Meaningful Relationships
OldWhiteGuy
But not too old!
There has been some discussion off and on at the Desire page of the other site about whether or not you can have a meaningful relationship with a stripper. I noted that, over the 45 plus years I've been doing this, I have had many girls with whom I fell in lust, several girls with whom I became friends (some to this day) and three where I crossed the line and fell in love.
One time it was a wonderful relationship and the feeling was mutual. One time it was a manipulative maneuver to play me for financial support. This time...it's great so far!
So...am I the only one that considers her job her JOB and not who she is?
One time it was a wonderful relationship and the feeling was mutual. One time it was a manipulative maneuver to play me for financial support. This time...it's great so far!
So...am I the only one that considers her job her JOB and not who she is?
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64 comments
I take the middle ground on this. Does a woman's choice to strip completely define her as a person. No, certainly not. Dancers have human relationships just like everyone else.
That said, the profession doesn't generally attract women who are prone to good decision making, responsibility, or long-term thinking. So, as a population, they are not the best candidates for meaningful relationships.
And, honestly, PLs aren't the best candidates either...
Is it possible to have a meaningful relationship with a stripper? Sure. They don't all conform to the popular stereotypes.
But I'll contend that it's a lucky hand when they don't.
The one where it wasn't about the money and more about a relationship really was looking for someone to take care of her. Probably thought she found her white knight.
It helps that I'm not too much older than these ladies. The strippers are emotionally fucked up for the most part. And whether they're strippers or regular women emotionally fucked up people are destructive
No. But it's a job which attracts a lifestyle that's a bad match for settled, conventional relationships. Or is it the other way around? Lots of people have jobs like that, but most of them don't involve going to work on a customer's private parts.
And no one will last long if they try to control things which cannot be controlled.
SJG
There is one guy who would always play it differently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJEkl5G…
More:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJEkl5G…
However, extrapolating beyond that statement is where most arguments fall short. It doesn’t imply that she’s a person you’d want to pursue a committed relationship with.
There have been numerous discussions (and probably several articles) discussing why it’s a bad (very very bad) idea to try and have a stripper as a girlfriend. I don’t think I’ve seen any discussions about how good it is having a stripper as a girlfriend.
Wow - *personally* - this is a big "Capt Save-a-Ho" red-flag to me.
To borrow one of your own words, I hate to be "cynical", but getting emotionally wrapped-up w/ a stripper that one feels sorry for b/c of what she's been thru often leads to either getting played big-time and/or her not being as sweet and innocent as what she portrays.
Most of these girls that "have been thru a lot" have a lifetime of baggage that often negatively-affects how they currently live their life, and this is often not obvious on the surface but if one deals w/ them long-enough often times their true-colors show when the shit hits the fan.
Plenty of PLs are taken by dancers making them feel they (dancer) are into them (PL) - but beside the romance hustle, the "I've had a terrible life" hustle often works as well to entrap PLs.
If "she's been thru a lot" that usually means she has a lot of baggage that often affects her personal life in the present and a PL getting involved w/ them b/c they feel sorry for them will often get sucked into the dancer's drama and issues, and often get used b/c they feel they should help a damsel in distress.
To be "cynical" - having sex w/ a stripper and leaving it at that is often as healthy a "relationship" one can have w/ them - history shows that trying to be a "stripper's friend" often leads to deleterious results for the PL b/c many a PL will often get sucked into their drama and also used by the dancer to get thru her ever-present emergencies and shit that constantly seemingly keeps happening to them.
Obviously, nothing is "universal" and one should assume there are always exceptions to the rule; but every PL that has had a deleterious relationship w/ a stripper (which is common) probably also thought that his stripper was the exception to the rule (else he would have not gotten in the mess he did).
IDK this dancer and obviously can't say she is like almost every other dancer; but I'd be careful especially if you somehow see yourself getting involved having to help her w/ personal life issues specifically financial issue; i.e. if you are helping her financially then it may not be what you think it is.
My 3-cents.
Basically, she is the product, and the product is her job. That doesn’t mean all dancers are the same, but it’s always their job to be a product that you want to give money for.
One thing about dating strippers is that they objectify themselves. See Bj99's comments in this thread to see what I mean. It's hard to date someone who has no idea who she is, because she's constantly trying to turn herself into what she thinks you in particular want, or what men in general want, and not just any men, but strip club patrons at that. They spend so much time pretending to be something they're not they lose touch with themselves - assuming they ever knew who they were to begin with.
The problem gets even worse when sex comes into play. I've never said don't give money to a dancer if you want to date her, although I can understand why a dancer might interpret things that way. What I have said is, don't get dances from her. The reason being, the more you pay her for dances, the more motivated she is to disconnect from her feelings and pretend she likes you, so it becomes increasingly difficult for you (or her) to determine what's really going on.
There are always exceptions yeah. I once met a dancer in a club, took her to VIP and then immediately left the club with her, but the visit to VIP wasn't about the money, it was about seeing how we responded to one another. After that one time she never danced for me again.
She still enforces and I still respect her boundaries.
I have been offered the choice of maintaining the current relationship or to see other girls (and satisfy the primal urges) ITC and get together with her OTC.
I'd rather spend the time with her.
She has goals and dreams both personal and professional.
And, despite her protestations to the contrary, I will be a difficult explanation when she finds "the one".
Once you start letting emotions get involved you are fucked, you have to always treat it as a business transaction.
Take a look at yourself, she is not turned on by you, she is lying trying to just pay her rent. I get it, it feels good to have a hot young girl tell you how good looking you are, cuddle with you, listen to your stories.... but when she goes in the locker room the other girls don't ask about your stories, they say how much did you take him for
Take a look on Stripper Web.... do they discuss what to do when you fall in love with a customer and feel bad for taking money from them.... Hell fucking No
They have the hustle hut where they teach young whores how to hustle more money out of you.... they do not fucking care about any meaningful relationship they only care about the money
With my ATATF, it's not just about "the one", it's whenever she has a vaguely serious boyfriend, we have to navigate that, especially given that we tend to visit each other for a few days at a time, every month or two. If she normally sees him a few times a week, or more, how is she going to explain that she's going to be out of touch for 4 days or whatever? And although it's never happened yet, what if she's seen around town with me? Answer: once she starts seeing a guy fairly often, to where he can reasonably expect to see her each night, she pretty early on finds a way to mention "a really close friend of my mom's, he's like an uncle to me and he raised me more than my dad... he comes to visit my mom occasionally and we're spending a few days with him next week". It's been working out nicely, and if she does ever get spotted out with an old guy, everything's already out on the table -- of course, she was out with her "uncle"!
And she doesn't listen to my stories. We have conversations. Sometimes I spend an hour just nodding my head and listening.
This is not about sex but it is about intimacy. We have shared our innermost thoughts, hopes and dreams and fears.
I like where it is.
So, I will keep moving forward because she makes me incredibly happy and if some day I come crashing down, I'll let you know if the ride was worth the fall!
But it is not a relationship based on mutual respect and admiration it is conditional on money eventually spent. It is a business relationship and once there is no business there is no relationship.
I think most guys have a hard time understanding that about strippers they start thinking that it can move from the conditional to the unconditional and you're kidding yourself
As I have said before, there's no fool like an old fool and if I am being played, if she is the greatest actress in the history of the world...the experience has been worth every penny!
Strippers just have a different mindset. I hope for your sake that you found the unicorn.... but I quit believing in that shit years ago.
Here's another thought: "If you look down on women who have sex for money, then why are you paying dancers to have sex with you OTC?" Or if you don't do OTC, then answer this: "If a stripper is forever defined by her decision to take off her clothes and grind on a guy's lap, then why aren't you defined by your decision to walk into a men's club and pay women to take off their clothes and grind on your lap?" Contradiction much?
For every pathetic loser who thinks "once a stripper always a stripper," there's a stripper thinking "once a pathetic loser always a pathetic loser."
Speaking for myself, I would never tell you that you can never believe anything a dancer says. What I have said, repeatedly, is that you can't pay a stripper for dances and expect her to tell you the truth about your relationship. By paying her for dances, you are paying her for affection - regardless of whether she feels affectionate towards you or not. And you cannot, on the one hand, deliberately and knowingly pay someone to lie to you, and on the other hand, expect them to tell you the truth. It's just not gonna happen.
If a dancer has any degree of affection or respect for you, she won't keep taking your money. Women generally become dancers for money. I think we can all agree on that. So if a dancer ever came to me with the offer that your dancer made to you, "I have been offered the choice of maintaining the current relationship or to see other girls (and satisfy the primal urges) ITC and get together with her OTC," I would immediately stop getting dances from her, because the only way I can interpret that statement is that she doesn't feel comfortable lying to you anymore.
Yes, you can and you have chosen to continue the current relationship as is, but I feel you're shooting yourself in the foot by doing so, and the longer it goes on the less respect she'll have for you.
The thing about relationships is that they're always changing. Relationships are organic, if they're not growing then they're dying, but one thing they don't ever do is stay the same. So if you ever do have a "relationship" that never changes, that's a dead giveaway it's not really a relationship - it's a business arrangement, or a legal obligation, or perhaps some mutually beneficial transaction - but it's not a relationship.
"So what some of you are saying is that anything she says to me is a lie because she is a stripper? "
No, it is "Assume anything she says to you is a lie because she is a stripper."
In the club I believe everything they tell me. It helps with the fantasy. Once I leave, I believe nothing unless I have supporting evidence. Even then I take it with a healthy dose of skepticism and consider how much my desire for it to be true is influencing me.
You are right about the outcry if someone said black have a different mindset, and the outcry would be justifiable. People are not born strippers.... they choose that life. They choose to take off their clothes, rub their bodies all over you, suck you and fuck you for money. The more money they can get the better for them. Some not all play mind games as well. There are very few that will turn down cash because they don't feel they earned it or they don't want to take advantage of you. You are naive to believe otherwise
And I will point out again, to you and the others with noticeably upturned noses, that no one is putting a gun to your head, forcing you into a strip club, and forcing you to hand over money to a stripper. Those are all your choices. So how about turning off the superiority complex when you have nothing to feel superior about?
you know Mr. 25% Claus, 75% Scrooge, being called an idiot by you just tells me I'm doing something right. I don't know what drugs you're on, but I never said anything about "giving back cash." i will however refer you to OWG, whose dancer friend is offering to leave money on the table by giving their ITC CR sessions to another dancer. since you don't like my explanation, what is yours? and we'll let OWG decide which makes more sense to him
also, your prejudices and false beliefs don't Trump my reality. given your obvious intelligence and winning personality, I have no trouble believing that no dancer would ever give you the time of day unless you had cash in hand, but I have spent lots of time OTC with lots of dancers throughout my life and it never cost me anything more than a civilian date would have cost.
so merry christmas to you too
There was an old proverb written just for you.
“It is better to keep your thoughts to yourself and be thought a fool, then to publish them and remove all doubt “
Now go suck a dick you retarded faggot. If it wasn't for strip clubs that's the only action you would ever get.
The reason I took this discussion here is because the other site is overloaded with these kinds of attacks.
Obviously Daddilac has one point of view because he was burned in a relationship he thought was real. If it eases your mind, Dadillac, I am not looking at this as a "Happily ever after Fairy Tale". I'm looking at it as a friendship that has grown and evolved into something very special to me and to her. It is a relationship that isn't costing me a fortune.
Anon has expressed thoughts close to mine. A stripper becomes a stripper for many different reasons. And, being a stripper doesn't disqualify her from being a genuine human being.
He brought Blacks into the discussion because you cannot lump ALL of ANYTHING into a certain behavior. I know waitresses, teachers and lawyers that have lied to men to get what they want. That have traded sex for trips, gifts... And, I know strippers that have done it as well.
Let's all leave each other with a final thought...we all have our opinion based on our own experiences. No one has the truth!
"People are always talking to ya about truth. Everybody always knows what the truth is, like it was toilet paper or something, and they got a supply in the closet. But what you learn, as you get older, is there ain't no truth. All there is is bullshit, pardon my vulgarity here. Layers of it. One layer of bullshit on top of another. And what you do in life like when you get older is, you pick the layer of bullshit that you prefer and that's your bullshit, so to speak. "
Merry Christmas.
If anything I would say dancers are more honest than the average woman. With a dancer you generally know what you are going to get. You pay her money, she provides a GFE, takes off her clothes for you, possibly even provides extras; whereas with a civilian girl, you might spend $200 for tickets to a show and then go home with blue balls, while she goes home and fucks her boss for a promotion.
Do strippers sometimes lie? Well, I guess that depends upon your level of stupid, doesn't it? I think it's safe to say most guys who walk into a strip club are looking for a fantasy. Dancers know this and they try to cater to it. That doesn't make them liars, it makes them actresses. You'd have to be a special kind of stupid to walk into a strip club and think that a girl you're paying hundreds of dollars per hour for entertainment loves you. But apparently that's a common delusion around here, how else to explain the frequency with with PLs talk about dancers "lying" to them as if they've just discovered the first law of thermodynamics.
Another way to look at this is as a form of projection. Pathetic losers don't want to admit how pathetic they are for paying for sex, so they place all the blame for their actions upon the dancers, who of course are these devious, irresponsible and irresistible sirens who are somehow luring these otherwise virtous men to their dooms in strip clubs. They couldn't possibly be recently divorced women with no credit who suddenly need to buy cars, or college girls from poor families who can't pay tuition, or barely legal teenage runaways who are just trying to survive.
You're also a special form of stupid if the term "your mileage may vary" has to be explained to you. When I'm talking about my experiences in a strip club, I'm not necessarily implying anything about how common they are. But since the issue has been raised, I'll admit that most dancers probably view most patrons as ATMs, just as most patrons view most dancers as sex dolls, so my experiences are probably pretty uncommon if not rare.
When I walk into a strip club, I'm never looking for a fantasy. Dancers usually notice this right away and will often comment on it. I don't engage in projection with dancers. I don't look down on them. I'm not hostile towards them. I come across I think as a safe, sincere and respectful person. I look 20 years younger than I really am. I tip well. And I have skill sets that most women find interesting and useful. All these things make me stand out. Considering the way most guys behave in strip clubs, I really stand out. And as a result, on many occasions I have gotten to know dancers as the women they are, not the performers they pretend to be. This has been my experience.
Perhaps this is the type of experience OWG is describing as well.
Desire has been my spot since it opened and although I occasionally sample the other venues I am A REGULAR at Desire. Several of the girls and a couple of the house moms have asked me about my relationship. At first they wondered how we could spend hours together because she is so quiet. My response was, Not with me. Then mentioned that they noticed that my friend has "come out of her shell" and is much more confident. Some have told me that she is absolutely giddy when she gets my text confirming a visit. Even Maggie, who usually frowns on the OTC stuff has mentioned that she's rarely seen anything like our relationship.
Again, I appreciate everyone's input but rather than turning this into a catfight, enjoy the holidays and let's move on.