When discussing terms or price with dancers. Do you prefer to make the initial offer or do you prefer to let her throw a number out. For either what is your initial strategy, do you lowball them or give fair market value?
Just wanted to here others perspectives and strategies
Double that- research. That's what tuscl is so great for.
If you put out the initial offer, you're negotiating with yourself. Know your price and be prepared to walk away (rather, tell her to), because if you don't stick with the price you went in as a bottom line, then you're negotiating with yourself.
I love it when strippers complain about how little they are making on a slow night when they are trying to get you to come in. Provides a good starting point for OTC.
For me, at least, this is significantly about knowing my own weaknesses, and working around them. In my case, I like to lead the conversation, first to feel more in control, and second, if I ask her how much and she quotes $700, I just feel like a dick counter-offering $200.
So, for me, I ALWAYS make the first offer on price. I feel like this usually leads to a reasonable counter-offer, rather than a highball. In reality, a good negotiator can deal with whatever gets thrown at him; I have no illusions about being a good negotiator, especially when dealing with a hot chick in a g-string who I wanna fuck really badly, so I have to do what makes me comfortable.
I also never get sucked into the "I'll give in for $500 this one time". I feel like for the first few OTCs, the sex gets better every time, so never agree to a one-time price that's higher than I could afford on a regular basis.
So I guess, for me:
1. Lead the negotiation by making the first offer
2. Negotiate for the long-term, never agree to a poor negotiation due to one-time thinking
3. My general demeanor is, "hell, you'd be worth 3x that, but unfortunately, what I can afford is $XYZ". That is, my personal negotiation style is never to de-value her, let her feel good about herself, but no compromise on my top-end.
If you really want to have a successful negotiation it needs to be win -win for both or else it won’t work out remember this isn’t the same as buying a car you need be be careful lest she give you subpar service because she feels slighted.
Especially if you ever want a retap. Once the price is set, it will be expected each time. So don’t over pay for sure, but it needs to be at a price point that both feel comfortable and allow you to revisit if you had an enjoyable experience.
Always I make sure that the woman somehow introduces the concept of money first. I never offer money, even if she is seeming to decline.
Offering a woman money is an insult of the most extreme nature. Even if she is used to being approached that way, I'm never going to do that myself.
Once she somehow suggests it, then of course I agree at once. As for the amount, usually she will want me to make the first offer.
I used to start a bit low, to test the waters and try to get a good deal. But sometimes when I was overpaying I got awesome GFE service and an invitation for regular sessions at the girl's home. In the future I will be starting a bit high because probably the reason I am having such a conversation with that girl is that I will soon be spending many nights with her. I also want her to see the money is mistress maintenance, not as a fee for services. Always I want to use whatever available time there is to let the girl get to know me as much as possible, making this first encounter as civilian as possible. And I'll ask her about herself as much as I feel I can without being intrusive.
It’s kinda funny, if I’m at a known extras club, I usually like to loosen up a little and have a drink and chat a bit with a stripper before heading to VIP. I have found if a stripper finds you more “personable” she’s likely to give a more reasonable rate.
So let’s say the going rate in that club is $200 and she quotes me $400, I’ll counter with “usually VIP for me runs $200” and usually they’ll come down or we will meet somewhere in the middle, a few times we don’t agree and it doesn’t happen.
Thanks to TUSCL I almost always know what to expect to pay which really helps.
Yes, know what others pay. Read reviews. I only get to Detroit once every two years or so, but when I do, I read up and maybe even DM a couple recent reviewers. Right now, over $350 is overpaying.
Also, remember this key phrase: "You can take $X or you can get nothing." Let that threat of waking away be there. Also, don't be afraid to walk away. The right club should have multiple options. Say "No" and let her consider that some other girl is going to get the money you have instead of her.
Most people don't seem good at negotiating nor enjoy the process, and I'm in that boat.
LIke Subra, I prefer to state my offer upfront b/c many a dancer will often quote a sky-high price upfront - by stating my offer upfront I feel I avoid the going back-and-forth (at least as much) - but I don't try to low-ball to see if I can get away w/ it, I offer what I feel is a fair-offer and usually stick to that and can usually easily walk-away me being "Mr Variety" and also feeling like I've been there done that - in some cases I may go a bit above my offer while still remaining in my comfortable range of what I think is still fair - but just like if one low-balls a dancer she may not be in the mood to provide a good experience, if I overpay that at times tends to negatively affect my experience as well.
I've never taken the approach to be the first to make an offer, but after reading Subraman's and shailynn's comments, I do understand why it could be beneficial to be the one to lead the negotiation process. I may actually be the one to make the first offer on my next club visit.
So far, only about half of my negotiations with dancers actually required us to meet somewhere in the middle. The most I ever paid was $300, but that was after she led with an offer of $400.
Sometimes it does work out in your favor if you let her tell you her price. I've spoken about my first negotiation several times, which wasn't really a negotiation because she did not quote me a price or ask me for money afterwards. There was another occasion where I asked the dancer what her price was, and she gave me a range of prices, so I picked a price somewhere in the middle, and she was fine with it.
I'm new to OTC but not new to SC negotiation. One thing that works for me is when I tell her, "I don't want to be cheap and I'm not trying to take advantage of you, but I'd like to know what's realistic?" If she shoots me a price that's more than I want to pay, I'll say, "That's a little more than what I have now, but I want to be fair so when I get my money together, I'll get back to you." This causes the bird-in-the-hand/2-in-the-bush thought process to kick in. If your price is worth her time, she'll offer to give you the best time for the amount of money that you have. When I did this, it still turned out to be a complete OTC session. I guess it's similar to buying a new car at the end of the month- If you catch her right around the time she has to pay a bill, you just might get a good deal.
I totally agree with @twentyfive's post. And I think the bottom line is not to negotiate *too* shrewdly. If you negotiate too much, you're really just letting her know that you know that the whole thing is an act. She may write you off as being too smart to fall for her "feminine wiles." Or you may simply be branded as cheap. So I usually don't negotiate the first time. (In a similar vein, I also don't point out all of their endless SS the first time... let's be honest, without the SS, clubbing would be no different than picking up a streetwalker and offering her some heroin in exchange for a BJ, so I let them play their little games at first.)
Anyway, if her prices aren't completely insane, I'll just pay whatever she asks the first time we meet. It's a cost of doing business. But I'll probably negotiate the second time I'm with her. At that point I already know how far she's willing to go, so I'm less likely to get half-assed service.
Nobody likes a pay-cut - if one pays a dancer $X she is usually not happy getting less than $X the next-time while offering the same-service - just like a PL would not be happy getting less-mileage on a subsequent get-together
Outstanding thread - thanks all! Especially liked Subraman's wise comment about recognizing your own weaknesses and working around them. The toughest thing for me to overcome is controlling my praise of the dancer so she doesn't think I'm so desperate to fuck her I'll pay anything. It is absolutely necessary to be willing to walk away, and to make it clear to her that you're willing to walk. As another wise PL has told me before, they may not bite right away, but if you leave them knowing they are leaving $400 or so on the table, the odds are in your favor that she will come around to your figure eventually.
I never negotiate dance prices. As far as OTC is concerned I always let them make the opening offer in case it's lower than what I would have opened with
I prefer to open with roughly 25% below a legitimate fair price. I do this knowing that she will negotiate up to that fair price (or in that vicinity).
The important thing is that nobody feels like they're getting robbed. Well, at least not a lot.
I've also found that many dancers aren't great negotiators. I've had a cute 6/7 open with $600 (not including private room fee). As mentioned previously, it's difficult to counter with $200 without the dancer feeling insulted or foolish.
This is how I negotiate, and it works well for me. She names a price, if I don't like it, I say a different price. If she can't agree with that, I walk and tell them her so. 90% of the time, they commit. Usually because they think I'm stupid and try to high ball me. Other times, I've done spend enough money prior to her request that she changes her mind. Never beg for your price. Always prepare to walk away.
Not getting high-balled is part of the reason I always imply I'm reasonably local when I try to negotiate ITC or OTC. If she thinks I might be repeat business, or thinks I'm familiar with other dancers' prices, she'll usually be more reasonable herself.
When I go to Detroit, for instance, I say I'm from Dearborn or Pontiac or whatever but staying closer to the city tonight for business the next day. It implies I'm close enough that I might come back.
If I say I'm from as far away as I really am, she's gong to think I'm a business traveler, unfamiliar with the market and desperate to get some, and she's going to high-ball me. No thanks.
> Nobody likes a pay-cut - if one pays a dancer $X she is usually not happy getting less than $X the next-time while offering the same-service - just like a PL would not be happy getting less-mileage on a subsequent get-together
Likewise, nobody likes paying over market (except JohnSmith69). Curiosity or the newness factor might be worth double market rate for the PL for the first time. She might rather make market or slightly above it instead of $0 from the same guy after an initial encounter after falling into the no longer new to the PL category (or on the other hand, she might require double to ever breathe the same air as him again).
By the same token, if the PL paid under market when her rent was due and ended up really liking her, he might rather pay up to market instead of insisting on the original price - which might lead to only ever spending time with her again on another rent day on a slow month.
In either case, each side has a better idea of what they're getting into the second or subsequent times, so the risk is lowered.
Knowing your market is important, as the research comment above implies.
I know Hong Kong ranges from $60 low end to $100 high end. So I'm not gonna offer $40, unless I don't give a shit, nor am I going to lead with $100. At Diamond Dolls in Pompano, I know it's $125 low end (3-dance w/BJ) to maybe $200 w/FS. Follies in Atlanta is $152 low end, to a max (for me) of $250 if the chick is particularly awesome. Paradise in COI is $105 room + ~$50 typically for FS. The Rhino however can run double, but the girls are breathtaking. But I'll never consent to the $500+ prices of Cheetah or Tootsies. And so it goes...
In any case, I don't quibble much if I've already decided to go with it because I generally reserve my VIPs for somewhat rare occasions with awesome babes.
For me personally I never go above $250 simply for the fact I've paid under that numerous times and have been taken care of handsomely. So would you rather make some money or no money.
As others have said, know your market. In fact, I think that this is far more important than anything else. If you know where the price range should be, it really doesn't matter who starts first. It keeps you from throwing out or accepting an offer that is far more than what was needed while also ensuring that you don't make an offer that is insultingly low.
With that said, my preference is to have her tell me what she needs. In my experience, girls who are in competitive markets will often start at a reasonable number to begin with and the ones in tighter markets (like NYC or L.A.) who quote a ridiculously high number were never going to leave for reasonable money anyway, so this minimizes the amount of time I have to burn with pointless negotiating.
For a girl in a competitive market who throws out a high number, my responses vary among things like:
"Honestly sweetie, that's a little high for this area, even for a girl as attractive as you."
"I'd really like to take you out, but that's so much higher than my next best option that I just can't get myself to pull the trigger. Is there any way we can bridge the gap here?"
In my experience, 19 times out of 20, a girl in a competitive area who initially high balls will counter with a more reasonable number. In a few instances, For the 1 out of 20, you just have to let her know that you understand and then cut her loose. In a few instances, I've had girls leave and come back later with a more reasonable number, no doubt after they exhausted efforts to earn more elsewhere.
When I am forced to make the first offer, I might low ball a little, but not by much. The idea is to get to a place that everyone is ok with, not to try and nickel and dime the girl over $20-50.
This thread is really chock full of great advice, it should be sticky-noted if founder did such things! Another factor that gets in my head is the knowledge that a particular club or area gets lots of rich customers who have no problem forking over a grand for a dancer to fuck them. For example, during the night shift at Bourbon Street in Phoenix, a reasonably upscale club with premier talent, the parking lot will have multiple Ferraris, Bentleys, and even a Rolls once in awhile. I know rich people can be notoriously cheap, but when we say "know your market" part of that is knowing the PL competition. Sometimes it's tough for me to not feel like my standard offer isn't a lowball, when others would consider it chump change. I guess that's when you really have to know your limit, stick to it, be prepared to walk, and just hope for the best.
32 comments
Latest
key is do your research 1st..
If you put out the initial offer, you're negotiating with yourself. Know your price and be prepared to walk away (rather, tell her to), because if you don't stick with the price you went in as a bottom line, then you're negotiating with yourself.
So, for me, I ALWAYS make the first offer on price. I feel like this usually leads to a reasonable counter-offer, rather than a highball. In reality, a good negotiator can deal with whatever gets thrown at him; I have no illusions about being a good negotiator, especially when dealing with a hot chick in a g-string who I wanna fuck really badly, so I have to do what makes me comfortable.
I also never get sucked into the "I'll give in for $500 this one time". I feel like for the first few OTCs, the sex gets better every time, so never agree to a one-time price that's higher than I could afford on a regular basis.
So I guess, for me:
1. Lead the negotiation by making the first offer
2. Negotiate for the long-term, never agree to a poor negotiation due to one-time thinking
3. My general demeanor is, "hell, you'd be worth 3x that, but unfortunately, what I can afford is $XYZ". That is, my personal negotiation style is never to de-value her, let her feel good about herself, but no compromise on my top-end.
Especially if you ever want a retap. Once the price is set, it will be expected each time. So don’t over pay for sure, but it needs to be at a price point that both feel comfortable and allow you to revisit if you had an enjoyable experience.
Offering a woman money is an insult of the most extreme nature. Even if she is used to being approached that way, I'm never going to do that myself.
Once she somehow suggests it, then of course I agree at once. As for the amount, usually she will want me to make the first offer.
I used to start a bit low, to test the waters and try to get a good deal. But sometimes when I was overpaying I got awesome GFE service and an invitation for regular sessions at the girl's home. In the future I will be starting a bit high because probably the reason I am having such a conversation with that girl is that I will soon be spending many nights with her. I also want her to see the money is mistress maintenance, not as a fee for services. Always I want to use whatever available time there is to let the girl get to know me as much as possible, making this first encounter as civilian as possible. And I'll ask her about herself as much as I feel I can without being intrusive.
SJG
There is one guy who would always play it differently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJEkl5G…
More:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJEkl5G…
So let’s say the going rate in that club is $200 and she quotes me $400, I’ll counter with “usually VIP for me runs $200” and usually they’ll come down or we will meet somewhere in the middle, a few times we don’t agree and it doesn’t happen.
Thanks to TUSCL I almost always know what to expect to pay which really helps.
Also, remember this key phrase: "You can take $X or you can get nothing." Let that threat of waking away be there. Also, don't be afraid to walk away. The right club should have multiple options. Say "No" and let her consider that some other girl is going to get the money you have instead of her.
SJG
Me: "I'll give you $200 and throw in my 10" dick"
SJG
LIke Subra, I prefer to state my offer upfront b/c many a dancer will often quote a sky-high price upfront - by stating my offer upfront I feel I avoid the going back-and-forth (at least as much) - but I don't try to low-ball to see if I can get away w/ it, I offer what I feel is a fair-offer and usually stick to that and can usually easily walk-away me being "Mr Variety" and also feeling like I've been there done that - in some cases I may go a bit above my offer while still remaining in my comfortable range of what I think is still fair - but just like if one low-balls a dancer she may not be in the mood to provide a good experience, if I overpay that at times tends to negatively affect my experience as well.
So far, only about half of my negotiations with dancers actually required us to meet somewhere in the middle. The most I ever paid was $300, but that was after she led with an offer of $400.
Sometimes it does work out in your favor if you let her tell you her price. I've spoken about my first negotiation several times, which wasn't really a negotiation because she did not quote me a price or ask me for money afterwards. There was another occasion where I asked the dancer what her price was, and she gave me a range of prices, so I picked a price somewhere in the middle, and she was fine with it.
Anyway, if her prices aren't completely insane, I'll just pay whatever she asks the first time we meet. It's a cost of doing business. But I'll probably negotiate the second time I'm with her. At that point I already know how far she's willing to go, so I'm less likely to get half-assed service.
I never negotiate dance prices. As far as OTC is concerned I always let them make the opening offer in case it's lower than what I would have opened with
The important thing is that nobody feels like they're getting robbed. Well, at least not a lot.
I've also found that many dancers aren't great negotiators. I've had a cute 6/7 open with $600 (not including private room fee). As mentioned previously, it's difficult to counter with $200 without the dancer feeling insulted or foolish.
My two cents.
When I go to Detroit, for instance, I say I'm from Dearborn or Pontiac or whatever but staying closer to the city tonight for business the next day. It implies I'm close enough that I might come back.
If I say I'm from as far away as I really am, she's gong to think I'm a business traveler, unfamiliar with the market and desperate to get some, and she's going to high-ball me. No thanks.
Likewise, nobody likes paying over market (except JohnSmith69). Curiosity or the newness factor might be worth double market rate for the PL for the first time. She might rather make market or slightly above it instead of $0 from the same guy after an initial encounter after falling into the no longer new to the PL category (or on the other hand, she might require double to ever breathe the same air as him again).
By the same token, if the PL paid under market when her rent was due and ended up really liking her, he might rather pay up to market instead of insisting on the original price - which might lead to only ever spending time with her again on another rent day on a slow month.
In either case, each side has a better idea of what they're getting into the second or subsequent times, so the risk is lowered.
I know Hong Kong ranges from $60 low end to $100 high end. So I'm not gonna offer $40, unless I don't give a shit, nor am I going to lead with $100. At Diamond Dolls in Pompano, I know it's $125 low end (3-dance w/BJ) to maybe $200 w/FS. Follies in Atlanta is $152 low end, to a max (for me) of $250 if the chick is particularly awesome. Paradise in COI is $105 room + ~$50 typically for FS. The Rhino however can run double, but the girls are breathtaking. But I'll never consent to the $500+ prices of Cheetah or Tootsies. And so it goes...
In any case, I don't quibble much if I've already decided to go with it because I generally reserve my VIPs for somewhat rare occasions with awesome babes.
With that said, my preference is to have her tell me what she needs. In my experience, girls who are in competitive markets will often start at a reasonable number to begin with and the ones in tighter markets (like NYC or L.A.) who quote a ridiculously high number were never going to leave for reasonable money anyway, so this minimizes the amount of time I have to burn with pointless negotiating.
For a girl in a competitive market who throws out a high number, my responses vary among things like:
"Honestly sweetie, that's a little high for this area, even for a girl as attractive as you."
"I'd really like to take you out, but that's so much higher than my next best option that I just can't get myself to pull the trigger. Is there any way we can bridge the gap here?"
In my experience, 19 times out of 20, a girl in a competitive area who initially high balls will counter with a more reasonable number. In a few instances, For the 1 out of 20, you just have to let her know that you understand and then cut her loose. In a few instances, I've had girls leave and come back later with a more reasonable number, no doubt after they exhausted efforts to earn more elsewhere.
When I am forced to make the first offer, I might low ball a little, but not by much. The idea is to get to a place that everyone is ok with, not to try and nickel and dime the girl over $20-50.