discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"I’m going to be pissed if I find out it only me and like five other people."
You think there's FIVE other people?? I love your hopeless optimism! I am fairly convinced that it's just me, nicespice, juice, and san_jose_guy
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"Maybe you can offer cash if she sends explicit photos of herself"
Ya, I'd totally pay for that, since there is no place in the world where I can find a zillion pics of smoking hot naked girls for free, so definitely it's worth it to pay for pics of a naked girl :)
discussion comment
6 years ago
^^^ OP has one of those posts that's so obvious, I automatically assume it's a troll account, he picked something that he knew would get us all riled, and then there will be followups "okay, I paid her $150 one last time, and then ...". On the other hand, I could imagine someone relatively starting out in their SC career falling for this, she establishes a relationship and then tries to tickle his inner white knight. I dunno
discussion comment
6 years ago
LOL. I can't imagine anyone being so naive; you're sending her money because... she asks for it?? On the off chance anyone is really confused about this -- no, don' send her money just for asking. If you send it, it shows her you're a sucker, and opens the door for her to do it more. Also, if you ever see any variation of the phrase, "you have to send me $ first to show me you're serious", run.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Me: https://pics.me.me/me-before-i-nut-me-after-i-nut-weird-porn-36314682.png
discussion comment
6 years ago
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Mr_PUA_Guy50The guy in the fancy suit picking up your ATF at the club
As a PUA professional, I am shocked and disappointed you forgot the peacocking. PUAs are all about the peacocking. Imagine how the bitches will come running if you dress like the guy in the middle http://i.imgur.com/7LtjEB3.jpg I almost feel sorry for those strippers, they stand no chance
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"I think the redditt sugar forum is just like SA and the real world where the SB's (or want to be SB's) outnumber the SD's greatly. It's also long been said that the number of people reading an internet forum is 10x the number of regular contributors. I think the women who consistently contribute to redditt's sugar lifestyle group are probably among the most successful at it"
Agree, it is a high quality forum with excellent information. I consider most of the tumblrs specious
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"But men *do* pay these allowances."
For sure. Just very few (at least as a % of total number of SDs).
And yes, absolutely agree that one of the many advantages of both sugaring and OTC over escorts, is because by-the-hour pricing is not affordable if you want to spend a lot of hours. I've been saying that for years -- total price for OTC might (sometimes) be more expensive than an escort, but considering my ATFs often spend many hours (and even overnights) for that price, rate-wise it can be an order of magnitude less expensive. Sugaring exactly the same way.
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"Isn't reddit mostly millennials or guys under 36?"
In general, I imagine. Hell, some subs seem to be all jr highschoolers lol. But completely different with the sugar sub, seems about split between SBs (many of whom are very experienced) and typical-aged SDs (that is, 40s, 50s, 60s, very few younger men). Or, in other words, the sub and places like letstalksugar are much better places to get info than articles, or "I have a friend who says". I peek in on it every few weeks, it reflects accurately a lot of my first-hand experiences, too, not that I have a ton having just done this a few years, but that seems to be a few years longer than many of the people giving opinions (hey, it's tuscl lol).
-->"The Venn diagram of those guys has to be a very small intersection."
Ya, agree. Not that it doesn't happen, but just like the "no sex" arrangements that you always read about in articles, the $10k/month club is not very big
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"I think that might be a sugaring relationship for guys with 9 figures net worth. Paying $10K/mo to keep up her lifestyle, spa, paying for boob job surgeries, plastic surgery, a life of leisure for her. I don't think it's normal because there isn't a lot of guys with that net worth running around. "
on the reddit sub, they call a SD who pays even $5k/month a unicorn -- at the very least, $5k represents an upper tier of allowance. Obviously, there are guys out there paying $10k+, but very very few. the vast majority of sugaring goes on at well under $5k, it appears
discussion comment
6 years ago
That narrow definition of traditional doesn't match what's actually going on. To the extent it's worth getting philosophical, I think escorting is substantially about the sex-for-money transaction. What makes sugaring different is that the sex for money transaction may be what frames it, but experiences and emotional connection are important (to the point where they can make or break an arrangement where the sex-for-money part was acceptable). Some SBs and SDs want more or less experiences and emotional connection, but this feels like the main difference, the importance of other factors beyond sex-for-money -- and it can manifest itself in much different ways than described above as "traditional".
Obviously, as I said before, the way B.Ho used SA, and juice pretended to use SA, are a completely different model, that I don't consider sugaring, but just "getting escort-like transactions on SA"
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"But the real question of the day is, with these girls, calling themselves professional sugar babies, aren't they really sex workers ?"
They are, and they know it and acknowledge it. The only place where there's a belief that SBs are in denial over this, is in non-arrangement forums, where it's just something guys like to believe.
*** I should say, I'm sure there are newbie SBs who are in denial over this -- in fact, this suspension of disbelief is what allows them to take that step into sugaring in the first place. But IME, they all eventually get there
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"In a traditional sd/sb arrangement, the girl is not a professional sex worker. So you can find girls who are less mechanical."
So, to pick a nit -- by definition, an SB is a professional sex worker. But the spirit of what you're saying stands... differences with other professional sex workers (these things don't apply to the more escort-like girls B.Ho is finding and juice is pretending to find on SA):
1. Unlike an AMP, escort, stripper in an extras club, she won't be fucking 4 other guys per day (she may, of course, have other SDs and be fucking guys in her personal life)
2. She's a woman who would often would never have chosen professional sex work, if not for the existence of arrangements. This impacts me less since I tend to drift towards wild party girls anyway (not always, but often), but for guys preferring smart college girls, etc., they have options they'd never have.
3. She hand picks her SD, and often will reject many before picking one. On the reddit sub, the standard advice experienced SBs give to new SBs is "expect to spend weeks or months finding a good SD, don't get frustrated if it takes that long".
Arrangements are all over the map, from relatively disconnected "hotel-only" arrangements, to arrangements where there's lots of more engagement. The fact is, the way I've treated my ATFs -- long (sometimes overnight) OTCs, social media entanglement, frequent texting, etc. -- is somewhat indistinguishable to me from the arrangements I've found.
I expect none of this to be appealing to guys who don't even like OTC, or want a more escort-like all-business completely-transactional experience.
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"I only know it based off what I've read online. I haven't met any real life sugar babies/daddies"
Ah, ok ... I dunno, when I don't understand something, I ask what it's like, I don't ask contrived questions about made-up assertions. But that's just me. Anyway, easy then - the reason you're confused about it is because you don't understand it. Learning about sugaring by reading online articles is like learning about strip clubbing by reading those "how to behave in an strip club" articles in Cosmo.
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"What does a sugar daddy really get out of sugaring someone? I know sex is typically involved, but aside from that what else would you get? Doesn't it ever bother you knowing the girl is playing pretend just so she can get a paycheck from you every month? I can't imagine paying thousands every month just for that."
From what I can tell, much of what you think you know about sugaring is wrong. Who told you it's thousands a month? It can be, but not everyone is paying that. Why, for example, do you think it's any more expensive than typical great OTC? And, in that case, why aren't you questioning OTC?
It's just another fun option in the sex industry.
discussion comment
6 years ago
I don't think this is all "stereotypes". I'd guess there's a huge extent to which it's a matter of strippers trying to hustle different types of customers, and learning which types of guys do or don't like her. A skinny goth girl doesn't need to stereotype to have learned from experience that the group of (pick your group here) isn't going to buy dances from her, just like the zillion other times she tried to sell dances to that group
discussion comment
6 years ago
She put your boner in her mouth. Fuck yes you should tip her. At the very least, it gives her encouragement to ever do it again... why would should repeat, now?
discussion comment
6 years ago
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JAprufrockDid desertscrub's mom suck you dry, too?
It really depends on the situation. As others have pointed out, I've been out with my daughter; I haven't noticed any speculative looks, but not sure I'd notice them in any case.
I rarely notice looks with an SB or OTC either, although number of looks goes up drastically if:
- there are public displays of affection. I keep these to a minimum, unless we're in a pretty dark corner of a bar, etc.
- she is dressed to kill, ultra sexy.
When we go out to party at night, my ATATF usually dresses for maximum sexiness; she draws attention just by being there and her ability to command a room. I notice looks when she's dressed like that, I don't think anyone will assume "dad and daughter". We still tend not to engage in any PDAs, but her dress and body language by itself is enough.
discussion comment
6 years ago
Agree "vagueness is its hallmark". Young people seem to usually use it to mean sex, but perhaps not always. The vagueness is exactly the thing strippers love.
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"I pay nothing for OTC. We hang out in the real world and it is not sexual OTC. We pretty much hang out as friends. "
Strippers are unreliable for OTC even when they're getting paid. I usually don't even use the term "OTC" when we're talking about some platonic hanging-out time. Yes, I imagine the flake rate for that is 10x worse; or rather, not "flake", but her consciously managing you this way -- agreeing to seeing you to "hang out as friends", probably to keep you spending in the club, and then finding an excuse to bail
I have many times hung out drinking or eating with an ATF of mine, but always immediately before or after her shift ... kind of some bonus time for being a good regular
discussion comment
6 years ago
-->"Now if you set up an appointment to see your ATF that night and then end up blowing her off for another dancer then that's another story entirely.."
Agree. The sanctity of the Appointment shall not be infringed. I don't care if you cheat on your wife and put your family at risk. But break the Appointment, and I shall judge ye
discussion comment
6 years ago
I've found that being transparent and open keeps me insulated from most drama. What that translates to is, as rick said, don't "play it." I mean, if you want to start psychological warfare, by all means tell her you were trying to get her to up her game, if you're the type that thinks it's fun to deal with any ensuing drama. And, like Rick, I don't get how you can have an ATF whose menu is more limited than what you want. I act like I did nothing wrong -- which I did not. In fact, if you avoided your ATF that night, because you felt guilty, she noticed it, and that's her cue to go on the offensive. I would not have hid from her that night, when she saw me, big smile, I missed you tonight but want to catch you next time! (if that's what you want to do)
discussion comment
6 years ago
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ei8ht_BallStill don't know what I'm doing here . . .
-->"When I have brought it up, around 70 percent said no the first time I asked. Those who do eventually agree, I didn't bring it up again for a few visits then started hinting"
I'm realizing I can't really estimate the percentages with any real accuracy, but ignoring the exact percentage, a pretty good percentage of strippers have told me -- well, not usually "no", but they needed to think about it, get more comfortable, etc -- and it's then common that a pretty good percentage of those eventually come to a yes within a few visits. This goes directly against the standard narrative here -- that she'll either say yes (probably to everyone who asks) immediately, and any other answer always means she's stringing you along -- but this hasn't just been one or two girls, it's a decent percentage over the years who switch a non-committal answer to a yes.
discussion comment
6 years ago
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Cashman1234He/Him - He’s a filthy pig. That’s him in VIP with another whore.
The ever-building excited feeling on the ride up, and subsequent door open, are definitely feelings to be savored. Maybe not as exciting as when your ATF walks over to you, or the new girl you've been wanting a dance with walks over, but still pretty awesome
discussion comment
6 years ago
Happy to play into it for good karma -- good travels man! 0% chance juice is leaving, not he's not leaving he just wants a little attention.