Discovering Extras

In 1996, Willie Brown (former lawyer for the Mitchell Brothers) became mayor, and I began hearing rumors there were extras going on at O'Farrell Theater (MBOT). At the time, MBOT's lineup was as gorgeous as any strip club anywhere, absolutely breathtaking whenever I walked in. So the thought of getting extras, THERE, was pretty exciting. I went in, met a hot chick, went to the cabanas (a line of curtained-off phonebooths) with her, and there received one of the best HJs I'd ever gotten.

Delighted and horrified, I pulled together my buddies -- one of whom was a high level police officer who is well aware of law enforcement priorities in this area -- to debrief on the experience (to an onlooker, I imagine I must have looked like Danny McBride in the "I cum all over" scene from This Is The End), and get a ruling from our LEO buddy on how big of a risk I took. He told us "the city does not give a fuck, there's no law enforcement activity, and the DA wouldn't press charges if they did". Thusly cleared, I brought all my buddies up to what for the next 10 years, I claim is the best strip club that has ever existed on American soil. Vegas-hot and LA-hot level girls, doing extras.

I was a variety-seeking extras hound until 2007 when MBOT imploded from the lawsuit, subsequent consent decree, dancers moving to employees, etc. I switched over to OTC-focused non-extras ATFer after that, since MBOT was now useless.

1976

Foxy Lady, Providence, RI. Mid/late 1990s. Considered to be a strictly no-extras club at the time.

I was in the lapdance area, not VIP, on a super slow day. After a couple of really good dances, the dancer asked if I had a condom, and I did. She asked me to discretely give it to her. She got my dick out, got me wrapped, and climbed on. Her outfit covered the "action". My mind (among other things...) was blown.

When we were done, I paid her for the lap dances and handed over what little was left in my wallet as a tip. Frankly, I didn't come close to paying her what she deserved for the FS extras. She didn't seem to care. But she did ask me to visit her again and gave me her schedule.

I'm pretty sure it was a black swan event. She just wanted dick. It didn't hurt that I was in my mid/late 20s at the time.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure we weren't as clever as we thought. I went back to find her 2 days later and was told that she was let go... 2 days earlier.

It was an eye-opening experience, but I feel badly that she got canned.

In most of my early years, there was basically dancing and a table chair dance. One might get a breast face rub or a thigh rub and that was it.

I don't recall the first time extras were offered, but it had to be after they started VIP dance areas. Most in the beginning were a lot of talk and little action. As time progressed one could find anything in the right club. I didn't partake often until I knew the dancer. Had to much to lose in civilian life.

There was one dancer at what I consider to be a non-extras club near where I live who was sneaky and would find a way to reach in and give an HJ in the lapper room. I thought it was a mere one-off.

However, I lurked on this board for a long time before joining and saw the stories of Penthouse Detroit. You can guess where it gives from there. ("He fixes the cable?")

The club I frequented in my early SC days in the mid 90's was a low mileage club with cameras in all the dance booths. I was offered OTC a number of times before I was ever offered anything ITC.

The first extra I got ITC was at the same club and was a complete surprise. I went to the back for what I thought was going to be a normal low mileage dance with a dancer I had gotten dances from on a number of occasions. The dance started off normal but then without saying anything she pulled my shorts down enough to expose mini-me. She then started licking and sucking. Noticing the shocked look on my face, she crawled up and whispered in my ear that the camera in that booth was broken then went back to work until I finished in her mouth. After she was done she pulled my shorts back up and said, "I always wanted to do that."

I gave her an extra nice tip and have never had extras or offers of extras in that club since. I saw and got dances from that dancer many times after that, but she never offered or performed extras or ever even mentioned what had happened.

Fuck...I'm still not sure they happen as the most I've ever received was some stick shifting. I'd be happy if just once a lady would have pulled it out and stroked it.

Some times you just have to be straight up with the girls and ask. They will never give you straight answer unless you are known to them or one of the other girls that she trust. Worst that can happen is she will call you a prev. And walk away. The girls don’t want to cause a seen no more than you do. BTW if your not buying her a couple drinks and tipping when she is on stag don’t try to start convo. About the back room.

Just this summer I got a HJ after decades of strip clubbing

These days, if I'm interested, I'll generally wait until I've had dances from a girl twice before asking about extras. I've found they definitely want you to be straight forward about it. If they don't think you're a cop, they will be pretty honest in my experience.

My first ITC extra, the dancer broke the subject with me and offered FS for $300. I ended up going for a HJ for $100, but was so paranoid ITC that I couldn't keep it hard and definitely didn't finish.

My first OTC occurred with a dancer I'd been seeing ITC but she was a strict no extras ITC girl. I broached the subject with her by asking if she'd see me OTC. She said yes and it was as simple as that.

The original Solid Gold in Pompano Beach, before it moved, in 2016 or so. Prior to that, I had come to believe that there was no sex in the champagne room. I'd had a couple of OTC, plenty of ITC promises, but never any extras. How little I knew.

I've never gone along with the concept of Extras. Just the wrong way to look at it.

For one thing, lap dancing started as lap sitting. What else went along with that varied widely. But it was all front room, and it was fairly free flowing. Titty massaging was standard, but there was also a substantial amount of DFKing and FIVing, if you interacted with the girl in the right way.

amazon.com

It was after Jim and Artie faced down Dianne Feinstein by going through a felony criminal trial and so all the legal risks were gone, that the Big Brave Soldiers of the Mafia came in and introduced booths and backrooms.

In some cases the mileage could be higher. But mostly, it must meant a larger house cut, as those booths and backrooms were also toll gates. And this also meant that they could crack down on the front room mileage.

So while the costs and the house cuts went way up, it also spoiled the free flowing nature of the front room interactions. And then this in turn served to undermine whatever might happen in the backrooms.

So I think Extras is just the wrong way to look at it. You want your girl to just open up and just let it happen. You don't want her to be performing a service upon you. And you especially don't want a girl doing this, trying to make you ejaculate, when she has not opened up herself.

The way you would get her so opened up is in the front room, with money, but also just so the two of you can interact in a more open manner. Usually this will mean a front room makeout session, and that goes the easiest when you select and approach your girl, and though she gets money, you are still always treating her in a completely civilian manner. And pick the one you want carefully. Pick the one you want to be waking up with in the mornings. She will be able to feel this, and it will make things go better.

SJG

tuscl.net

i Liter Phoenix mark94
Arizona The Front Room October 16, 2019 Comments: 47 Last Comment: 22 Hours Ago by san_jose_guy Hi Liter Phoenix Breaking news: a dancer told me that owners are considering taking out the VIP booths. They need to get Liquor Control off their back and this may be the only way to do it. Discussion Comments san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 16, 2019 Taking out VIP Booths, DRAT!

Thanks for letting us know, and please do let us know what you might learn about the other clubs in that region.

1. Front room makeout sessions
2. Front room DATY
3. Back room FS
4. Walking girls out the front door, mid shift.

:) :) :)

SJG Subraman
Sitting in the back doing tequila shots with your ATF October 16, 2019 5. Front room ass-to-mouth 6. Walking girls out the side door, last third of shift 7. Back room auto-erotic asphyxiation san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 16, 2019 ^^^^^^ you are a little more kinky than me.

SJG rh48hr
Wakanda October 16, 2019 Why not just close the club? No reason to go if there is no VIP. Most guys don't even bother with floor dances anymore because they are so tame. Meat72
SJG, VH_Kicks, and RandomMember are dingbats! October 17, 2019 The liquor license is due to renew in January. san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 Strip club can always be a place to meet women.

Anyone have experience with other clubs in the Phoenix Metro?

SJG nicespice
Sowing dissent. October 17, 2019 Hmm...a girl on the internet (so I don’t 100% know for sure, but I don’t see why I should doubt her yet) said that Hiliter lets girls come and go as they please. As in, they are allowed to leave the club and return anytime they want without paying another house fee. Even if bleeding over into night shift.

If so, then it seems like OTC would be ridiculously easy if you’re considered trustworthy enough to the right dancer. So if one is on the hunt for naughty activities... 🤷🏼‍♀️ TrollWarnBot
I identify trolls to lurkers October 17, 2019 WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - Commonly referred to as SJG this forum member may have some sort of mental illness and is usually mocked or ignored. SJG has a long history of posting incendiary comments including being pro-rape. His comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate. san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 Yes nicespice, that does sound really good about this Hiliter.

SJG nicespice
Sowing dissent. October 17, 2019 ^ Yeah. I did want to eventually try out Phoenix. And despite the, erm, reputation that club has—hearing that made me want to audition there. The more a club respects dancers as independent contractors, the more I respect a club. san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 My position has always been that it is best just to let the women do it they way they want.

So that might include FRMOS's, Front Room DATY, Backroom FS, and walking with a guy out the front door mid shift.

By all accounts that is how it goes in TJ. And I have seen it go like that at clandestine US places.

Anybody got an info about other Phoenix places?

:) :) :)

SJG nicespice
Sowing dissent. October 17, 2019 There’s quite a bit of Phoenix intel out there.

tuscl.net san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 People haven't posted many accounts of their other clubs, except perhaps in reviews.

Most seem to go for just a few clubs. My interest is in some of the others which could be more anything goes.

SJG nicespice
Sowing dissent. October 17, 2019 ^ Yeah, I can imagine that it’s frustrating for you that most of the TUSCL crowd just like to go to clubs to get grinded on or maybe even airdanced on with strippers.

For whatever reason, dudes here don’t seem to like having sex with or meeting strippers outside the club. Jascoi
Supporting single moms and college age girls... (Jascoi is MisterWonderful) October 17, 2019 it’s all a crazy mess. I can say is that I am going to be at bare elegance on 30 October and then I will be down in Hong Kong Tijuana on the 31st. san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 Right you are nicespice!

That is the basic rift. Though I am not totally alone. Some others see things the way I do, but they just don't need to post about it.

Actually our local strip clubs are the most tame, no touching, really no private dances to speak of.

But the women are for real, they are exactly what they appear to be. Just need to get them outside of the club. And most of all, need to treat them in a civilian manner.

Most all of the girls in our underground circuit are highly regarded OTC providers. And as they know that such clandestine clubs are short lived, they are always lining up all the OTC regulars they can.

I found early on that if you just treat the women who dance in strip clubs as you would any other women, most of the time they really open up and most of them are extremely available.

And then as life went on and I had to make some hard decisions about my marriage, I came to see that I liked some of the OTC providers much better than I liked the women like my wife who were into strict monogamy.

So strip clubs are a great venue, for meeting women and for imbibing an aesthetic. But they are not good for regular sexual gratification. The women who dance in strip clubs, seeing them outside, that is wonderful. And most of them are bored and lonely, even though they are young sexualized hotties.

That's okay, the PL's and Chump's can keep the strip clubs in business. But I'll be the one who is doing photo sessions and MSOG TLN's with the women outside of the club.

SJG san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 Also, just like it was on TJA, we have no a bunch of guys who regularly go to TJ. A vastly superior venue. But most of these guys are still Chumps and PLs in how they related to the women.

SJG TFP
Adventures of Assjobman October 17, 2019 Jesus, Nicespice, this dude can't even detect your sarcasm. Now you got him started up on a Dennis Miller type rant.

Mark94 might wanna go ahead and cancel those email alerts right now, least his box be overloaded with 'San_Jose_Guy has posted a message in your thread' mails. TFP
Adventures of Assjobman October 17, 2019 LMAO this dude really said " The women who dance in strip clubs, seeing them outside, that is wonderful. And most of them are bored and lonely, even though they are young sexualized hotties."

Dude really talking out his ass like he knows the status of every stripper in America. Jascoi
Supporting single moms and college age girls... (Jascoi is MisterWonderful) October 17, 2019 do you mean he doesn’t ??? MackTruck
God Bless Dancers October 17, 2019 "Right you are nicespice!

That is the basic rift. Though I am not totally alone. Some others see things the way I do, but they just don't need to post about it.

Actually our local strip clubs are the most tame, no touching, really no private dances to speak of.

But the women are for real, they are exactly what they appear to be. Just need to get them outside of the club. And most of all, need to treat them in a civilian manner.

Most all of the girls in our underground circuit are highly regarded OTC providers. And as they know that such clandestine clubs are short lived, they are always lining up all the OTC regulars they can.

I found early on that if you just treat the women who dance in strip clubs as you would any other women, most of the time they really open up and most of them are extremely available.

And then as life went on and I had to make some hard decisions about my marriage, I came to see that I liked some of the OTC providers much better than I liked the women like my wife who were into strict monogamy.

So strip clubs are a great venue, for meeting women and for imbibing an aesthetic. But they are not good for regular sexual gratification. The women who dance in strip clubs, seeing them outside, that is wonderful. And most of them are bored and lonely, even though they are young sexualized hotties.

That's okay, the PL's and Chump's can keep the strip clubs in business. But I'll be the one who is doing photo sessions and MSOG TLN's with the women outside of the club.

SJG"

^^^ Amen brother txtittyfag
TEXAS BY GOD! October 17, 2019 ^^^^^^^ Nyet #MONGOLOYD! TFP
Adventures of Assjobman October 17, 2019 Misterwonderful what's funny is if you made a general statement about the bargirls in HK I'd be more inclined to believe you since you've been there so many times. Yet I bet you still wouldn't do it because although you've probably bedded a lot of women there, there's still A LOT more that you haven't. Because there's just so many girls, and so many different girls all the time.

Yet this asshat, who doesn't even go to clubs, presumes to sit up here and determine that most of the girls dancing in clubs are bored and lonely. If that ain't the epitome of talking out of your ass then I don't know what is. Just because that's your fantasy and what you wish the situation of all dancers was, doesn't mean it's the case. SirLapdancealot nicespice's ATF masseuse 🍆🦄🤗 October 17, 2019 LMAO I wonder if san_jose_creep would post to TUSCL as much if he actually went to strip clubs. But that's like wondering what he'll freezing over is actually like. 😆 san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 ^^^^^^ I guess TFP that it is hard for you to hear basic simple truth. But it is true. Most of the women who dance in strip clubs are outsiders, they marginalized. When it comes to sex appeal they are strong, but as far as social and civil standing, they are marginalized.

But I like them better than those like my ex-wife and her GFs, who are strictly committed to monogamy. Their commitment is really about money and social status.

SJG SirLapdancealot nicespice's ATF masseuse 🍆🦄🤗 October 17, 2019 ^ hell freezing over mark94
Arizona October 17, 2019 The ignore button is a blessing. Just saying. nicespice
Sowing dissent. October 17, 2019 SJG —>”But I like them better than those like my ex-wife and her GFs, who are strictly committed to monogamy.”

If your ex wife had multiple girlfriends, I don’t feel as if her commitment to monogamy was very strong. 😮 san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 Her GF's were just friends. But they all were trying to set up strict monogamy, and my wife was one they looked to for advice. But their monogamy, what it was really about was property and social status. Sex was at best only a means to an ends.

I think this is generally true, a girl who is really into sex is not going to be into strict monogamy.

The ones I call "The Beloved Latina Escorts", the core group from our underground clubs, they were pretty much ready to go with anyone anytime.

SJG TFP
Adventures of Assjobman October 17, 2019 SJG, prove anyway you can, that your statement is true. You post links to all kinds of hogshit all day every day on this forum anyway. So posting some links to whatever evidence that supports your claim that 'most strippers are bored and lonely' should be no problem for you, right? TFP
Adventures of Assjobman October 17, 2019 @Mark94 so you don't get email alerts when blocked people post in your thread? san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 Proving what goes on in the head of another person is impossible. But I can just reference my long history of interaction with the women who dance in our local clubs.

One factor to consider here is that our clubs are softer core, so the women can just sell LDKing in the back room. There is more talk which goes on, and often at little cost.

That is the most I can say. But I believe that if others talk to the women in civilian ways, then they will find that the women are very available to them.

SJG san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 Also, a couple of other things which work in my favor is that I do not drink. They girls get tired of people who are intoxicated, and so they do comment positively on my sobriety. Also they know that I am treating them like civilians.

Some girls on stripper web have posted that they are smarter than 90% of the customers. I have no doubt that this is often true. Very often I can see that a new girl is favorably impressed from just briefly talking to me.

The women who dance in our clubs are softer core.

But even with those who are known to do OTC and who seem to be hustling for that, they and I get along well and they respond well to being treated in a civilian manner.

SJG san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 One thing about our local clubs is that they are no mileage.

And then one, Sunnyvale Hip Hugger, was really set up to promote talking. And so it is low mileage girls, and there can be lots of talk for low cost.

So the manger told me that their girls were not just strippers, they were also pursuing education and other careers. I agreed and told him that they always had the smartest girls, and that mainly this seemed to be because it was more of a talking job.

But I have had good results in every strip club I have ever been to. Not always good every visit. like we have had clubs which only have one or two girls at a time. Not always good, sometimes crossed wires.

But the vast majority of visits and each and every club, usually very good.

Now the worst clip joint in San Francisco is Deja Vu Centerfolds. It is intended for tourists, leading with the DV name.

Girls can extract a lot of money. Very hard and expensive to get them to sit and talk. And harder to get any DFKing out of it. But still possible.

If you intend to be waking up with the girl in the mornings, then still worth the costs.

And we have had other high mileage girl venues, very nice to deal with the OTC providers.

So I have learned from both types of experiences, mostly though by talking. That is how one gets to know a girl and some kind of rapport is established.

But if it can be an onsite UHM and FRMOS experience that is even better, eliminates the need for car keys and wallet dating, the girl has already given up all she had to give.

SJG san_jose_guy
Thank You Founder for reopening our threads, this will make for a big improvement October 17, 2019 Most of the girls who dance in our local clubs, like the now defunct hip hugger, they show their stuff, all dolled up, and guys throw money at them. But they are still sleeping alone, still getting very little sex.

So when they find a guy who treats them like a girl next door, they are likely to respond very positively.

They will say things like, "This is my social time", meaning that they should not be seen as on duty pros.

SJG SirLapdancealot nicespice's ATF masseuse 🍆🦄🤗 October 17, 2019 All san_jose_creep's ways with stripper and AMP whores are a system of denial that he's paying them for GFE because his ego is huge. If he acts civilian with them, they want to be his real GF rather than give him GFE. If they kiss him, it's because they like him as a GF rather than it's part of GFE. These are simply forms of paid GFE that he doesn't want to admit. He even has denial as he pays them. It's not payment for the GFE. It's payment out of respect and care for her time as a real GF rather than a GFE service. His ego doesn't allow him to admit he's resorting to GFE with whores because no woman, civilian or otherwise, wants anything to do with his creepy ass in real life.

Furthermore, it's so bad (his ego and his denial) with him that he has to believe that he's figured it all out over TUSCLers that just want to go and get lapdances. He doesn't even want to believe that others actually just want to have fun with strippers and get lapdances. Even that hurts his ego because it takes him back to his personal frustration of strippers that just wanted to do that only and NOT give him GFE.

He's overly obsessed with getting GFE and pretending it's real.

Oops. Copied too much. Sorry!

SirLap came, SirLap saw, SirLap fucked shit up!

SJG said "I've never gone along with the concept of Extras."

You've also never seen a vagina.

From reading tuscl. Still have yet to get my offer approved by any ladies

Why is a HJ considered an extra.

I became a somewhat regular SCer when I moved to Dallas in 2000 - at that point SCs were not really much on my radar, I knew they existed of course and more-or-less what they were about, but I wasn't that blown-away by them in the handful of times I had visited some clubs in the 90s and felt they were pretty-much a waste of $$$.

Back in 2000 I was driving around one night a couple of weeks after having moved to Dallas and ran into the old Baby Dolls location by accident while cruising-around getting to know the city - that old location had 3 different clubs sharing the parking-lot - I was stopped at a red-light and I just happened to glance to my right and it caught my eye seeing a whole-bunch of cars in a parking-lot around midnight - I looked up at the sign and saw that it said Baby Dolls - I didn't know about Baby Dolls at the time but it wasn't hard to figure out it was likely a strip-club.

I was new in town, didn't know many people just some acquaintances at my new job most of whom were married; I was single w/ no family to support and making good $$$ in a good COL area; and had never really been much of a nightclub or bar/going-drinking type person - so I had some $$$ and some boredom - as I mentioned SCs were not really on my radar but seeing how packed the parking-lot kinda piqued my interest more-so b/c I was kinda bored being in a new city.

I didn't go into Baby Dolls that night I ran into it by accident cruising around, but made a mental note of it and went to check it out a week later and that is when I got afflicted w/ the SC-bug - Baby Dolls was a jumping which felt more jumping in the old location since it was a bit-smaller and more intimate per se; it had about 70 to 80 dancers most of which were at least a '7'; half-a-dozen stages or so all going; zero thug-factor; etc - most of my previous handful of SCs I had experienced had been mostly meh and why SCing had not gotten too-much of my interest.

The Dallas scene is pretty-much no-extras - most clubs dances are in communal-areas (on the floor, or maybe a separate but open communal area) - and VIP rooms didn't seem common (most clubs didn't seem to have them and the few that did they weren't pushed since they were insanely expensive) - so I cut-my-PL-teeth in the Dallas area clubs where extras were not really a thing nor pushed - for the most part during those years I lived and SCed in Dallas my vision of a VIP/Champagne-Room was a dancer promising you the world and not delivering much more than a basic dance, so my view of Champagne Rooms was just getting ripped-off for a good chunk of $$$.

I wasn't totally convinced extras didn't occur, but felt VIPs in most-clubs were likely rip-offs and dancers leading you on (which is probably the case in many areas) - I wasn't convinced extras were a real-thing till I joined TUSCL early in 2012 and started participating in the discussion-board and learning from others' experiences.

My first extras were in early-2012 about 3 weeks after I joined TUSCL - I was at a black Miami dive (Angels; now closed) and was getting some wall-dances from a big-booty ebony that was buck-naked just wearing her stripper-shoes - I was wearing my thin commando sweatpants w/ an elastic waistband - big-booty ebony reaches inside my elastic-waistband and pulls out little-Papi whom by this time was doing an imitation of the Incredible Hulk - I thought she had pulled-out little-Papi to play w/ it and keep me buying dances - it was a small one-room club and we were against the wall and her voluptuous-body in front of me was kinda blocking the view of everyone else (she had her back to me grinding on me) - anyway she took out little-Papi and so I was kinda distracted scanning the room to see if anyone was looking at us (it was a Monday night and club was only about 1/4-full and most people just minding their biz and doing their thing) - so I was distracted scanning the room and before I knew it big-booty-ebony had put me inside her from behind (she had her back to me) - I freaked out b/c I was bareback - but that pussy was supa-wet and felt supa-good - I told myself I was gonna enjoy it for 5-seconds and pull out but it ended up being about 5 songs of her fucking me against the wall for about 3 songs, then taking me to a corner table where she got on me RCG and fucked me for another 2-songs b/f I pushed her off me b/f I blew-my-load inside her.

So that was kinda my long-winded extras-introduction where it was mostly reading the TUSCL discussion board that opened my PL-eyes since I had never really experienced much of it b/f while SCing in Dallas (except one time at Baby Dolls circa 2007 (the new location) where I actually got a BBBJ in the upstairs area but that was about the only time I ever got anything in Dallas; don't even recall getting a HJ in the 2000s in Dallas).

I stay away from extras ITC. Theres cameras and personally the juice is not worth the squeeze. If a girl is DTF its going to be OTC. IMO its a bit pushy ITC trying to get FIV, BJ or HJ.

@Subra

What was the going-rate ($$$?) back in the late-90s/early-2000s for extras at MBOT?

In my mid 60’s I stopped at a club for a piss and a drink. I hadn’t been in a strip club in over 40 years. The nude dancer on stage when I walked in was mesmerizing. One lap dance turned into 10. I went back a few days later and didn’t see her but another dancer who I’d met in my first visit talked me into a Champagne Room for an hour. She worked the full GFE to a tee and had my dick in her mouth in the first 10 minutes. She then had me lie on my back on the leather couch with my pants around my ankles. She lay back with her ass at my waist and guided me into her as she slid down. No condom; no extra charge; no discussion. It was the most enjoyable hour I’d had in decades. The next night the original dancer was there and we did an hour’s Champagne Room. About 10 minutes in, she said” I’ll suck your dick like it’s never been sucked for $100 more.” I more than got my money’s worth. I have since been with her about 350 to 400 times both ITC and OTC and her cocksucking skills remain the best I’ve ever experienced. The second dancer has been in and out of dancing ever since and we’ve gotten together (literally) many, many times. I was in a unique position with a pension covering all home expenses and a consulting job for about 100 days per year paying me about $50k plus an expense account and my late wife having an Alzheimer’s like condition. She got the best care available and didn’t know if I was working or playing, so I didn’t have to lie and could stay out all night so long as I hired a home health aide. So I had an amazingly crazy decade and to this day am still in contact with my ATF.

Another factor to consider, adding on to my earlier post, in San Francisco the politics changed in the 90's, and with the booths and the back room, anything became possible in strip clubs.

And we had this Spectator Magazine to talk about it all.

en.wikipedia.org

But Extras was not what strip clubs had been about, not what lap dancing had been about.

And I was already fully versed in the local and SF AMP scene. There the standard is HJ. The girls are good at it too.

But I never went for that, I always went for FS, and usually it was turned into a real nice GFA (Girl Friend Audition).

So the basic session dynamics itself, 60min for a reasonable fee, left no room for improvement.

But in strip clubs the costs were much higher and the time pressure too tight. And then one hears all the stuff about Blue Balls.

Extras is just the wrong way to approach it. Not interested in having a girl do me like that.

In an AMP I would never talk about a girl making me cum. Mostly it was just, get friendly, and then kiss her. Sometimes that would completely disarm a girl, not used to that. Other times they were quite used to it. But that would let her know that this was to be FS, not HJ. Really not much more to talk about. We both would do really well.

So I always knew that the strip club extras approach was just not really the right way. Nice looking highly dolled up girls. But the way the encounter is being steered was not so good.

To make it work, need to allow for some unstructured interaction, and then a Front Room Makeout Session. Doing that , it will work out in the back room.

Now I have read here that this place Venom in Tucson has cabana rooms where it is $15 for 15 min, or $60 for the hour. Front room makeout sessions, then $60 for the hour, then the girl's money, that would be really nice.

But I still would not call it "extras", its just GFE or GFA Full Service. And nice if you have selected a girl you want to be waking up in the mornings with. Well on your way to that after even just the first session.

SJG

-->"What was the going-rate ($$$?) back in the late-90s/early-2000s for extras at MBOT?"

It went up over that time, as the place got full of hotter and hotter girls. But for much of that period, as a regular, I could score $140 HJs, $200 BJs, $250+ FS. The girls asks for non-regulars was a bit higher than that, up to $200 for HJ, $250 for BJ, FS starting at $300-$350. The first few years, there were no timers on the rooms, so basically you went however long you lasted. Eventually the club decided there was too much money being made, and added timers and pay-boxes on the rooms, so you'd have to pay the for the room on top of the previously quoted prices -- but not on the cabanas, which means that as long as you didn't mind standing up, you could still take your time. Prices rose past what I jsut described in the early 2000s

I realize all those prices are probably still way higher htan many of you guys pay today. But this was SF, everything was always insanely expensive compared to everywhere else. Plus, these were Spearmint Rhino or Sapphires Las Vegas quality girls, which made it a bit special

^^^^^ It sounds like it is not buying dances, it is FS negotiated up front.

I see it as chump stuff when it is to be dry humping and such, but not FS.

FS is nice, cause that really effects a girl. And if you have enough time, and if you can afford it, really good. Even more so if you don't have to discuss much, just proceed with a front room makeout session, as that says it all for you!

SJG

Must have been early 80's.

I was in a club in the San Fernando Valley called Bob's Classy Ladies. This was the "main" Bobs; there was a sister club that was more of a beer/biker/pool table bar a few blocks away (which is now Synn North Hills). The site for the original Bob's has changed owners and names many times in the years since and is now the location of Dames N Games. Back in the 80's it was one of the largest clubs in the Valley and the owner was somehow connected to the porn biz. He would occasionally loan out the place after hours for porn shoots... but I digress.

The VIP dancer area then was a row of high-wall cubes along one side of the building. Each cube had a black curtain that the dancer could close to block outside views. At that time, I had been a new, but semi-regular PL of an early 30's brunette dancer. As a young lad in my early 20's, I was still new to clubs and had never even imagined that extras were a thing. One day, she asked me to take her to a VIP. I did and we were having a good time. About 10 minutes into the dance, she was on her knees in front of me and looked up to tell me to unzip. I had to ask her to repeat herself because I just couldn't have heard that right!

"Pull down your zipper and take it out." She told me again.

I complied and was both excited and rather nervous. She played with it for a few more minutes then totally enveloped my cock (it's not giant or such so not really a problem for her). Maybe 30 seconds later I unloaded. Totally surprised, I just looked down at her and wondered if I had just shoot a load all over my pants or her body. I began to panic - I couldn't see where the "results" had landed! Then she just smiled and swallowed. Just amazing.

Tipped her my last $40 and she said thanks.

That started what became at least 12 years of extras at that club, through two name changes and one ownership change. But those days at that location are long gone.

1. Arnies Idle Hour in Harvey,IL. The dancers used to be surprised if you were just looking for a regular lap dance. Former mayor of Harvey was getting paid off by the club to look the other way. It is no longer the extras club that it once was (new ownership).

If you engage with the girls on stage, eventually you will want to get intimate with them, no?

For me, the first real engagement, verbal, was just cause I wanted to see. By the time a guy is in jr high school he learns that the women in Playboy and who are held up as sex symbols in the movies or in the fashion industry, they are out of his social reach.

But does that also apply to the women who dance in Go Go Bars, like our own Brass Rail? Only one way of finding out.

I do not recommend men with an SO have anything to do with strip clubs.

SJG

House Foreign Affairs Committee, Democrats and Republicans saying the same things. Can't tell them apart. They agree with each other, and I agree with them. And everyone agrees that Trump really screwed up.

youtube.com

MBOT for me. They had those timers Subra described. I was getting hustled with a little bj here and there, finally I pulled out $140 in 20s and said, whatever doesn’t go into the timer is your tip. She got straight to business and sucked that dick like her next meal depended on it. Tip was $120. Lol.

I discovered extras in regular clubs (MBOT it’s fully legal and grandfathered by law) by meandering into afternoon shift at a local. One day I was horny af and I used to think only pervs went to day shift. Thirty minutes later it was like the universe explained itself to me and I had cracked the secret code.

^^^^ That is still buying ejaculation services and treating the girl like a vending machine.

SJG

^^^. when you pop a load you don’t think about gun barrel communism, life is good.

The endorphin rush, what opiates mimic?

And not thinking about something makes it better?

SJG

I discovered extras when the restroom attendant gave me a paper towel after finishing me off with his hand. Good times.

^not thinking about wanting to shoot people because they have different beliefs is a good thing, you should go to a club and have a gal rub you out real good

Or I can rub you out real good too. 😍

Revolutions usually do require large scale lethal violence. Marx and Engels made this clear, but it was already clear.

If our electorate smartens up, thinks harder, then Gun Barrel Communism will never materialize. We will be like the countries of Western Europe, expecially Scandinavia.

SJG

Most of my relatively few extras experiences have come as a surprise and caused a lot of anxiety afterwards, either, worst case, STD scare, or best case, how to avoid having to explain mess to wife. I've had many opportunities thrust upon me that I've rejected, ones that I could have gotten without paying extra if I was of the mind to do so. Just last night my dancer du jour clearly wanted me to finish -- was almost sorry to disappoint her. Not sure what causes that, whether she wants me to get a private room on subsequent visits or she just wants to feel validated.

^^^^ People should be faithful to spouses and other SO's. Your concerns are completely legitimate.

I only went out of such envelop myself when I was sure the marriage could not be made to work.

These are serious life changing issues, for all parties.

SJG

You're probably right SJG for many people, but I think that strip clubs have actually saved my marriage. About 25 years ago I was on the road to having an affair, but I discovered strip clubs and it satisfied my need for variety in my intimate life.

On my birthday in 2011, my cousin and I went to what was then Coco's (it's now called The Edge, or it will be when it reopens). This incredible-looking woman propositioned my cousin and me. I thought about it somewhat, but not enough to even go through the necessary step of making sure this wasn't a train situation.

*If you've ever listened to Patrice O'Neal, you know why I said train and not threesome.

I started going to another club and that was when I figured out that extras were regularly available. Reading reviews here just cemented it.

My buddies from work would frequent some downriver Detroit strip clubs in the late 80s. We never had any money, so we mostly went for the eye candy, some beers and laughs. A couple of years later, I found myself commuting through downriver frequently, and had time to kill one time and went to Henry VIII South. Little did I know at the time that Henry’s would turn into one of the biggest strip club whorehouses of all time!

Anyway, I was a real newbie as it came to extras. But as I occasionally stopped by Henry’s, I got to know a dirty blonde who gave me really good dances — and actually let me touch her titties! I don’t think Henry’s had a lap dance area — you kind of did on the booths by the back wall. I came in one afternoon, and there was hardly anyone there. The dirty blond gave me some dances, pulled my cock out, and gave me a HJ, which I thought was the most risqué act of all times! I would visit her again, but work took me to other parts of town and my Henry days — and extras — were done for about 15 years.

I started going to some of the Michigan Ave bars that many of you in Detroit know about. Again, I was unaware of widespread extras, and it was probably 5 years before I discovered TUSCL. I found a lady I Iiked, and went to the skanky back room. She proceeded to get naked, and pulled my cock out and grinded on me, no FS. As I was enjoying what I thought was the wildest club moment in my life, a second dancer walked by our area and says “oh my” when she sees my state of arousal, and then rubs my balls until I blow all over the other dancer. I was hooked.

Five years later, I discovered TUSCL, and thought, fuck, this shit has been going on everywhere (in metro Detroit)! With this information, I started my mongering tour of all the clubs that continue to this day.

using a fake ID to get into trumps in Detroit when I was 16

What are these "extras" whereof you speak?

@jack: they are the things that are "standards" at your FKKs! 😉

@Papi: "pulls out little-Papi whom by this time was doing an imitation of the Incredible Hulk."

You mean she turned it green??? Did it recover? 🤢😱🤕

I learned what extras were after I moved to Las Vegas and learned how little I got compared to what I was getting in California. I was getting extras for about 5 years total without knowing what they were.

In the mid 1990s - at a club in Orange NJ. I went in with some friends. There was a dancer with a snake tattoo that was probably poorly done and cliche - but I thought she was hot as fuck.

She asked if I wanted a private dance. I agreed.

She took me to the back of the club - down a dark rickety old wooden staircase. We passed a room with filthy red velvet sofas - that were torn and had stuffing coming out of them.

We got to the basement - it was dark and dank. Then she took me to a room near an old bar - with old taps and ancient booze. I sat in a chair with a wobbly leg - and there was a mirror to one side.

She took her top and bottom off - and pulled my dick out of my jeans. She sucked and jerked me after grinding on me. It was a nice release. I bought 2 dances from her - and tipped her - for a total of about $40.

I think the dancer was confused because I didn't pull her on me and fuck her.

That was my first private dance - and my first extra. Sadly, I started with extras, and discovered they aren't offered everywhere.

I'm a skeptical sort. In 1971 I was walking past the Condor Club in San Francisco with a buddy when a barker outside said, 'Hey, you guys wanna get laid?" (This was the place where Carol Doda, the first topless dancer in the U.S., worked.) Not sure if extras were a thing back then in SF -- and I wasn't even old enough to get in -- but I was skeptical, even as a teen.

I did a little clubbing in the mid-1970s (when I finally was old enough), but was oblivious to any opportunities to even touch a stripper or have one sit on my lap. As far as I could ascertain, the only thing available back then was candy for the eyes, at least in the midwest where I was living at the time.

Fast forward to 1999, when I returned to strip clubbing (in earnest), and I was still not aware of extras. I was in an upscale strip club (no longer in existence) somewhere between Miami and Fort Lauderdale on Highway 1. It was a weeknight, early evening, and the club was very slow -- a few girls and maybe two other customers. One of the girls and I were getting along great, just shooting the shit. Can't remember if I had gotten any dances from her or not. She suggested we adjourn to a more private space and named a price (can't remember exactly what is was) that was more than I had on me -- and more than I had ever paid in a club. She promised that we'd have a really good time, and though I'm a skeptic, I felt like she really meant it. I actually left the club to find an ATM and came back.

It was that night I learned that some clubs had private rooms. In short order, she was fully nude and pretty soon she had my pants off. We were in there for probably 45 minutes or more, during which time hands were everywhere. She finished me off between her gorgeous boobs. Until that moment, I did not know that such a thing was possible in a club. Of course, now I laugh at how tame that really was, as, since then, I have obviously done much, much more in multiple clubs all over North America.

Incidentally, 1999 is when I discovered Follies. Back then they had a couple of VIP rooms (near the pool table, now long gone), but I don't think Follies then was the extras palace that it is now. I remember once in the VIP, the tip of my johnson somehow just happened to poke up above the waistband of my pants and when the dancer discovered that, she totally freaked out and ran out of the VIP room. My reaction? I thought she was going to sic a bouncer on me, so I left the VIP and got out the of the club as fast as I could. Oh my, how things have changed!

About 15 years ago I was getting some back room dances. At the end of a three song set, the girl asked if I wanted to keep going. I declined by saying “I’ve had about as much fun as I can have with my pants on”. Then she unzipped me and we kept going. Prior to that I had assumed that anything in every club was either blue balls or LDK.

That's some amazing discovery stories guys. Who knew? Till they joined tuscl.

@loper, is that making your marriage work? Good luck whatever you do.

I like the mileage to be able to be as high as possible,

1. Front Room
2. Back Room
3. Walking your girl out the front door with you mid-shift. Others will just have to cover for her, cause she will be kept busy.

But I still think 'extras' is just the wrong way to look at the whole thing. Mostly it means a girl who has not emotionally opened up to you making you ejaculate. I just think that is the wrong way to go about it.

SJG

tuscl.net

Topic comes up every now and then. (For clarification, I don't consider LDK "extras")

Like EastCoaster, my discover was at Follies in 2012 or 2013 about the same time I discovered TUSCL. I'd been clubbing since the early 80's but light, one way contact was all I'd experienced at clubs like Crazy Horse Saloon or Pink Pony South.

On my second visit to Follies I took a really cute dancer to VIP. I had no expectations and none and nothing was negotiated. I undid the top button on my slacks to get comfortable about 10 minutes into the VIP. Without a word the girl then proceeded to pull down the top of my pant and underwear and go down on me. I was extremely nervous that we were going to get caught. Sure enough at the moment of truth, and she took me the whole way, the bouncer pokes his head in. I couldn't stop and she didn't miss a beat. Afterwards she made sure I was good and clean before tucking me back in and asked if someone had stuck their head in and which one it was.

Fun times...

I feel that the extras idea always was just wrong headed. You don't really want your girl to be preforming some kind of a service upon you. You want her just to open up and let it happen, let you lead it. That is usually how it works between women and men.

And then, lap dancing used to mean lap sitting.

At MBOT then they had a nude strip show, and there was no stage sitting or not stage tipping. But people were waiving money at the girls trying to get them to come out and visit.

So finally Jim and Artie decided to allow it, lap sitting, so lap dancing was born.

What went along with it varied widely, but it could get extremely friendly. But always all front room. No booths or back rooms.

Now Jim had been highly influenced by something he saw on a trip to Amsterdam. It was an audience participation cabaret show, based on DATY. There would be one woman. A line of male customers would form. They would pay a small fee. Then they would line up and be handed a moistened disposable towelette. The girl would be on a table. They would one by one wipe the girl off, the kneel down and give her some licks.

Now of course this would raise eyebrows. And it had a huge effect on Jim Mitchell.

So he came back to SF and they decided to make MBOT the Amsterdam of the Western Hemisphere.

They made a DATY facility, Ultra Room or such. A big room with girls on the inside and customers around at little windows. There was a place under the glass to send the money.

So at first they started softer core, leaving glass in the windows. So custies got a nice close up pussy view.

Then after the cops busted them, they went harder core, removing the glass that day. So there was lots of pussy licking now.

So with lap dancing it was really friendly and all front room.

So of course they got busted. A big part of the argument that this was legal was that it was not really for sexual gratification, it was more for shock value and for sexual education.

They beat the wrap.

So after that the Mafia came in and set up booths and back rooms. In principle anything was possible in those private spaces. But the front room intimacies somewhere got locked out.

Yes, mileage could be higher, but the emotional intimacy was gone, as that has to be built in the front room, unstructured fraternizing.

So I still say that the Extras Idea is just plain wrong headed.

amazon.com

SJG

tuscl.net

I believed nothing extra happens in the VIP room, when about a year ago I was at a topless club where a dancer offered to blow me in the VIP room, I passed because I thought it was just talk.

A few months later I visit a nude club where a dancer promised a great time in the VIP room, I decided to take her for a lap dance where she kept asking to take her to the VIP and when she felt I was interested, she ellaborated about FS.

I was sold, so I took her to the VIP room but when she informed me of her tip request for FS, when I sadly told her I did not have enough she said she would just dance and tip her whatever I wanted.

In the VIP room, she undressed, made me undress, grinded on junior, put a cover on, and let me go to work.

Of coarse nothing extra happens in the VIP room.

i never even thought about extras at first. this was late 2011 after separating from my ex. extras were introduced to me a little bit at a time. my memory is flooded with nice sexy sessions... first full sex was with a girl that was grinding cg on me... i had on my silky sport shorts... She delightfully grabbed my dick and put tiny in no condom. This was maybe two years after I started strip clubbing in a big way... my experience with extras took a ever so seemingly long time (i thought.)

I've told the story here before, but it was a a strip club cum brothel in Fort Erie, Canada in 1978, on my 17th birthday.

If PL's don't want to keep getting their wallets sucked dry, then they just have to smarten up and keep the wallet in the pocket.

Some of the women who dance in strip clubs are really very good. They just try to sell dances because most of the time they are dealing with PL's.

But some of them have got a racket going and they know it. When you find this, keep the wallet pocketed.

SJG

Before I went. I was hearing about extras from my bother and his friends before I turned sixteen. I was too chicken to make a move my first couple of visits. The a woman in her thirties so it was a true MILF experience introduced me to the world of extras. Four decades ago. She must be close to eighty if she is still alive.

^ was that in Jersey?

heaving, my point is that you don't play, you decline.

If you find a club that is all "wanna dance", you go some place else.

It's really pretty basic, you don't go with the 'extras' paragdim, you hold the line at front room friendliness.

Now like I've said though, best if you pick the girl and approach her yourself, and best if you display front room generosity right off.

But still what it comes down to is either the girl lets you lead it, or you politely pull back and sheathe the wallet.

You don't debate with her, you don't argue, but you don't accept her verbal rationalizations either. You are polite, but you still pull back.

Really quite simple. Just having both an X and Y chromosome does not mean that one has to be a chump.

SJG

Wait, what are extras? Isn't stripping just walking around naked for money? I thought it was lap dances.

^^^^^^^^ trying to soften my response, rather than saying what I really think.

SJG

The extra's paradigm is a situation where loose enforcement of laws which are unpopular, could probably yield a really nice club experience, but instead we have seen the rise of these modernized clip joints.

SJG

I would go along with that, best to be generous, and it is a show of respect.

But in a clip joint, all they are trying to do is make you buy dances, and that way the girl leads it.

Not good.

SJG

Papi, yes it was. The place closed about 38 years ago if my old man memory is right.

Wait, so these girls are doing...gasp "extra" sexual things for money?! No way! But... But... That's illegal! Gasp

Also, fuck you SJG. Literally nobody cares about your responses. Nobody.

^^^^^^ Waffle, you are way behind the curve. Go fuck yourself!

SJG

😂😂😂😂

Awww look at poor, sad, and pathetic SJG. Naive as fuck to my sarcasm above and obviously butt hurt and offended enough to "ignore" me because I had the audacity to private message him demanding that he never message me again. When you "ignore" people, you don't go creeping on their forum messages, you fucking weirdo.

I think SJG needs one of his stupid ass front room make out sessions to console his hurt and bruised ego. Poor baby. 😂😂😂😂

I literally will go fuck myself. I enjoy fucking myself. At least I can do it better for myself than any "man" has. And you know what? I'll even record that shit and sell it on my MFC site. Thanks, SJG! 😘❤️

I don't know what your problem is Waffle, I don't know what is the matter with you that you want to start a fight with someone online for no reason. Is this all you have to do with your time?

It is not going to work on me, 'cause I will not put up with you for one second, You Poor Worthless Shit Face!!

SJG

@Waffle as someone truly ignored by san_jose_creep I'm sorry but I can't officially let you in that exclusive club yet. Although his profile clearly says you're on his ignore list, he still clearly responds to you, therefore you are not truly ignored. You've been demoted to 'pledge' status until san_jose_creep truly ignores you. Sorry. 😝

Waffle just knows the secret of how to get past SJG's privacy wall

WCG

^^^^^ That is a very funny idea.

BUt in fact, I doubt that Waffle even knows how to tie her own shoes, starting a fight online, and for absolutely no reason.

SJG

Smashing Waffles Like Button!

Smashing PaulDrake's Rubber Chicken Button!

SJG

Waffle I would like to watch you fuck yourself. I have been known to pay for such shows.

It may be a coincidence but the site improved when i put sjg on ignore. I hope he has me on ignore

@Sir well, fuck. You got my hopes up over nothing.

My thoughts and prayers go out to SJG's hurt wittle ego. Let's all day a prayer for him. I'll even pray with my rosary. 🙏

Perhaps he should think again when he incessantly messages people out of the blue about really dumb shit. I think I got maybe two or three messages from him out of the blue recently, completely unprovoked and no interaction given to him on the forums to warrant such messages. According to a thread and another discussion forum on here, I'm not the only one he does that to. But I did message him back telling him to never message me again.

And now, he's just being a harassing piece of shit. 🤷 Oh well.

@Waffle fuck I'm so sorry. 🧐 I swear he has you listed as ignored in his profile.

But don't give up hope. LMAO you're pretty close. You just have to keep at him a bit more. Keep up the good posts! 👍😁👍

Waffle, you got the same thing that dozens of people got, one message. And it was just my post on this thread, sent to a bunch of people who had posted interesting stuff on this board, and who had given thoughtful responses.

So stop lying. And peel that shit face of yours up off from the asphalt.

You start a fight with me, as you did on this thread and for no reason, you do not gain anything.

If you want to call my responding to you "harassment", no it is you who are harassing. Every unkind post has come from you first.

And Mister K., is someone holding a gun to your head, forcing you to read my posts, or do you just have shit for brains, which is it?

SJG

@k let me recharge my Hitachi.

^^^^^ Waffle, you do that. But understand, I don't care what you do, I do not want to know what you do.

But when you try to fuck with me, my patience with you will be ZERO!

SJG

@Paul only if you smash it fast, hard, and rough. 🙂

I know what my dreams will be tonight

@san_jose_creep you clearly took the time, unsolicited and before she posted, to list her on your ignore list...

tuscl.net

..."My New Ignore List:

SirLapdancealot, txtittyfag, SJGsAMPGirlfriend, SanJoseWoman, Waffle"

And Founder wonders why more dancers don’t stick around. Sorry you had to put up with that Waffle, but it was kind of fun to read. I had to take SJG temporarily off ignore so I could see what it was about. Don’t let him run you off. Your insights here are appreciated.

@Waffle - You're not the only female he sends weird random messages to.

As for the original topic, not counting overseas establishments which have always been more brothel than strip club, about 1997, in the flying saucer, 2001 Odyssey, Tampa. Next, several years later, Shark Lounge, Daytona. Things have picked up quite a bit since then.

I'm not going to let a little bed bug like him run me off. But it is clearly harassment at this point as I have asked in a private message and now put it out there publicly that I don't want to communicate with him.

Yet, he is trying to provoke response from me. Ignore means ignore. I am clearly done talking to him on this thread.

Waffle, hit the ignore button next to his name and you will never see his posts again. Unless you choose to

He is on ignore.

Also, he started this dumb shit when he unnecessarily shoved his unsolicited opinion in my face in my private messages (Accidentally posted that in the Verified forum.)

If every one would lobby @founder to retrieve the two way block/ignore and all of this becomes history, this proves that founder doesn't care about freedom of speech as much as he likes drama.

Waffle said "Also, fuck you SJG. Literally nobody cares about your responses. Nobody."

Nailed it.

Fun fact... When SJG had me on "ignore", he would occasionally and obliquely reply or riff off of posts I made. So, he either doesn't put anyone on ignore, or he logs out to view the content posted by those on ignore. Either way, he's too narcissistic to truly ignore stuff posted about him.

Ultimately, if you want to be "ignored" by SJG, then just challenge his narrowly scripted (and creepy as fuck) worldview. He's always looking for an excuse to pretend he's not seeing content posted by those who accurately think he's delusional.

And did I mention creepy as fuck?

“Fun fact... When SJG had me on "ignore", he would occasionally and obliquely reply or riff off of posts I made. So, he either doesn't put anyone on ignore, or he logs out to view the content posted by those on ignore. Either way, he's too narcissistic to truly ignore stuff posted about him.”

Another fun fact: TUSCL’s other completely self absorbed narcissist the Douchebag aka Ricky Boy Dugan, did the same thing when he allegedly had me on ignore. He even had another user (or perhaps another of his aliases) deliver messages for him. He doesn’t even pretend to have me on ignore anymore.

Evil ape, criticizing the San Jose Ape is fine because he is an insano. Occasionally, I feel sorry for him because he shows glimmers of normalcy (presumably when he takes his meds) but, ultimately, he is what he is: an insano ape.

But rickdugan is the smartest hairless ape on the planet. He’s may not be as good of a martial artist as rickthechinaman, but he is slightly smarter. If you are criticizing him - or any other rick - you obviously aren’t keeping up with the rick brilliance.

Don’t believe me? I have one word for you. A word that rhymes with schmildebeest. ROAR!!!

Waffle, I am not going to bother reading the rest of this thread.

If you are talking about me, using my name or just doing it in directly, I am going to respond.

You do not have any carte blanche to talk shit about me. I have done nothing wrong, rude, or otherwise improper, yet you still want to try and escalate a fight.

Well with me that will not work.

Now you know there is one imbecile, SLD, really just decomposing bio-mass, that I keep on ignore and do not respond to.

If you seem to be talking about me, with him, then I will look at his post and find out what is going on. He is an imbecile, but if you are talking about me with him, then you are encouraging him.

And the same goes for the rest of these idiots.

I would not let you go on like this f2f, no one would.

I would not let you go on like this f2f even in your strip club.

SJG

LMFAO san_jose_creep still reads posts by people he puts on ignore. A bonafide IMBECILE.

(Yeah, that's you, san_jose_creep...reading my post when you declare I'm ignored by you. Why are you reading this right now but pretending to ignore me? ROFLMAO. 😂😂😂)

SJG gets hard when he sees his name in any discussion. He is a true narcissist, that any mention creates a stiffness in his bicycle shorts.

Reading posts of folks he has on ignore is bizarre - but expected for him.

His mention of physical violence if certain comments were made f2f is also expected. He is a sad and delusional creep.

Cashman doesn't do anything if people are trash talking about him f2f, he just hides.

And I only read posts from people I have on ignore is it looks like someone else is talking about me with them, and then that I might need to do something.

And Cashman is one of TUSCL's sad delusional creeps, but not I.

SJG

@Waffle since it's clear now that san_jose_creep never really ignores anybody (because a narcissist is hypersensitive of anything bad said about him) I guess we are both in the same boat. As such, welcome back to the club as an official member! I've removed your 'pledge' status. You are now part of the san_jose_creep "pretends to ignore" club! 🤣🤣🤣

Now all I need to do is show you the handshake... I'm waiting for a f2f meeting for that. 🤗💃

Its offensive he has his girlfriend on ignore. SJGsAMPGirlfriend is an amusing troll!

I am sad and creepy - but I'm not delusional...

Cashman, you are delusional if you believe for even a second that anyone would put up with you f2f.

SJG

Now I'm hurt. Hearing that SJG couldn't put up with me is incredibly painful!

What's next? A dancer tells me she faked it? Oh the horror!

^^^^^^^ My point is that posting on this forum you are just making a jackass of yourself.

SJG

Pot, meet the kettle...

Cashman, you belong in the underground circle jerk VIP Room. Get yourself out there, open that hatch and go down the ladder. Stay there, do not come out.

SJG

California is on fire. Love it. Love watching the home of progressives fucking burn.

^^ Stay classy Fredo.

Tonight you can jack off while people lose their homes, tomorrow you can fantasize about being a fourth-rate lawyer that bills poor people for time you spend fucking around on the internet.

The difference between me and you: I’m an asshole; you are 100% a dick. Fortunately, two things about you are true. First, your lawyer job is just pretend so you aren’t actually ripping off poor people. Second, you are damn funny. Like a clown. ROAR!

Skibum, what ever vegetation burns up, that's what converts C02 back into O2. Not good!

RicktheLion, +10, very well put!

SJG

The fact is that your a cunt lil ricky. Thats all you are; a cunt. Now shoe and go make fries or whatever you do. I pity you SJG.

Of course its shoo retard.

skibum, you sound like you are suicidal. If I ever met anyone who talks like you f2f, that is how I would interpret them.

SJG

"Waffle, I am not going to bother reading the rest of this thread."

Because it might cause a scintilla of introspection.

"If you are talking about me, using my name or just doing it in directly, I am going to respond."

How? You've put her on ignore?

"If you seem to be talking about me, with him, then I will look at his post and find out what is going on. He is an imbecile, but if you are talking about me with him, then you are encouraging him."

Your syntax is so bad it's weaponizable. But setting that aside... don't you have both of them on ignore?

"I would not let you go on like this f2f, no one would.

I would not let you go on like this f2f even in your strip club."

Meaning what, specifically? And I do mean specifically, because it sounds like you're threatening Waffle with violence.

And I know that you're an impotent lunatic in San Jose with no way to reach her physically to carry out your threat. But it's still shitty and abhorrent.

And it helps proves a point that I recently made in the Verified Room.

Well if you have made your point in the Verified Room, you must not have wanted me to read it.

SJG

"I would not let you go on like this f2f, no one would.

I would not let you go on like this f2f even in your strip club." 

Meaning what, specifically? And I do mean specifically, because it sounds like you're threatening Waffle with violence.

And stop pretending that you don't read every single word.

Meaning, in this thread.

People do not mess with me f2f, mostly because they can quickly glean that I don't play.

SJG

Meaning what, specifically? Specifically.

Via what specific action on your part would you cause Waffle to not talk to you this way face-to-face?

Show a bit of spine for once.

Do you see people out on the street shit talking people?

In retail businesses?

In strip clubs?

Anywhere?

Where?

Its just the keyboard cowards who have so little respect for the Forums they post in.

SJG

No, really. Via what specific action on your part would you cause Waffle to not talk to you this way face-to-face?

Either answer the question or admit that you lack the courage to answer.

Well, I don't go looking for trouble. But when it comes, I do respond.

So hopefully it will never be necessary to find out.

SJG

No, I understand now. You're absolutely gutless.

Except when you're threatening women with violence from a keyboard in the library kiosk.

Is that child still carrying on? He threatened me? I have no idea what happened because, unlike him, I truly do have him on ignore.

I would indeed talk to him like this face to face. I believe in standing up for myself.

SJG is my new #1 fan and stalker. Yay. 🙂

And watch, he replies to this thinking I give a fuck. 🙄

"I am not going to bother reading the rest of this thread."

^ @san_jose_creep LMFAO is this like you saying that you have someone on ignore but read their posts anyway?

Looks to me like you never stopped reading this thread. Imbecile! 🤭

Waffle, I told you that I would monitor to see if you are talking about me, or if you are doing it with SLD.

I don't appreciate finding negative stuff written by you. You are on ignore so that you cannot send it to my PM box.

You have initiated a fight on this thread, and for no reason.

So I respond to you again, you would not get to do anything like this f2f, not even in your strip club.

SJG

"Waffle, I told you that I would monitor to see if you are talking about me, or if you are doing it with SLD.

I don't appreciate finding negative stuff written by you. You are on ignore so that you cannot send it to my PM box.

You have initiated a fight on this thread, and for no reason.

So I respond to you again, you would not get to do anything like this f2f, not even in your strip club.

SJG"

@Waffle FYI. 😂🤣

LMAO clearly san_jose_creep has two versions of TUSCL running. On one he's logged in as san_jose_creep and on the other he's logged out so he can read the posts of those he's supposedly ignoring. LMFAO he puts in MORE effort to pretend ignore than he would by not bothering.

That's batshit crazy. 😂🤣🤪

As an independent contractor, I would be allowed to talk to anybody in my club as I see fit. If the club were to try to regulate how I speak to people, then they would be dealing with a lawsuit. I am my own business and the club cannot tell me how to run my business. So yes, I would still speak to you like that face to face. it's also why it's hilarious when I read reviews about guys bitching to managers about girls they did things with in VIP. We are independent contractors and we basically do what we want. 🤷

@Waffle I think what he's getting at is that f2f he would be so intimidating that nobody would dare talk to him like we do on the boards and in this thread. That's the supposed threat that Ishmael has been wanting him to clarify. But he doesn't because it's just another one of his paper tigers. Remember it's him that is living his fantasies on TUSCL because he doesn't actually go to strip clubs to live a fantasy there. So on TUSCL he can be an intimidating big shot and pretend that nobody would dare mess with him and insult him f2f.

Intimidating my ass. He's a little bitch trying to overcompensate for things lacking in his real life.

I think SJG is totally aroused reading these posts. He is the object of our comments for the past few hours. Regardless of the content of our comments, it’s all about him.

To be honest, if we saw him f2f, most would not even notice him. I am guessing he is not worth acknowledging - and that is part of his reason for seeking attention on this site. He’s simply a sad, forgettable, little man.

you think he gets aroused reading these comments and you keep posting? You are intentionally arousing him?

"He’s simply a sad, forgettable, little man." Is he really forgettable? No one takes the opportunity to not mention him.

@Waffle as far as overcompensating I'm fairly certain that he suffers from ED. It's because he's created threads about it specifically and also how to pleasure a woman with just fingers and tongue. Also when he was posting about actually being with AMP whores he would never get a HJ/happy ending and instead he was all about DATY and FIV. And again it goes back to his guilt over losing his marriage and fortunes from excessive mongering with, ironically, strippers and AMP whores.

So, he can't get it up, he can't go to a strip club, he can't see an AMP whore, and he can't get with any woman. But, to your point, he can use TUSCL to overcompensate for all of it.

@K I don't think he's forgettable at all. To me his story is a cautionary tale to all married PLs. In some small way, along with all of TUSCL, I think he's made me rethink and even adjust how I handle going to strip clubs and being married.

Sirlapdancealot

I was quoting Cashman. it is obvious he isn't forgettable. He is discussed at length. the discussion of him derails threads. yes, I know, I am part of that in this thread.

I know little of his back story. years ago he was so annoying and often off topic so I blocked him. It amazes me that even blocked, he manages to intrude.

@K yeah I was just adding to your point to Cashman. He is a huge derailment of TUSCL in general. A negative influence on it overall for sure because it's his personal therapy rather than a place to exchange real life strip club information and stories.

But since founder allows him to be here and because he really can't be avoided, I just roll with him and his posts just like any other annoying troll in here. Like it or not, he comes with all TUSCL memberships.

And when I'm in the mood to avoid him I personally just go post in the Verified or VIP rooms.

Well that was quite entertaining. I guess the library closed up shop so he's not able to respond anymore. Gotta wait till sometime between 12-2pm for that.

It's hilarious seeing him suggest that f2f you wouldn't say certain things to him. But then when you offer to meet him face to face he starts up about privacy walls. Make up your mind SJG. Either you are the badass who would kick everyone's ass face to face, or you're the guy who only talks big online behind a keyboard and scared to meet anyone face to face. Being both of those persons at once is contradictory.

Cashman said "I think SJG is totally aroused reading these posts."

That must be awkward for the guy sitting in the next kiosk...

SirLDAlot and K - I was referring to a f2f encounter with SJG. That is where I believe he would be easily ignored and almost invisible. I think that is why he continues to threaten violent actions when encountering fellow members f2f.

He is definitely memorable here, due to his constant detailing of discussions.

Ishmael - I have no doubt he’s sitting in a kiosk reading this with his pants around his ankles...

Circa 2000 in Bridgeport CT. It was all Latinas giving FS in thinly veiled brothels, but I was still relatively young, so for me it was like discovering fire. It was also cheap.

First time with an all-American gal was in 2001 in SE FL. I don't remember the club now, but I do remember the fact that she was gorgeous and I spent a bloody fortune. Live and learn. But she was sucked my dick like it was good to the last drop, I'll give her that.

My first OTC came a couple of years later in Queens NYC. I overpaid for that as well and it was a so-so experience, but it was the start of my education in how to coax girls out of a club, especially mid-shift.

Though truth be told, all of my club activities were more sporadic back then. I was in my early 30s and, in my stints between live-in SOs, I was having way too much fund tagging civilian tail. But I'm much older now, so if my wife ever left me, I doubt that I'd be on the hunt for a replacement or even casual civilian tail my own age.

Years ago when (A) indoor prostitution was legal in Rhode Island, and (B) my buddies were getting married, I went to several bachelor parties in Providence. Almost every single one of these bachelor parties included a few guys who came from out of state, or just didn't know anything about strip clubs (let alone Providence strip clubs).

Anyway, it was always entertaining to see these guys go into VIP with a dancer, and then emerge 15 or so minutes later with a look of slack-jawed amazement on their faces. Also, they fully expected to be tackled by a SWAT team the moment they left the club.

Anyway, now I'm at an age where all of those guys are getting divorced.

I just remembered an incident from one of those bachelor parties. We were at the Cadillac Lounge. A buddy went into a private room with a dancer. I assume that there was a conversation where she made him aware of all that she offered, but he lacked the money to pay for. Because they emerged mere minutes later and went straight to the ATM.

This guy was a good friend, but had a profound lack of common sense and impulse control. So, I approached them at the ATM. I looked at the dancer and said "I'm really not trying to get in the way of your job." And then I looked at my buddy and said, "You need to make good decisions."

To which the dancer immediately replied "That gets in the way of my job!"

I loled.

Waffle, You are on ignore, so that you can't PM me, but you are most definitely on my radar. You don't seem to be able to post without talking about me.

4 times in August 2018, you PMed me. And when you talked about legal changes which were on the table in Detroit, I replied and you replied back.

You seemed like a reasonable person.

But now you have turned belligerent. I don't appreciate finding belligerent PM's. So you are on ignore.

But this does not mean that you have carte blanch to talk trash about me. I would not let you do that f2f, not even in your strip club.

You entered this thread, trash talking about me.

So I don't know what your problem is, chemical intoxication? Head full of feces?

Well it doesn't matter. If you tried trash talking about me f2f, you would not get away with it.

Now there is also this matter of SirLD. He is completely worthless. To me he is nothing more than decomposing biomass. I am not going to read his stuff unless it looks like you are encouraging him by talking about me. He is an irredeemable troll, but you are also a troll and you are encouraging him.

This is an open board, anyone can post anything. But this does not mean that you can trash talk about me.

And again, if you tried this f2f, you would not get away with it, not even in your strip club.

SJG

And, extras is just not a very bright way of looking at what goes on in strip clubs.

SJG

@Waffle

Reading this I can't help but wonder if there wasn't a better way to handle this situation? As you mentioned, SJG randomly PMs a lot of different people. SJG randomly PMs me with things all the time. Given that this is a public forum I don't think someone is out of line or harassing simply for sending somebody a message. I've had random people on several forums before send me private messages without having previously talked on the forum and I've never thought of it as strange or rude. SJG may have simply not understood how you were perceiving his messages. If his messages really were such a bother though then I'd think it more practical to just put him on ignore.

Anyway that's just my two cents after reading all this. I think SJG genuinely means well, he's just a little bit awkward :)

Waffle PMed me 4 times in Aug 2018, talking about who runs all the socks.

And she replied to me on her thread about legal matters in Detroit.

Really, we should just all get along. And then there is ignore for when there really is a problem.

If Waffle is trash talking about me on threads, then that encourages the worst of the worst of trolls to do the same.

There are different sorts of people with different views on this forum.

SJG

"This is an open board, anyone can post anything. But this does not mean that you can trash talk about me.

And again, if you tried this f2f, you would not get away with it, not even in your strip club.

SJG"

@san_jose_creep once again and as usual you make no sense. If this is an open board where anyone can post anything, then by definition it means that they can talk trash if that's what they so desire. It's no different than you making idle threats that you can back up. LMFAO you post what you want and so does everyone else. And if they want to point out the numerous flaws in your logic, they can! And the only thing that you can do back is type whatever you want. Just note that there's little that you can do to stop anyone. And ironically that's why you get away with posting your mindless drivel. Ad nauseum!

And by the way, why are you reading this and why do you play "pretend ignore"? 😂😂😂

@CC99 I see you're not verified. There was a discussion in there regarding members becoming verified. A few days before that thread popped up, SJG private messaged me out of the blue with some BS. He was on ignore for that very reason for a previous time, but his message still slipped through. I had to take him off ignore in order to tell him to not message me ever again. Then I put him back on ignore. In that thread, I became aware that I'm not the only one he does that to - press his opinion on others. I have zero respect for people who spew and force their opinions down the throats of other people. He's unable to stay on topic and very few of his posts are relevant to what this forum is supposed to truly be about. I have absolutely no respect for him and he offers very little to TUSCL. If you knew the exact itinerary of how/when things occurred, then you would know that I did not actually start any of this. This includes the breakdown of PMs from him and others about him, including warnings about him.

I believe in "staying in your lane", which is what I am doing from now on regarding that "thing". I hate children in real life and I also hate them on message boards. This is going to be the very last time I talk about him or respond on this thread.

Unlike that "thing", I actually do have "it" on ignore and I am using that feature.

Thank you.

in my opinion... nobody should be talking trash about anybody.

Waffle, I have never sent anything to you which has not also been sent to dozens of other people, mostly those who had not posted in quite a while. The message to which you are referring was in my view, a very good statement of something which has been talked about a great deal. It is further up on this thread.

You PMed me 4 times in August 2018. Why you have wanted to get belligerent or to start talking trash about me I cannot fathom. But in doing so you not only show yourself as a troll, you encourage other trolls, worse trolls.

You are on ignore so that you cannot PM me, but this does not mean that you or anyone else have license to talk trash about me.

You would not get to do such f2f. For one thing it would be harassment. For another, it would create a safety problem.

If you think that you could do such in your strip club, where is it, and give me an email address: tuscl.net

SJG

Going back to this threads topic, I think that those of us custies who do not want to b PL's and Chumps anymore, should learn how to steer the interactions a different way. Mostly this means not buying dances, but still being generous with the money.

SJG

Damm, I need a lap dance And dammit, I will pay for it

And Damn it, this forum is not a strip club. So you are left to your keyboard.

SJG

SJG said "For another, it would create a safety problem."

Congrats on finding a new way to threaten a woman while remaining entirely gutless.

He actually said that? 😂😂😂 How pathetic.

Ishmael and Waffle, don't you two have anything to talk about except me?

And neither of you would get to go on like this f2f.

SJG

Yeah... you know what?

I would.

No you would not Ishmael. You cannot harass people f2f, and not even if you were a female dancing in a strip club.

SJG

My father has been a US Senator for a very long time. When you are young, and don’t want to waste time with civilian girls, strip club extras and Baltimore whores offer a great chance to relax and bang a few loads out.

I’ve explored whores in many parts of the world.

I’m no fan of Chinese whores, as they tend to be skinny and flat assed, and their services are highly mechanical.

I enjoy Ukrainian whores due to their aesthetic beauty and willingness to do most anything for American money. These girls are as good as Russian whores, but they are much cheaper!

I’ve sampled Dark Chocolate and I love me some big milky brown titties! Those colored girls can make an ass clap like it’s an Olympic event!

But, my favorite is the Brazilians. Those whores are top notch. They don’t care where they are - they will suck your dick like it’s a tasty Chorizo! They get the Biden stamp of approval!

^^^^ FRMOS's, then FS-ITC, and then TLN, far better than buying dances.

SJG

amazon.com

Great Blues youtube.com

I think this thread, asking about the idea of Extras, is a good one. Like to try to steer it back.

I've never gone along with the idea of "extras". And below I tried to explain why. I think the concept is just wrong headed, and that it doesn't need to be that way. Lap dancing, or contact strip clubs had not started out that way.

When you talk about Extras, mostly you are just talking about getting a girl to administer intimate acts, usually ejaculation services, for money, but without her opening up to you emotionally.

So the money itself is not the problem, it is just the entire choreography. And it is based on the fallacy that intimate acts work well when done that way. Basically you are just asking the girl to impersonate a FemBot.

Before trying to get a girl to do such things, and before trying to do anything which requires privacy, it is far better to give her the chance to know you some and open up. Then what does ensue will be far better. No reason to ever go beyond what the girls is currently able to be open to.

And so we note, that for those who are able to appreciate it, TJ would seem to be much better. But even there it sounds like most still do not appreciate it.

So below is what is posted above and what was sent out to many:

I've never gone along with the concept of Extras. Just the wrong way to look at it.

For one thing, lap dancing started as lap sitting. What else went along with that varied widely. But it was all front room, and it was fairly free flowing. Titty massaging was standard, but there was also a substantial amount of DFKing and FIVing, if you interacted with the girl in the right way.

amazon.com

It was after Jim and Artie faced down Dianne Feinstein by going through a felony criminal trial and so all the legal risks were gone, that the Big Brave Soldiers of the Mafia came in and introduced booths and backrooms.

In some cases the mileage could be higher. But mostly, it must meant a larger house cut, as those booths and backrooms were also toll gates. And this also meant that they could crack down on the front room mileage.

So while the costs and the house cuts went way up, it also spoiled the free flowing nature of the front room interactions. And then this in turn served to undermine whatever might happen in the backrooms.

So I think Extras is just the wrong way to look at it. You want your girl to just open up and just let it happen. You don't want her to be performing a service upon you. And you especially don't want a girl doing this, trying to make you ejaculate, when she has not opened up herself.

The way you would get her so opened up is in the front room, with money, but also just so the two of you can interact in a more open manner. Usually this will mean a front room makeout session, and that goes the easiest when you select and approach your girl, and though she gets money, you are still always treating her in a completely civilian manner. And pick the one you want carefully. Pick the one you want to be waking up with in the mornings. She will be able to feel this, and it will make things go better.

SJG

sjguy. some of us don’t want that deeper emotional connection.

^^^^ The physical intimacy does not really work that well until the girl opens up.

Mostly what it comes down to is letting both parties shift from the Sympathetic Nervous System to the Para Sympathetic Nervous System.

Otherwise is really is just like paying a girl to impersonate a Fem Bot.

Agree?

When strippers want OTC or to get to know a guy, DFKing is common. That still seems to be the best way to go about it.

In AMPs, select your girl carefully and let her see that, then get her DFKing, and it will be mind blowing.

SJG

The physical intimacy works fine even without a deep emotional connection. That's my experience at least. Seems to be Misterwonderful's experience also judging from his last post.

Sex acts have a huge effect on women, and on men too.

That will be there when it is gone about in the right way. For one thing you don't want to negotiate a girl into sex acts. She can still get money, as that helps. But best if she just openly consents to let things escalate. So you don't want to have to talk her into anything. You want her to just let it happen.

And this gets to my point on this thread, that the idea of "extras" is just the wrong way to look at it.

SJG

tuscl.net

LMAO san_jose_creep has never come down from his GFE SS from that one time in the 90s. He's allowed it to become his world view.

The End

SJG... you're not battling a lack of understanding on our part.

We don't want what you want. We want other things. People get to want others things.

Stop telling people that they're having fun wrong. It's shitty.

Period.

Something I find sad about the current state of this site is that this is a strip club site - and a thread about discovering extras - with over 170 posts - and possibly 25 posts are about extras. That is very sad...

I was at the Market Street Cinema in San Francisco in the late 90s enjoying a dance from a porn star feature named Kimberly Kupps in one of the back rooms when she said to me 'why don't you take it out" I did and she went to work on it. Very pleasurable experience.

Thanks large for getting back on topic! Those were the good old days!

I used to go to Times Square with a buddy who loved hitting the sex shows - and sex shops. He would take Polaroid pics with porn stars - fucking the girls, eating them out - dildo fucking them too. He had an x rated scrap book of pics!

CMI once again sums it up nicely. I still can't understand why that's so hard for him to get. You figure you can tell a person, "I don't want this, but I want that instead" and that's a clear cut concept.

Anyway, to get back on topic, my first experience with extras was at Synn, but looking back on it now it was kinda weak. I made the trip down to Socal just so I could experience these legendary COI clubs that I didn't even know existed till reading this forum. Till then, I thought my Vegas LDKs were the most fun that could be had in a strip club. I was sooo wrong.

At Synn I got a covered titfuck from a beautiful dancer with nice big fake boobs and that was the first time I ever had my dick out of my pants in a strip club. Still, it was a covered titfuck so not all that great.

The next day at Paradise Showgirls was much better. With me getting to experience my favorite fetish in all its glory with a dancer who remains to this day my ATF.

Strip Clubs are well oiled finely tuned machines designed to separate marks from their money.

But as to the women, they are exactly what they appear to be, no deceptions are being employed.

If you repeatedly take what strip clubs offer at face value, then you are a chump. Its just like how some find "fun" in drugs and alcohol. Eventually you expect people to smarten up.

Same goes for "extras". Eventually you expect people to smarten up.

SJG

Momentous date in TUSCL history September 25, 2018 when vu posted:

"American dancers do not want to make out with guests. Period. Stop blaming the clubs, blame the 99.999% of American dancers who find this practice disgusting."

tuscl.net

So is that Stripper Web talk, or is that Stripper Web talk.

When I first joined TUSCL I did extensive searches about DFKing on Stripper Web. And they are livid about it. They are livid about being able to see it happening in the dance booths. And they are livid about seeing it in the front room.

But guess what, the ones livid about it are not the ones who are doing it, and these later are significant in number.

But what about when you have a large nationwide chain which has former dancers in its management and which largely operates as a think tank, figuring out how to more efficiently clip money off of you, and when this management is convincing dancers that makeout sessions are disgusting, and that they make more money by refusing en masse?

Fact is though that they don't all completely refuse, but the doctrine does make things more difficult. It pulls down the median back room mileage, and it compromises the quality. And if you want to get under a girl's skin, it makes that more difficult, and more expensive.

And the dancer's and house only make more money because they have a near monopoly and because they really limit the number of dancers per shift. Otherwise, as well documented about dives across the country, DFKing helps make things happen.

You must see that there is a problem!

SJG

tuscl.net

^^^^^ This is vu, a high ranking Deja Vu executive. Seems to run most if not all of their clubs, including SF and TJ.

This seems to be what they tell the young girls who come to work in their show clubs. It keeps the front room mileage to near zero. And this tends also to lower the median mileage for the back room. And it also spoils the quality of what happens in the back rooms.

"American dancers do not want to make out with guests. Period. Stop blaming the clubs, blame the 99.999% of American dancers who find this practice disgusting."

And really, the dancers are not always like that.

SJG

DV took over SF when many of the clubs were straight up brothels, run by the Mafia. And there were really no front room limits. The girls were cool. FRMOS's very common.

No one in San Francisco is going to say that a FROMS violates any law.

But DV wants to regulate it because it forces guys into the back room, toll gates, and it gives them some credibility talking to the younger and non-experienced girls.

So they turn pleasure palaces into show clubs.

Limits median back room mileage, and takes all quality away from it.

THis is my beef with them.

They say that their job is to make the most money for their investors, not to give PL's the most off the hook experience.

Young hotties bring in money. But they are also the most likely to be squeamish.

Their girls do not universally hold to no kissing. But with most guys, not ready to spend money and use DATY them to soften them up, there is no kissing.

Some girls leave DV when they realize that they are being over managed and they are having to bribe bouncers. One I knew went to MBOT. I asked if we could do more there. She said, "Oh lord yes." They want to do things their own way, which usually is best.

Very different from how SF used to be. Originally it was all front room. Almost anything except FS was common, including makeout sessions. THen with the back rooms, some of the clubs really did turn into brothels, and front room makeout sessions and FIV were common. Makes the back room much much better.

As reported on TUSCL and on Black Strip Clubs .net, in dives across the country, FROMS's are common, as then it is back room or dark corner FS. And in Houston and Dallas they had had the "chair forts", for FS privacy.

SJG

^^^^^ This is why I say that the Extras idea is just dumb, wrong. You don't need to have a dissociated girl trying to use Grinding, HJ, or BJ, to make you cum.

What you want is a girl who is letting her defenses down and just letting it happen, letting you "have your way with her".

And pick the one you want, so that this is really nice.

Then take her home with you and continue to see her regularly.

SJG

@SJG you posted all that stuff back to back. And yet you still make the same mistake that you've made ever since you got on this forum: trying to tell people want they want.

SJG posted: What you want is a girl who is letting her defenses down and just letting it happen, letting you "have your way with her".

Why do you keep trying to tell people what they want?r

Continued from above, you can tell us what YOU want, as you've done plenty of times. What you don't get to do is dictate what I or anyone else wants. I'm wondering if you will ever get this. Or if you are really THAT damn stubborn?

TFP, you are talking into a brown paper bag. Do you have the hiccups? Is that the issue?

The women in strip clubs are presented in a particular way. But only a chump will go for that at face value.

The women who dance in strip clubs are exactly what they appear to be. No deceptions are being employed.

If you want LDKing and extras, go for it. I like to get them breathing hard and bucking their hips in a preliminary makeout session. I like the colors that bloom in their faces when my jizm flows into them. I like to be waking up with them in the mornings.

You do what you want, I'm not stopping you.

SJG

^^^ I don’t know if stubborn is an accurate description to someone with a coconut head.

How about just having a head, that is what make me different from far too many of the regulars here.

SJG

Crazy. He gets mad and starts insulting me just for me telling him that what he wants is not what I want.

I've said it before and it most definitely still applies: with every post you make you remind me how fucked off in the head you are. I don't think I've ever encountered a single person online that is more batshit crazy than you are.

TFP, you want real girls, stripper grade hotties, to impersonate FemBots.

You do what you want, I do not care.

SJG

He's actually sane: just fucking stupid, cheap and lazy.

^^^^^ skibum needs his daily prune juice funneling.

SJG

SJG said "I like to get them breathing hard and bucking their hips in a preliminary makeout session."

I'd like to introduce you to the term "struggling to get away."

"I like the colors that bloom in their faces when my jizm flows into them."

Strikingly similar to forceful asphyxiation...

"I like to be waking up with them in the mornings."

Question... where do you buy chloroform in bulk without throwing a red flag for law enforcement?

CMI, when you finally decide to come out of whatever cave you live in, you will find all kinds of new things to learn about.

SJG

Not everyone wants what you want. Stop telling people that they're having fun wrong.

Dick head, I could not care less what you want or how you have what you call fun.

The women who dance in strip clubs are real, they are not FemBots, even though some guys don't seem to know how to relate to them any other way.

SJG

Nonetheless ... not everyone wants what you want. Stop telling people that they're having fun wrong.

I don't care what people want and I don't care about their fun.

Ishmael, go talk to someone else, 'cause I don't care what you say.

Strip clubs are a gimmick, but the women who dance in them are exactly what they appear to be.

SJG

If you don't care about other people's fun, then you should stop telling them they're having fun wrong.

The women who dance in strip clubs are real women. They are not mechanical ejaculation machines.

SJG

I know that already. And I don't treat them like that. Yet, not everyone (including me) wants what you want. Stop telling people that they're having fun wrong.

It's shitty.

I don't care if people have 'fun' or not.

Go shit on some other thread, not one I am posting on.

SJG

Not sure if you're aware, but a huge reason why guys go to strip clubs is for fun...

But you "don't care if people have 'fun' or not", which I suspect is why everyone rightfully shits on you when you tell them that they're having fun wrong.

Also, you're the one who advocates for a wide open forum with no moderation. Well, here are the fruits of your desires.

Stupid Jerkoff Guy was even more stupid than usual when he said, go shit on some other thread...

Says the moron who shits on every thread he can get to.

This almost tempts me to take "Stupid Jerkoff Guy" (which made me laugh out loud the first time I read it) off of ignore.

Almost. :)

Ishmael and Prevert, you two guys need a double ended dildo.

SJG

He has a point. For all of the threads you invade, you're really the last guy to tell anyone to get off your lawn. Especially when it isn't even your lawn. You're not the OP.

Ishmael, I do not care what you think. Your words are worthless. Go shit on some other thread, You are only here because I have posted. Go FUCK YOURSELF!

SJG

For a lot of us here we have had relationships where the line between friendship and business was pretty blurry. But SJG seems to think that everyone here is treating women entirely as subhuman objects. In reality he is the one who is treating women like interchangable robots. Maybe he feels bad about it but can rationalize that he's not as bad as the other guys...

SJG said "Ishmael, I do not care what you think. Your words are worthless."

Spoken like a guy entirely lacking a counter argument.

Actually, I'm here because I posted on-topic content further up the thread. You're here (and in nearly every single thread) just to tell people that they're having fun wrong.

Try being on-topic sometime. Who knows? You might like it.

You are only posting on this thread because you want to make trouble. GO AND SHIT SOMEPLACE ELSE, NOT HERE!

SJG

I'm posting here as part of a debate, which you're not capable of having. You combatively challenge people in numerous threads every day and expect them to put up with it sans protest.

Well, here's several people challenging you. Turnabout is fair play, as they say.

Stupid Jerkoff Guy, you’re only posting on this thread to make people think you’re insane.

It’s working.

Double standard much moron? “You shouldn’t shit on posts the way I do! I don’t like it. It’s ok for me though because I’m special.”

Yeah, “special” is right.

Prevert and Ishmael, neither of you would get away with this type of harassment f2f. You are only doing this online because you are each being shits.

And I do not care what either of you think.

SJG

... sigh... now it's the f2f thing...

You're in one of your agitated autism loops, aren't you? Is this making the librarians nervous?

Geez... now I'm starting to feel bad.

For the librarians.

Stupid Jerkoff Guy doesn’t care what we think.

Which is why he keeps replying to us.

“f2”? Big talk. Empty talk.

Ishmael and Prevert, if you tried something like this f2f, that would most always mean that you were someplace where you did not have a right to be.

As such, because of your persistence, I would place you each under Citizen's Arrest and order you each to lie face down on the ground.

What would happen next would depend upon the nature of the threat I saw you as being, and on whether or not you were complying with my commands. Suffice to say that you would be removed. But whether you would be removed by police, by paramedics, or by the coroner would depend on how you conducted yourselves.

No one would put up with you f2f, and I would not either. You are only posting on this thread in order to prove that you are a shit. You are making no topical contribution to what otherwise was a perfectly good thread.

SJG

@SJG I don't get it. You say "do what you want, I don't care". But yet anytime someone DOES post what they want and it's not in line with what you want, you try to tell them what YOU want them to do.

Example, someone posts about getting dances. You post right behind them with the same line you copy and paste every time "buying dances is a chumps game. Front room makeout session.......". If you really don't care what we do, then why must you post that line every. damn. time? If you truly didn't care what others do, then you wouldn't feel the need to post that every time.

TFP, your words are just you're excrement being dumped on this forum. You know that I do not agree with you, but you still keep trying to bully.

You would not get away with this f2f, as at some point you would be in violation of the law and you would be arrested.

SJG

Citizens arrest? More big empty talk. I’m never where I’m not supposed to be so good luck with that.

Drake the women who dance in strip clubs are real. You don't have to take what is offered in strip clubs at face value. Use your head, I mean the big head.

SJG

^^^ SJG, do you think you could forcibly handle me, a former Big aren’t football player turned comedian? F2f, you’d better bring an army of Mexicans if you want to do an arrest on a big white Pale guy Like me!

Come to one of my shows so we all can laugh our asses of at you!

Gassagain, like I told you before, if you tried your usual stuff f2f, you would be given warnings and some amount of free pass.

But after that, it would be police, paramedics, or the coroner. I am a nice guy, but beyond a point I do not play.

SJG

@SJG you don't agree with me about what? My last lost wasn't trying to bully you, I was trying to ask you a legit question. But if you're just throwing insults then it's cool.

I take it your time at the public library is nearing an end for today anyway. Guess we'll see you tomorrow at the usual time, champ.

I'm not sure if you guys are aware, but there's actually a growing population of guys serving time in maximum security prisons for 'felony debate'. There's a prison gang, hand signs, tattoos, the full nine yards.

TFP... I thought you knew. For SJG, logic = bullying.

Ishmael, if you tried any of this f2f, you would be removed. Either police, paramedics, or the coroner.

You are on IGNORE.

SJG

SJG, just what scenario are you referring f to that would require you to give me an order to do anything? I’m a peaceful man, unless I’m called to action with a crazy man trying to do a FRMOS with an unwilling dancer at a strip Club. It is then I would be forced to step in and call the cops if you didn’t cease and desist, and the next step for you would be the hospital or coroner if you couldn’t wisen up!

SJG said "You are on IGNORE."

!!!!YAHTZEE!!!!

@Ishmael welcome to the club!

Except... we all know that you either log out to read posts by people you put on "Ignore", or never actually use the Ignore feature at all.

SirLapDanceAlot... Honestly, it was only a matter of time.

Damnit! CMI has the power that I wish to have. Guess I just gotta train harder.

This is my second time on SJG's "Ignore". I mean, my bunk still has my initials carved on the headboard.

Oh yeah there is that. He claimed to have Waffle on ignore yet responded to every thing she said afterwards lol.

Still, causing SJG to exclaim "you are on ignore!" IMO is like making him tap out or screaming out "uncle!". It's like he's defeated and has nothing else to come back with. Lol.

^^^ You're not wrong.

@Ishmael Agreed. If you logically paint san_jose_creep into a corner, and don't relent, his only escape and out is to put you on ignore.

For me I kept hitting him on the fact that he doesn't actually go to strip clubs in real life and that he ruined his marriage and life from excessive mongering. He doesn't want to hear that and couldn't escape it, hence I get put on "ignore". Whatever that means.

His brain shuts down whenever you press him on issues and facts that he wants to ignore. He first puts forth idle death threats to try and get it to stop, but then eventually he goes to good old "ignore".

Regardless, well played and thanks for the good read. 👍👏👏👏

The “coroner” it is now?

Have you ever killed a man, shithead? Have you ever stood over his body and watched the blood flow into the sand from the hole you created in his chest? Watched the life leave his eyes? Heard that last breath rattle out of his lungs? Smelled the last defense of a dying animal as all the sphincter muscles release at once? And know with a certainty that you just ended another human being’s life? That a person who was just just there thinking about his family is now just a hunk of meat on the ground?

No shithead, you haven’t. And you never will you piece of shit. You wouldn’t have the balls to do it. You’d run squealing to your mama with your diaper full of shit. Just like your posts here. Full of shit.

Fucking useless.

I'm pretty sure that SJG has never seen a vagina.

So... killing anything larger than a moth seems unlikely. Anyway, I'm sure that you'll get your answer about 10 minutes after his local library opens up.

Lol. You can pretty much determine the time the library opens by his first post.

You guys gotta realize that TUSCL posting on the free internet at the library is both san_jose_creep's strip club entertainment AND his defense mechanism from PTSD from losing his wife and wealth. He doesn't actually go to strip clubs, it's because of excessive mongering, so he needs TUSCL for his own personal psychological issues.

When he says getting lapdances is a "chump's game" it really is...to him... because he himself was a "chump" that actually thought a strip club was a place to get sex from a stripper. So to him it's not really about others that go to strip clubs for lapdances. He doesn't call it a "chump's game" for that reason. Again he calls it that so he can lay blame on that rather than himself for blowing a lot of money on lapdances without being able to get sex for it.

When he says Front Room make out sessions is a "key" to getting a stripper to open up and have OTC FS with you, it's because he fell for SS once where a stripper kissed him and suggested OTC with him. Also he's paid AMP whores for kissing and now he thinks it is an essential part of getting a stripper or AMP whore to be an OTC GF. Again, it's about him and his fantasy of ideal interactions with them rather than the reality of it all for the rest of us.

So ultimately he's always going to be repeating his mantras ad nauseum for his own psyche. And anyone that fights and argues with him is going to be his online enemy because they are taking him out of his fantasy. Without TUSCL we still get to go to strip clubs and see strippers in real life, but for san_jose_creep he's got nothing if he can't be post here.

^ if he can't post here

I think he's creepy as fuck.

@Ishmael Absolutely he's creepy. He doesn't really understand women but he yearns for a woman's affection. So in his deranged mind he's developed his own theories on how to get that affection. And he can do it all on TUSCL without any repercussions. On TUSCL he can "live" in his deranged and creepy fantasies, so he just stays here and posts about them ad nauseum. It doesn't matter that if it matches reality or not. All that matters is that his creepy psyche is at peace. Society is lucky that he's not actually out in the real world doing the things he preaches on TUSCL.

"I think he's creepy as fuck."

Seconded.

At this point it's the folks who don't think he's creepy that baffle me. I've seen a few people here say they think he's ok in their book. DC/CC being the most recent. Makes me wonder more about him tbh. From his post from the past weeks it shows why he feels that way.

It was the winter of 1986 when I discovered extras. I was a frequent visitor to a roadhouse topless strip club. After a number of long cold nights alone I ventured in for some company. The talent was always hired for the week and usually young with nice bodies. Mileage in the club was limited. I quickly fell in lust with a blonde with a perfect body and small nipples. Every time she was on stage I was up on sniffers row tipping and making appreciative comments about her body. Finally as the night closed she put a leg on each shoulder and scooted her pussy up close to my face. She drove me nutty for a bit and then moved on. After she got off stage she came and sat with me asking me if I liked the view - I quickly said it was the most beautiful view of girlhood I had ever encountered. She asked me to take her out for breakfast after the bar closed and to spend the night. My heart skipped multiple beats resulting in me nearly blabbering. We went out for breakfast like boyfriend and girlfriend even holding hands. She directed me to her motel and took me in like her boyfriend. In the room we made out and I watched as she stripped down to take a shower and she didn’t protest when I joined her. After I washed all her special spots she washed mine and got me hard. We dried off and hopped in bed - she put a cover on me and fucked my brains out. We slept a bit and I woke up to her sucking my dick so she fucked me again. About 5am she woke me up yet again and told me I had to go home so I could make it to work on time. Being a fool I asked about playing again and she informed me that I had gotten a freebie because I was sweet to her, she was lonely, she was horney and didn’t want to be alone again but next time I would have to pay and couldn’t stay the night. I stammered some more and wandered out in a cloud. For some stupid reason I didn’t go back until later in the week and yes, I asked for another romp - she ok’d it and she fucked my brains out again minus the passion for $100 and sent me out the door. As I sat in the parking lot I saw another much older guy knock on her motel door and she answered the door wearing a smile.

Thanks for bringing this thread back on topic. Let's see how long it lasts.

I have some people on ignore. But that is not license to talk trash about me. I do monitor for this when there has been a recent problem.

If any of you tried this f2f, you would not get away with it.

There would be CONSEQUENCE*S.

Here a reply to a friend who disagrees with vu, saying that American dancers think kissing customers is "disgusting", and who seems to tell the girls this. He points out what I have also seen, that these American girls are often the ones who initiate DFKing:

But that is the basis for the DeJa Vu show club business model, that dancers do not want to kiss customers, and that they find it "disgusting".

So they can get the women to agree on a rule, no front room kissing and very limited front room touching.

So then a girl will say, "wanna dance", and if you accept you will be paying good money to have a girl administer this dance, but without her having opened up to you, without lowering her psychological defenses.

I am not suggesting that anything should be "free" in a strip club.

But things go easier with unstructured front room fraternizing, than in a dance booth where since the girl has been hired to deliver, you pretty much have to let her lead it.

I say that it sucks, it is the modern version of a clip joint. And then when it gets into ejaculation services (extras), then that is even worse. No need to go to ejaculation services or to booths or back rooms, not until your girl has opened up to you.

The Deja Vu policy works because they have almost no competition in places like San Francisco. And I am sure that they came up with this approach because what they really are is a think tank, and this includes women.

And so the women think that it is really "their rule", not seeing how DV promoted it.

And then eventually the cooler dancers leave, to work in places where they are less regulated and where they don't have to grease bouncer-pimps to get to go over limits and do things their way.

Experienced dancers have assured me that they get more money via front room friendliness w/ taking in money in small increments, than they do via "wanna dance" and there being a house cut.

Originally San Francisco contact strip clubs were nothing at all like this. And the change is not because LE has gotten more strict.

If you are patient and generous in DV clubs and do dances and DATY them, they soften up considerably, and will often be demonstrably reversing themselves on kissing as they try to line you up for more visits and for OTC.

But for most guys, the Chumps, they just get dances administered to them. The girl never opens up and never lets you get under her skin. This is not what Lap Dancing originally meant.

Vu had admitted that they don't really well serve the aficionados. They mostly cater to frat boys and bachelor parties. So I hope that they can be persuaded to make one of their clubs an aficionados place, like one of the 3x at Broadway and Columbus, or like New Century.

SJG

^ "Absolutely he's creepy. He doesn't really understand women but he yearns for a woman's affection. So in his deranged mind he's developed his own theories on how to get that affection. And he can do it all on TUSCL without any repercussions. On TUSCL he can "live" in his deranged and creepy fantasies, so he just stays here and posts about them ad nauseum. It doesn't matter that if it matches reality or not. All that matters is that his creepy psyche is at peace."

Well, one hour, 43 minutes.

Hope there's no consequences (no asterisks) simply for doing the math 😉

George123789 understands how to relate to women, how to identify one he likes, one he would like to be waking up in the morning with, and how the women who dance in strip clubs are no different from any other women.

Unlike all the Extras and LDKing people, and even unlike the vast majority of the TJ people,

George123789 is not a chump, he is a womanizer.

SJG

No different than Mother Teresa?

^ "When he says getting lapdances is a "chump's game" it really is...to him... because he himself was a "chump" that actually thought a strip club was a place to get sex from a stripper. So to him it's not really about others that go to strip clubs for lapdances. He doesn't call it a "chump's game" for that reason. Again he calls it that so he can lay blame on that rather than himself for blowing a lot of money on lapdances without being able to get sex for it."

@George123789 excellent story but wouldn't that be more like discovering OTC? The extra action didn't take place in the club.

To be honest your story sounds like a better time anyway. I reckon for other folks like myself first time with extras, we were just surprised to even be able to go further than just a good two way contact lap dance. I'll never forget the first time I had a dancer not beat around the bush with the question. After reaching the VIP room with her and her stripping down naked and me still having all my clothes on she asks "so are we gonna have sex and stuff?"

"story sounds like a better time anyway"

Hell yes it does, preliminary makeout session, really sweet girl, already sexually awakened.

Extras, meaning with a girl who has not let her psychological defenses down, is for CHUMPs.

But George is not a chump. He was back then a budding womanizer, by now he is probably a Master Womanizer.

When the women are from out of town, removed from the cares and concerns which usually make up the lives of women, they often are just totally OTC focused.

Some of our own local dancers are like that too though, saying, "I was wondering, should I get a motel". Probably planning on doing as many guys as possible after 2am.

More reply to a friend about DV and kissing being "disgusting".

Yes, I know that you have explained before about having good experiences with DV.

Some of it I think just comes down to the location.

Not sure why clubs of theirs would go out of business, but it is a tough industry.

Some locations are more competitive, DV cannot take it over.

In some locations they may not be able to get away with high mileage in the back room. So they just loosen up in the front room and let things be.

But in San Francisco their places are think tank designed, precision fabricated, fine tuned, well oiled machines for separating marks from their money. And making front room DFKing impossible is a big part of the formula.

As it is now in San Francisco I would expect that DV Centerfolds, primarily catering to tourists, is the most extreme. Then there are the alcohol places which operate under a much stricter kind of legal code.

What I am hoping is that things can loosen up at at least one of their other 4 no alcohol clubs.

SJG

Camel - Lunar Sea (Live) youtube.com

@SJG funny how you changed it to "preliminary make out session". Don't you always preach that you have to make out in the front room? Yet your idol George took her out of the club without that. Doesn't that go against your number 1 saying?

And I don't care if George is a womanizer, romancer, or chump. As long as he had a good time that's all that matters. You get too caught up on titles. None of that matters, as long as someone had a good time.

George was new and the girl was inviting him to spend the night with her. And George was not shelling out big money for ITC dances. He was treating her like a civilian and she was conduction herself like a wise and worldly civilian.

People who get charmed out of their money by girls who have not psychologically opened up to them, they are CHUMPs. It is not just a title, it is a description of what they are doing and of what they are!

Even many of our TJ regulars are still CHUMPs because they are not getting under girls' skin and letting things flow more freely with them.

People do all sorts of things and call it "fun" or a "good time". Means nothing, might was well be just drugs and alcohol.

SJG

SJG said "I have some people on ignore."

lol!

"But that is not license to talk trash about me."

I freely stated that you're creepy as fuck before I was on "Ignore". That's not going to change now. As far as I'm concerned, that license has no expiration date.

"I do monitor for this when there has been a recent problem."

Meaning... not actually using the Ignore feature.

"If any of you tried this f2f, you would not get away with it."

Yeah... I would.

"There would be CONSEQUENCE*S."

You know what really strikes fear into the hearts of men?... all caps and asterisks. No really. They're like the war drums of typing.

You TWA*T.

FUNNY

August 23, 2018, vu posted

"You are 100% right! Deja Vu’s product isn’t always for the aficionados. The target market at many clubs is college kids, one-time bachelor parties, etc. This is a drastically larger market than the “aficionados.”" ...

tuscl.net

and earlier that day on the same thread, vu posted

"Like any other business, Deja Vu exists to return profit for its shareholders. Deja Vu would not operate the clubs in a way that is not profitable. So sometimes that means eliminating illicit activity, operating it like a real business, and not just "letting anybody do whatever they want.""

...

Use find text to get to it, and then look at the discussion which ensued.

SJG

I’m guessing CONSEQUENCE*S means SJG will run directly home and bring his mom back to give you a piece of her mind?

Cashman, what the fuck is wrong with your head? Plenty to comment on her that is of great value, but you just want to pump it out from your anus.

SJG

More likely it means we’ll have to smell the giant screaming dump he takes in his pants the first time he gets in an actual firefight.

And listen to him whine about how we’re all mistreating him.

SJG posted "He was treating her like a civilian and she was conduction herself like a wise and worldly civilian."

George123789 posted "Finally as the night closed she put a leg on each shoulder and scooted her pussy up close to my face. She drove me nutty for a bit and then moved on."

Yup SJG, that's wise, wordly, civilian shit right there if I ever read it 🙄. That's sarcasm, btw, since I know you suck ass at detecting it.

I've notice the same pattern from you. You idolize guys who tell stories of taking girls OTC. You used to idolize Rick Dugan and you seem to be on George's nutsack also. Probably because they accomplish shit that you're not able to. Still the difference is, they understand that this is still business. George pointed out in his story that the girl gave him a freebie but the next time he had to pay. $100 was a good chunk of change in 1986 over 30 years ago when the story took place. You always paint this fairytale where you're seeing the girl repeatedly afterwards. Unless you're repeatedly paying money, you ain't gonna see shit.

SJG posted: People who get charmed out of their money by girls who have not psychologically opened up to them, they are CHUMPs. It is not just a title, it is a description of what they are doing and of what they are!

Your definition of chump differs from what the dictionary states. The official definition of chump is "an easily deceived or gullible person". A guy in a strip club, who knows the price of a dance is $20, and pays $40 for two lap dances, is not being deceived. The definition of chump has nothing to do with a girl opening up to you psychologically. Once again, that is what YOU want. Another guy who doesn't want that, does not fall into the official definition of chump.

PSYCH*O

Prevert, you are like what happens when one puts potatoes down the kitchen sink. They go through the garbage disposal okay, but then the peelings clog the drain up solid, after the disposal.

You are those peelings.

SJG

NUTJO*B

"an easily deceived or gullible person", yes TFP that is exactly how I mean it.

Strip club menus and pricings are designed for CHUMPS!

It is the guy who gets under a girl's skin, takes her OTC and is pumping loads into her at night and waking up with her in the mornings who is Womanizer.

Rick Dugan and his System have advantages, for one thing he is not buying dances. But his way also has limitations.

SJG

AUTISTI*C

SIMPLETON

NEVER BEEN IN A STRIPCLUB

All you trolls demonstrate how high the level of sexual frustration is in our country. You guys can't hear how different it is to be with women who are opened up to you.

SJG

Reply to a friend's PM:

I don't like the DV way either because it is completely manipulative. It is the modern version of a clip joint.

SJG

tuscl.net

^^^^ And they are doing it in San Francisco, where no one is going to say that Front Room Friendliness and DFKing are illegal. That had been how Lap Dancing started in San Francisco. All front room, and really good.

SJG

SJG man you're gonna keep doing it. Keep projecting what you want on everyone else. Not every guy wants to be a womanizer.

One thing: you keep throwing out the word womanizer like it's the ultimate title. If it is for you, cool. But understand it is not the case for everyone.

After all this back and forth with you, it's confirmed that in your mind everything you want is the right way, and the million other possible ways there are to go about things is the wrong way. You are extremely narrow minded. Explains why you fail to get along with many people, even on an anonymous strip club forum. You always bring up F2F interactions, I'd pay money to see what it's like for you interacting with an actual woman.

"You know what really strikes fear into the hearts of men?"

It isn't a real man and doesn't understand how to be one. It would never comprehend that question nor have the capability to have it's therapist explain it in a way it would understand.

SJG is the "it" here, of course.

Also, I would and can get away with such disrespect face to face. As can any of us. What is it going to do? Write a post on here whining about what a sad, little, pathetic lonely, piece of shit it is? Oops. There I go talking shit again.

Also, nobody is ever truly on ignore from this psycho.

Was there even a divorce or did he murder his ex-wife? Because, I could picture him murdering a female who would dare defy his pathetic, pointless musings. Perhaps he murdered her and then had a garbage front room make out session to celebrate. Oooh. Perhaps he caught his ex-wife making out in the front room of a SC, then got off to it and finished his night murdering her for defying him.

He's just a pathetic little shit stain on society.

Hey, baby, let's Skype. I will talk like this to you face to face and I will get away with it. Promise.

Smooches 😘

Oh, my club is still expecting that email, hunny. Teehee. ^_^

@TFP - I would caution you on using that train of logic about being a womanizer with SJG. His perception is that everyone here treats women like disposable objects where he seems himself as valiant and suave. Obviously that is bullshit. He is a socially inept autistic creep who can't even fabricate fake stories of sexual conquest. Where a lot of the guys on here are not weird, or creepy, or losers at all. A lot of us are pretty normal other than being sex addicts.

i can see that some people are misinterpreting what @stupid_jerkoff_guy means when he talks about “getting under a girl’s skin”. i think this may help to clear up some of the confusion:

Ed Gein en.wikipedia.org

I stated once that all of SJG's posts should be read in the voice of Buffalo Bill in "Silence of the Lambs". That kicked off about 10 posts and roughly 4,000 words from SJG about his research and fascination with serial killers.

In retrospect, I should have seen that coming.

Damn, Waffle going in! I love it! Sadly I know his retort won't be nearly as witty. I'm guessing the same ass 'if we were f2f you wouldn't get away with this' type shit.

@Paul Drake that's what always confused me about SJG. He claims we treat them like disposable objects, yet he is the one with dreams of a sex cult pumping load after load into stripper grade hotties around the clock. Delusional, hypocritical, psychotic, the list of adjectives describe a person who is beyond repair IMO.

@TFP again, san_jose_creep wants to justify, IN HIS OWN HEAD ONLY, that the way he treats women as disposable sex objects is not for anyone's logic except his own as a psychological defense mechanism. In doing so he must have something else to blame besides his own creepiness.

You are thinking too logically. He won't ever see his way as illogical no matter what argument you put forth to him. If he deviates from his own logic his whole defense mechanism breaks down. Therefore he can never deviate.

After reading her recent posts in this discussion, I like Waffle. She’s taken SJG down with an impressive post.

I think the truth about SJG is probably that he’s a very sad little man. He views society and other humans as the problem, and he fails to have any self awareness regarding any of his own flaws.

As far as his ex wife - I doubt he could kill an insect. I think he’s so horribly impotent that he’s unable to see even the most basic of tasks to completion.

Thanks Waffle! Well said.

Once again we have people who are on ignore talking trash about me. I put people on ignore, but I still patrol for that because it encourages others.

None of you would ever get away with such belligerence or harassment f2f, not even if you are a woman dancing in a strip club.

TFP has posted " Not every guy wants to be a womanizer."

Well, in most countries other than the US, well off guys keep mistresses. Though I am not encouraging marital infidelity, I think the Mistress System is worth learning from. I think it is a good deal. And it does mean a longer term and more involved relationship. It does require getting under her skin as early as possible.

The way things are now set up in strip clubs though, dances, extras, that is a Chump's Game.

When contact strip clubs first started, it was Jim and Artie Mitchell running their MBOT.

So the place filled up with very aggressive girls. The others called them "hustler girls". They did take in lots of money. But they also would do almost anything.

The only things Jim and Artie prohibited were FS. And this was all front room.

I think the understanding, or what we want to be able to understand, is that the strip club operator is not restricting the women in any ways beyond what are needed to prevent legal trouble.

Anyone with any interest in strip clubs should read this: amazon.com

Okay, well if you want a better interaction with her, a more GFE interaction, more conducive to getting under her skin and being able to start seeing her regularly outside, then you want to makeout with her in the front room. You want to do that before you take her into the back room. You don't take her into the back room to see if she is good. You take her into the back room because she is already good in the front room.

At our local very strict no touching bikini bars, or course there is not supposed to be any kissing. And it is rare. But if a girl has got her sights on a guy for OTC, or maybe if she is just bored, it can happen. Some girls will kiss any guy who gives her $1. Others have done it stage side.

Mostly, these girls want results. They don't care about $1 tips. They work there and they work there, and it is boring. What they want is to be fucked. They want OTC.

And then in our underground circuit, mostly the girls just work there to line up OTC. So if she likes you, it will be pressing forehead to forehead, or getting an arm around you and nuzzling.

I found it was better for the collective experience to start them off with open tongue kissing, to put on a show with her.

But if on the otherhand you have a strip club operator which has a near monopoly, and they have discussed these matters at length, and with a management team involving women, and they have decided to promote a Stripper Web type dynamic of scorn and moral outrage, then they can restrict all forms of front room friendliness just to make more money. I say that this is a problem.

It only works when they have a near monopoly, a more conservative clientele, and because they severely limit the number of girls they hire. And without this latter, there would be some who are older, more looks challenged, and more experienced. They will be likely to do things which break down arbitrary front room rules.

We had one where they kept the lights low and they were doing front room FS, and front room BJ's too. And these Latina's loved to kiss. It was just the most natural thing in the world for them.

At our local clubs LE is very tough, our DA's office does not want to be the one who loses a felony trial and lets it become like San Francisco. So they hit people with so many charges that they can be intimidated into pleading guilty.

The result though is that our clubs are no touching. So really you cannot do much of anything, just talking.

We accept this because we know that it is not caused by the club operator. We remember what happened to the last people who seriously challenged our DA's Office over strip clubs.

Okay, but in DV San Francisco no one is going to try and say that front room feel ups and makeout sessions are illegal. It is just because one big operator has figured out how to convince the young girls that very restrictive is best. THIS SUCKS!

SJG

hey stupid_jerkoff_guy do you think anyone here actually believes that you wouldn’t totally lose all bladder control and piss your pants if Waffle stood f2f with you and said “boo”?

what a maroon…

The way this site uses the disclaimer - everything posted here is fiction - SJG’s posts should all carry some sort of disclaimer.

Possibly - “So says a delusional, narcissistic, mongoloid - who has never written a strip club review - and who has never been in a strip club.”

^^^^^ The kinds of morons which the young women who dance in strip clubs end up having to deal with.

I certainly would never deal with such.

SJG

So then Cashman, you have outed yourself as not being TrollWarnBot I guess. That leaves a few thousand others who might be behind that persona

No, I am not TrollWarnBot.

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - Commonly referred to as SJG this forum member may have some sort of mental illness and is usually mocked or ignored. SJG has a long history of posting incendiary comments including being pro-rape. His comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate.

I see Cash as TrollPornBot rather than TrollWarnBot. 😂

^^^ lol!

SirLap ninja'd me, but the 'lol' isn't misplaced after all.

@SJG good for the well off men overseas who have mistresses. But that giant manifesto of a post still doesn't change the fact that not all men want that. You sound like you do, I wish you luck in achieving that goal.

Bottom line remains, you do you, other guys will do what they want. Until you quit trying to push your personal agenda as what all men want or should want, you're always gonna get into it with people.

SJG said "Once again we have people who are on ignore talking trash about me."

Don't look for that to stop anytime soon, Captain Crusty Pants.

"I put people on ignore, but I still patrol for that because it encourages others."

Meaning, you don't actually use Ignore.

Also, it's not like there's a lot of encouragement needed to convince anyone that you're creepy as fuck and a lunatic.

"None of you would ever get away with such belligerence or harassment f2f, not even if you are a woman dancing in a strip club."

Right. You've caught us red handed being mean to you. What are you actually going to do aside from type harder and say "something something f2f..."?

Go on. I'm waiting for your answer, because we all know you're reading this.

^^^lol!

Based on his posts, Cash would be DirtyGirlWithDaddyIssuesBot or something more clever you others might be able to come up with

TrollsWhoresBot?

TFP, if what you are saying is that you don't really like women, or that you prefer FemBots, or that you just like getting your wallet drained for nothing, I am not going to try and convince you otherwise.

SJG

FemBots are the future of sex! And looking hotter and hotter all the time.

Well right now, we have strip clubs full of women who have learned to impersonate FemBots, and their specialty is in sucking wallets dry.

Some guys, CHUMPs in my view, seem to like it that way. And one large strip club chain has figured out how to talk the younger dancers into thinking that that way is best.

This development in strip club management really sucks.

SJG

Sure. Being a sex slave in a creepy cult is so much more enriching and empowering for women.

I struggle to think of any way in which robots are not superior to the human race. Hopefully the day comes soon that they take their rightful place as our rulers, and under the gentle nature of robot rule, humans can evolve to be more like dogs. After-all, dogs came from wolves. If dogs could come out of wolves, then a better species of humans can come out of our current one as well.

CC99, I can't tell if you want to be taken seriously.

What is your interest in sex robots? Is it just to now have to deal with women?

That is so perverted. If you just want to ejaculate without women, all you need is your hand.

The fantasies which form between the ears are far more powerful than anything a robot could do for you.

And we meet young appealing women here and there, and then from zero mileage strip clubs too.

SJG

Ok SJG you've also confirmed that you suck ass at reading as well. Tell me anywhere that I mentioned that I don't like women. Or where I said I prefer fembots.

Yes on some occasions after leaving the strip club my wallet is drained dry, but it certainly wasn't for nothing as I feel great and have a smile on my face. And the most important thing is that my wallet can easily be refilled via a trip to the bank. As long as my account isn't drained dry I'm all good. It's called budgeting, son. Perhaps if you had the same ability you might still have a wife.

You don't seem to want to engage with the women besides the way they are presented in strip clubs, which really is completely contrived. Going along with that beyond a mere token level is a chumps game.

I explained that in other countries well off guys keep mistresses. I see that as a far better model to emulate than what typically happens in strip clubs.

SJG

Then you should be posting over at TUML... The Ultimate Mistress List.

Because this web site is for guys who have fun in strip clubs.

@SJG

I'll be frank...

Paying a woman to fuck me as much as I want to have sex is too expensive. Even if I ran off to a country like Germany or Japan where you can get it as cheaply as $100 an hour. It would still cost approximately $1,400 a week to maintain my habit. I don't have $75,000 lying around. In the US, even presuming I went OTC with a girl who'll fuck for RickDugan prices, I'd still have to pay about $150 an hour. Bumping it up to over $100k. Once again, I don't have 100k. And even if I did, it would be irresponsible to blow that much money per year.

Civilians girls come and go. I cannot rely on them to be available for sex at all times. I can only hope for the best. So if I want a reliable source of sex that I can really depend on to always be there, the robot becomes a very appealing option. I'd rather rely on a robot to supply me with 98% of the sex I want to have, pay a hooker every now and then, and once my brain is no longer sexually frustrated, be able to pursue a wife with less anxiety knowing that I'm not in desperate need of sex.

"Paying a woman to fuck me as much as I want to have sex is too expensive."

Agreed, like that for the vast majority of the population.

"Civilians girls come and go."

I only partially agree with this. What I would say is that making relationships work is always a challenge.

"I cannot rely on them to be available for sex at all times."

Well yes of course, no other person is in this world just to serve you or I.

Well your robot sounds like just a more expensive version of using your hand. The fantasy that runs between one's ears is far better than what the robot can create.

I don't think though one necessarily needs to be sexually frustrated.

As far as pursuing a wife, when that is being separated from sexual desire, and before you have even found her, I see that as severe trouble in the making. I don't think I have ever met a woman who would like that arrangement.

We have civvies and we have hookers of one sort or another. But I think this split is part of the historic problem, not part of the solution. There are men ( mortal flesh and blood ) who have had lots and lots of sex, all they could possibly want, but they did not do it by pressing the patriarchal split, or by going to robots.

I think we have to invent new ways in which men and women can work together, and get beyond these historical issues.

Consider this question, how much sex would you want, how many quickies, how many longer encounters and TLN's? And whether this is obvious or not, it is women that have the far higher capacities.

SJG

Once robots hit the "Better Than Us" level, it'll change very many things fundamentally, including the adult industry.

en.m.wikipedia.org

It won't be within our lifetime, but I believe it'll happen eventually. Anyway, it was an interesting TV series.

And we're back to square one. The way I engage with women in strip clubs is my choice. The way you choose to engage the women in clubs is your choice. It's possible for 2 different patrons to enjoy the women 2 different ways and both be satisfied. And both experiences were with women, no mention of fembots.

+1 to CMI. SJG you keep bringing up mistresses, which has nothing to do with strip clubs. And how would that even apply to you? You say you don't believe in the marriage system, which leads me to believe you won't get married again. If that's the case, you won't ever need a mistress.

Fun fact... TUML banned SJG.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the site exists and he was actually banned. Probably banned from every site that has moderators. I hear him always speak negatively of the moderators at the now defunct TJamigos. Probably the same deal.

Well I have a lot of catching up to do given the way the past three years have been.

I think that, assuming I have a robot sometime before the year 2021. That would mean 3 times a day, one hour each, for four years will be fine. By 2025 I'd probably reduce it down to once a day in order to maintain abundance. I think this will repair the psychological impact the past three years have had.

Human girls cannot be expected to maintain such a schedule without them getting bored with the routine nature of it so I'm not sure if its worth the bother. This is a personal thing, best to leave other people out of it. If it happens, great, if not the robot will be fine.

Its not the equivalent of using your hand because your hand doesn't give you access to the sensation of feeling a girl's body. Sex robots have been designed to feel ultra-realistic though. So if you squeeze their ass or their thigh it will feel like squeezing a real girl's ass or thigh. They come with mouths and a tongue as well so you can make out with them.

It might not be exactly the same but its a very similar sensation. According to experts, the robots are supposed to be capable of kissing exactly like humans in 1-2 years.

1 to 2 years?

Nope. You'll need to produce some pretty compelling evidence to convince me of that.

dailystar.co.uk

Lol I've seen that joke in a lot of the comments sections.

I prefer my whores to be human and female - and filthy and well used. This virtual girl sounds useless.

I must be getting old - as I prefer sex to be between humans.

We've had this argument before. I maintain that sex does not require a human. All that matters is the sensations felt, and the sensations felt when having sex with a robot are far more similar to the sensation of sex than the sensation of masturbation. Masturbation is specifically using a hand to cause an orgasm. Handjobs for example, are masturbation, not sex, despite another person being involved because handjobs use a hand.

You're not going to change my mind about this.

My view on this is similar to playing single player with bots instead of playing a multiplayer video game. Humans are hard to play with. They drop out in the middle of the game, oftentimes you can't fill up the server, they do annoying things like camp in one spot and wait for people to walk by. I'd rather play with bots who are simple, easy, predictable, and I can play with whenever I want.

What a great thread !?! Lol

Its a perfect analogy.

I never thought of it as boring. I loved playing with bots. I downloaded Counter Strike Source, played online a couple games. Really didn't like the online experience, found out I could play with bots instead and played approximately 150 hours with bots.

While san_jose_creep was busy typing on TUSCL and in this thread, I was at the club with my ATF DS. Yes, amazing, it was an ACTUAL stripper interaction. And for an entire hour at zero cost to me she acted like a slutty GF and teased my hard dick to the point that I could have LDKed several times. But I held out and resisted because I WANTED to go get lapdances. So after that hour of complete dick teasing for free, we go and get a couple of dances. And they were very high mileage and I easily LDKed after two. Total cost for the entire night was $70. Not exactly wallet draining. And my ATF DS was the furthest thing from a fembot to me.

It was a great, cheap, and sexually satisfying way to start the weekend for this CHUMP! And I plan on doing it numerous times before san_jose_creep ever gets with a woman in real life.

Sorry, no extras for me, ever. I don't want them, nor do I want a mistress. I'm all good being a "chump" and LDKing hundreds of times while san_jose_creep compounds his sexual frustrations by typing about his creepy fantasies ad nauseum but never actualizing any of them in real life.

I agree that SJG could probably cool it some with trying to tell people what kind of sex and relationships they should be having. But it doesn't make him a bad person. He certainly isn't the first person in the world to project his personal preferences onto other people. I think, to a certain extent we all do that sometimes. SJG is just doing it more than average.

@CC99 - It's not just that SJG constantly tells people their preferences are wrong. It's not just that he spams the same comments over and over with no respect to common conversational courtesy. It's also that by the very nature of the language he uses he is insulting everyone and his insults are nonsense. Despite the PL moniker guys here aren't awkward losers who treat strippers like objects. They are mostly normal guys who happen to be sex addicts. Some guys here are the life of the party and by the very nature of having TONS of experience around astonishingly gorgeous women are super successful at forming complex deep relationships with them.

Uh huh...

Daily Star is a British gossip tabloid.

That article was an infomercial for the doll manufacturer.

Your "expert's" name is "Brick Dollbanger".

One to two years isn't remotely possible.

Hey I mean, dollbanger's gotta be an expert in the field right?

I hadn't analyzed it all that closely so I didn't have all the details right but I wouldn't put it past technology. We are advancing at an incredibly rapid rate now.

Personal opinion... nothing is going to get to the other side of the uncanny valley in our lifetime. And I say this knowing that you are much younger than I.

So, don't hold your breath.

@PaulDrake I think I just don't take his insults all that seriously. I've fallen into plenty of the categories of people he has insulted but I always just kind of think to myself "well that's SJG" and move on. I don't believe that SJG has any malice. I think he's a genuinely good natured guy. And I tend to have a lot of sympathy for people I think are misunderstood.

-->@PaulDrake: "It's not just that SJG constantly tells people their preferences are wrong. It's not just that he spams the same comments over and over with no respect to common conversational courtesy. . ."

There's that and it's annoying but it's cured by the Ignore button. Biggest problem with asshat in my opinion is the derailing of PL education tuscl provides better than any online resource I'm aware of.

When I first stumbled on this site a few years ago (and I was googling club stuff for weeks before that, this site for some reason just doesn't appear easily in searches), I read all his front room makeout session nonsense and dances are for chumps and thought to myself oh that sounds great maybe I could play it like that. Well I didn't try and I'm glad I didn't because it's stupid and nonexistent. Strippers sell dances and rooms, that's what they do. And front room makeout sessions don't exist and they're not a path to OTC.

If PLs tried to follow his unsound advice the strippers would all talk and that PL would get forever tagged as the club creep. Anyone with a brain will ultimately figure out, hopefully sooner than later like I did, that his advice is shit. But ideally it shouldn't be that way and it sure doesn't help the rookie PL. TrollWarnBot wasn't around when I first landed here and hopefully his postings are helping save other rookies.

Can't believe I used the word "methods" to refer to SJG's blathering. Calls to mind this dialogue from the excellent motion picture Apocalypse Now: Capt. Willard: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound. Colonel Kurtz: Are my methods unsound? Capt. Willard: I don't see any method at all, sir.

Lots of men have had lots of sex, and they didn't do it by having a huge hooker budget, or by having robots.

One whom I posted about before was Larry Flynt. He was in the Navy, and he was married and frustrated. He got shore leave in Paris and so he walked in to a brothel. He saw 30 whores, all lovely. They told him to pick one. He couldn't, so he picked all of them. He told them to disrobe, turn around, and bend over.

He gave each of them a little action, spent an entire month's pay, and he also threw his back out. But the experience changed him, he vowed he was never going to submit to the rules of monogamy again.

Then later back home with his wife in OH, there as a drunken incident with a gun and where he crashed his car. It could have been worse, and he served some jail time. But after that he was done.

So he asked himself, what sorts of guys "get laid" all the time? He decided that it was Athletes, Musicians, and Bartenders.

And of this latter, Bartenders are getting laid because women work in bars. I guess as waitresses. But Flynt would go on to become a pioneer in the field of the new GoGo Bars.

Eventually he owned 8 of them in Southern Ohio. And he would be doing another girl about every 4 hours, around the clock and thought out the week.

And then as to how much sex do women want, I think it really depends on the social environment they have come of age in and live in. Someone had posted about this Asian girl at SF MSC in the 90's. Sounds like she went about stripped down to nothing more than high heels and makeup, and that there there were not really any rules of limits. So as a completely off-the-hook girl, she could just engage with a guy right there, getting money out of him, FRMOS, oral, whatever. Maybe FS in the back rooms, or maybe just right there. The more off the hook she is, the more she will just want to make it happen right there as that is faster, and less money to the house.

But now with DV in charge, they completely fuck up the interactions, by prohibiting front room friendliness. That completely screws up what might happen in the back rooms, as well as making the whole thing very iffy and very expensive. They don't do this out of legal necessity, they do it because most guys are dance buying chumps, and because they can be taken advantage of to get all their money.

SJG

"The only time he is not shooting himself in the foot is when he's got to stop to reload." News Hour Commentator Mark Shields, speaking about our President

Great Girl:

tuscl.net

The Jeff Healey Band - Live at Montreux 1999 youtube.com

Oh yeah, almost forgot. The petite Asian girl, when she wanted to piss she would not use the ladies room. She would just squat down over a waste paper basket.

I guess that way was faster, and so she could be back to another guy sooner.

SJG

^^^ What a twat.

"For example, I used bots to practice in Counter Strike, and I genuinely enjoyed bots in Battlefield 2 because it was always too hard to gather large number of people. Continuing your analogy, I guess I'd use the robots for practice and group fantasies 😁"

That makes sense, I think robots are especially good if you're low on experience.

Have you seen "Futari Ecchi?" Its pretty good and funny too. Basically two virgins get married and have to figure out how to have sex. There's a manga, an anime OVA, and a live action film depending on which one you feel like doing.

Some women want and get lots and lot so sex and with more guys than you could ever imagine. Though often they are taking in money, that is not necessarily the only reason they do it.

I believe that this is mostly just the girl's social background and maybe temperament.

Anyway the Deja Vu style club, like in San Francisco, it is just taking advantage of guys who are bascially chumps.

Opposite of what Jim and Artie Mitchell did where the girls felt that they were enlightening and educating guys, guys who had not experienced much of the sexual revolution.

And they did this with physical and emotional openness.

And this is what I got, totally blew my mind and changed the course of my life, from a super cute petite big tits black girl in New Century.

SJG

Like the OP, I found out about extras from TUSCL. More specifically, from clowns that definitively stated that the pursuit of extras was the only reason to enjoy clubbing.

Extras aren't the only reason for my enjoyment of clubbing, but they do add to my enjoyment.

The over priced booze, seedy locations, velvet chairs, and the sketchy patrons are the other reasons why I enjoy clubbing...

It is fascinating how SJG can continue to elaborate on clubbing when his club experience was very long ago, and it involves only a single strip club. He continues to recant the same statements in each discussion, and he adds nothing to most arguments, aside from certain key phrases - clip joints, chumps, front room action, frmos, tln, Mexican underground club circuit, etc.

Decline to State wrote a few days back:

" When I first stumbled on this site a few years ago (and I was googling club stuff for weeks before that, this site for some reason just doesn't appear easily in searches), I read all his front room makeout session nonsense and dances are for chumps and thought to myself oh that sounds great maybe I could play it like that. Well I didn't try and I'm glad I didn't because it's stupid and nonexistent. Strippers sell dances and rooms, that's what they do. And front room makeout sessions don't exist and they're not a path to OTC. "

I first learned about "extras" by reading Spectator Magazine. This was a weekly newspaper for the Bay Area Strip Clubs and related industry. Often it had photo spreads and interviews with dancers.

What extras meant was that lap dancing clubs had changed from front room only to having back rooms. Mostly it meant ejaculation services like LDKing or BJ's using condoms and rubber gloves. And the costs of this, especially the latter, tended to be high.

It was also interesting because Jim and Artie Mitchell's primary trial defense was that since it was all front room and in front of other people that it was not really for sexual gratification and hence it was not really prostitution, and hence not crime.

Rather, the way they wanted it to be seen was as a kind of sex education, something done more for shock value.

Jim Mitchell after all had seen a show in Copenhagen based on Front Room DATYing. It really blew his mind. He wanted their theater to have the same effect.

So now tough with that trial won, and with different people running San Francisco, and with the Mafia taking over some of the strip clubs, they had moved to booths and back rooms. And then Spectator had a few issues which featured this one girl.

She said, "There is this lie going around that lap dancing is not prostitution."

And then she explained about condoms, rubber gloves and $200 BJ's.

Well, she was totally contradicting the Jim and Artie Defense.

And then it became known that Market St. Cinema and New Century had built suits of totally enclosed VIP Rooms, clearly intended for FS. But do you get enough time, is the cost reasonable, and can your soften your girl up with a preliminary makeout session? I got that all the time in AMPs, and one awesome makeout session in New Century with an extremely cute black girl.

So Decline to State says that the girls sell rooms and dances, and that front room make out sessions do not exit.

Is this true?

1. At the Sunnyvale Brass rail there were no back rooms, and no private dances. DFKing was rare, but not non-existent. So, untrue.

2. At the Sunnyvale Hip Hugger, there were no back rooms. Private dances was just your girl staying in front of you, on the other side of bar. Girls and the stage were behind the bar. Dances were cheap or just pay as you go, and mostly just a way to talk to your girl. DFKing was rare, but not non-existent. So, untrue.

3. At Sunnyvale Cheetah's ( formerly KitKatClub ) there were dances, nude, but otherwise not much. But I talked with girls for hours and hours essentially for free. These girls are just like anybody else, not professional money extractors. Never seen DFKing there, but the Decline to State thesis still untrue.

4. How about at our underground circuit. Well all that was was table dancing, and that meant a girl dancing right about between your knees. They did not sell dances, they just did dancing. They did not ask permission, they just did. Then they tried to get money. Usually in that environment a guy would just play some with each of the girls. When you were done with her, you just gave her her last dollar and sent her on her way. What did dances consist of? Well mostly just grinding her hips between your thighs. But there was often lots of pawing. Sometimes working a girl from her rear end, using thumbs in order to spread her pussy some. Some girls just parked their sternum on your face, so it was "boobs right in his face." Others gave you a whap whap whap in the face, using their boobs. Others kind of rode your thigh and made like they were having orgasm after orgasm. Some wanted FIV. It varied.

Was their kissing? By the people who ran it there was not supposed to be. But most all of the girls did OTC. So nuzzling and pressing forehead to forehead was common. And if the girl was trying to line you up and you tried to kissing, she would probably go right for it, and then follow up with a covered pussy in the face.

So the DeclinetoState thesis is again untrue.

Now how about San Francisco? Well we know that DeclinetoState is totally wrong about my extreme makeout session in New Century with a the black super cutie that I was going to invite to lunch, until I saw her walk into the strip club.

How about Deja Vu Centerfolds? Well in that club they do have booths and back rooms. They even have these fantasy rooms, like one with a gynecologist's examining table with the stirrups.

And yes indeed, the dancers do try to sell dances and rooms, and even though there is really no LE based restriction, front room makeout sessions seem to be rare. These dynamics are why I call it a clip joint.

But, is DeclinetoState really correct, because maybe one does not always have to take things as they are offered?

So I ended up with this lovely Latina-American spinner, R.

So we were sitting on the sofa, she took us to a place where the waitresses would not bother us. And yes, she wanted dances. So we talked some and I tried to soften her up a bit, and then I did try to kiss her.

She declined and said, "I don't kiss".

Now, you never try to argue or debate with a girl over something like that. And in the years since I have learned lots of smoother ways to let things happen. But still, this was a tougher situation than with the black girl in New Century.

Neither of us ever said another word about kissing.

So we did a basic dance and then I wanted to DATY her. If you think about it, that is the logical alternative to LDK or BJ dances.

And it worked wonderfully. Always does. She was very responsive. By the time we were done her juices were just about dripping from my chin. Maybe it was because she was in a vertical orientation. Tremendous experience.

She wanted more and she knew I did too. I said something and she might have misunderstood me, because she responded with her telephone number. So I took her number down.

I talked some with a lot of their girls, and more than any of the others, R. always struck me as a No Nonsense, All Needs Satisfied, Working Girl. So whatever did not happen ITC she would be more than happy to deliver OTC.

So a girl wants OTC, but she does not kiss?

Well without saying a word all of sudden she was about nose to nose with me, then she was ramming her tongue into my mouth.

R. was good with high heels and makeup, had bright blonde hair, and everything was in yellow and white. She was wearing a real cute mini-dress. But underneath she had a teddy, one piece outfit. But it was of a deep plunge pattern. And it fit so loosely that it covered nothing and would not get in the way of nothing.

On stage she seemed to keep the teddy on, while showing her everything to us.

Sitting on the sofa DFKing with her was a heady experience.

If however she had had the mini-dress off and was just in the teddy, and she was sitting on my lap, all sorts of titty massaging and titty sucking and licking and pussy spreading could have gone down. If she was climbing on me face to face, then she could have gotten DATYed right there.

MSC and New Century had a reputation for sometimes being like that.

There are SF Amps which have young latina hotties. And in SF the AMP girls are better about high heels and makeup than they are in South Bay. And the girls are more off-the-hook too.

In an AMP the house fee for one hour is only $60. So you get a full hour alone in a room with the girl, and with hooks to hang your nice clothes on.

If R. and I had been in an AMP session room, then besides all manner of climbing on me and makeout session and DATY and Fiv, we could have further gone to BJ, and then to 69ing her. This latter always works well in AMPs. And then with the massage table, the chair, and the carpeted floor, we could have done a FS round better than most porno movies. Sex workers usually go for the girl on top positions, and they are good at it. But I would have balance it with girl on the bottom positions too. Maybe a second pop then as well.

But with an AMP girl the most important thing is to get her DFKing right off. And to do this you sort of have to condition her verbally before you even get into the room.

And so Centerfolds is the DV flagship. It is intended for tourists, people who probably are not used to DFKing or DATYing strippers. But nevertheless, if you just play the girls out some, and keep spending money on dances, or just handing them money, they eventually will tend to come around.

And so no, they do not always find making out with customers "disgusting".

And R. did real turbocharged DFKing too. And with her painted up face she was a real intense turn on.

Now back than I was not prepared to take her home with me or to be waking up with her in the mornings, but I don't think it would have been difficult to make that happen with her.

I was still trying to survive a Neurotic Death Trap Marriage. And I knew that paying women for sex was really just paying them to go away, and so I really did not like that. R. was a real trip.

Is it worth it? Well if you learn how to play them out in a strip club, at large cost, and then if you do see them outside and continue, then yes it is. And R. was not just a beautiful young Latina, she was also good with high heels and makeup, and good about dressing for sex. She was a very interesting person to talk with, well above most civvies in all respects.

SJG

Burton Cummings - Undun youtube.com

I think this would be different for ordinary people to learn to sing. I think it is those jazz chords, too many notes. But it sounds awesome! Works well with the semi-hollow guitar.

tabs.ultimate-guitar.com

tabs.ultimate-guitar.com

Continuing: tuscl.net

Well, that's a lot of kooky all in one post.

Interesting how SJG will write a novel to try and defend a bizarre position, but will never write a club review.

If he actually ever went to a club I’d think he would write a review to rival War and Peace.

Cashman said "Interesting how SJG will write a novel to try and defend a bizarre position, but will never write a club review."

Not really. For all the faults I find with SJG, he is honest in his own mind. Which is to say, he may vacillate wildly between delusion and denial, but he believes (or at least wants to believe...) everything he posts.

What he doesn't want to do is test his beliefs or have them challenged. What he can't do is go to a club and have his "methods" fail repeatedly. At this point, he has invested too much into his beliefs to rewrite them to match reality.

Well said Ishmael. That makes sense - and I now understand his position a bit more.

@Ishmael that makes a lot of sense and is actually what SLD has been saying about him for awhile. If anyone challenges his theories he gets super defensive. Even worse when it's a dancer who challenges it, which is why he just about went apeshit on Waffle a while back.

But I do think he would really test those theories if he were able to. I think he's not able to because he's broke or institutionalized and physically can't go to the club. Which is a good thing for the dancers. I could see him turning psycho once he was rejected for FRMOS too many times.

@TFP it's even deeper than just not being able to actually go to a strip club and not wanting his "truths" to be proven wrong for that alone. He's stuck on TUSCL and preaching his "truths" as a psychological defense mechanism. And through this he stays in complete denial of his excessive mongering being the reason he lost his wife and fortunes. So to expose these "truths" as false is more than just being wrong about them. It's exposing his biggest failures in life which includes that of being a complete failure with women, both civilian and strippers/AMP whores. Ultimately, for him to be wrong about his "truths" is to be wrong about his entire life and ways with women, and his mind can't take it. So in posting to TUSCL without any connection to reality, he maintains a semblance of mental stability.

THE END

lol

@TFP it's even deeper than just not being able to actually go to a strip club and not wanting his "truths" to be proven wrong for that alone. He's stuck on TUSCL and preaching his "truths" as a psychological defense mechanism. And through this he stays in complete denial of his excessive mongering being the reason he lost his wife and fortunes. So to expose these "truths" as false is more than just being wrong about them. It's exposing his biggest failures in life which includes that of being a complete failure with women, both civilian and strippers/AMP whores. Ultimately, for him to be wrong about his "truths" is to be wrong about his entire life and ways with women, and his mind can't take it. So in posting to TUSCL without any connection to reality, he maintains a semblance of mental stability.

@SirLDK - I am reposting your comment to make sure SJG sees it. I do think additionally you are missing SJGs desire to feel superior. He is a creepy autistic guy that has gotten made fun of his whole life and coming on TUSCL makes him feel superior.

I agree with gsteph, the end! I'll just add AMEN!

Paul Drake I see what you did there. Reposting SLD's comment for SJG to see means taking a big step towards getting ignored by SJG.....brilliant! Why didn't I think of that?!

@FLF if a San Jose 2AMer happened at a strip club and then he all of a sudden stopped posting that we could definitely make that connection.

@TFP - I actually don't want SJG to ignore me that's why I asked him previously to put me on ignore. He is pretty easy to manipulate. It's like dealing with an obstinate toddler, you just tell him to do the opposite of what you actually want him to do.

"@SirLDK - I am reposting your comment to make sure SJG sees it. I do think additionally you are missing SJGs desire to feel superior. He is a creepy autistic guy that has gotten made fun of his whole life and coming on TUSCL makes him feel superior."

LOL san_jose_creep has already admitted to reading the posts of those that he has on "ignore". But thanks anyway.

I completely agree and know and have observed that he has a desire to feel superior. To me it's still just supplemental to the main defense mechanism issue I already highlighted, so I didn't mention it explicitly.

But to your point and mine, his ego was crushed by his failures as a husband and as a womanizer, so to stay in denial about it he has to aggrandize and brag about his "truths" as if he's superior, not only to others, but also to his former, failed self. His entire TUSCL existence is to repeat his truths as a defense mechanism and his ego is a part of it.

From this board. I honestly thought Chris Rock's no sex in the champagne room still applied.

The insights from both Ishmael and SirLD are very informative. It seems that they both have found the root cause of his issues.

I'm guessing this will cause a seething response - with possible threats of f2f violence. Their comments would not be tolerated by our resident nut job.

It's funny, he hopped online at his usual time and began posting in every thread like always.....except this one. Maybe SLD's words hit too close to home?

Strip clubs full of beautiful girls, but most guys don't want to get very intimate with them, don't want to know them, don't want to get under their skin, and even when the girls are really putting it out there.

Without threads like this and this forum I never would have believed it.

SJG

^ spoiler alert, they don't really want to get intimate with you.

It's called Stripper Shit, or SS for short. You're drunk on it.

"Strip clubs full of beautiful girls, but most guys don't want to get very intimate with them, don't want to know them, don't want to get under their skin, and even when the girls are really putting it out there.

Without threads like this and this forum I never would have believed it.

SJG"

^ @PaulDrake here's that superiority issue with san_jose_creep that you were pointing out. He has to put others down and ASSUME that he knows what others want as a means to feel that his way is superior to them.

And I'm just saying that it's more than just simply wanting to feel superior to others. It's also a means to stay in denial about his real world reality - again that he lost everything due to excessive mongering with strippers and AMP whores. As long as he keeps repeating his denials and make believe he's superior in thinking now, he never has to face his reality.

Guys who have no clue how to interact with a woman, beyond this vending machine / ejaculation services model.

SJG

^ @PaulDrake here's that superiority issue with san_jose_creep that you were pointing out. He has to put others down and ASSUME that he knows what others want as a means to feel that his way is superior to them.

And I'm just saying that it's more than just simply wanting to feel superior to others. It's also a means to stay in denial about his real world reality - again that he lost everything due to excessive mongering with strippers and AMP whores. As long as he keeps repeating his denials and make believe he's superior in thinking now, he never has to face his reality.

"Extras" is a stupid way of looking at the interaction with the girl.

Instead want to just move on her and make it happen with her.

SJG

^ @PaulDrake here's that superiority issue with san_jose_creep that you were pointing out. He has to put others down and ASSUME that he knows what others want as a means to feel that his way is superior to them.

And I'm just saying that it's more than just simply wanting to feel superior to others. It's also a means to stay in denial about his real world reality - again that he lost everything due to excessive mongering with strippers and AMP whores. As long as he keeps repeating his denials and make believe he's superior in thinking now, he never has to face his reality.

SJG’s rhetoric is old and tired.

I recommend he add a Daddio - or maybe suggest we go out for a malted with a dancer - to make his posts sound more current.

American Strip Clubs could be great in easy going areas like San Francisco. But it is this clip joint business model which ruins it. And its also the customers who expect the dancers to be FemBots, and so they are not interested in a more civilian styled intimacy.

SJG

THEORY - Rx (Medicate) youtube.com

^ @PaulDrake here's that superiority issue with san_jose_creep that you were pointing out. He has to put others down and ASSUME that he knows what others want as a means to feel that his way is superior to them.

And I'm just saying that it's more than just simply wanting to feel superior to others. It's also a means to stay in denial about his real world reality - again that he lost everything due to excessive mongering with strippers and AMP whores. As long as he keeps repeating his denials and make believe he's superior in thinking now, he never has to face his reality.

@TFP it's even deeper than just not being able to actually go to a strip club and not wanting his "truths" to be proven wrong for that alone. He's stuck on TUSCL and preaching his "truths" as a psychological defense mechanism. And through this he stays in complete denial of his excessive mongering being the reason he lost his wife and fortunes. So to expose these "truths" as false is more than just being wrong about them. It's exposing his biggest failures in life which includes that of being a complete failure with women, both civilian and strippers/AMP whores. Ultimately, for him to be wrong about his "truths" is to be wrong about his entire life and ways with women, and his mind can't take it. So in posting to TUSCL without any connection to reality, he maintains a semblance of mental stability.

@SirLDK - I am reposting your comment to make sure SJG sees it. I do think additionally you are missing SJGs desire to feel superior. He is a creepy autistic guy that has gotten made fun of his whole life and coming on TUSCL makes him feel superior.

LOL

PaulDrake, you are a creepy guy, a creepy keyboard koward.

SJG

LOL

It amazes me how vested san_jose_creep is with FRMOS as a means to make a stripper want to be your GF or mistress such that you can then wake up in the mornings with her as a GF, when at the end of the day it's just a service no different than an LDK or lap dance mileage or an extra. Strippers that FRMOS are open to doing it as an "advanced FemBot" service, but yet somehow in his head it's a "Rosetta Stone" for getting a "real" relationship. It's quite the delusion and it speaks volumes as to his mental state of yearning for a woman's affection.

The other thing in parallel to this is his assumption that NOT engaging in FRMOS means that you just think of a stripper as a FemBot. Again it's an extreme delusion. The bottom line is that if you keep seeing a stripper long enough - whether for just lapdances, LDKs, extras, FS, OTCs, or whatever - you will end up establishing more than just a "FemBot" relationship with her. For example I have been seeing my ATF DS for years now and we have what I call a solid "business friendship". I definitely don't think of her as a FemBot and I actually do care and I do know many things about her personal life. It's really no different than knowing the waiter or owner of a favorite restaurant and seeing them time and again. You end up just getting to know someone due to frequency of visits and spending time together. And yes with my ATF DS we do go into "FemBot" mode during dances that end in LDK with me, but then after we become business friends again and can talk on an interpersonal level. The point being is that san_jose_creep somehow has to view NOT pursuing FRMOS leading to OTC GFE experiences is somehow making the relationship a simple robotic one which is so patently false in my experience. For me personally I have "FemBot" relationships with some new strippers but over time, if I keep seeing her, they eventually develop into business friendships. Again no different than getting to know the owner of a favorite restaurant. Also to me one of the reasons san_jose_creep thinks this way is because when he pursued it with a stripper, she did act like a FemBot to him because he was creepy and she just wanted to go through the motions and get paid so she could get him over with.

a trip down memory lane...