tuscl

Do you care how much she weighs?

Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:03 AM
As many of you probably know, Yoda and I have been having discusions about the importance of a dancer's looks, which to me includes things like weight and fitness. He obviously thinks it's shallow to care about weight and fitness in a dancer, and that personality should be the main criteria in choosing who you spend time with. On the other hand, I find looks including proper weight and fitness to be fairly important. although I value intelligence and personality too. The reason we got into this discussion in the first place is because I've noted that there are more fatties dancing lately and I have a problem with that, I think dancers should be relatively slim and fit. I'm curious, how do the rest of you feel about dancers being slender and fit? Am I the only one who cares?

111 comments

  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Rioboy review of Angels: “Absolute filthy cesspool. Stench of urine permeates the club. Massive hogs roam the dance stage. No cost savings can justify time wasted in this club.” I was thinking about the "stench of urine" that Rioboy smelled and I would like to state for the record that this may be yet another reason to oppose FAT dancers. That smell, which some people consider an aphrodisiac, is from the "[m]assive hogs" (the 300 to 400 pound dancers i.e. FATTIEs, GIANTS, PORKERS) who in the sometimes oppressive heat of the club have rivulets of sweat streaming down their bodies. Sometimes the club sets out sweat buckets i.e. the sweat is gather from wherever (the floor, the dancer, the customer) and deposited in the buckets for eventual disposal. I've asked why the buckets are left to just stand around. I was given 3 answers: 1) Some customers like the smell, and then the real answers 2) The EPA is like most government oppressive and a pain in the ass, and 3) The club has difficulty raising the $$$ for the disposal fees, charges, taxes, and surcharges. :(
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Heatherlake, if you go to a really large fancy club, what's known as a gentlemen's club, you're likely to see mostly slim young fairly fit women. But if you go to some of the smaller and less fancy places you are more likely to see a cross section of girls that are more like the girls you see out on the street, some will be young slim and fit, others won't be any of those things.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    I don't know anything about Chicago. I'm in Miami, Florida. At the cheap clubs, FIVE DOLLAR two-way high contact dances, good looks are in NO manner a requirement to be a dancer. And, sometimes the FATTER the dancer the happier the customers seem. Cheaper by the pound often seems to be the thinking. But, even at very expensive clubs like Solid Gold looks did NOT rule--working for peanuts did--of course this was some years back. They had nothing but women from eastern europe and the typical American woman was much prettier because she looked healthier. The foreign women from eastern europe looked worn. Anyway, looks are in the eye of the beholder. Again and again I see customers going crazy over women who I would pay to stay dressed and stay away. I like dancers to be short, slim, in shape, and YOUNG. I saw this lesbian couple get some dances at Angels and the dancer seemed to be having a blast feeling out these hot young white women. (At Angels *usually* ALL customers even fat old ugly women customers are appreciated.) I see the same thing at The Trap where dancers seem to really like giving women customers hot dances. This very nice dancer said to one of the female customers at The Trap I would love to take you home you're so cute and she was being real because that is the type of person she is . . . very nice and real. It really surprises me how honest and sweet some of these dancers are especially after going thru the meat grinder with nasty brain challenged customers.
  • heatherlake
    •
    19 years ago
    I was under the impression that they were all FIT, YOUNG, SLIM and had tight asses.. what could I have been thinking..And I thought I was going to be intimidated if I went with my husband....what's the deal....Is this every where??..I'm in Chicagoland!!
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Correction: Lately I haven't seen the real GIANTS at Angels, but some of the large dancers could still be considered GIANTS. And, it seems like some customers just love these GIANT dancers.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi Card, The biggest dancer I've seen was at Angels. Of course, I go there more often and over a longer period of time than to any of the other strip clubs. She was so GIANT, but very friendly, that I asked her if she was 400 pounds (I was sure she was over 400). She said was only 250. I gave her the look and she then said 320 and losing weight. To try and give you an idea of how big she was Angel's had these two person love couches that could easily fit 3 normal sized people or 4 small dancers. When she sat down she took almost the WHOLE love couch and her body was spilling over onto me. :( I honestly thought the couch might collapse. Two good things about her 1) she was very nice and 2) she offered a $5 BJ. I said NO to the BJ out of FEAR of disease (always a concern even with non-working girls) and thinking she might be hungry. Her teeth were beautiful white and looked RAZOR SHARP. The other club where the GIANTS were strongly preferred over small dancers at one time was Take One Lounge. On one occasion over there the big men sitting on either side of me were getting dances from 300 pounders at least. When I nabbed a tiny dancer 100 pounds she wanted to know why I was choosing her when there were still big girls available. One of the men next to me said don't deprive yourself just because you're white, get a big girl. Every one was shocked when I said I like small girls. Then one of the men explained that when have a small girl you get a small baby, but when you get a big girl you get a big baby. Being BIG seemed to be very important to these people. Lately I haven't seen the real GIANTS at Angels lately, but the some the large dancers could still be considered GIANTS. And, it seems like some customers just love these GIANT dancers.
  • Card
    •
    19 years ago
    Kyle1111 - I`m just curious - where in the world have you been that you`ve seen a 300 or 400 lb dancer?? Seriously, you must be overestimating weight. I`ve been dancing 10 years at everything from a "gentleman`s club" to a corner neighborhood bar and I have NEVER seen a dancer even approaching that weight.
  • ShotDisc
    •
    19 years ago
    not as much as how she acts. I like girls with some meat on their bones.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    The small places have been around forever and will continue to exist long after many of the GC's have gone out of business. I think many of the GC's have a real problem - they have to keep getting fancier and fancier, which means their overhead keeps going up and so do their prices. But as their prices rise their customer base declines. And the decline is compounded in part because rules governing expense accounts have become much stricter and also because of increasing competition. So in order to survive they have to offer something "extra" but that puts them at risk of being shut down. It also makes it hard for them to attract and keep the high class of dancer that their image requires. It's a real dilemma. I always assume that the fancy GC's are owned by organized crime who have other reasons for owning these places (eg. as a front for drugs and prostitution), but that may not be true.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: I agree with you. Small clubs with low prices and low overhead are inclined to bring in the higher profit margins even if they don't always gross the same amount of revenue as a big GC may on a Saturday night. In fact, the GC's are the ones that seem to change ownership, go bankrupt and even close down the most frequently. Greed and stupidity being the prime factors.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    I agree that beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder. I also agree that most strip clubs make enough money that they don't go out of business very often. But that's a far cry from maximizing their income. I believe that the most profitable clubs are usually those that keep their prices low and are therefore always busy. Those clubs also usually have few employees and aren't very fancy so their overhead is very low. I think unless you're downtown in a convention town like Vegas or NYC, that's the business model that works the best - low prices and low overhead. I used to go to a really cheap place that was run by two people - the owner and a lady who ran the dancers and tended bar. No bouncers, no waitresses, no DJ, no bathroom or parking attendant, no fancy surroundings, just dancers working for tips. They attract lots of customers because they are cheap and have attractive dancers. They attract good dancers because tip out is low and the girls keep all their LD money. The place is a money machine for both the owner and the girls. If I could own any club in the US I'd pick that one.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    I'm extremely picky when it comes to what I consider HOT. I'm looking for a woman so PERFECT that my heart starts racing. Even a small flaw or flaws can reduce my enjoyment considerably. I'm fairly certain that I don't need a FATTIE or other ugly dancer to help lead me to that wonderful feeling of having my heart race at just the sight of a beautiful woman. If anything the FATTIE is like garbage lying around a coral reef. It doesn't improve anything it is just unsightly. Many years back Islands magazine did a story on an isolated tribe that is so primitive they supposedly didn't even know where babies came from. Anyway, there was a spread of maybe 10 young island girls and it was like WOW they are PERFECT. Throw in a FATTIE and it is like throwing an empty beer can on an otherwise perfect beach: It destroys the fantasy and distracts from the natural beauty of the beach and offers nothing of real value. I believe in the venerable beauty is in the eye of the beholder cliche. Having said that some customers would get a woody watching a wheelchair bound dancer do wheelies on stage. Is that real net value? IOW, somewhere someone is going to get excited by what 99.9% would consider truly disgusting. Are you going to bring in that truly disgusting dancer to help make the other dancers look hot? Is that her real net value? If so the guy tossing the garbage unto to coral reef deserves a medal for making us appreciate a coral reef that would be not as appreciated without the garbage.
  • mike_somd
    •
    19 years ago
    "Assume a club can accomodate a maximum of 20 dancers and there are 200 dancers desperate to pay the house fee which is regulated by law at a low rate. 70 out of the 200 dancers are super models and the other 130 are FATTIES. Does it make sense for the club to only hire the super models or does the club need FATTIES?" -Kyle1111 If the club only hired supermodels, then in that club the norm would be supermodels and thus they would be considered average. The club would need a FATTIE or UGLY or two on each shift just to differentiate what is hot and thin and whatnot. IF everyone was a supermodel how could you tell who was the true HOTTIE? That being said I am a FATTIE and have gotten a dance or two from an overweigh dancer, but I normally tend to gravitate towards dancers that are not overweight and that are no overly thin. If you go just by weight, that can be missleading, becase a dancer with a nice big rack weigh more than a dancer with a simmilar body with a small rack... Thus in my conclusion it is all relative and in the Eye of the beyholder.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    Very few strip club owners hire MBA's to manage them. Mosto of the time it's a guy who started as a bouncer and worked his way up...The business model that most strip clubs follow is simple: Tits & Ass bring in guys who pay cover charges, buy drinks and buy lap dances. Aside from the dancers who work solely for tips, many other SC employees are also paid mostly in tips from the dancers or from the customers. SC's have very low payroll overall and the profit margin on liquor and soda is just rediculous. When things get slow, you run dance specials (that usualy involve the dancer taking less money for a lap dance and the club not being affected at all) and raise prices on everything. It sounds like a stupid way to do business but I've been going to clubs for over 20 years and most of the ones I went to 20 years ago are still around. Strip clubs don't go out of business very often...
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Kyle, I agree that many club policies that are intended to maximize club income, like high prices, end up chasing customers away instead. But that doesn't keep clubs from blindly following such policies. Many strip clubs are poorly managed - we all know that.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi Fondl, Just because some clubs do it that way doesn't mean all clubs do it that way. And, furthermore just because some clubs will hire FATTIES to get a House Fee doesn't mean that FATTIES have real net value. Those FATTIES could be driving away hot dancers and paying customers and the management at club may not be maximizing their profits by looking solely at the House Fee a FATTY will pay.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi Yoda, It is not that simple at The Trap for example. A dancer has to give her eye teeth and be subject to stringent rules and whims to be allowed to pay a House Fee there. And, the club seems to have no shortage of applicants. OBEDIENCE and RACIAL BALANCING, and ****NOT House Fees*** or attractiveness seems to be what drives management at The Trap. IOWs, it is NOT all about $$$. And, I think some of these FATTIES sneak in on soft hearts. Yes, it happens. I was given the opportunity at Angels to fire this UGLY dancer and I didn't have the heart to do what should have been EASY. Like a wise man said NEVER GIVE A FATTY AN EVEN BREAK. Or, like a first lady said JUST SAY NO!!!
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Unfortunately Yoda is right, a lot of clubs will hire almost any girl who applies and there is no maximum number of girls - more is better. Nor do there appear to be any hiring standards to speak of, if she is willing to get naked on stage she's hired. I try to avoid places like that, or at least avoid the girls who don't appeal to me. But I also try to keep in mind that every customer is different - I've seen guys spend a lot of money on girls who don't appeal to me at all. I even read a review once of a club I used to go to regularly, and this guy was raving about the dancer who I always avoid because she's about 45 and doesn't appeal to me at all because she's dumber than a fence post. Different strokes ...
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    Kyle: One of the clubs I go to regularly has 70 to 80 girls working on weekend nights. They will schedule as many as 40 or 50 on weekdays. The house fee is $25 per girl. They want as many girls paying that fee as possible. They don't carewhat all of them look like. It's really that simple.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi Yoda, Assume a club can accomodate a maximum of 20 dancers and there are 200 dancers desperate to pay the house fee which is regulated by law at a low rate. 70 out of the 200 dancers are super models and the other 130 are FATTIES. Does it make sense for the club to only hire the super models or does the club need FATTIES? Remember the house fee is just one aspect of the club's profit picture. Many a dancer would argue that the club needs FATTIES and other disgusting dancers so as to appeal to a variety of tastes. I would argue that FATTIES normally have no real value to a club assuming healthy dancers are available. An exception would be Take One at certain points in its history where FATTIES were strongly preferred and the little super model dancers were looked down upon, IOW, the club was upsidedownoutofitsmind.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    Clubs that hire fat dancers do it for the same reason that they hire thin dancers-because they pay a house fee every night. Many clubs only care about how many dancers they have working-and contributing-on any given shift. They could care less if the woman is attractive to customers or not. They could also care less if she makes any money or not as long as she pays her house fees and tip-outs. The fact she may buy a few drinks as well merely sweetens the deal.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi DandyDan, Here's a link to a photo of the Venus de Milo: [view link] That lady is looking HOT to me and NOT big at all. Yes, I do like even smaller women who look like young girls, but this lady is tiny compared to the GIANTS I'm talking about. It is the blubber butts that disrepect themselves and others. But, hey some customers really dig 300 to 400 and up pound dancers. I've been wondering if the FATTIES have any net real value to a strip club (assuming healthy dancers are available). The answer is HELLL NOOO!!! I want the tropical paradise type of young girls. NO FATTIES allowed. If a customer wants a FATTIE, then he should have more than he can possibly handle. I knew a couple guys who liked FAT and it seemed like they were in constant demand by mounds and pounds of female blubber. It was enough to make me think being gay wouldn't be so horrible maybe. :(
  • DandyDan
    •
    19 years ago
    Historically, men have favored bigger girls. You can see that all the way back to when they made the Venus de Milo. One thing I would like to know is when "broad" became a term for a woman. It probably comes from a time when the best women were broad, or wide, or fat, or whatever term you want to use.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    I was at The Trap a couple of nights ago and there were 2 GIANTS. The customers seemed to be loving it. A couple kept yelling at the one with a super sized ass to shake it, which she did. Not a pretty sight. Some people love FATTIES. Here is a link to a picture of Lillian Russell who I believe did a little stripping and was supposed loved by masses of men: [view link] The way the customers at The Trap were behaving I can believe she really did have men drooling over her blubber. At Angels and Take One it seems like there is a strong demand for GIANTS. To me they're just visual pollution. Here's another link to Lillian Russell: [view link]
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    I like petite also, mainly because I'm a little guy and it's just more comfortable (in more ways than one) being with a little girl. Also the young cute ones tend to be petite and I like young and cute.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Just to clarify, I also like a little soft meat on the bones and don't care for skinny - I think Norma Jean was almost perfect. But if she wanted to do movies today she'd have to spend more time in the gym. That would be OK but I don't especially care for the real hard bodies.
  • TopGunGlen
    •
    19 years ago
    Wow, 88 messages indicate this is a biggie for most of us. I have said before, and will again, that the full figured, yet in shape ladies (think Monroe, Welch, Mansfield) are my favorite types. Now big soft fatty bulges without any muscle tone are a no go, (except in the boob area). The Twiggy girls with fake 44D's turn me off. I like a little meat with my lapdances. Just not enough to break my legs...;-)
  • Pete22z
    •
    19 years ago
    Yes weight matters! But is it the most important thing? If I find myself in a club looking to waste some bucks on some company, I want the fantasy girl. The stereotypical gorgeous gym blonde or the angelic-looking-what-is-she-doing-in-a-strip-club-soroity-chick with a petite body that just won't quit. Unfortunately: 1. these girls have such a mercenary mentality that they think I won't shell out her $1000 for the night quota - or - 2. are in such high demand that they can't be found after the stage bit I usually find myself buying endless dances with a cute girl with a decent body (Rubenesque maybe, but not skin and bones either) and a friendly personality that at least pretends to be into me during the dance. A hot chick with an attitude...well, who am I kidding...she's getting my money too! But no way am I shelling out my hard-earned $$$'s to a fat girl. No fat chicks allowed in my fantasy world.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    This book also has an excellent chapter on STD's. According to the author, STD's are a very serious problem among the elderly, and the problem is growing more rapidly than in any other age group. Apparently a lot of oldsters are very active sexually and don't bother with condoms because there's no risk of pregnancy. Something to look forward to I guess.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    BTW, the book is "Breaking the Rules of Aging" by Dr. David Lipschitz. He's the Dr. David of PBS fame. The book is a fast read and highly recommended for anyone over 50 or who someday plans to be over 50 or has parents over 50. The rest of you should ignore it.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    I know this is a little off topic but I wanted to pass along something that I read yesterday. I'm reading a book on aging and the writer says that the relationship between weight and longevity isn't very strong, unless you're very overweight (50 pounds or more.) He says that it's a U-shaped curve - the very thin and very fat die younger than the people in the middle, and being 10-20 pounds overweight has little effect on health or longevity. The real predictor is exercise - the person who is 20 pounds overweight but gets lots of vigorous exercise is likely to hve fewer health problems and to outlive the person who isn't overweight but gets little exercise. Also the relationship seems to reverse for people over 70 - extra pounds prolong life in the elderly. Interesting.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    "... unless of course you are married." Ouch, that hurt. I'd amend that to say that if you are married you ALWAYS lose any argument. At least you do if you are smart.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    What FONDL and I accomplished here may have been boring to some but nobody forced anyone to read it. We spent 2 or 3 weeks arguing our positions without calling each other names or becoming insulting. In the past on this board there have been people who couldn't exchange 2 posts without getting vulgar and insulting. FONDL and I agree a lot and we dissagree a lot. It is possible to argue a topic and choose sides without anyone having to win or lose...unless of course, you are married....
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi Fondl, Well, I believe in stereotyping depending on the circumstances. But, since I have NO desire for a FATTIE generally (there was this porker that *glowed* who I liked) I'll be sure not to stereotype other than the agreed and approved stereotype that she doesn't respect her body. I wish dancers and other women would consider fake boobs for the purpose of increasing size to be an extreme lack of respect for themselves. What the hell---piercings (sp?), tattoos, brandings, and other decorative mutilations on women should also be added to the list of things that show a lack of respect for their natural beauty. I only remember a few tattoos on women that I liked and once of those (the best one) got lasered off.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Train, for me it would depend on other factors, such as the type of club and services available there. Shadowcat, I think we did pretty well. We came to almost total agreement in only about 70 posts. And we had a lot of fun doing it, even if everyone else found it to be boring. I think I even learned something along the way. Kyle, I like the term "porker," I'd kind of forgotten that one. Very descriptive. But remember, it says nothing about her self respect in other areas, we don't want to be guilty of stereotyping dancers based on their appearance. I had a good friend a long time ago who only dated girls who were really huge. He like the "Ruebenesque" look. His wife had been very thin and I guess he got tired of that. Anyway I think it made life easy for him since not too many guys go for the porkers. Different strokes ... I also once had a secretary who was well over 300 lbs. She was really good and very nice and wanted to lose weight. But everytime she went on a diet and started to exercise her father gave her a hard time. He wanted her to stay home and take care of him. She lived with her dad, was in her mid-30's, and was a great cook, and was especially fond of baking. I thought it was pretty sad.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    If a customer prefers a FAT dancer, then great for the customer because the dancers are cheaper by the pound. Those customers willing to overlook the FATTIE or give the FATTIE an even break are "enablers" who aren't doing themselves or the porker any favors. Just Say No to FATTIES and yes to a healthy lifestyle. (BTW, I'm a FATTIE.)
  • train
    •
    19 years ago
    If I had a choice between a dancer with a nice body and a so-so face and an overweight dancer that is pretty, I would tend to go with the one with the nice body.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    Well FONDL, that's why I'm there too.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    "Is someone who doesn't take care of her body disrespecting it? Yes, of course they are." Thank you Yoda, that's what I've been trying to say all along. And if she isn't willing to show respect for her body, I'm not going to either, which means she can look elsewhere for money, she isn't going to get any from me. BTW, when I use the term "respect" as a verb, I mean "to show respect for." In other words it's not what she thinks, it's what she does that's important. And I apologize if I gave the impression that I was talking about her total self-respect, my comments were meant to refer to a dancer's body only. I agree that how she treats her body says nothing about her solf-respect in other areas. But I personally don't especially care, it's her body that's important to me in a strip club. That's why I'm there, to see beautiful bodies.
  • ShotDisc
    •
    19 years ago
    would rather have a dancer who has a few extra pounds than one that looks like she hasn't eaten in weeks. i hate skinny, flat chested dancers. have gotten dances from some true fatties over the years. nothing to write home about. but have gotten some of the absolute best mileage from the girls who are soft and curvy.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Yoda, what goes on inside their head is irrelevant. I'm not assuming anything about their minds. Not taking care of their body properly is by definition not respecting their body, the two mean the same thing. And that's all I'm talking about, respecting their body, not their overall self-respect as you keep inferring from my comments. I'll make a deal with you, Yoda. Tell me about one dancer you know who is doing everything she can to take proper care of her body - she eats a healthy diet, exercises vigorously and regularly, and she gets proper treatment for any medical problems she may have, and has been doing so for some time - and in spite of all that she still appears to be seriously overweight and out of shape. Tell me about such a girl and I will concede that you are correct, that I unfairly stereotype dancers based on their weight and overall appearance. And if you can't, I'll assume that I'm right, that dancers wo are seriusly overweight and out of shape don't have much respect for their bodies, and therefore there's no reason why I should either.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: Onece again, for about the ten thousandth time. How do you know what is going on inside another person's brain without getting to know them? You don't. You couldn't possibly. Naturaly you are free to respect or not respect any person-male or female- who you don't feel is taking proper care of themself. However, that is your opinion based on your criteria of what you consider to be healthy or unhealthy, attractive or unnatractive or whatever.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi Fondl, I knew 2 dancers, both super hotties, who were actively working to get FAT because their perception was that FAT is more womanly. Over at Take One this 1 small hottie asked me why did I pick her when there were still big women available. The customers next to me said that just because I was white I shouldn't feel the need to settle for less. These people actually believed bigger was better and I'm NOT just talking bigger breasts. Of course, that is the exception in this country at least and I think a dancer who is FAT is NOT respecting herself and I don't think based on the dictionary definition that it makes any difference at all how she feels about it.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Yoda, I have a question for you. About 10 years ago I decided to take my health seriously by losing wieght and getting fit. Since then I've done a ton of research on the subject. I've read everything I could find on the subject including a great many articles about people who lost weight and got in shape ("Mens Health" and "Mens Fitness" magazines both run regular features on such success stories), I've watched dozens of TV shows featuring similar stories, and I've read many books on the subject. One common thread that runs throughout them all is the concept of "regaining lost self-respect" as an element of fitness. They all agree with the dictionary definition that failure to take care of yourself is by definition low self-respect, and that one of the great benefits of improvining your fitness is an improvement in self-respect. You're the only peson I've ever come across who disagrees with that. I wonder why?
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Posted by: Dain Never give a fatty an even chance. If girls don't respect themselves enough to stay in decent shape, then I don't respect them, either. Would look good on a T-Shirt and sounds very Zen, sort of like chocolate wins friends. :)
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    Posted by: Dain Never give a fatty an even chance. If girls don't respect themselves enough to stay in decent shape, then I don't respect them, either. I'm also a 9. Do you care how much she weighs? Mon, May 2, 2005 @ 2:58 pm Posted by: FONDL "If girls don't respect themselves enough to stay in decent shape, then I don't respect them either." I once said something similar on the pink site and got really slammed for voicing such an outrageous opinion. Glad to hear that I'm not alone in thinking that dancers should stay in shape. FONDL: These are your words and Dains, not mine. These two quotes are what got me invoved in this thread. My response to your's and Daines posts had nothing to do with physical fitness issues-never has and never will. My only question has been and still remains how can you possibly know what is going on inside a dancers head, how much she respects or doesn't respect herself, based on what she looks like? Do you have an answer or not? I have no issues regarding physical fitness or lack there of. My only issue is with stereotyping.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Yoda, I never said that a girl who doesn't meet my criteria has not self respect, those are your words, not mine. What I have said - repeatedly I might add - is that I go to strip clubs to see attractive female bodies. That's why I'm willing to pay $6 for the same beer I could get down the street for half that. I expect any woman who works at the job to take it seriously and give me what I'm paying for, just like I'd expect anyone else in any other field to do the same. A dancer who is seriously out of shape isn't doing that. I'd like to know why you keep misrepresenting what I say. And why you are so touchy about this whole fitness thing. Expecting a dancer to make an effort get in shape is not a radical concept. I can remember when most good clubs required it.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Now it's *no* respect for herself?
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: This debate started because I dissagreed with a very simple that you made regarding dancers, fitness and self respect. All I'm trying to do her is pin you down on how you are arriving at the determination that a dancer who doesn't fit your criteria for your preffered body type has no respect for herself. That's all.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Over at Angels a customer who was smaller than me (and I'm fairly small) was bragging that his dancer (a 300 plus pounder) was much cheaper than my dancer (a 120 pounder)------Cheaper by the pound was his motto. His bones must of been in fantastic shape.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    In the interest of national health and aesthetics and the need for more laws, I think the government should protect strip clubs and their customers from the FAT dancers. Perhaps a 3 prison sentence for employer who hires or allows FAT dancers to work and 30 year sentence for the FAT dancer plus a $300,000 fine.
  • Junkman
    •
    19 years ago
    Yes, I do. When I go to Strip Clubs I generally look for exceptional Women. I generally prefer Petite Women and those mean Women no taller then 5'7" and no heavier then 130 lbs. At the same time I dont like Anorexics. So generally she should be at least 92 lbs. To me, if I cannot be able to carry her without pain then she is within my desires. I have noticed that lately (At least in my area) Dancers are generally packing on more and more weight. I think Clubs should stop hiring the heavyweights and insist on Women who are agile, flexible, clean, slim but not bony, at least some intelligence, polite, practice good customer service and who actually enjoy their job. However, I did know a CPL. Hutchinson from the USMC who loved fat women. His dream was to have a fat woman engulf him. That meant having a nude, fat woman stand at the end of the bed while he layed spread eagle on the bed. The fat Woman would then fall on top of hime completly engulfing him in her fat. To CPL. Hutchinson that was a fantasy that he so much wanted.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    It will also depend on the other girls there. I'll try to choose the one who appeals to me the most, based on her overall appearance. And to me appearance is more than just looks, it also includes how she acts, how she moves, how she handles herself on stage, how she appears to relate to customers, how she acts toward me when I go up to tip her. A nice smile is very important to me. I'm also impressed when I find a girl who is very graceful, which I've found to be a pretty rare thing in clubs. And I'm turned off by the real aggressive ones, I like a touch of shyness. BTW, neither fitness nor respect has anything to do with how I choose a lady. I don't care if she's fit or not, as long as she appears to be reasonably fit that's all that matters. Similarly I dont care whether she appears to respect herself or if I respect her. In fact I've had some very fun times in SC's with girls who I had little respect for. You probably have too. So if you want to restrict this discussion to choosing dancers in clubs, there's no need for us to discuss either fitness or respect.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    Well ok then. based on that "first impression". are you going to approach her to sit at your table?
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    No you can't. My first impression might be that she probably does, depending on how fit she appears to be. But until I got to know her I really wouldn't know. Being slim isn't the issue, as you've pointed out before. Taking good care of yourself is, and lots of slim people don't take care of themselves. But I don't know of many really fat people who take care good of their bodies, most of the ones who I have met have poor eating habits and get very little exercise. You've said several times that until you know someone's story you can't judge them and I totally agree with that, although I would prefer to use the term "form an opinion" as opposed to "judge" because the latter term has come to mean "condemn" in common usage, and as I've said before I do form opinions about people but I try not to condemn anyone. But having a good reason for doing something that's bad for you doesn't change the fact that you're still doing something that's bad for you. I'd venture to say that everyone who does things that are bad for them has what they consider good reasons for doing so, otherwise they'd change their behavior. People like Dr. Phil (of whom I'm not a big fan BTW) are right when they say you have to change someone's thinking before you can change their behavior.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: Lets say you spot a very attractive dancer in the club. She is slim and just the kindof body type you prefer. Can I assume that you would assume that this lady respects her body?
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Kyle, you must have been reading my mind, I was about to say your first sentence in my next post. I don't happen to agree with that by the way, I have a ton of respect for many of the strippers who I have met who are willing to put up with the crap that goes along with stripping in order to better themselves. I think that takes an enormous amount of courage. But what's interesteing is that I've met some ex-strippers who would agree that anyone who strips for $$$ has little self-respect - they'd tell you that they themselves had little at the time and now that they've matured they would never do it again. My ATF sorta feels that way. And my current fav says that when she used to strip she had no self-respect, but she took some time off to clean up her act and now approaches dancing with an entirely different mind set. I have a lot of respect for her.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Some people believe that a woman who would disrobe for $$$ lacks self-respect therefore all strippers who strip for $$$ lack self-respect. In the same vein some people believe FATTIES lack self-respect because they don't take proper care of their bodies.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    I determine it the same way they do. Dancers who care enough about their bodies to take care of them properly are showing a high level of self-respect for that part of themselves. I agree with you that this says nothing about their self-respect in other areas of their lives, but by definition it says a lot about their self-respect for their bodies. And that's mainly why I go to strip clubs, to see attractive female bodies. If my objective were good conversation, I can get that a lot cheaper elsewhere. I enjoy the conversation in SC's but that's not why I'm there. I'm there to see attractive female bodies. Aren't you?
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: I'm not debating the dictionary definition of a word or group of words. I'm debating how you form your opinions about a dancer's level of self respect. I really don't think this is going anywhere at this point.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Yoda, you and I must be using different dictionaries. Mine defines self-respect as "proper regard for oneself..." And defines "respect" as "admiration, consideration ..." Not showing proper consideration for your body is, therefore, by definition not exhibiting self respect, assuming that you consider your body as part of your self, regardless of the reason why you are doing so. Similarly, when I say that I have more respect for a fit dancer, I'm saying that I admire her more. And after all, isn't that what going to a strip club is all about, admiring beautiful bodies? If it wasn't for that, I'd go to the bar down the street for half the price. Yoda, you're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the "Oxford American Discionary, Heald Colleges Edition."
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: Yes, I would think he was acting in an irresponsible manner. However, that would not give me the right to assume that the 16 year old has no self-respect. What else do you know about this kid beyond what happened to the car? That 16 year old may abuse the car but may also be pulling a 4.0 grade point average at school, be visiting nursing homes 3 days a week, be an Eagle scout and volunteer in a homeless shelter. You simply don't know. A dancer may be 20 lbs overweight and that is a perfectly valid reason for you not to want to buy dances from her. Any judgement you make about her beyond that, without knowing anything else about her life is simply, in my mind, not fair.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    OK, Yoda, here's the first question that you ignored: Suppost your neighbor gave his 16 year old son a car, and instead of taking care of it he mistreated it. Wouldn't you think less of him as a result? BTW, I did start this thread talking about strippers only, I was under the impression that you expanded it beyond the original topic.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: First of all, you are trying to expand the conversation beyond the topic at hand: Dancers. I am making my comments based on your comments about how you decide who you are going to spend your money on in a strip club and based on your statements that you can not respect a dancer who has no respect for herself. I am not making any judgements about the way you conduct your life or your opinions beyond what we are talking about here. This board and this thread are about dancers and strip clubs. The only thing we really know about each other is that we both enjoy strip clubs. I think it's best if we confine ourselves to that topic. As far as me doing the same thing that you are doing I don't see how that is the case. I'm responding to your words when I post, I am giving you my opinion on your opinions. That is not the same as looking at a woman and deciding that, since she doesn't meet your selection critereia, she must not respect herself very much without ever speaking a word to her. Again, I'm addressing only one issue here. A very simple issue based on statement that you have made right here and on other boards in black and white. I'm really not interested in either of us psychonalyzing the other. That's not what this board is about. I applogize if, in responding to your posts, I have not answered a specific question. I find that happens quite a bit on these boards as most people would rather expand on the previous post than answer questions. If you would like to ask any particular question again, I will answer.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    [view link] These four clearly do NOT respect themselves or others (attack against aesthetic). LOL!
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Yoda, I once read that the characteristics that upset us the most about others are characteristics that we ourselves often possess but aren't willing to admit, especially to ourselves. You've criticized me repeatedly for forming conclusions about others based on limited data. I think that if you honestly reread your posts on this thread you will find that you have done exactly that to me numerous times. I find that to be very interesting. I also find it interesting that you haven't tried to answer any of my questions. If you'd like to continue this discussion, that might be a good place to start.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    [view link] Looking at the definitions provided by [view link] it could be argued that MOST FATTIES have NO self-respect because they lack "due respect for oneself." Or, ALMOST NO FATTIES have self-respect because they lack "the quality of being worthy of esteem or respect."
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Yoda hollers "As far as the term 'self-respect' goes, how is that term any different than saying that if a dancer doesn't respect herself, you don't either?" To me there is a HUGE difference between what you're saying and what Fondl is saying. A dancer may have self-respect and yet NOT respect herself e.g. her body. For example, I know more than a few FATTIES who believe that they're the hottest bestest lookingest dancers around. To them FAT is beautiful and they have NO problem eating and eating and eating right to the hospital. I would say they have a very high opinion of themselves i.e. self-respect. At the same time these FATTIES are NOT respecting themselves in that they are abusing their bodies. They may NOT consider it abuse. That is irrelevant. To my way of thinking they are NOT respecting themselves when they don't stay in healthy shape. That doesn't mean that they don't have self-respect--they might or might not. Fondl is right on the $$$.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: I am not putting words in your mouth. I am using those words to describe my feelings about your posts. Just because you don't like the word "Judge" doesn't mean I'm not going to use it to describe what I think you are doing. As far as the term "self-respect" goes, how is that term any different than saying that if a dancer doesn't respect herself, you don't either? I'm not putting any of these phrases in quotation or attributing them to you, I am responding to your words.That's all. You are absoultely right, we are never going to agree about this topic but who says we have to? The fact that we are able to present two oposing points of view without resorting to name calling and personal insults is what makes it interesting for me. It's not really important weather we agree or not.
  • davids
    •
    19 years ago
    Obviously most SC patrons are going to care about looks and not like fat chicks. Those into extras are going to gravitate to the larger ones b/c the large girls are going to have to have a higher average mileage in order to compete. I guess it's conceivable that certain patrons who are going more for the compainship aspect won't care too much, unless they go for the compainship aspect and need a self-esteem boost in which case a hot chick is more likely to give them that boost: wow look a hot chick is pretending to like me for only$x/minute!
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Yes I am following what you are saying, I just don't agree with you at all, especially your last two posts. I have the right to form whatever opinions I choose about anything and anyone. I will also point out once again that you are putting words into my mouth. I have never used the term "self-respect" in this thread, that's your term, not mine. Nor have I ever said that I "judge" people, again that's your term, not mine. You and I are never going to agree on this issue so why don't we just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: How many different ways do you want me to say this? You have no business judging a persons level of self respect based on any criteria-mind body or otherwise. You are free to form whatever opinions you want to about that person but those are YOUR opinions, not thiers. I'm starting to wonder if you are even following what I'm talking about here.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    OK, let's stop talking about someone's body and talk about their mind. If one person works hard to develop their mind while another does not, doesn't this tell you that the first person has more respect for their mind than does the second? It certainly does to me. So why is it any different if we're talking about their body?
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    I don't think someone else's SELF respect is something YOU can gauge FONDL, that is my entire point. You can look at a woman and decide if YOU respect her or not, that is your choice. Whatever criteria you choose is your business. My argument here has never really been about looks or preferences or about how you or I decide who we like better or want to spend our money and time with. y simple assertion here is that, if you don't know what is going on in a woman's head and her life, you have no business judging the level of respect she has for herself. As you and I both know, there are some people out there who think that just the act of being a stripper robs a woman of her self respect. I've never met a dancer who felt that way.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Just curious, Yoda, but how should I guage the level of respect that someone has for their body? If fitness and weight aren't good indicators, what are? Or don't you consider their body to be part of their self?
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: You have to do whatever works for you, as I do for me. All I can say to you is that I'ts just not a problem for me. Dancers approach me and say hello, I chat a bit, I like them or I don't like them, it goes on, or doesn't, from there. If you prefer to make the first move then obviously you are going to pick a girl that fits your preferences. How you choose dancers is not what got me involved in this thread. Your statement regarding body type and how it relates to self-respect is what did.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Yoda, I don't need to form an opinion about all of them, just one of them, the one I choose to spend time with. And as I said before, I'd rather pick her than have her pick me, which means that I have to do it from a distance. If there's another possibility I don't know what it is, please enlighten me. You always have to oversimplify in a format such as this, otherwise the posts become so long that nobody reads them.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDl: I understand what you are saying about your doctor friend. But, as you can see, missunderstandings can happen when you try to oversimplify things.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    Kyle: Yes, it's true that I prefer dancers who are dancing to earn a living, rather than to spend all day hanging around with whomever will buy them drinks or get them high. Dead end girls hold no interest for me.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: I guess my question would be why do you NEED to form an opinion about every girl you see in a strip club? I don't. I go to the same clubs all the time. There are dozens of dancers who have been around for years whom I have never spoken with, know nothing about and don't care if I ever do. I simply don't need to put every person in the room into a certain box. By the way, I worked for 10 years for a company that recorded and video taped focus groups. I'm no expert but I've seen the results of some very good and some very bad market research. If that's your background then I guess you are going to apply that school of thought to strip clubs. If it works for you thats fine. It doesn't work for me, in clubs or anywhere else.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi Fondl, I think I've said this before, but it is excellent that you were able to get back in shape. I used to be a workout nut trying to get stronger and stronger (easy for me) while trying to minimize muscle growth (difficult for me). Just as with using some drugs there can be negative side effects to working out so I purposefully got away from it. I can just imagine Yoda seeing me sleeping curled up on the sidewalk with dirty clothes. Think he would assume that I was poor as well as down and out based on my appearance? LOL! Naw, he would have an in depth discussion with me first and then realize that I work for the government as part of homeland security. ;) So let that be a lesson to you Fondl: APPEARANCE IS IRRELEVANT and you have NO right to thoughts steming from a person's appearance!!! Actually the world might be a better place with that type applied thinking?
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi Yoda, How about the stereotype that dancers are in it just for the money? That's right. We finally agreed that you and I meet very different types of dancers with your dancers just being in it for the money. I'm thrilled to hear you're NOT stereotyping crack whores. It seemed like you were trying to claim that a porker with 20lbs excess weight was better than a crack whore. I think a lot of the anti-crack whore nonsense is merely nasty government propaganda. Hell, more than a few winos are just as pathetic, but that hardly means all winos are pathetic. Thank you for the benefit of your erudition (re: the literary device k.a. sarcasm). As you are probably aware I'm a grade school drop out and also I was raised in the United States so crumbs of knowledge are most welcome. :)
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi Yoda, How about the stereotype that dancers are in it just for the money? That's right. We finally agreed that you and I meet very different types of dancers with your dancers just being in it for the money. I'm thrilled to hear you're NOT stereotyping crack whores. It seemed like you were trying to claim that a porker with 20lbs excess weight was better than a crack whore. I think a lot of the anti-crack whore nonsense is merely nasty government propaganda. Hell, more than a few winos are just as pathetic, but that hardly means all winos are pathetic. Thank you for the benefit of erudition (re: the literary device k.a. sarcasm). As you are probably aware I'm a grade school drop out and also I was raised in the United States so crumbs of knowledge are most welcome. :)
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    Kyle: I don't think any stereotypes are acceptable. was using literery device known as sarcasm....
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    And Yoda, I agree with you that it's often unfair to judge people from afar without taking the time to get to know them first. My problem is I don't know how to do that. Where do you find the time to get to know everyone you come into contact with? And if you don't do that, how do you determine which strangers to spend time with and get to know vs. which ones to pass by? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I honestly don't know how to do this other than how I do it now, which is to make some assumptions about people based on my first impressions, which admittedly may be very wrong. Even limiting it to a strip club where there may be 25 or so girls working, seems to me there are only two choices: either I pick a girl based on her overall appearance, which includes both looks and how she acts, or I just sit and wait for whichever one arrives first and take the time to get to know her regardless of my first impression. And given this choice, I choose the first method - I'd rather choose her than have her choose me, even if my criteria are based primarily on looks. BTW, the reason I tend to make assumptions based on observations and make generalizations based on a small sample is because that's what I did for a living for many years - I headed the marketing research function for a large corporation. Guess old habits die hard. Also FYI, in the interest of keeping my previous post from getting too long I oversimplified the doctor discussion. He knows quite a bit about eating disorders and is a very compassionate person. I'm not talking about eating disorders, I'm talking about the typical American who pays little attention to what he drinks and eats and how much exercise he get until one day he discover that he's become obese. It's easy to gain a few pounds each year without noticing but over a lifetime that can really add up to being unhealthy. I know because I used to be like that. Fortunately I woke up before any serious health problems arrived.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    FONDL: I agree with much of what you said in your last post. People do need to take resonsibility for their own lives. That being said. Without knowing what is going on in a person's life, neither you, I, or your doctor friend have any right to judge them. I must say I have a problem with any doctor who thinks that people with eating dissorders don't "really" need medical help. This is the 21st century. Medical science has clearly acknowledged that eating dissorders are a disease that can benefit from various medical treatments. Maybe your frind needs to take some continuing ed. classes and open up his mind a bit.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    I believe on [view link] or [view link] there was a story about a beautiful crack whore stripper who pissed of her super wealthy client/husband. To teach her a lesson about being a pig, he had her force fed until she became a pig IR. The moral of the story apparently was that there is nothing lower than being a FAT former stripper . . . and don't piss off the wealthy . . .
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Yoda wrote "Maybe she's a crack whore. Of course, that's much better than being 20lbs overweight...." Well, gee I think that is pretty self-evident. Of course, if she was a couple pounds overweight instead of 10 or 20lbs overweight, then I *might* choose the overweight one . . . . Do you have some negative stereotypes types about crack whores? Sort of like other people have negative feelings about fatties? I'm guessing you think your negative stereotypes are rational while other's are irrational . . .
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    One of my closest friends is a doctor who has his own family practice. The thing that disturbs him the most is the endless string of patients who come in complaining that they don't feel well and demanding all sorts of tests and pills. He knows that the only thing wrong with them is that they are grossly overweight but of course they won't accept that fact because then they'd have to accept responsibility for their own lives, which has become very unfashionable in our society. So rather than address the problem, they abuse the health care system, which is one of the major reasons why health care costs are rising so rapidly for us all. And this also keeps my friend from spending as much time as he would like to with people who could really use his help. He finds that aspect especially upsetting. He's not alone among the mdical profession. Obesity is a serious problem in our society, not only for those who are seriously overweight but for society as a whole. I admire people who try to take care of themselves by watching what they eat and excercising regularly. I admire people who are willing to take responsibility for their own lives.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    These examples are all very entertaining reading but don't do anything to change my mind. First of all, FONDL, you don't know anything about what fitness means to me. This issue isn't about fitness or lack of it. It's about thinking you know something about a person based on their outward appearance that you couldn't possibly know. I don't care who you spend your money on, that's your business. A few weeks after 9/11 a pizza shop about 30 miles from my house was burned to the ground by a couple of kids. It was burned down because the owner was of Middle Eastern Descent. He and his family have lived in this country for over 20 years and are naturalized US citizens. How's that for an example of how wonderfull value judgements based solely on appearance can work out. I don't have any problem with a guy walking into a club, looking around and picking the prettiest, thinnest dancer in the club to spend money on. Just don't pretend that you know something about the character of the chubby one standing next to her. For that matter, you don't know anything about the skinny one either. Maybe she's a crack whore. Of course, that's much better than being 20lbs overweight....
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    Yoda, I thought those two posts would finally get a rise out of you on this topic. Fitness isn't your thing, is it? But to answer your question, suppose your neighbor gave his kid a nice car for his 16th birthday, and then instead of taking care of the car he abused it. Wouldn't you think less of him as a result? That's how some of us feel about people who abuse their bodies. Some of us think that our bodies are our most valuable possessions and should be cared for properly, that in fact we have a moral obligation to do so. Remember gluttony, one of the seven deadly sins? I know it's an old fashioned concept, but then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi Yoda, People make value judgements all the time (and to some extent it is necessary/wise). For example, let's say you see a man burning an American flag and he is also screaming Death to America. You might correctly or incorrectly conclude that the man has a dislike or whatever for America. The point is your judgement may be 100% incorrect. Here in formerly Dade County there was an election in a black area where one of the candidates receive something like 1,500 votes to 6 votes for his only listed opponent. Some people might conclude that blacks overwhelmingly preferred one candidate over the other candidate. AND, that conclusion could be completely wrong. When I see a FATTIE I may make all types of erroneous conclusions like she is lazy, stupid, a chow hound, etc. That is my right to think whatever I wish to think and I may be completely wrong. In short, I think Fondl and Dain are well within their rights to think negatively about FAT dancers--sure as hell doesn't mean they're correct.
  • Yoda
    •
    19 years ago
    Dain and FONDL: What gives either of you the right to equate a dancer's self respect with her weight? As I've said many times in many threads on many boards; dance with whom ever you want to spend your money on, but don't think for one minute that you know anything about a dancer's life, goals or "self respect" based on what you see when you look at her.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi SuperDude, I guess I'm belaboring the point a little. A person having a freedom isn't the same as your believing that they should have that freedom. Perhaps you have changed your mind or I remember your feelings on the subject incorrectly. I've had both whites and blacks actually gasp when I've said that I think business owners should (generally) be free to hire and fire based on race and that applies to serving and selling as well. One of many flys in the ointment is the special privileges business enties receive via government as well as corporate welfare and government contracts.
  • SuperDude
    •
    19 years ago
    The dancer always has the freedom to choose. I have been brushed off and ignored by more than one dancer in my time. So another dancer got my $300.00 that night.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    Hi SuperDude, 1. Some customers actually like fatties. It is difficult to believe, but I've seen it too often. 2. So you think the customer should have the freedom to choose, but that the dancer shouldn't have that same freedom?
  • SuperDude
    •
    19 years ago
    How does a fat dancer think that she has the same appeal as a trim hottie? The whole experience begins with a physical attraction. For me, overweight is a nonstarter and I'm the customer with the money and the freedom to choose.
  • Dain
    •
    19 years ago
    Never give a fatty an even chance. If girls don't respect themselves enough to stay in decent shape, then I don't respect them, either. I'm also a 9.
  • FONDL
    •
    19 years ago
    "If girls don't respect themselves enough to stay in decent shape, then I don't respect them either." I once said something similar on the pink site and got really slammed for voicing such an outrageous opinion. Glad to hear that I'm not alone in thinking that dancers should stay in shape.
  • chitownlawyer
    •
    19 years ago
    I admit it. I'm shallow. At the risk of sounding/being cynical, the strip club experience, from my point of view is based on the exchange of two commodities: My money; and The dancer's sexuality/sensuality. Therefore, I expect the dancer to appeal to my sense of sexuality/sensuality, which includes having a build within normal body range (actually, my preferences extend a little into what would be included slightly overweight). If I can connect with a dancer personally, and even strike up a friendship occasionally, that's great, too. But I have a lot of female friends, of all ages, body types, and appearance, outside the strip club world. However, they do not rub their naked bodies on me, nor in many cases would I want them to. My ego is strong enough to accept the fact that many, if not most dancers, would not, in open society, without financial inducement, come into close physical contact with a man old enough to be their father (OK, their much older brother). I know that the reason they are willing to do it is because of the money I give them. I'm OK with that, but the trade off is that they have to satisfy my standards of attractiveness. I don't have to satisfy their standards of attractiveness because my friends Andrew, Ulysses and Benjamin have that covered for me. Harsh reality is better than none at all.
  • Clubber
    •
    19 years ago
    Before one even learns about a dancers personality, appearance is always the first measure of want.
  • Kyle1111
    •
    19 years ago
    I haven't met a shy fattie stripper yet and for me that is another negative. Of course, if a slender and fit dancer behaved the same way, then I'd be very happy assuming she had the other attributes of beauty that I need. And, most of these GIANTS are very nice and sweet. Yes, even the 300 plus pounder who sat on me was basically a real sweetie it just that that is painful. I'd still like to know how the typical sized guy let alone a small guy can handle that much weight. I think the guy must just be showing off, but he was doing a good job of looking happy.
  • DandyDan
    •
    19 years ago
    I'm on the other side of the fence on this. If a fat chick decides to take her clothes off for guys for a living in a society that condemns fat chicks for being fat, she can't be too shy about herself. If she thinks she's hot, who are we to argue? It's my opinion they are more open to things as well. In part, I don't mind fat chicks because I want to re-enact my favorite college girlfriend experience, because my favorite ex-girlfriend just happened to be huge.
  • casualguy
    •
    19 years ago
    If I don't find a girl attractive, she isn't getting a dance from me either. Girls who look like balloons don't need to bother asking me for dances. If they don't leave when I'm nice, then I can be a bit less than nice and then they usually get the idea. A little bit overweight is probably ok but not as good as normal. I have discovered though that some guys actually like fat dancers and I mean really big balloon fat. I don't understand those guys nor do I understand how some guys get excited by feet either. Maybe they are the lucky guys if they can get excited that easily. Lol, lucky and laughed at by friends.
  • komey1970
    •
    19 years ago
    For me, the girl doesn't have to be slender, but she can't be fat either. So I guess that would mean that she would have to be fit. I generally don't get dances from girls that I don't find attractive. I think I have only done that once or twice. Some girls that I don't care for are real nice, but I wouldn't take them back for a dance.
  • Kyle1111
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    19 years ago
    Hi Fondl, If she is really nice, then perhaps she can change her style a little. You could explain that you enjoy lighter contact. Some dancers grind super hard because they think that is what the customer wants and they're trying to really earn their money. Plus, many customers love a super hard grind. (I prefer a lighter slower contact. My equipment is far too sensitive for rough play.) Or, you could talk about an old injury that you don't like to talk about, but that you feel pain later if there has been too much pressure so any dances will need to be lighter than the norm. If possible try sugar coated honesty especially with nice dancers.
  • FONDL
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    19 years ago
    Kyle, she actually wasn't that big and would probably really be insulted if she ever read this. But I'm a little guy and so a girl doesn't have to be very large to be my size, which is what she probably was. I'd guess she was probably 20 to 30 pounds overweight, which probably made her about 150-160. But that was enough to just about kill me. No thanks, never again. But what do you do with a girl who is really nice to you and who you like as a person but you don't want to spend the evening with her? To me that's a real dilemma. Maybe I'm too polite but whenever I have run into that situation I've found it very uncomfortable. Which is why I make sure I'm attracted to a girl physically before I give her a chance to get to know me. Obviously that rule only applies to places that feature laps.
  • Kyle1111
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    19 years ago
    Hi Fondl, I hate to admit it, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who has been crushed by a big dancer. NO, I did NOT buy a dance from any big dancers. Trying to be sexy they sit on me! I learned to cross my legs to make it difficult for them to sit, but some will attempt to uncross them. :( Meanwhile these GIANTS receive wayyyyyy tooooooo much encouragement from other customers. I always wonder how do these guys deal with the extreme weight? Do they have no feeling in their legs? Do they enjoy pain? Are their bones that good? This one GIANT thought I was joking when I told her that I was in pain. She couldn't believe a mere 300 plus pounds could cause any harm. She then went and sat on a guy much smaller than me and he was loving it!? I don't know what to do in that situation when you don't want to hurt her feelings.
  • FONDL
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    19 years ago
    I will admit to being biased on this issue based on an episode that happened about 7 years ago. My ATF and several of her friends had a fight with their club manager and quit dancing. As a result I began looking for a new club. Based on TUSCL reviews I tried a place near Baltimore that I really liked, a small friendly neighborhood kind of place with full nudity and medium mileage laps. The first time I went in I was sitting at the bar and was soon joined by a dancer. She wasn't at all my type, being a fairly big girl, heavy and built like a fire plug, but she was very pleasant and moderately attractive so we sat and talked for quite a while, then headed for LD land. It was the worst dance I've ever gotten, downright painful, and I couldn't wait for it to end. Which made for an all-around bad night, since there were other girls there who I found attractive but it was a slow night and I couldn't get rid of the one I was with. But it gets worse - I went back a week later and this same girl immediately came over, greeted me like an old friend and sat down next to me to talk. OK, now what do I do? She had been very pleasant and very nice to talk to, but that wasn't what I was there for, I was hoping to meet some of the other girls, but I didn't want to make an enemy either. It was probably the most uncomfortable time I've ever had at a strip club, probably the only time that I had no idea what to do. (What would you guys do?) Anyway, as a result I now follow the same strategy as Shadowcat - if I don't find a girl attractive she doesn't get the first interview.
  • Kyle1111
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    19 years ago
    Slender and fit is very important to me. The customers that I see buying dances don't seem to care about weight at all. The dancer could be huge or slim. It seems to make no difference. I will be pursued by a porker and it is a total turn-off. But, how is the dancer to know? More than a few guys are eager for her charms and some are so damn shy that the dancer has no way of knowing unless she's aggressive! That is one reason I believe in advocating that customers ask for what they want. Yes, that includes full service. I can only laugh and feel a little disgust at the dancer who is too sensitive to politely say NO THANK YOU or I'M NOT THAT TYPE OF A GIRL.
  • Yoda
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    19 years ago
    FONDL: I'll refer you back to the origin of our argument, the two posts by you and Daine that I pasted in a few posts back. What you agreed with, and what we started this debate with then is not what you are saying now. It's not a question of who is right or wrong. This has nothing to do with either of us being right or wrong. We obviously use different criteria to judge women (please, I don't care if you like the word "judge" or not, it's my choice to use it in my posts) Is someone who doesn't take care of their body dissrespecting it? Well yes, of course they are. Anyone can see that. Does that mean the person in question has no self-respect? Who knows, only that person could answer that.
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