More stripper shit

If they didn't I assume they wouldn't be favorites. To me that's the only thing that makes any sense. If they treat you the way you want to be treated, keep coming back. If they don't, move on.

Shadowcat, the first time I was ever a regular almost the exact same thing happened to me. I was pissed off for awhile because of the way she dumped several of us but eventually I decided that it had been a good learning experience. It was through her that I also met my ATF so that worked out well. But I really felt sorry for this other guy who was totally in love with her and spent a ton of money on her that she couldn't afford. My experience with my ATF was the exact opposite - she quit dancing almost over 7 years ago and we're still close friends. But she was a whole lot younger, which is maybe why I like the young ones better.

Hi Shadowcat,

Just because she disappeared doesn't mean she didn't and doesn't consider you a friend. I disappeared many many years ago and it had nothing to do with my buddies. The depression was just too much and I needed to just forget everything and everyone. I think the only people who can really understand are those who suffer from extreme depression. I'm not talking about being sad for good reason. I'm talking a lot of pain and too much information and very strong need to block everything. Unfortunately, block everything out includes very good and close friends. :(

Shodowcat: That's the best outlook you can have: No regrets. It's not unusual for dancers to drop of the face of the earth when they decide to get out. I've kept in touch with my ATF since she quit nearly two years ago but she never speaks to anyone else from the club and hasn't since she cleaned out her locker. Sometimes a clean break is the only way. It's best to remember the good times you had at the club and keep it in perspective with, as you said, no regrets.

Hope you guys don't mind me butting in here since I don't think I've ever posted in these discussions before, but this topic caught my eye so I thought I'd let you guys know about an experience I've had.

I visit the better clubs in my area fairly regularly and have gotten to know several of the girls well. I had been spending quite a bit of time (and money) with one girl at my favorite club off and on for a couple of months last fall when out of the blue one night she gave me her phone number and asked me to call her. She knew I visited other clubs and was friends with other dancers so I thought she was just trying to get me to spend all my time and money with her and quit going to the other clubs. When she gave me her phone number she made me promise not to let anyone know that she had done that because she said it was against club rules and that she could get fired. I've had other girls give me their numbers too and was never interested in pursuing things so even though I kept her number I didn't call her. I didn't go back to that club for a couple of weeks and when I did she came and sat with me as soon as she saw me. We started talking and she said she was worried that she had scared me off by giving me her number and was glad to see me. I told her that I still had her number, but that I had been busy and hadn't had a chance to call her. She said that was OK and that she was hoping I'd find time to call her soon. She asked if she could have my number so I gave her my cell number.

That weekend she called me and we talked on the phone for over an hour. The only time she mentioned work was saying that it was nice to be able to talk to me without having to yell over the music. We had a really nice conversation talking mainly about her plans to visit her family in a couple of weeks. She hadn't been home in a while and was really looking forward to the visit. I didn't go to the club the next week, but that weekend I had some free time so I called her and asked if she would like to go out to dinner. We went out and had a great time. When I dropped her off she invited me in and I declined. She said that was what she liked most about me, that I was a gentleman and didn't treat her like a whore like most of the guys at the clubs do. I kissed her goodnight and left.

The following week she called me on Tuesday night and said she was going in to work late that night and asked if I'd like to meet her after I got off work and have dinner on her way in. She said this time it was her treat. I said ok and we met at a place not far from the club she works at and had a nice dinner. After dinner she asked me what my plans for the evening were. The cynic in me figured that she was wanting me to go to the club and spend the rest of the night blowing money on her. As it turned out the exact opposite was the case. I asked why she was wanting to know and she said that she hoped I wasn't wanting to go to the club! This threw me for a loop so I asked her why and she said that it was against club rules to date customers so if I went to the club I'd have to see one of the other girls instead of her. She said "I won't be at work next week, so it's safe for you to go and have a good time then if you want". I told her I didn't know we were dating and she said that she hoped we were. I told her to enjoy her trip and to call me when she got back. She called me at work the day she got back to town and said she wanted to see me. She said that this time she wanted to cook dinner for me at her place. I went over to her place that evening (Friday) and ended up spending the entire weekend there. We have been dating regularly since around November, and while I still go to the other clubs ocassionally I have quit going to the club she works at.

Anyway, she has told me many times that a lot of the girls do meet guys they would like to date but that either the guys get the wrong impression (like I did at first) and think they are just after money, or they find out the guys have lied about wives, girlfriends, etc. She said that even if they do go out with a customer is seldom works out because most guys like going to the clubs and looking at the girls until one of the girls is their girlfriend then they get jealous and want them to quit dancing. Basically what it comes down to is that if both people are honest and comfortable with the relationship it can work, but it isn't easy. The guy and the girl both have to be open minded and flexible or it will never happen. If a girl shows interest in a guy it's not always about the money. Like skdii said, these girls often don't have a lot of normal relationships. Sometimes it's tougher for them to meet someone and have a relationship than guys would believe.

By the way, skdii, I meant to add earlier that I agree with your very first post on this thread. I think many strippers do have problems with relationships. I've been friends with several strippers and every one of them had huge relationship problems. I think it comes in part from having very disfunctional family backgrounds and not having any good role models, which I've found to be pretty common among strippers. My current fav definately fits this description.

I don't think it's anything that I have to worry about anytime soon. She still has at least 3 years of college to go, stripping is probably her only option of paying for it, and the club in which she works is probably the only one in the area where she can make the kind of money that she makes. By the time she's ready to quit, I probably will be too. It will be interesting to see whether we continue to see each other after that, I'm betting not but one never knows. Do you still see your ATF, and if so as customer, friend or both? I still see mine, but as friend only. Darn it.

BTW, have I described this girl? I don't remember and I'm too lazy to look back so please forgive me if I'm repeating myself. Let me just say that in 40+ years of clubbing she is the best dancer I've ever met. She is my idea of what a perfect dancer should be. I've met girls who had a perfect body, other girls who had a gorgeous face, some with a great personality, some who were intelligent and interesting, and a few who had great dancing ability, but never before have I met a girl who had all that in one package. But I think the thing that really pushes her over the top for me is the way she moves - I'm not much for watching dancers on stage but I could watch this girl all night long. If she told me that she had taken professional dancing lessons for 10 years (which she hasn't) I would believe her. She has that natural gracefulness that you hardly ever see but never forget. This girl is the only across-the-board perfect 10 dancer I have ever met. So will I continue to be her customer? Without a doubt - as long as she dances I'm her customer. In fact, as I've told her, she is my last dancer. When she's done, so am I. Perfection only comes along once in a lifetime. If you're lucky.

If my objective with this girl was to become friends or something along those lines, I might be discouraged at this point. Which is why I don't have any objectives other than to have fun. Guys, this is a hobby for me, a way to have some fun, nothing more. The only relevant questions for me are, am I having fun and am I getting my money's worth? If the answers are yes, I continue to be her customer. When one of those answers turns to a no, I move on. This is recreation and nothing more. Just like a sporting event. In my opinion any other attitude would makes me a PL. And thanks, Davids, for your concerns, but my self-esteem is just fine.

Hi Fondl,

Many strippers are in the fantasy business and are playing a role. So if a stripper presents herself in a fantasy role as poor and uneducated, then I might buy into that fantasy. If I later learn thru her efforts that she's a graduate of Harvard and has 3 or 4 mansions, then she will have destroyed my fantasy. In the same vein if she shows herself to a considerate person and then shows her true nature my fantasy will have been destroyed.

Sorry about the SS problem, FONDL.

You seem to be suggesting in this thread that Yoda's simplisitc strippers are just profit maximizers model isn't quite right. I think am with you on this on. I remember seeing behaviour which was very non-profit maximizing even so much that girls as dumb as most strippers are ought to have been able to know it if they thought about it for a bit. I would even conjecture that for most strippers the manipulative, I am smarter than the customers becuase I can outplay them aspect of their job is more important. (Also getting revenge on men for past injustices comes into play too.) This is a common trait in sociopaths. Also the failure to credit their victims with any kind of intelligence or sense of self worth.

In any case, I think a lifestyle change is in order for you: How about spending some money to bolster your self- esteem so you don't get played by users in the future (and then go back to them even after they've smacked you down)?

Maybe RL can provide some resources to help FONDL out here?

Really what's the difference? If you like her dances and enjoy her comany then go see her. If the SS factor turns you off then don't. SS exists even with girls we like. It's simply a matter of weather one can enjoy the time spent with the lady or not.

I'll bet he is smart enough to know that also, and I think earlier in the thread he made the point that he thought he'd be hearing from her when she needed money.

The key is does he hold a grudge and or is the fantasy destroyed. I think he is willing to forgive her at least once.

I bet you will.

Well, folks, guess who called me yesterday. Turns out she hasn't been to work for 3 weeks because her back has been bothering her. (This is probably true, I know she has a lot of back problems.) Anyway she's back at work again, gave me her schedule and invited me to come see her. Want to place bets on whether I will or not?

Yoda, I totally agree but there are exceptions. My ATF was pretty much the same person outside the club as inside, but that's because she was very young and was also a bit of a hustler naturally, it was part of her personality. But I think that's pretty rare. And maybe partly accounts for why she's my ATF.

Yoda,

I've only know four dancers outside the club routine. Every one of them was, as you said, very different outside the club. Inside, they all treated me differently then the other regulars, but outside they were different again. Like three different personalities.

It's all acting. I've had the same experience. Inside the club, unless you are not spending any money on a girl, she is saying and doing what she thinks she needs to in order to get you to spend money on her. It doesn't matter if she likes you. Lots of girls like many of their customers. Her primary goal at the club-if she has her head on straight-is to make money. OTC is a different story but beware, some dancers simply take the acting OTC in order to get more money out of you. If women couldn't act, their wouldn't be strip clubs.

The key here is to remember that dancing is a job. These women have lives outside of work and, as much as some guys would like to beleive that all strippers do nothing but dance naked for strange men while waiting for one of them to sweep her off her feet it just isn't the case. Most of these women adopt a money making oersonna in the club and leave it in the dressing room at the end of their shift. In most cases, the only time a dancer thinks of you is when she is driving to work, going over her list of regulars in her mind and trying to figure out which ones might be coming in that night.

There's a real PL tale here:

http://sixtysplace.blogspot.com/2005/02/…

I think we give these girls way too much credit for thinking about this stuff. In my opinion they don't give it or us any thought at all most of the time, they are just flapping their gums while their minds are elsewhere. My erstwhile favorite probably hasn't given any thought to me and only will if at some point her business drops off and she's looking for customers. That's just the way it is.

Have you ever heard SS such as a stripper you just met but got a dance from talking about giving you her phone number so you could talk and maybe get together OTC, and then she says,
"you probably wouldn't call me, would you?" I was thinking this girl is crazy, we never talked about getting together and I never asked for any phone number. I was wondering though if this stripper was a mind reader.

If I like a dancer and she wants to get together with me OTC and have a bite to eat, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with that. I would even offer to pay for her meal in spite of what RL thinks that I might be wasting my money. I would do that with other non dancing girls as well. I just have to remember to be on guard against SS though if I do agree to meet a dancer OTC. Some girls do like to hang out or go out while a few just seem interested in dancing at their house. At least that is what I've heard. By SS you want to make sure that they don't expect money for anything. I have heard a lot of SS and that is the big reason I don't ask any strippers OTC.

She may have TALKED about getting together with you OUTSIDE THE CLUB to get you to spend MONEY on her and may have decided that spending time with you OUTSIDE THE CLUB was not worth the MONEY that she thought she would be getting as a result of spending time with you OUTSIDE THE CLUB

FONDL: I agree that newer dancers are less prone to this kind of behavior. But I have also found that many veteran dancers (the ones who are not completely jaded) are less prone to SS, especialy with a regular customer. I have a fav who I've known for 5 years, I've visited her regularly through 3 different clubs. We enjoy each other's company, she is great in the private dance booth and she has never once suggested that we "get together" outside of the club. My preference is for older women, some of whom are new to dancing, some of whom have been at it for a while. The possibilty of head games definitely increases with older ladies. Initialy, it's always best to proceed with caution.

Yoda, I am in complete agreement with your last post. She's the one who kept bringing up the idea of getting together outside the club, I fankly don't care much one way or the other, I was completely satisfied with just being her customer and I told her so many times. In fact I think the reason we got along so well was that I was her only customer who didn't bug her about it. So I totally don't understand why she kept bringing it up. To be perfecctly honest, I don't think these girls give this stuff a lot of thought, they just say what they think you want to hear without ever listening to what you say. This kind of attitude just naturally seems to come from being a stripper. Which is why I try to find girls who are new at it.

FONDL: This sort of SS is, to me the most puzzling. I think some dancers are afraid that we will get sick of them so they float the OTC idea to keep us interested. For me, it's the furthest thing from my mind when I meet a dancer. If a woman treats me right inside the club I'm about as loyal a customer as their is. Once this type of SS starts, It's very easy to move on.

Gingersnap, I think that's probably pretty close to what is happening here. And Yoda, I hope you are right, because that's all I ever wanted from her in the first place. I enjoy her company and enjoy being her customer, she's a great stripper - very attractive, very personable, and very friendly in the LD room - and that's exactly what I'm looking for. (By the way, Yoda, in case you were wondering, she isn't my type and my first impression of her was one of disinterest.) I just find the games annoying and I wish there were some way to avoid them, I'm too old for that shit. Plus I'm puzzled as to why the games because they certainly aren't increasing her income, in fact they save me money. So I guess I should be greatful.

FONDL: You may very well hear from her again...if she's looking for more of your money.

Gingersnap, thanks for giving the guys the lowdown on how some females operate--whether they are dancers or not. I like your honesty!

I know a girl who used to do the same thing to ALOT of her regulars. She would exchange numbers, talk on the phone a few times, and when she thought they were starting to stray, she would ask them out on a date. But the kicker was that she would never respond back, and when she thought they were hooked again, she would make up some BS story why she couldn't make it, and why she didn't answer thier phone calls.

I think it is very wise of you not to try calling again, if out of no where she calls you, and asks you to come to the club, then you will know she pulled the same crap on you.

Yoda, I agree. I actually think that this girl has done me a favor. The club where she works is very expensive and not my type of place at all - I just happened to stop in out of curiousity one day and that was that. So she has already saved me a bundle. Also I was on the fence whether to totally believe her or not so she solved that problem too. I'll probably run into her again some day but I'll certainly behave differently. She really isn't my type anyway, she's way too good looking for one thing and I think it is going to her head. She's also way too serious and doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humor. I don't know if I said this before or not, but I think the main reason that she lost interest in me is that we used to get together in the early afternoon but because of her class schedule this semester she was no longer able to do so. It will be interesting to see what she does once this semester is over. I won't be surprised if I hear from her then, and I won't be surprised if I don't either. I've found most strippers to be totally unpredictable, which I personally find entertaining, a big change from most people who I know. It's kinda refreshing in an odd way.

FONDL: Come on, your smart enough to know exactly what your girl is up to. It's a simple and time honored way of keeping you interested in spending money on her in the club. I would do exactly what you are contemplating. Find another fav and be prepared for the same thing to happen.
Girls like your retired ATF are few and far between. Most of the time it's all BS.

Niceass: What the hell are you talking about. If you want to start a thread about your problems with me thats fine but be a man about it and say what's on your mind. I see you haven't changed. Nor would I have expected you to.

Did you ever get involved with a stripper and suddenly think, how did I get here? A stripper gets upset with you because you don't want to go on a trip with her or do other things with her outside the club. It's hard to resist a stripper who aims to please though. It seems like strippers get emotionally attached real fast. I've heard that is something females tend to do in general.

You got played and a younger guy, the new BF, just pushed you out.

Hey guys, thanks for the excellent responses, I think there's an element of truth in each of them so far.

Just to clarify a little more: First of all Shadowcat hit the nail on the head, she does have a new BF, she told me all about him, and he's not thrilled with her being a dancer. She claims she also has told him all about me, which may or may not be true (BTW, I'm old enough to be her grandfather if that's at all important.) They started living together earlier this year, which is a new thing for her.

The money issue is more complicated that I led you to believe also. She is really gorgeous and is the club's featured dancer, and as a result she has some really high rollers coming in to see her. But so far I've only been in early during the day when none of the others have been there, so there's not a competition problem, other than the fact that she probably wishes I'd up the anty. But I made it very clear early on how much I can afford and that I'm not going to spend more than that. She never seemed to have a problem with that before.

This girl is also very young and fairly immature. Plus she's a full-time college student and only dances about 3 times a week. And she's probably right in the middle of finals. So I'm just assuming that she doesn't have time for me at the moment. That will probably change soon but who knows.

Shadowcat, I never go looking for a favorite either, and most of the time I don't have one. But as you say, every once in awhile it happens, every once in awhile you run into someone who is really special. Like this one. Until this all happened she treated me better than any other dancer ever has. Ever.

FONDL, It's just something about the psyche of some people manipulative people have to be manipulative or they don't know what to do with themselves. Just look at Yoda. Anyway, I think her intention behind the stripper shit is that she simply wants to hold you as a regular as you've been generous. Just tell her that you've been around the block a few times and know the games. If she's still honesty-challenged, spend elsewhere. It's my experience the the stripper shit (as an aggregate total) is on the ebb from it's high water mark a few years ago. The days of the girls making megabucks without having to do any work for it are pretty much gone. At least in this area, they're starting to re-learn who to strippers instead of con-women.

I have had a couple experiences like this. My personal belief is that strippers have a much harder time forging relationships than we as customers would believe. And they get frightened easily by the *gasp* 'commitment' it takes on their part to actual develop an outside the club relationship. I also had another dancer, who had another regular who did not like the amount of time I was spending with her. And that customer brought more money to the table than I did, so I was out. It seems it is just easier for them to discourage us by playing the OTC card and never following up, than to just come out and say they want to back off. Just my humble opinion.

Got to agree with Yoda on this one. "What's the difference?" Exactly. Of course she's only interested in the money, that's why she works, that's why they all do. She's good at her job and I enjoy her company. Isn't that what we're all looking for? As for "destroying the fantasy," as far as I'm concerned there is no fantasy, that's not my thing. And for those of you who choose to fabricate one, you need to always be aware that it only exists in your mind, so she can't destroy it, only you can.

FONDL: Of course, there are definitely exceptions. Two of my best friends are a dancer and an ex dancer. If they where always acting we never would have become friends. I'm not totaly jaded, just realistic.