not have thought "nice guy" she would have thought "sucker" and either played you big time after that or got her friends too. Congratulations on retaining your dignity.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Be suspicious of anything a stripper tells you. For example, if a stripper tells you that it is raining outside well it's probably just a con to keep you in the club and spending money longer.
If a stripper tells you that tommorow is Monday then double check with your calendar or on your watch, because although it's very hard to imagine that lying like this couldn't benefit her in some way, maybe you just don't understand what she is up to, or maybe she is lying to you just because it's second nature to you.
Many strippers seem to get off by lying to customers for no good reason. In normal society lying is normally considered wrong (there are some exceptions to this rule: they typically involve protecting people from physical harm) but for strippers lying is an acceptable and even encouraged part of their culture. How to effectively lie to customers is, apparently, a frequent topic of their dressing room conversations (so my an inside source tells me).
I shall, henceforth, refer to the acceptability and promotion of lying amongst the stripper culture as their "Fantasy Doctrine". The "fantasy doctrine" is, in fact, a rationalizationof lying even when it is not to protect people from physical harm or in any conceivable way of benefit to victim. The flimsy reasoning is that strip clubs exist in order to promote fantasy and since lying promotes fantasy lying is hence good.
Ultimately the "fantasy doctrine" immediately to pass any sort of justification as a reasonable moral system as it is to contrary to the common wisdom that you should treat others in a way you would like to be treated yourself. Often the victim is unaware that lies are being told, and, equally often, the fantasy is not of benefit to victim. Indeed many of lies told by strippers are quite harmful to their victims.
My advice would be to avoid strip clubs altogether. Build the self-confidence (perhaps by fixing a weight problem or whatever) to make friends and romantic involvements with the vast majority of women in world who are not "users".
If you must go to strip clubs because you do not have that confidence yet or maybe have some incurable physical problem, then realize that these are not normal girls living their lives under the guidance of normal morals systems. Hence you too must play hardball. (For an example of why this is justified imagine that you were dealing with the Gestapo during WWII. Suspension of normal social niceties would have to be practiced in order to protect yourself).
To put it even more succinctly I would say "if you must visit a SC, please don't do it for conversation or make friends. Go there to find extras, and be completely ruthless with regard to human feeling in pursuit of this." Remeber that the strippers are not going to treat you as human, so don't put yourself at disadvantage by treating them as such.
Thanks you and have a nice day,
davids.
discussion comment
19 years ago
casualguy: I didn't lie: I changed my mind. Anyway I'll stop again and check up on you guys in another 3 months. Good luck!
discussion comment
19 years ago
Ship of Fools
Money for Nothing
Self Esteem
Why Don't You Get A Job?
discussion comment
19 years ago
That stripper sounds rather mean.
I think nearly all men in stripper clubs could get over their self esteem issues with a little work. There are probably very few people in the world who have justifiably low self esteem and within that group I predict that strippers are probably over represented. In fact, given how mean that stripper is I predict she has some self esteem issues of her own. Most people with high self esteem do not bother to criticize others that meanly.
I think the stripper is also off the mark in suggesting that strippers do some kind of a favour for their customers with low self esteem. The reality of the situation is that they are making their money by preying upon people with psychological problems. It's somewhat akin to swinding money from schizophernics. Not exactly ethical in my books. If the strippers were truly generous as she suggests they would work with their customers to get them the hell out of strip clubs and into normal, health (FREE) relationships with people who really cared for them.
I for one appreciate your posts here RL and how you try to shed some true light on the reality of strip clubs. Keep up the good work, man.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Just ask: strippers get asked it so many times the chance you will offend them is exactly 0.5%, and even if you who gives a rat's aXX? They are just strippers: move onto the next one.
Now if you are talking OTC stuff then you will probably have to build up some trust with them first: be a regular for a bit.
Oh and if you asked too early that's fine ask again later they might "change their mind" once they feel more comfortable that you are not a crazed psychopath.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Intellectualism is pretty much wasted on strippers.
Even if a strippers is going to school (unlikely!) she is only doing it so that she can make the same amount she does now but without having to give HJs to old, ugly guys. It's not because they value intelligence and education for their own sake.
I will qualify this a bit by saying some of the really, really clever ones (as far as strippers go) realize their looks won't last forever and they will need to do something when they over 29 (assuming they don't just land a sugar daddy first).
Intelligence in an academic sense is not valued amongst strippers. Else they would be in school studying Quantum Cosmology right?
For strippers intelligence=running a good scam on a customer and getting away with it.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Why are you so hostile about my post?
Are you a stripper yourself, or one of her (CRIMINAL) boyfriends, husbands, wives, cheated on lovers, brother, father? What's your problem?
discussion comment
19 years ago
casualguy: Maybe if she liked it that much you should have ASKED her it she wanted to start a SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP with you OUTSIDE THE CLUB for FREE? Maybe she wasn't your type though?
discussion comment
19 years ago
Forgive my shallowness but what does "good dancer" mean for a stripper in the absence of extras? Sort of a sensual tease which I have been told someone guys are into?
discussion comment
19 years ago
Yoda: nearly all good looking girls with great personalities are not strippers and are make much less money in other jobs. Why? Think about the reasons I mentioned in my initial post. Money isn't everything. How come you can't get that? It's so simple.
It's pretty much impossible to have any kind of meaningful discussion with you however, give how shallow and, in particular, how dishonest you are.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Doesn't make any logical sense Yoda: Why are good looking girls with good personalities doing extras at all then if it's not going to help them make money? Maybe they are secretly into fat 50 year old guys?
discussion comment
19 years ago
If there were no stripclubs there would probably be some increase in other forms of prostitution. This is the main reason strip clubs are allowed to exist at all, IMO.
On the other hand, I think the better solution to the prostitution issue would be to just legalize prostitution and be careful about health regulations. That's how it is in Nevada. No way that will happen in this decade though given how people are mixing Christianity with politics these days. Maybe in the 2010s or the 2020s.
In general though, I think you are right Jpac: most people would just do more of the things they normally like. Maybe some of the old guys here would take up stamp collecting or playing chess instead? Hmmmmm?
If I had never gone to strip clubs I probably would have just spent the time at home reading instead.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Why then does business tank at strip clubs when the police start clamping down on strippers for doing extras if the customers are only there for personality and looks. Please, let's not be so naive or ass-kissing folks.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Yoda: Dude, read my initial post again: I am talking about the top earners. You got any other strawmen you want to tackle next?
discussion comment
19 years ago
As if.
discussion comment
19 years ago
Yeah pre-concieved, hehe.
Yeah I have no experience with what strippers do for money and I've never talked to any about it.