Comments by davids (page 6)

Well my conclusion is that strippers for the most part have a very low sense of self worth. Customers, for the most part, are exploiting this low sense of self worth and/or the unfortunate circumstances these women find themselves in: taking advantage of their willingness to do acts they find demeaning in order to support children or drug habbits, etc. Also consider what strippers boyfriends tend to be like when determining their sense of self worth. Thus it seems fair that strippers should feel contemptuous of their customers given what their customers are doing: exploiting people in unfortunate circumstances in some case, paying money for things in life that ought to be free. And yeah, alot of strippers do expect money for nothing, but they have grown used to it: alot of customers, apparently, will give it to them. Stupid "industry". (Oh, and before you give your stupid counter argument that you have met 500 strippers and 2 or 3 are not like that, I am only talking about the VAST majority here. Your rare exceptions do not redeem the "industry" overall.)

She was very intelligent, pretty, honest, and kind. She had no concern with making money by doing what strippers do. She was only working for a month because she had lost a bet. My ideal stripper had no interest in being a stripper, and had a general contempt for the "industry" yet she was not a contradiction. I only saw her twice. Geographical circumstances prevented more. Kind of funny, but true. :-)

Any stripper making 200k+ a year is doing serious extras: probably paid sex OTC, and or some serious scamming of her customers. Think we discusses this in a seperate thread. And again it's like 1-2% making that much doesn't prove anything about the VAST majority. I see you folks are up to your usual rheoterical tricks. Sad really.

TopGun is the master of the strawman.

I've seen that one before. Basically she is playing you for a chump. It's partly a control thing. She knows you'll wait around for her so she'll go and take care of less certain business first since you are basically a given. Don't let her take you for grant. Either wait for her to come to you, or better yet, get up and leave and then when she cries next time tell her you got bored of waiting.

Thought of some more stuff: if she does mark you as a chump you are in danger of bigger trouble in the future. Another good plan might be to get a dance from another girl and then leave. :->

Yoda: well she was very intelligent which I gathered from talking to her for two hours about things like science and history. In fact she was easily the smartest stripper I ever talked to. Then I did a couple of LDs with her, but she had just one rule: no touching. *l* Spent like $40 in total on her. (Normally I would spend less if the dances were no good, but felt she deserved to be compensated for her time.) 2nd time I saw her I told her it was just to say "bye" and not get dances but we chatted for an hour anyway. No exchange of money. So she was clearly not trying to hustle me for money. I mean $40 in 3 hours? Things she told me about strippers also turned out to be true before I relized them on my own, so I'm sure this one was honest. Also I've noticed that intelligent people tend to be more honest than less intelligent people, so that's another reason I'm pretty sure this was an honest girl. A couple of reasons for this: 1) intelligent people can get by quite well on their own thank you, without having to take moral short cuts like lying, stealing, and scamming; 2) I beleive that part of having a sense of morals creates a deserve in people to become smart and educated, whereas a lack of morals pretty much rids one of that. Now I know what your lame counter argument is going to be so I will state it for you to save you having to respond: "actually I knew this one highly intelligent person who was a sociopath therefore you are wrong." Whatever, I'm talking about strong tendencies here not absolutes.

Unless you have a CRIMINAL BACKGROUND or a DRUG or ALCOHOL addiction or are a DEAD BEAT without a FUTURE I don't think your chances with (your typical) stripper are very good. If not, you'll just need to set your sites lower.

I disagree with the two of you FONDL, and Yoda. An intelligent and honest stripper is truly an exceptional thing. For the most part those type of girls avoid the business in the first place or bail on it within their first three weeks. Now there are exceptions, as I say, but for the most part your typical stripper is not very bright, is poorly educated, is extremely dishonest, is obsessed with money, is contemptuous of herself, her customers and the world in general, probably has a gambling, alcohol, or drug addiction, and is a single mother who dislikes men in general. Now there are exceptions, but so what, I am talking about averages here.

Which thread FONDL?

Yoda: get real.

Don't know. Don't care. Kinda like asking what's it like to date a car theif, IMO.

This stuff should all be clear from my reviews: Went to SCs pretty regularly for a year. I would say I met between 200-300 dancers during that time. Most of the girls I got to know were from Rick's/Sugars/Honeys/Fox's chain or got started there. This "chain" is owned and run by local organized crime. I've also visited SCs in Vegas and Reno. I didn't really try to get to the know the girls that well (except my ATF mentioned in the "ideal" thread) until *they* started hinting at OTC stuff, and engaged in other forms of lying, stealing, and scamming. Then I got pissed off at them and wanted to know what kind of girls strippers really were, so started asking more question to them and doing research here and on SW. Not impressed by what I learned as you may have gathered from my other posts. Don't know how you two could continue going for 20-40 years that is just amazing. How many average visits a week are we talking. Oh, I also have strong evidence that Yoda is a fantasist: He says that 80% of strippers are intelligent and honest. But if you look at the general population 50% are of below average intelligence. Hence Yoda must think it is much more likely for intelligent girls to choose that line of work than less intelligent ones. Does anyone seriously beleive that? Does Yoda have any credibility left? Yoda and FONDL: are of either of you two part owenrs in any strip clubs?

Why are stripper's incomes declining? Customers catching onto their tricks? People reading RL's posts before going?

Well I guess this poster who thinks that any use of capitalization is evil compensates for RL who overuses it.

Say it takes you 30 minutes of good lap dances before you are finished. At $20/dance 3.5 min/song that will $180. At $30 it will be $240. Around here $20 dances will probably not do it for you, so we are probably talking $240 before you fun is done. These are getting to be the same rates as for paid full blown sex, so I think RL is actually onto something here. Again, I think that due to his writing style and failure to respond after the initial post RL does not as much credit for the good posts he deserves. It would be a shame to lose him here.

Speaking of unrealistic expectations, I think that some strippers expect too much for the little they offer in return. I mean $400/hr to hang out in the champagne room and talk about your stupid basket weaving degree from Mickey Mouse University, come on!

On the other hand $6 does seem a little low for lap dance. My guess is that in a freer market people would not be paying the same amount for lap dances (per time period) as they would for real sex. The prices of lap dances would go down (simple supply and demand here). My guess is that the price would probably settle around $10-12/dance. So if you just wanted lame dances and to talk/be teased for an hour the bill would run you about $150-$200. I also beleive it is only because some of the girls do offer high mileage that the other girls can charge $20-30 to those customers who have yet to find a high mileage girl and are trying others out in the meantime. I think it's for this reason, for instance, that the lower mileage girls at Rick's (for instance) are going to do better than they would at other clubs. They are benefiting from the reputation of their peers (whom they are probably contemptuous of).

Good points, FONDL. However: I think there is already a surplus of supply; and demand would increase too: at least at first. Thus I think prices would actually go up at first. However, as consumers got better educated about the culture I think they would realize that stripping is not a good value for your sexual dollar and would turn to alternative services instead. Sure there would still be a market for it but just not that much. One good thing that would happen if stripping became more socially acceptable is that there would be a smaller % of sociopathic types, and the non sociopaths would feel better about themselves and hence have less need to project their self-loathing onto their customers. Thus the overall experience would be better for customers which, again, suggests higher demand at first. HOWEVER any business that does not adequate real value to customers will ultimate not last at inflated prices. I think strip clubs are kind of like fad diets: once consumers clue in there goes the quick buck that the con artists try to make.

"who can argue over a person having a job that rakes in hundreds or perhaps thousands a week" So if car theives make thousands a week we can not argue with it?

Oh, just to clarify: besides the reasons stated in my previous post, one of the reasons I think demand would increase at first is that if it was more socially acceptable to strip then it would be more socially acceptable to "see" a stripper.

I have slightly more important projects than that to work on CG. Strippers will just have to stop spending their money on drugs, alcohol, gambling, and dead beat boyfriends until someone develops such a program, although it's not a bad idea. I had a stripper steal money from me once. Girl probably made more than I did, too. Management's attitude: Well you need to guard your money more carefully in a place like this. My attitude, ok, think I'll ever visit here again?

Yeah and such a girl can't find a decent guy her own age to date. Yeah, ok, whatev.

Actually I only got scammed once for a small amount of money once and I got even for that one. Lots of girls tried scamming though: that was the sickening part. Got stolen from once, lied to innumerable times. Yoda: I'm not sure what 50% statistic you are alluding to. If it is that 50% of the population is of below average intelligence that is true by the central limit theorem. johnny: Actually I met my fair share of scammers at DJ. Interestingly thing, though, all but one got their start at Rick's/Honeys/Sugars. Wonder what those girls talk about in the dressing room/after hours? JL: You are right about the pressure thing: I knew one girl who started off very nice there, and towards the end it was sad to see her start to spiral downward toward the end. On the other hand, I saw girls go the other way: slowly building up the self-confidence and ambition to leave that world. That was a good thing to see. One particularly curious girl at Rick's is Erin. She is completely above the sleaze (and talking to her customers for that matter), but able to make good money every night based on her exceptional looks. Think she's worked there for a couple of years too. That takes alot of strength to work in that environment and not let it change your character. (Or maybe she has BF that she feels she needs to be loyal and that's the reason: who can know?)

TGG: yeah the reg posters here just go there to watch, huh? So the strawman is your favourite rheoterical trick, eh? Neat.