discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"And, despite her protestations to the contrary, I will be a difficult explanation when she finds "the one"."
With my ATATF, it's not just about "the one", it's whenever she has a vaguely serious boyfriend, we have to navigate that, especially given that we tend to visit each other for a few days at a time, every month or two. If she normally sees him a few times a week, or more, how is she going to explain that she's going to be out of touch for 4 days or whatever? And although it's never happened yet, what if she's seen around town with me? Answer: once she starts seeing a guy fairly often, to where he can reasonably expect to see her each night, she pretty early on finds a way to mention "a really close friend of my mom's, he's like an uncle to me and he raised me more than my dad... he comes to visit my mom occasionally and we're spending a few days with him next week". It's been working out nicely, and if she does ever get spotted out with an old guy, everything's already out on the table -- of course, she was out with her "uncle"!
discussion comment
7 years ago
Personally, I think OTC with strippers is simply the best choice. But other options include: escorts (I'd basically find my escorts ANYWHERE but backpage), sensual massage (if you're ok with just a happy ending).
The other option is an arrangement site, on SA. People seem to be having wildly different experiences on it, based mainly on geography and what they're looking for. It feels like you're just looking for a quick lay (escort-style) rather than something more akin to a strip club ATF or a sugar baby -- and there are loads and loads of easy options for quick lays on SA. Upside for you is, often more interesting choices than on backpage, but complete lack of reviews.
discussion comment
7 years ago
A tip? The get the whole damn thing
discussion comment
7 years ago
Ha ha! Just busting your balls Rick999 :) :) :)
discussion comment
7 years ago
^^^ It's not a thread until all 3 of Rick999's personalities check in, each with differing advice & observations
discussion comment
7 years ago
For me, at least, this is significantly about knowing my own weaknesses, and working around them. In my case, I like to lead the conversation, first to feel more in control, and second, if I ask her how much and she quotes $700, I just feel like a dick counter-offering $200.
So, for me, I ALWAYS make the first offer on price. I feel like this usually leads to a reasonable counter-offer, rather than a highball. In reality, a good negotiator can deal with whatever gets thrown at him; I have no illusions about being a good negotiator, especially when dealing with a hot chick in a g-string who I wanna fuck really badly, so I have to do what makes me comfortable.
I also never get sucked into the "I'll give in for $500 this one time". I feel like for the first few OTCs, the sex gets better every time, so never agree to a one-time price that's higher than I could afford on a regular basis.
So I guess, for me:
1. Lead the negotiation by making the first offer
2. Negotiate for the long-term, never agree to a poor negotiation due to one-time thinking
3. My general demeanor is, "hell, you'd be worth 3x that, but unfortunately, what I can afford is $XYZ". That is, my personal negotiation style is never to de-value her, let her feel good about herself, but no compromise on my top-end.
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
Ya, SA is loaded with strippers, and strippers who are manipulative are that way regardless of whether they're in the club or on SA. As I said in a previous post, I've gotten 3 "in a bind, can you send $" requests on SA in the past few months, none from strippers at strip clubs. With a stripper who I know, I'll turn this into a "let's meet in person" conversation; on SA, I just block them and move on.
discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"She started talking about how long a drive she had and she sometimes got a room to stay overnight."
One of the best ATFs I lucked into, was a stripper who had this same problem: super long drive to and from home. In her case, this was compounded by the fact that she was a dayshift girl and so had to be in by 11am or face an escalating level of fines for each passing 30 minutes, but she had problems sleeping so she often didn't get to sleep until the wee hours of the morning and had trouble waking up... which translated to significant fines, every single shift.
Conclusion: we fell into a pattern where, if she worked 2 days in a row, I'd come at the end of her shift on the 1st day, we'd go for dinner and drinks before heading to a hotel that was just around the corner from her club, sex and then sleep, and then I'd kick her awake at 10:30am to drag her ass to the club by 11. She was so thrilled with this that she sometimes didn't even charge me
discussion comment
7 years ago
I dislike valet, less because of the cost than that I don't want a strip club employee in my car. That said, it wouldn't be a deal-killer. And THAT said, I'd also mention that as a general rule, I prefer to Taxi/Lyft/Uber to high end clubs with alcohol, since I like to have the option to get buzzed, and don't want to drive buzzed ... but in my case, I have the advantage that 1. I'm SCing in a big city with tons of Lyft/Uber drivers, and 2. Easy mass transit (train) to and from the city.
discussion comment
7 years ago
Lots of strippers like doing coke w/ customers. The other one I hear a good amount about is molly, although my guess is that that might be with trusted regulars who will take them for the rest of the night, kind of thing.
discussion comment
7 years ago
-->"many TUSCLers think "hey I don't have any trouble getting approached at my club" so there must be something wrong with you."
Paps, definitely true it's easy to forget that not every club is like the club I go to; that said, I don't think I see much "there's something wrong with you" in this thread. That's just one of 15 other possible explanations. But, if getting ignored was something I experienced consistently, across different strip clubs and various shifts, it's something I'd look at. Some guys seem to complain about getting ignored on a near-constant basis; they definitely might have a hand in it.
discussion comment
7 years ago
As a general rule, "in love and in a romantic relationship with a stripper" is something I'd think twice about wishing on my worst enemy. Over a few decades of PLing I've had a handful of "friends with benefits" relationships with strippers, and *that*, I think every PL should experience at least once. "Free" (okay, nothing is really free) sex with a wild and sexy young woman, with some level of affection but without romantic encumbrances, is pretty awesome.
discussion comment
7 years ago
Only all the time. Why would you be "shocked"?!?!
discussion comment
7 years ago
Aside from all the good answers above as far as possible reasons, here's another:
- You're giving off an "I'm cheap and unfriendly" vibe. "I'm here for the beer" vibe. "I'm just gonna watch the stage show and leave without tipping" vibe.
If what you describe happens often to you, at different times of day and at different clubs, it might be you, not them. Or at least in part, you.
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
joc: exactly, very little downside. The one thing I do suggest is that you tell her, right in your opening message, that $10,000/month is beyond your current level ... Let her cut bait immediately (that is, simply not respond); you'll find most girls do respond back, though, often with "I had no idea what High meant when I checked it" silliness.
The other fun one is the girls who have checked "Financial Domination". The most common response I get back when I ask them what that is: "I'm not really sure, I checked it because it sounds interesting".
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
-->"The 5th had a "Lifestyle Expected" of High ($10k per month), so she would never have turned up in one of my searches and I'm surprised she agreed to a one-time date."
Oh, joc13, I remember back 7 months ago when I was as young and naive as you :) :) lol ... On another forum, some of my experienced SD seadaddies, who were helping guide me through SA, told me that I should ignore the Lifestyle expectations (I had previously set my search parameters to Negotiable, Minimal, and Practical). They were 100% right. Very few of the girls are serious about their expectations, and a huge number claim to not even have realized what it meant when they checked "Substantial" or whatever. In my initial contact, I just tell them up front that I'm unable to meet their $10,000/month expectations, or even come close, and the girls don't care. In our next exchange, I typically propose we go per-meet for at least the first month, and offer $300 (sometimes less), and many many Substantial (up to $10,000 per month) and High (more than $10,000/month) girls jump at it.
So, strong advice: completely open up your search parameters, many of the cutest girls will have checked High and Substantial just out of pride, but many will take whatever you offer
discussion comment
7 years ago
Love meeting the girls pre-shift... why go post-shift and end up with sloppy 15ths? $300 for 30 minutes is crazy, though, I personally would suggest we meet at 5, get drinks first, etc.
discussion comment
7 years ago
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Doces300You can run but you will only die tired
All this non-stop drama, unbelievable experiences (none of your SA girls are flakey, and they are all hotter than their pics??? just doesn't happen), all make it sound as if it's all a story constructed to garner attention, alas
discussion comment
7 years ago
I feel like usually, these kinds of conversations are just an excuse for guys with low self-esteem to make themselves feel better by finding a way to put down the girls; or alternatively, to feel like intellectuals because they have the stunning insight that women who take money for sex are technically prostitutes. There's nothing to be gained by pointing this out, it's a word with insulting connotations. It doesn't take a whole lot of self-awareness to understand whether stripper/customer or SB/SD actually fit the definition of prostitution
discussion comment
7 years ago
Ya, it's not that strippers don't have credit -- it's that they have a very poor credit record
discussion comment
7 years ago
As far as skin, I agree with a number of the posts above: some Asians, native Americans, and latin women have the full package: buttery smooth and soft skin, and the smoothest always seems to be a light mocha color. While I find white girls most attractive overall, when it comes to skin, really white skin often has texture and color flaws (for my taste), and so does very dark. Cafe con leche coupled with Asian or Latin ancestry seems to be the ticket.
discussion comment
7 years ago
BJ: that's something some of these guys have read here over and over but just have trouble internalizing. No, she's not missing some huge opportunity just because you have some money burning a hole in your pocket -- a steady regular can be very valuable to her, which is why he may be paying surprisingly little for the amount of time he's spending, it's worth it to her. No, that doesn't mean he's not spending because you don't see them doing dances, no that doesn't mean he's just paying he to talk just because you haven't seen them do dances. Steady regular, who tries to come during slower times, buys food & drinks, and is at least more tolerable than a random customer, that's been the key to affordability for me.
discussion comment
7 years ago
^^^ The thing I'd caution is, just as an onlooker knows fuckall about whether or not the PL is actually paying her (whether or not he's seen them exchange money or do dances), the onlooker knows fuckall about whether he's paying her just to talk. These are just things frustrated guys tell themselves, to make themselves feel better about why the stripper they want doesn't pay them any attention. While I realize that that definitely happens, my guess is that it's a way minority of PLs. Most of those guys talking with those girls for hours are getting ITC or OTC, they wouldn't be dishing out the $ to get her to stay for hours otherwise.
discussion comment
7 years ago
Is there life after death? What caused the big bang? Thermos keeps hot things hot and cold things cold -- how do it know? And perhaps life's biggest mystery of all: why does that stripper hang out with that guy all night?
Of course, that last one, we've discussed ad nauseum until it's so frustrating that I feel like grabbing tuscl and shaking it like it's a baby. But, to recap, the answer is: you (and I, and everyone else here) has no idea how much that PL is spending on that stripper. Just because you don't see them doing dances, that does not mean ANYTHING. He might do all his dances at once at the end of the night. He might have just paid her rent. He might just hand her $1000 at the end of the night without even doing any dances. The one thing you can probably rely on is: this is her job, she's not hanging out with him for her health, there's some amount of money being exchanged that makes her feel like she's being fairly remunerated... even if you don't see a single dance or exchange.
I am a "one stripper for the entire 3-5 hours I'm there" kind of PL, and often easily go 90 minutes between dances, so if you watched us for an hour, you might never see us doing a single dance ... but dance, we do, young skywalker.
discussion comment
7 years ago
Got it!