Emotional involvement

Not only did my ATF's friends try to talk her out of quitting, her family did too because they were all mooching off of her. That's ultimately why she moved a thousand miles south, that and to escape a loser boyfriend. What's even funnier is that she chose to move to a resot area where my wife and I have family and friends and where we vacation regularly, in fact we found a really nice and very inexpensive place that we love that's 2 blocks from her apartment (and we'll be there next week.) I think it's interesting how we meet people in the most unexpected ways who go on to become a major part of our lives. No one could have ever predicted anything like this at all. If I had some people's biases against strippers I would have missed an awful lot. She's like a daughter to me now.

FONDL: Yes, we speak on the phone 3 or 4 times a month and try to get together for a visit as often as we can. We are both self-employed and very busy so it's gotten tougher to see each other face-to-face but we manage. Her mother spends about 6 months a year living with her and she's crazy about me so we definitely get together whenever she is visiting. Like you, I was the only guy who backed her when she wanted to quit. All of her other customers and most of her friends told her she was crazy to walk away from the money but, after 4 years, she just couldn't do it anymore.

Yoda, thanks for sharing your story about helping your ATF. My story isn't all that different. I looked at it this way: when she was thinking about quitting dancing, I was the only customer who encouraged her to do so, which is probably why she stayed in contact with me after she quit. I felt for me to then turn around and not offer to help her, I would have been a hypocrite - I mean, I'm giving her money to take off her clothes, I encourage her to stop doing it, then I penalize her by refusing to help? That just didn't make any sense to me. I may have a lot of faults but being a hypocrite isn't one of them.

Anyway, my situation was similar to yours - for a long time she refused any help so I just made up for it by giving her big tips (she had gone back to being a waitress and started going to school) whenever I ate at her restaurant. In fact it got to be kind of a joke - she never ever gave me a bill, I'd just go have dinner and hand her a hundred dollars when I was ready to leave. She was comfortable with that.

I learned a lot from that episode and I treat dancers very differently now. Are you still in contact with your ATF? My ATF and I talk on the phone almost every day, sometimes more often, and we get together several times a year (we live about a thousand miles apart now.)

Davids: Get past the fact that NOTHING is supposed to be free in a strip club. Weather you buy a dance, a drink or a few hours of handholding it all comes with a price. Any man who spends any time at all in a strip club thinking differently is clueless. Why the hell do you care how much FONDL, myself or anybody else spends in a strip club? Nobody is dragging us in and I'm sure nobody is dragging you in either. You are spending an awful lot of time trying to tell FONDL and myself that something we have both lived through and experienced can't be happening. Since you seem to be so omniscient, can you give me a few winning lottery numbers?

Davids: You seem to be mixing up two or three different issues here in an effort to prove that you are right and FONDL and I are wrong. First of all. I never said I make friends with every stripper I meet. You did. In fact, I myself have said that it is a rare occurance. You seem to be mixing the fact that I have made a couple of good friends over the last 20 years with my contention that most dancers are not bad people. Just because I like a dancer and pay her money to dance for me doesn't mean we are going to become friends. True friendship is a very rare occurance among any two people.

Secondly. You don't seem to be able to get past the fact that when a dancer is at work she is there to make money. I wouldn't insult a woman by visiting her at her place of business and not reembursing her for her time. Even the woman I talked about in my OTC post above still got paid for her time whenever I saw her at work. You can call it buying friendship if that supports your theory.
I don't really care.

You haven't answered my question about your perfect dancer.

Yoda: Yes it might be possible for strippers and customers to become friends. Highly unlikely, but still possible, nevertheless. 1 or 2 friendships out of 40 years doesn't sound like good odds to me. Take a normal environment like where I work or school: you are going to make way more than 1 or 2 friendship out several hundred girls you meet there.

The point was that someone will continue to be friends with you even when there is no money involved, so if there is doubt just remove the money element and see what happens. There really is not that much lose: If you are only interested in LDs there are tons of girls who will do that for you. If it is the friendship thing that was important, well if she walked away once the money was gone, she was not genuine to begin with.

If it is pretend friendship that was important to you, then you can fall back to that.

Now I know the claim that you and FONDL are only interested in LDs is pure bull. I also am suspicious that pretend friendship/fantasy is good enough for you. I really suspect that the two of you regard the chance of real friendship with a woman to be so low that 1 or 2 every 40 years (and which no doubt costed you thousands or tens of thousands along the way) is considered a good investment for you.

Sad really.

Yoda and FONDL: the two of you are full of shit plain and simple.

FONDL: if you did not care if she was really friends or not you would not have posted the question here in the first place because you simply would not care what the answer was. Thought you could fool us, huh?

FONDL and Yoda: You do not care for the pretend friendship? Ok, whatever. You are paying about the same hourly rate for strippers as you would be for real live sex, so it's obviously more than the sexual element you are interested in. I mean you two can lie to yourselves all you like, but it's going to be plain to the posters here and the strippers you purchase your pretend friendship from what's really going on. But if the lies you tell yourself give you some comfort go on beleiving them. Don't let the fact that no one else on the planet will convince you discourage you. It's best not to care about what other people think anyway, right? I mean each of you has landed like one or two real friends out of hundreds of women you met and spent money on over the course of 40 years. Those are pretty good odds, right?

FONDL: two years ago my ATF quit dancing rather suddenly. She started her own business and, fortunately, her brother, who was sharing an apartment with her, helped out financialy as well as her BF. However, it was clear to me that she was having a tough go of it-her mother was visiting from Brazil and that meant 3 mouths to feed and many bills to pay. She never asked me for help and I know for a fact that she turned down help from a few of her other regulars who called her and offered. Without telling her, I started sending her gift cards for the local grocery store chain so that she, her mother and her brother wouldn't go hungry. I did this every 2 or 3 weeks for about 18 momths until she was doing well enough that she didn't need my help anymore. During this time I aslo offerd to loan her money for school (yes, she was really going) but she refused to accept it. I know some people on this board are going to have a field day with this post but hey, that's what keeps thigs interesting around here.

About 6 months ago there was a thread on the pink site started by a dancer who was very saddened by the fact that she just learned that an older customer who she really liked had died. A couple dozen other dancers commiserated, saying that they had had a similar experience or that they'd be very upset if their favorite older customer passed away. Not one dancer mentioned loss of money as a concern. These girls clearly have a connection beyond the monetary one with these guys. That's what I mean by an emotional involvement, not a dependency, not necessarily a friendship outside the club, just an in-house involvement that extends beyond the commercial one. I think that's pretty common.

Yoda, just out of curiousity, a question. If you became really close friends with a dancer who quit and went to work doing someting else which paid a whole lot less, and even though she was doing everything she could to better herself she wasn't making it, would you offer to help her financially?

Davids: The only thing I'm buying is lap dances and drinks in a strip club. You are confusing friendship with business. Inside the club both have to co-exist. Outside of the club is a different story. I have never paid a dancer money for hanging out OTC. It's obvious you and I go to clubs for different reasons and have very different opinions about women but why do you find it so hard to aknowledge the fact that sometimes two people can just hit it off regardless of the situation or environment. You spoke of your ideal dancer in another thread. Do you think that if you and she where not separated by distance that it's possible a friendship could have developed?

Davids, once again you completely misunderstand the situation. First of all, I'm not wondering whether she likes me or not, I don't care what's going on between her ears, she treats me the way I like to be treated and I'm enjoying it. Whatever happens beyond that happens. Secondly I'm not looking for a friend and I'm not trying to buy friendship. She's selling an entertainment service that I enjoy and so I'm buying it, it's a commercial transaction just like any other. If we turn out to be friends someday that's fine, but most likely we won't.

If you'll go back and read my original post, you'll see that I was asking if anyone has had a situation where a dancer became emotionally attached to them, which I think may be happening here. Several people have indicated that they have had a similar experience, which I think is probably fairly common between young dancers and older customers. Obviously you have not had such an experience and you probably never will because you're too distrusting.

FONDL you are wondering if she likes you beyond the working relationship. Tell her that, and that you don't want money to cloud the issue. At worst she is going to say she was only pretend friends with you and then you can keep going like you were before. If she genuinely likes you then she will understand your concern and it will not be a problem. Why do you and Yoda feel you have to pay for friendship, anyway?

Hi Yoda,

Not all of them include a cash component. If you practically live in the club, then things change especially if you're focused on 1 dancer and the other dancers respect that.

Davids, next time you go to a favorite restaurant, leave without paying the bill. That way you'll find out if they really like you or not. Why do you have such a hang-up about money? These girls are working, it's their job. Do you work for free? Why should they? Just because people have a working relationship doesn't mean they can't be friends. She treats me like a friend, that's good enough for me.

Davids: That is not a test. Dancers are at work to make money. No matter how much a girl likes you if you stop spending money on her at when she is at work it is going to curtail the amount of time she spends with you. Lots of different kinds of relationships happen inside of strip clubs. All of them include cash as a component. The only way you can be sure of a woman's feelings beyond an "inside the club" relationship is to see what happens OTC or after a dancer retires or moves on.

I would say the test is stupid and immoral. I was good friends with most of my bosses. If they had "tested" me by cutting my income, then I sure as hell wouldn't feel too friendly toward them. These things evolve naturally. Only an insecure jerk would want to test the dancer in that manner. The test would prove nothing. The real proof is how she's treating him now: It sounds like she could make a lot more $$$ treating him like an ATM (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Enjoy and appreciate the good times.

Hey, FONDL. Want to put her to the test. Stop paying her money and see what happens. Simple, huh?

Thanks Yoda and Nigel, it's nice to have someone here who understands. And Yoda, there definately won't be any sex involved, one of the big reasons why a girl like this enjoys spending time with a guy like me (I'm more than 40 years older than she is) is because I don't come on to her. This relationship is following pretty closely along the lines of my previous experience with my ATF, who is now my closest friend. And in case anyone is wondering, she has a boyfriend with whom she lives, she's told me all about him. I expect to meet him one day soon.

Shadowcat, this girl has never danced outside Maryland, she's lived in MD all her life. She's about 5-6, slender athletic body, long blond hair. But that probably describes half the dancers in the US. She's also quite young and a very bright full-time college student. She's also fairly quiet, shy and serious, although she tells me she used to be a party girl.

Yu r a loser for getting involved. I go to MOB to get bbbj's, Hj's and same daty with an occasional pole in the hole action. Strip clubs r 4 poontang......not love. Grow up boy and stop letting ur dick control your heart!!!.

I have been in this type of a relationship for almost a year. I consider her a dear friend and I know she feels the same. And there has been no money involved. Could it lead to something more? I doubt it - she's almost half my age. I'm not counting on it, but I would be open to it. At least we are both single.

FONDL: What you are experiencing has happened to me a couple of times. Both times it turned into very good friendship outside of the club that still exists to this day. In neither of my cases did it involve sex. What this lady wants from you really has nothing to do wit sex. Inside of the club that may be part of the mix but outside is different. What she wants from you is some stability and a friend. My advice is to keep your head clear, enjoy the ride and see where it goes. I understand why others on this board are skeptical. This sort of thing is rare and, until it happens to you, it's human nature to doubt that it could.

Gerontophilia.

Lord knows a good number young guys experience anililagnia.

Gerontophilia.

Lord knows a good number of young guys experience anililagnia.

Yeah and such a girl can't find a decent guy her own age to date. Yeah, ok, whatev.

Shadowcat, anytime I'm going to her club we make a "date" in advance by phone so that I know she's working and she knows when I'm coming. In fact she will rearrange her work schedule to suit my schedule. When I get there she's sitting alone waiting for me. We sit and talk for an hour or so, sometimes have lunch, then do a VIP room and I leave. And when I get up to leave she always begs me to stay a little longer. The only time she leaves my side while I'm there is if she has to dance on stage. She treats me like a close friend, there isn't anything she won't tell me, and she trusts me completely. She seems to always know exactly what I want and does it. And this isn't some average looking girl, she's the best looking stripper I've ever seen, the girl is absolutely gorgeous. Last summer the club had a highly publicized nude beauty contest including strippers from all over the city and she won it. First prize was $5,000. This girl makes all the money she needs to support herself and go to school full time, never asks me for more, never tries to hustle me. As I've told her several times, if she's hustling me she's doing a poor job of it because I never give her very much and couldn't afford to if I wanted to, and she knows that. This girl is a real sweetheart and we really enjoy each other's company. I've known this girl now for 7 months, I met her on the first day she was working, although she had danced before elsewhere, but she was pretty naive. My ATF was always very nice to me too but not quite to the extent that this girl is, and my ATF was never quite as open and trusting until after she quit dancing. My ATF was very popular and always had other regular customers when I was there so I often had to wait my turn. I've never had to wait for my current girl.

I wasn't too stable, but I did have a few good relationships. I feel a little sad when people assume dancers are just about the money although as the dancer gets older I think there is a tendency to become harder and colder. The dancers I "bonded" with had love as their main goal. The type that would happily give you their money in return for caring.

Friend Of Naked Dancing Lady Ecdysiasts

I liked your acronym. :)

She's not playing "poor me" and I don't live for strippers, I just enjoy some of them. But I do love seeing how people make all kinds of incorrect assumptions when you post something like this thread. It's great fun on a cold day. So far this week I've been accused of hating strippers and loving them too much, guess I'm doing it just about right.

usually if a dancer is playing the "poor me,i need you" role shes setting you up to be played for whatever she wants and needs now and later.not to say that there arent any nice girls in the clubs,just beware of ones who seem a little too friendly and needy

Great post ridin, but FONDL lives for the strippers.

Hope your not married. I dated a girl from the club one time. I told her I was married and she agreed to discresion. Little did I know she meant it would be our little secret till you stop seeing me. She turned out to have 4 kids,and contacted my wife saying she was having her 5th by me. No I wasnt stupid enough not to use a condom,but we all know nothings completly safe. After months of hell and a seperation it all came out that she wasnt even pregnant. Ive meant great ladies in the clubs,but guys beware of some of them. The sex wasnt as good as her dancing made you think and she was a crazy B****.

I agree that in most cases it is. But I've also encountered the real thing. Hopefully this will turn out to be one of them. The jury is still out but the signs are all pointing in the right direction. I've never had a girl treat me as well as this girl does.

It's an act to get your money. I've fallen for it myself.